Wilder - Get Rid Now, or After Last Game

[luffenhamblade]

They count - it's just not a great time to bring good players in - tends to be a bit rubbish.

 

[luffenhamblade]

They count - it's just not a great time to bring good players in - tends to be a bit rubbish.

Sorry, just woken up on a Sunday morning, so a bit slow and realise now it was a poor attempt at a dig. You don't need to do that, I'm pretty sure you are winning the argument!

 

[Old Programme seller]

Bamford was free how much did that cost?
Jaïro Riedewald was also a free agent.
You could of course add the £10 million for Cannon from the previous January then divide by 3 to get a figure of £ 3.33 million for Bamford and try to make a case for that being 'waste'.

Or that the signing of Danny Ings by the non Wilder summer superstars was money better spent.

My basic mathematics suggests that Wilder has wasted considerably less this season than COH/Selles/James Bord managed during last summer.

A free signing is not free, a big signing on fee and inflated wages it wouldn’t surprise me if Bamford earns more than Cannon

 

[Blade59]

Think the problem is who sources and appoints his replacement. The American owners clearly haven't got a clue, The only external appointments under Betis have been Slav and Selles and I am not sure how much involvement he had in either of them. That is why we need a football man on the board, preferably one who has served a similar role at a Championship club or above. This would be the first step to putting a proper structure in place that oversees the football operation and develops a proper strategy to take the club forward. This is far more important than just taking a punt on replacing Wilder in the hope we end up with something better, which is effectively what we did last summer,

 

[Old Programme seller]

With no money to spend (most likely a sell to survive policy) who would we want to come in and take over someone who can work with what we have and also to duck and dive in the transfer market?

 

[jt64]

It is truly amazing how there are so many people that cannot comprehend that sacking Wilder mk2 and Selles being the wrong call can both be right at the same time, and that admitting you were wrong about the new guy doesn't mean you were wrong about the old guy

 

[Iffy Onuora's Shiny Head]

There’s no reasoning with them, so I’m not going to, it’s not worth my time and what little energy I have.

They’re happy with how things are, others think things could be better.

It’s possible to be grateful he kept us up, but think change is for the best. Not just the manager but how the club does things.

I’m tired of how we do things if I’m honest. Something is happening to me that I thought would never happen.

I’m falling out of love

Exactly. And its not like he did it for free. Im sure he did it for a very very good salary.
Dave Basset is held in high regard by most supporters but that doesnt mean we want him to manage us into next season.

 

[KMC-1889]

• Quick reminder of what happened the last time the club got rid of Wilder:

Quick reminder of what happened the first time we got rid of wilder:



Fancy using the ‘insanity is repeating the same thing’ cliche when you’re defending a manager here on his third stint. It’d be funny if it wasn’t so ridiculous.

 

[The Crab]

Exactly. And its not like he did it for free. Im sure he did it for a very very good salary.
Dave Basset is held in high regard by most supporters but that doesnt mean we want him to manage us into next season.

Nuance isn’t allowed here mate. You’re either completely for or completely against

 

[Davalon]

CW has lost 17 games. Both Leicester and Oxford have lost less than us over the season.
Sufc have lost 29 points from winning positions
We have been awful since end of February and CW has proved incapable of affecting the situation.
Norwich and Southampton both changed managers at around the same time. 1 is in the playoffs and the other are a few points short, but have been on a great run.

On this evidence alone i have moved to the Change Manager camp. I am fearful of next season and see us bottom 8.

They both appointed forrins. We don't like forrins cos they don't get the club and the two we've had in 137 years didn't work out.

I'm pretty confident a frighteningly sizeable percentage of our fanbase would rather Billy Sharp be manager next season that the Soton and Norwich managers.

 

[TJ blade]

They both appointed forrins. We don't like forrins cos they don't get the club and the two we've had in 137 years didn't work out.

I'm pretty confident a frighteningly sizeable percentage of our fanbase would rather Billy Sharp be manager next season that the Soton and Norwich managers.

I think your spot on pal, which makes us the biggest basket case club ever sadly

 

[crucialkneeligaman]

With no money to spend (most likely a sell to survive policy) who would we want to come in and take over someone who can work with what we have and also to duck and dive in the transfer market?

Doesn't matter what we think sadly, it' s down to COH & Bettis, neither of whom have a clue, therein lies the problem. Pretty depressing.

 

[Blade56]

The amount of fans still in the ground until the final whistle or even for the “lap of appreciation” doesn’t suggest there is a great amount of support for Wilder.

