Wilder - Get Rid Now, or After Last Game

[luffenhamblade]

I'd been out of the country for about 4 years until last week and I decided to rock up last minute last night. I'll be leaving again before next season comes round, and I don't think I could give less of a fuck for missing it.

Blimey, you pick your games don't you!

 

[Blade56]

I don't follow any other clubs, in depth, just my team, but I'd be interested to know how a non-parachute team (Coventry) dominated the division for most of the season and were promoted with games to spare.

Is that down to Lampard?, did he and his recruitment team strike lucky with available, affordable players?, are the owners football people, clued up on the modern game?

Anyone here have any ideas about that.

Coventry/Lampard has shown a Manager/Coach does make a difference just as Wilder 1 did a decade ago.

 

[ATL Recs]

Thing is at Lincoln, everything in the background runs smoothly with DoF etc, it's not just down to Skubala. Same can't be said at Lane. Mousinho at Pompey would be a shout also though.

Honestly can't see it getting much better with Wilder at helm next season in all honesty.

Based on tonight yes. Based on this season. No.

Firstly, I'll give you some facts and this is with or without Wilder in charge.

We will see the back of:
Hjelde, Hoever, Mee, T.Davies, Soumare, Ogbene and Ings. Sadly Bindon too.

It's also very likely Hamer will be sold as will someone such as Peck to raise funds.

That's 8 players for deffo, 10 players potentially.

With Wilder in charge we will likely also ship out: Matos and maybe Chong and McGuinness. That's a further 3 players out "potentially". Matos will be a definite. I'd like to include Shackleton here but it's doubtful anyone would be a taker with his injuries.

Next season whoever the manager is presents a big turnover is playing staff. It's extremely likely nigh on certain we will see about 10+ signings by September.

It's potentially an opportunity to shape how said coach/manager wants to play. After this it will be hard to hide behind it, for any manager. Despite a big drop in budget.

Had Wilder been here after the PO final loss and we had, had the start we did he would have been sacked. Had he been here all season and served up a 14th place finish this season we would be looking to change. Last summers actions change that because the 12 signings we made last summer were largely poor and we had a shocking start.

It's a risk, but it's also a risk to bring in a new manager and think that will absolutely work. Sure it might but there are never any guarantees in football.
That time may come, it could even come 10 games into next season (I really hope not).

Agree with this but who, considering the wages contracts and fees are going to buy Matos Chong and McGuinness and I will add Tanganga who is awful ? - nope I reckon most (9) of that first half side will be the backbone of the team plus Shackleton who he has already alluded to for next season. God help us if that's the case

 

[metalblade]

I don't think we could attract him, but would love Liam Rosenior (not his fault Chelsea are a joke) and give him the keys. Smart guy that has already done various very good jobs.

Mark Robins (it's physically impossible to do well at Stoke).

Alex Neill assuming Millwall don't get promoted and his release clause/compensation is very affordable (always seems to get doubted, but clearly an excellent manager).

These are a few of the most obvious, almost uninspiring, choices off the top of my head... That I'd feel better about next season if we appointed one in May or early June.

Sorry Chris, but... I don't think it's happening!? Based on everything we're seeing. Not knee jerk to last night, just generally. Concerns include, among other things, treatment of Brooks and Seriki (arguably our most valuable and promising players), baffling use of attacking players, baffling lack of defensive shape and solidity, lack of cohesion and systems in general. I can't even be bothered to watch anymore, which I've only ever done before in 2021.

You know Wilder will sell Ryan Oné don't ya? All the younger players dropped last night and look where that got us. FFS get rid and bring someone in who will nurture these young players they are the future not crocked journeymen on big wages and long contracts. Running abarht a bit and pashun isn't doing much good looking at recent performances, lucky to beat Hull, and Watford looked even more on the beach than this shower we have here.

 

[alcoblade]

I don't follow any other clubs, in depth, just my team, but I'd be interested to know how a non-parachute team (Coventry) dominated the division for most of the season and were promoted with games to spare.

Is that down to Lampard?, did he and his recruitment team strike lucky with available, affordable players?, are the owners football people, clued up on the modern game?

Anyone here have any ideas about that.

We were recently promoted with no parachute money. What did we do differently? Sometimes it's just chance, sometimes skill. The reality is there can only be one winner, and it doesn't mean that everyone else has done much wrong.

I do fear we're turning into Stoke though, trying to catch players at the end of their careers with all the negatives (and positives) that come with that.

 

[metalblade]

We were recently promoted with no parachute money. What did we do differently? Sometimes it's just chance, sometimes skill. The reality is there can only be one winner, and it doesn't mean that everyone else has done much wrong.

