Wilder - Get Rid Now, or After Last Game

[georgebernardshaw]

We were within a whisker of promotion to the PL less than twelve months ago. Wilder's been in management for 25 years and has had far more successes than failures.

To suggest that he's suddenly become a shit manager and the 'game has overtaken him' based on this season alone seems a bit of a stretch - especially given the position we were in when he was appointed.

Spot on there…

 

[Shadota]

I’d happy have Scott Parker as manager when he leaves Burnley soon. He has a proven track record in this division, and much more reliable than Wilder will ever be.

Parker's successes in this division have come as a result of having an absolutely disgusting squad for this level.

At Fulham, he had a squad featuring Aleksander Mitrovic, Ivan Cavaleiro, Bobby Reid, Tom Cairney, Anthony Knockaert, and somehow only managed to get promoted through the playoffs. He then bolstered that squad for the PL with the likes of Ademola Lookman and Ruben Loftus-Cheek, and finished 18th and 11 points from safety. Sacked at the end of that season, replaced by Marco Silva, who proved the real strength of that squad the next season in the Championship - league champions, 90 points, 106 goals scored. They've obviously gone on and become an established PL side under him.

Joined Bournemouth for 21/22 - dragged them over the line for automatic promotion, with a squad featuring Lloyd Kelly (now at Juventus), Jefferson Lerma, Philip Billing, Ryan Christie and Lewis Cook among others. Made a few signings in the summer, including Marcos Senesi and Marcus Tavernier, threw a tantrum in front of the media about not being able to sign enough players after getting slapped 9-0 at Liverpool, and was gone before the end of August. Brought in Gary O'Neil, who led them to safety and a 15th placed finish, replaced him with Andoni Iraola in summer 2023, and never looked back.

And at Burnley, he finished 2nd on goal difference, despite only conceding 16 goals in 46 games (they scored 69 goals that season; for context, Norwich City finished 13th and scored more than that. And when Burnley won the league under Kompany in 22/23, they scored 87 goals). That team was largely reliant on James Trafford, Maxime Estevé and CJ Egan-Riley as an outrageous defensive base. And I'll concede here that Parker was extremely hard done by in that Egan-Riley didn't sign a new deal and left for Marseille on a free, and Trafford went back to Man City. No way to replace two-thirds of the best defence in Europe as they were that season. So it's of no real surprise that they've struggled this season, and are already relegated with multiple games to spare. A significantly weakened spine, and a manager with a very poor track record in the PL.

Considering that our squad isn't anywhere the strength of the 3 teams Parker has managed in the Championship, and he won't have significant funds to spend, I doubt hiring him would work out very well.

 

[YES Blade]

We were within a whisker of promotion to the PL less than twelve months ago. Wilder's been in management for 25 years and has had far more successes than failures.

To suggest that he's suddenly become a shit manager and the 'game has overtaken him' based on this season alone seems a bit of a stretch - especially given the position we were in when he was appointed.

I doubt there are many fans that think he’s a shit manager. I think he’s going to be pretty average from now on, midtable, 5 out of 10 stuff, boring to watch etc.

If after sacking Selles we’d appointed a manager that had no history with us and he achieved the exact same results as Wilder then I’d happily give him all of next season. But with Wilder I feel like I’ve seen this before and know how it’s going to end.

Wilder has been here off and on for the last ten years. I can’t see any possibility of him reviving the former glories, so it just feels stale and time to move on. I desperately want something to feel optimistic about for next season!

 

[Shadota]

I doubt there are many fans that think he’s a shit manager. I think he’s going to be pretty average from now on, midtable, 5 out of 10 stuff, boring to watch etc.

This is my sentiment exactly. He's not a bad manager - if he stays long-term I think we do enough to comfortably stay in the Championship. But I don't think we'll see promotion challenges either. Considering the expansion of the playoffs to include 8th place, we might flirt with those lower positions, but that would be the best we'll get in my opinion.

 

[Old Programme seller]

I’d happy have Scott Parker as manager when he leaves Burnley soon. He has a proven track record in this division, and much more reliable than Wilder will ever be.

His wages would be a concern to us now plus the fact we have no real money to spend on transfers but as a manager yes I agree I’d take him

 

[Nick Jansky]

So are you suggesting he shouldn't have started at the bottom then?

As a predominantly lower league player, he didn't have the luxury of being dropped into a big club, ala Gerrard, Lampard or Rooney. It would seem that you give no credit for him learning his trade in the lower leagues.