It seems the support he does have is for us to give him 10 games or until Christmas. It really isn’t a good place for us to be in.

I'll never understand why they gave him such a long contract - yet more proof of the stupidity of our owners - gathering up millstones to hang round their own neck like Chong & McGuiness.
Or do they rely on Director Bettis for this kind of thing ?
Either way , they're like children destroying their own toy

I thought his contract was up this summer?

 

[Danetheblade]

I thought his contract was up this summer?

Think it ends after next season. Banter when the board extend it

 

[BangorBlade]

Bad news I'm afraid - Shackleton has another year on his contract.

Can his contract not be terminated due to fitness issues/mutual agreement

 

[Houston_Blade]

Oh, right, so they're not behaving like pigs then, they're just insane. Good to know.

• Quick reminder of how insanity is often defined:

View attachment 235855


• Quick reminder of what happened the last time the club got rid of Wilder:

View attachment 235857

If anyone thinks a repeat of the utter fiasco that culminated in that shocking League table I've posted above, is "best for United", they genuinely are insane.

And I'm the one that needs to give my head a wobble...

View attachment 235859

What about the year Hecky was manager and we got promoted to the PL? Shall we ignore that because it doesn’t fit your narrative?

The notion that Wilder is the only manager for us is one that even the most staunch Wilderites should be worried about, if it’s the case then the club is absolutely broken beyond repair.

If COH go down the same route as they did with Selles, then we will end up in the same situation. If they restructure the football side of the club, make it fit for purpose and not reliant on one person, it should see an improvement. It might not be instantaneous, then I’m fairly sure you’d jump all over it and demand that Wilder be reappointed, but in the long run we can’t keep being reliant on one bloke who was good for us 7-10 years ago and now seems to have lost his motivational skills.

As it stands with the club, Wilder is the right man. We won’t get promoted with him, but we won’t get relegated either (unless he keeps playing McGuinness and Rothwell). If that’s the limit of our ambition it’s going to be a long few seasons.

 

[pollster]

A free signing is not free, a big signing on fee and inflated wages it wouldn’t surprise me if Bamford earns more than Cannon

I wouldn't be surprized if he earns twice as much.
Ipswich abandoned thoughts of signing him and they (as one of 3 other clubs with parachute money) were the only other one to consider it.
Similarly OHare will be on more.
I would expect Rotweiller and even Rothwell to be the same or more as well.
That is why Chelsea have gone for young players
They cost less in wages
You would have to ask Wilder why he always prefers older expansive players with no resale value.
(I have an opinion which I have expressed before)
That is why Saudi49er learned to control him at SUFC
ie no signing - use Siddy Peck
That is the main reason they were sick of him at Oxford
eg We had a player Kitson literally signed by the Chairman Judas McCabe
He was past it and useless here
The next season he was a fixture in Wilders Oxford team - admittedly at the top of the fourth division.
I would think a lot was expended in the transfer window 'to clinch our play off position'
Has everyone forgot they were top League signings?
I think even Wilder is trying to pretend he did not waste God knows how much on one of his many 'long term targets' Phillips.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Can his contract not be terminated due to fitness issues/mutual agreement

Not without paying up the remaining value of it.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

It is truly amazing how there are so many people that cannot comprehend that sacking Wilder mk2 and Selles being the wrong call can both be right at the same time, and that admitting you were wrong about the new guy doesn't mean you were wrong about the old guy

Southampton and Norwich have both sacked their manager this season, and neither went back to the previous manager.

Look how it turned out for them... Wait a minute.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Southampton and Norwich have both sacked their manager this season, and neither went back to the previous manager.

Look how it turned out for them... Wait a minute.

You can’t compare us to Norwich or Southampton. They are professionally run clubs.

 

[Davalon]

You can’t compare us to Norwich or Southampton. They are professionally run clubs.

With fanbases who have broader horizons.

And I can deffo speak for Norwich as I know lots of their fans having worked with many over 30 years.

 

[Numpty's Dusty Ruts.]

People support United, want United to succeed. They mostly don't care who the manager is. They have opinions on if it's working

Calling people who don't believe Wilder is the right manager Pigs, or saying they display 'pig-like behaviour' is another reason some people are sick of this era. It's like a cult at times, "you're only a proper Blade if you support Wilder". Both extremes of the argument are boring.

Get over yourself. The vast majority of us only care about United, not the shitty soap opera that comes with Wilder now.

Great post CB. I thought the idea was to support the club, not the regime.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Great post CB. I thought the idea was to support the club, not the regime.

It's just all a bit tiring

 

[Numpty's Dusty Ruts.]

It's just all a bit tiring

I agree mate. Roll on the close season!!

 

[loveWalrusDaveTheBlade]

I know a lot of Blades who despise Wilder on this forum post this sort of stuff regularly. Also, understand the feeling that leads to the post and the emotion that we all feel. It's also clear that the same bunch likes these posts each time, which again I get, as it probably makes them feel better. If you see my posts, I am at the point where I recognise we need a change, but lack confidence in COH getting it right, and that's my problem. Getting rid of Wilder makes some feel better for a short while, "a dopamine thing after years of frustration," but if, as feels likely, we don't make the right appointment, then we are on a downward spiral. I also recognise that those massive anti-Wilders will see that as a price worth paying, and I'm almost at the point where I recognise we need to accept the pain now to refocus for the future, but, and here's my long-winded point, this kind of post is just fueling the division between fans. I feel that Wilder is on the way out, maybe now, maybe next season, but it feels inevitable, so maybe it's time to try in our posts to bring fans together, so when this happens, we can have a joint view on next steps and get behind future management. Tough to take when you want to flaunt a victory, I know, but what is better for our club?

Supporters expressing their views on a social media platform will have absolutely no effect on the future. The only contribution that we as fans can make to influence performance on the pitch is to turn up in numbers ( which, to our credit, we do) and get behind the team vocally - something which is widely recognised as having significant positive motivational impact on the players, and something in which we, as fans, have spectacularly failed in at home games this season.
Everything else is beyond our control.

 

[shorehamview]

It’s entirely possible to be a fan of Wilder and to appreciate the great times he’s given us while also wanting the club to progress, and wanting better than we have currently got.

I loved the first spell under Wilder, we were great to watch right up to Covid. I also sometimes despaired at the signings that didn’t make it for one reason or another while loving the ones that did.

We need to progress beyond our current state, be that under Chris Wilder or a different manager. One way may be easier than the other, and if I knew which way was the best I’d be a director of football somewhere. And I’m not.

 

[LBA_Blade]

The problem with our current setup is that we don’t have big money for a Director of Football/technical director, we also don’t have a head coach/ manager that is capable of surrendering control to such a person. Having thought about the clubs that have had similar recent success and failures to us like Southampton have had the DoF model in place for numerous years, the steady football clubs in the Premier League all do too. Even Lincoln City do.

Age and massive football experience isn’t a prerequisite for a DofF most at clubs are strategy people first and foremost. There are several areas that needs improvement

 

[luffenhamblade]

Supporters expressing their views on a social media platform will have absolutely no effect on the future. The only contribution that we as fans can make to influence performance on the pitch is to turn up in numbers ( which, to our credit, we do) and get behind the team vocally - something which is widely recognised as having significant positive motivational impact on the players, and something in which we, as fans, have spectacularly failed in at home games this season.
Everything else is beyond our control.

Not sure about that, think Wilder was sacked last year based on a fairly small but noisy group of fans online. Agree that group is much louder now but don’t minimise the largely negative power of social media. Personally I enjoy decent, respectful discussions - just want to keep it “social” rather than the abusive version that is so easy to emerge.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Not sure about that, think Wilder was sacked last year based on a fairly small but noisy group of fans online. Agree that group is much louder now but don’t minimise the largely negative power of social media. Personally I enjoy decent, respectful discussions - just want to keep it “social” rather than the abusive version that is so easy to emerge.

You don’t consider the shocking series of results that cost us an automatic place and the shenanigans surrounding it may have also been a talking point at board level or do you genuinely believe it was down to a “fairly small group”?

Unless they’ve learned anything, based on that theory, he’ll be gone next Sunday.

 

[luffenhamblade]

You don’t consider the shocking series of results that cost us an automatic place and the shenanigans surrounding it may have also been a talking point at board level or do you genuinely believe it was down to a “fairly small group”?

Unless they’ve learned anything, based on that theory, he’ll be gone next Sunday.

I’m not disputing what you are saying but last summer there seemed many fewer fans with their heads above water on this one. My point was responding to that around forums not having an impact and I was simply expressing my view that it did last summer when there was much less “real world” noise - the point wasn’t relating to the football on the pitch which gets thrown back and forth from that time ad nauseum.