I do give him credit for learning his trade in non league football. And he was a non league manager for a lot of years before any league club was prepared to take a chance on him. He’s a highly experienced manager, but he isn’t hugely experienced as a league manager, especially for his age, and he isn’t particularly experienced as a Championship manager. How many seasons has he managed in the Championship in total? Less than 4 complete seasons with us, I think? And for two of those he had one of the highest budgets in the division. Didn’t do a great job at Boro, but I give him a free pass for Watford as he inherited a shitshow.

 

[Kenworthy’s Tash]

Not true. There's not a massive split. There's a vocal online minority who want shut of Wilder, and will want shut of every manager who doesn't deliver instant success. Unfortunately it's part of today's culture. People get bored easily and want change for change's sake. No promotion? Change the manager, he's shit.

If there was indeed a massive split, we would be hearing anti-Wilder songs from the terraces. We aren't.

Of course there is a lot of criticism, which is often deserved. But to imply that half of our fanbase support sacking Wilder this summer is way off the mark. It's probably less than 10%.

Jesus, what a load of tosh.

Firstly, please show me the detail of your in depth polling that suggests you know that it’s a vocal online minority, I’ll tell you now, everyone who sits around us think he’s done. “Less than 10%” is a laughable statement to make. The reason there are no chants is because fans have gone from angry to apathetic, which is even worse.

No one doesn’t argue that he did very well in his first stint but since becoming billy big billocks and flouncing off he has:-

1. Manage to do nothing with a decent Boro squad, a good budget and managed to fall out with probably the best chairman to work for in the Champ. Boro fans were glad when he was fired.

2. Did absolutely nothing at Watford, again, a team with some decent quality.

3. Turned in turgid, lucky performances that were achieved due to one or two outstanding players. Decided to have a mental breakdown which then transmitted through to the players resulting in us choking and blowing promotion. Rightly sacked.

4. Returned again, only because of an awful manager pick. Had 40 games and a Jan transfer window and did f-all.

Failure after failure. Ability to spot a player - GONE, ability to motivate - GONE, ability to coach and make tactical changes - GONE.

It really is about time to remind Blades it isn’t 2017 anymore

 

[LBA_Blade]

Parker's successes in this division have come as a result of having an absolutely disgusting squad for this level.

At Fulham, he had a squad featuring Aleksander Mitrovic, Ivan Cavaleiro, Bobby Reid, Tom Cairney, Anthony Knockaert, and somehow only managed to get promoted through the playoffs. He then bolstered that squad for the PL with the likes of Ademola Lookman and Ruben Loftus-Cheek, and finished 18th and 11 points from safety. Sacked at the end of that season, replaced by Marco Silva, who proved the real strength of that squad the next season in the Championship - league champions, 90 points, 106 goals scored. They've obviously gone on and become an established PL side under him.

Joined Bournemouth for 21/22 - dragged them over the line for automatic promotion, with a squad featuring Lloyd Kelly (now at Juventus), Jefferson Lerma, Philip Billing, Ryan Christie and Lewis Cook among others. Made a few signings in the summer, including Marcos Senesi and Marcus Tavernier, threw a tantrum in front of the media about not being able to sign enough players after getting slapped 9-0 at Liverpool, and was gone before the end of August. Brought in Gary O'Neil, who led them to safety and a 15th placed finish, replaced him with Andoni Iraola in summer 2023, and never looked back.

And at Burnley, he finished 2nd on goal difference, despite only conceding 16 goals in 46 games (they scored 69 goals that season; for context, Norwich City finished 13th and scored more than that. And when Burnley won the league under Kompany in 22/23, they scored 87 goals). That team was largely reliant on James Trafford, Maxime Estevé and CJ Egan-Riley as an outrageous defensive base. And I'll concede here that Parker was extremely hard done by in that Egan-Riley didn't sign a new deal and left for Marseille on a free, and Trafford went back to Man City. No way to replace two-thirds of the best defence in Europe as they were that season. So it's of no real surprise that they've struggled this season, and are already relegated with multiple games to spare. A significantly weakened spine, and a manager with a very poor track record in the PL.

Considering that our squad isn't anywhere the strength of the 3 teams Parker has managed in the Championship, and he won't have significant funds to spend, I doubt hiring him would work out very well.

Agreed with all 3 of Parker's achievements mentioned, the thing he managed to do over us last season with Burnley was control games with the defence. We know that is an area that we are looking at improving come the summer transfer window, a team built on solid foundations can't be a bad thing. Apart from the recent 3 games where we have conceded 3 goals we have only had the away games against Ipswich and Wrexham where everything went mental on the goals conceded front. "Parker Ball" can be boring to watch according to some that were watching it but it can't of been that boring being promoted under it.

The difference between us and Burnley however is on the board level they have a Director of Football Development (Paul Jenkins) and they have a technical committee (new one on me) for strategy decisions. Paul Jenkins is there to Oversee football strategy, recruitment, and academy development (Category 1). Even for someone as "simple" as Scott Parker, I think he would be expecting to be coming into a club with some form of structure that leads to long term strategy. Both Fulham and Bournemouth have Directors of Football/Technical Directors too so does Brugge where he went for a season before Burnley meaning every club he has been at since going into management he hasn't had to deal with strategy, recruitment, and academy development. We have to think is it time to change our structure at the club if we are able to bring in future younger coaches of the next generation even if we are looking post Wilder. I am not a fan of Wilder but the advantage to him is he cracks on with stuff;

 

[YES Blade]

I do give him credit for learning his trade in non league football. And he was a non league manager for a lot of years before any league club was prepared to take a chance on him. He’s a highly experienced manager, but he isn’t hugely experienced as a league manager, especially for his age, and he isn’t particularly experienced as a Championship manager. How many seasons has he managed in the Championship in total? Less than 4 complete seasons with us, I think? And for two of those he had one of the highest budgets in the division. Didn’t do a great job at Boro, but I give him a free pass for Watford as he inherited a shitshow.

You make a good point about limited Championship experience and a mixed record. It’s leads me to ask the question - if Wilder left United in the summer, where would his next job be?

I reckon he’d end up in League One, so if the rest of the Championship wouldn’t employ him, why would we want him as our manager?

 

[Dkc]

Although Wilder doesn't come on here I'm sure plenty of players and staff are tempted to take a look. Doubt it does much for team morale to see so much vitriol directed at their boss.

Wilder is our manager and he'll be here next season - no matter what people say. Get over it and support the team. He's not above criticism but he's given most of us our best times as Blades.

Trying to drum up support to hound him out can only be detrimental to the club.

 

[KMC-1889]

You make a good point about limited Championship experience and a mixed record. It’s leads me to ask the question - if Wilder left United in the summer, where would his next job be?

I reckon he’d end up in League One, so if the rest of the Championship wouldn’t employ him, why would we want him as our manager?

Widely reported he went for a few jobs, namely Leicester and Rangers, and was passed over for both.

His career as manager is limited as the modern model of clubs is starting to permeate down to lg1 now (see Lincoln). United are more important to wilder than wilder is to United.

 

[54yrblade]

Widely reported he went for a few jobs, namely Leicester and Rangers, and was passed over for both.

His career as manager is limited as the modern model of clubs is starting to permeate down to lg1 now (see Lincoln). United are more important to wilder than wilder is to United.

100% correct. He needs the Blades job more than we need him.

 

[YES Blade]

Although Wilder doesn't come on here I'm sure plenty of players and staff are tempted to take a look. Doubt it does much for team morale to see so much vitriol directed at their boss.

Wilder is our manager and he'll be here next season - no matter what people say. Get over it and support the team. He's not above criticism but he's given most of us our best times as Blades.

Trying to drum up support to hound him out can only be detrimental to the club.

All about opinions, I’d counter your point by saying that trying to drum up support for a manager that isn’t going to take the club forward can only be detrimental to the club.

 

[Dkc]

All about opinions, I’d counter your point by saying that trying to drum up support for a manager that isn’t going to take the club forward can only be detrimental to the club.

In other circumstances I'd agree.

But he IS going to be our manager next season, regardless of the abuse he gets on a forum. Given that fact, shouldn't we be backing him as opposed to undermining him and slagging him off? If anyone dislikes Wilder that much, simply don't go to games. He won't be here forever. But he will be here next season.

Team spirit, support and togetherness win us games. Moaning and abusing the manager never helps the team.

 

[YES Blade]

In other circumstances I'd agree.

But he IS going to be our manager next season, regardless of the abuse he gets on a forum. Given that fact, shouldn't we be backing him as opposed to undermining him and slagging him off? If anyone dislikes Wilder that much, simply don't go to games. He won't be here forever. But he will be here next season.

Team spirit, support and togetherness win us games. Moaning and abusing the manager never helps the team.

Am I not allowed to slag off the likes of Chong and McGuinness either? They’re both under contract and no club will be stupid enough to take them off our hands. So they’re both going to be here next season.

If we’re not allowed to question Wilder’s ability and undermine him, that should surely extend to our underperforming players? Maybe that’s all they need, a bit of support and they’ll turn into top Championship players?

 

[Dkc]

Am I not allowed to slag off the likes of Chong and McGuinness either? They’re both under contract and no club will be stupid enough to take them off our hands. So they’re both going to be here next season.

If we’re not allowed to question Wilder’s ability and undermine him, that should surely extend to our underperforming players? Maybe that’s all they need, a bit of support and they’ll turn into top Championship players?

Of course it's "allowed". I've said numerous times that Wilder isn't beyond criticism. I think he's made poor team selections and tactical errors this season. I was fuming after Oxford and Plymouth last season. I probably posted to that effect. And of course we can criticise players if they perform badly. It's part of being a fan.

What I don't like is people calling for him to be sacked right now, while offering no plan going forward apart from "get someone else in". He isn't going to be sacked this summer, and calling for his sacking is harmful to team morale. It would be much better if fans got behind the team and kept their powder dry until we see where we are when his contract is up next year.

 

[luffenhamblade]

100% correct. He needs the Blades job more than we need him.

Down Leicester way they rather wish they had appointed him. Taking a gamble hasn’t worked for them.

 

[Shadota]

Trying to drum up support to hound him out can only be detrimental to the club

Who is trying to drum up support for this? I haven't seen any and I'm on here pretty much every day in some capacity.

There's certainly people on here (myself included) who believe we would be better off were Wilder to depart. But that doesn't mean we're planning a new shoes off in the car park or anything.

 

[YES Blade]

Of course it's "allowed". I've said numerous times that Wilder isn't beyond criticism. I think he's made poor team selections and tactical errors this season. I was fuming after Oxford and Plymouth last season. I probably posted to that effect. And of course we can criticise players if they perform badly. It's part of being a fan.

What I don't like is people calling for him to be sacked right now, while offering no plan going forward apart from "get someone else in". He isn't going to be sacked this summer, and calling for his sacking is harmful to team morale. It would be much better if fans got behind the team and kept their powder dry until we see where we are when his contract is up next year.

Why do I need to give future plans to justify my opinion that Wilder should go? I have no control over what happens during Wilder’s current stint as manager or after he leaves. That’s the job of the owners.

I think Wilder will unfortunately still be manager next season. I’m sorry but I’m not going to stop posting negative views because it’s my opinion and that’s what this place is for.

It’s ridiculous to suggest fans should get behind the team and keep their powder dry until the manager’s contract is up. No other managers are given that treatment, what makes Wilder a special case?

 

[Danetheblade]

Of course it's "allowed". I've said numerous times that Wilder isn't beyond criticism. I think he's made poor team selections and tactical errors this season. I was fuming after Oxford and Plymouth last season. I probably posted to that effect. And of course we can criticise players if they perform badly. It's part of being a fan.

What I don't like is people calling for him to be sacked right now, while offering no plan going forward apart from "get someone else in". He isn't going to be sacked this summer, and calling for his sacking is harmful to team morale. It would be much better if fans got behind the team and kept their powder dry until we see where we are when his contract is up next year.

But folk have consistently given other options that are realistic. I think the biggest issue for the majority of supporters is simple. It’s not “Chris Wilder”.

That’s fine, but like when wilder calls us “punters” things like “PlayStation managers” and comes out with absolute nonsense regarding why he’s done this or that during a match, or says “it’s nothing tactically” he’s understandably going to get hammered for talking absolute waffle.

 

[luffenhamblade]

But folk have consistently given other options that are realistic. I think the biggest issue for the majority of supporters is simple. It’s not “Chris Wilder”.

That’s fine, but like when wilder calls us “punters” things like “PlayStation managers” and comes out with absolute nonsense regarding why he’s done this or that during a match, or says “it’s nothing tactically” he’s understandably going to get hammered for talking absolute waffle.

Realistic is one thing, realistic and a genuine step up is another. I agree it's time for a change, but I need some names that actually make me feel positive about the next steps, and so far that ain't happening.

 

[Danetheblade]

Realistic is one thing, realistic and a genuine step up is another. I agree it's time for a change, but I need some names that actually make me feel positive about the next steps, and so far that ain't happening.

In terms of step up, we’re looking for a manager to get us above where we’ve finished this season. In the words of wilder (ironically) you’re only as good as your current season.. I say ironically as he loves mentioning 92 points lol.

I mean, regards managers, I’m sure you’ll have a suggestion? (Not being sarcastic there, genuine question)

 

[LBA_Blade]

Of course it's "allowed". I've said numerous times that Wilder isn't beyond criticism. I think he's made poor team selections and tactical errors this season. I was fuming after Oxford and Plymouth last season. I probably posted to that effect. And of course we can criticise players if they perform badly. It's part of being a fan.

What I don't like is people calling for him to be sacked right now, while offering no plan going forward apart from "get someone else in". He isn't going to be sacked this summer, and calling for his sacking is harmful to team morale. It would be much better if fans got behind the team and kept their powder dry until we see where we are when his contract is up next year.

The board need to sit down with some football director/ technical director experts along with Wilder to bring in a short and long term plan. Wilder has 2 seasons left on contract, so in theory we are looking for a replacement in 2028. But ideally we need a model in place that can bring through the next head coach

 

[Aston max]

I’d happy have Scott Parker as manager when he leaves Burnley soon. He has a proven track record in this division, and much more reliable than Wilder will ever be.

I've given you a like but I don't think the jurors would give him long unless he showed a lot of improvement and continuous top 6 league position.

 

[luffenhamblade]

In terms of step up, we’re looking for a manager to get us above where we’ve finished this season. In the words of wilder (ironically) you’re only as good as your current season.. I say ironically as he loves mentioning 92 points lol.

I mean, regards managers, I’m sure you’ll have a suggestion? (Not being sarcastic there, genuine question)

Really struggle with any I’ve heard mentioned being a step up (ie able to get us both promoted and secure in the PL with the sort of funding that Sunderland and Leeds have had). For me it probably needs to be an oversees coach en route to manage Spurs, Man City, Arsenal etc within a couple of years. I’ve no idea who appropriate candidates might be as I don’t have an oversees coaching network but I’m sure someone does. None of the names managing in lower leagues in uk have excited me but very happy to be proved wrong.

 

[Dkc]

Wilder has 2 seasons left on contract

One isn't it?

 

[Dkc]

For me it probably needs to be an oversees coach en route to manage Spurs, Man City, Arsenal etc within a couple of years.

Selles was touted as that last season by some. Young Spanish coach, new ideas, impressive record. He had admirers in the Prem.

Shame he turned out to be fucking useless.

 

[Danetheblade]

Really struggle with any I’ve heard mentioned being a step up (ie able to get us both promoted and secure in the PL with the sort of funding that Sunderland and Leeds have had). For me it probably needs to be an oversees coach en route to manage Spurs, Man City, Arsenal etc within a couple of years. I’ve no idea who appropriate candidates might be as I don’t have an oversees coaching network but I’m sure someone does. None of the names managing in lower leagues in uk have excited me but very happy to be proved wrong.

I think Skubala at Lincoln would be a good choice, though I’ll admit he’d be absolutely insane to come here as Lincoln are genuinely a better set up that we are at the moment. If you’re wanting a manager with experience of the English league, Robins would be a good shout. Came close with Coventry. If you want my batshit no chance choice it’d be Rosenior, did very well at Strasbourg, didn’t deserve the sacking at Hull and were on a hiding to nothing at Chelsea.

Granted Rosenior wouldn’t even contemplate us.

In an ideal world I’d like a manager in the Skubala/Eckhart mould, but preferably direct from Europe to avoid the higher compensation cost. I don’t think we’d even know where to begin with this, but I’m tired of the same back and forth regards Wilder. We need to break away from the monotonous cycle. I know plenty who are tired of the circus he brings, that’s not to say I don’t appreciate what he’s done (especially the first term).

 

[Tom Bott]

The wilder cult will preach that his job was to keep us up. But read the owners statement when he was reappointed- they said promotion push.

He’s failed their target

The Labour party keep telling us they are putting more money in the working mans pocket.

Statements are often that which people wish to hear.

Did COH say in the summer that appointing Selles, James Bord and a band of AI approved journeymen players was their best bet for a promotion push?

Many of these players are now under long contracts with us, out of the 14 players Hoovered up last season how many are any good?

 

[RAP51]

100% correct. He needs the Blades job more than we need him.

Wilder will be 60 years old next year and I'm pretty sure financially he will not need to work again for the rest of his life.
I'm sure he genuinely wants United to succeed especially under his leadership and he is a genuine Blade.
I'm sure also he enjoys the kudos and limelight that comes with being a professional football manager and also genuinely feels all the stress and strain that goes with the job.
He only really needs us for his own ego.
I think our owners need him for the time being as they are limited financially and don't want the expense of paying him off and see him as a steady pair of hands for next season.
So whether you are for or against him I think we all need to expect him to be allowed his rebuild including selling some of our better assets and wheeling and dealing to drastically change the squad.
Unless this is a complete disaster he will be here for at least a season.
I'm 74 now and in pretty good shape for my age but wouldn't put money of seeing Premier League football again at the Lane.
Although that disappoints me, there are plenty of worse things that can happen.