I do fear we're turning into Stoke though, trying to catch players at the end of their careers with all the negatives (and positives) that come with that.

It is a very poor Championship this season only Coventry stand out, the rest chasing them ............. well none will finish with more than 85pts which says it all. Will more than likely be Ipswich and Southampton going up with them.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Really sensible comments, I know a couple of Cov fans, and they have done it the "right" way. The reason I remain on the fence is that I just don't have confidence that our board know how to do it the "right way" and I'd rather not have another disastrous attempt at "regime change". Just look at Leicester, another club I know several fans of. For every situation we can point to in the Championship of things clicking, there seems to be an opposite example, and it always comes down to the club's leadership first and foremost, which, unfortunately, we can't do much about. Genuinely hope to be proven wrong.

Leicester's owners ran out of money

 

[AdamSufc1997]

Like I said before it’s a shame these owners wasn’t in before we appointed Slav. I believe he would have got us a completely different team with a different style of play.

 

[Pandev]

I think the most concerning thing which is a constant theme for Wilder is a reluctance to change tactics / formation.

That first half was dreadful before the 2nd and 3rd goals. Why did it take till half time and being 3-0 down for him to change formation / personnel??

The first half showed O‘Neil had done his homework and knew how to hurt us. Completely cancelled us out meaning we did sideways passing until they won the ball back and broke away.

I just think Wilder is so often out done tactically and he will take far too long to change things.

(Also posted in Blackburn match thread)

 

[luffenhamblade]

Leicester's owners ran out of money

It's a lot more complex than that! Just ask a few Leicester fans.

 

[Carlton Blade]

It's a lot more complex than that! Just ask a few Leicester fans.

They signed expensive players that flopped, couldn't move them and overleveraged themselves across their whole business empire meaning they had to stop putting money in. They incorrectly assumed PL stability when it doesn't exist

 

[dexter101]

Can the pro-Wilder fans explain exactly what they expect to see different next season?

Apart from 5 disastrous games under Selles that's 87 games under Wilder over the last 2 seasons and I genuinely cannot remember more than a handful of times where we looked anything more than adequate. OK yes, he got us to 92 points last season but Good God it was boring turgid shit football.

What is Wilder going to do in the summer that will give a different outcome? Fuck all is the answer, we will have a squad full of Brexit Championship cloggers with a few Prem loans thown in that may or may not work and round and round we go again.....

I am not a Wilder fanatic, but I am a pro not sacking him this summer.

Its a strange rationale but here is my reasoning.

January 2024- Wilder appointed in the PL with a task of rebuilding the side. We got relegated but he was given the task of a squad rebuild.

Summer transfer window 2024- huge turnover of players, we brought in some good signings but it was fairly obvious that we weren't quite finished.

December 2024- Doing well in the league, injuries had meant bringing in academy players showing again the squad wasn't quite finished.

May 2025- having been top at Christmas, we miss out on autos and then mess up the play off final.

If we had kept him last summer and let him carry on the journey, we could have decided if it wasn't working to then get rid.

As it stands now, we are basically in the same place (but worse off) that 2 years ago.


I hope this doesn't happen but Wilder needs to leave the club either on a high or on a very clear low all of his making.

That way we can all move on from him one way or another.


bringing in a new manager this summer will just lead to a repeat of last summer unless very quickly they have amazing success... with no money... and a crap squad.

 

[KMC-1889]

We were recently promoted with no parachute money. What did we do differently? Sometimes it's just chance, sometimes skill. The reality is there can only be one winner, and it doesn't mean that everyone else has done much wrong.

I do fear we're turning into Stoke though, trying to catch players at the end of their careers with all the negatives (and positives) that come with that.

So far everything is pointing to Wilder being lucky rather than good. he's not been able to recapture the same success with us (twice), Watford or Boro.

 

[LBA_Blade]

He spent plenty of time upfront last night. I can't defend him by watching one of six goals in forty eight games. Even if I grant he was out of position a lot, it's no excuse for the number of times he loses the ball with an awful touch, or the number of times he gets tackled on a ball he's a 90/10 favourite for. I've been so patient with him, given him a lot of chances, but he's just a bad player.

First half, there was a ball where Chong dummied the defender and the ball is running down the line. Cannon is central and he's just walking. Chong gets the ball and looks up and Cannon is on the edge of the box still. No option to cross so Chong plays it backwards up the line. That's routine garbage from Cannon.

There is a player in there when you look at what he did at previous clubs played in the right position he can score goals. If we break down this season so far. According to stats online he has played 1,656 minutes which is equivalent to approx. 18 matches, scoring 5 times for us puts him in the goal every 3 games ish area. Going on shots its 40 so a goal every 8th shot, shots on target being 15. (Source https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/players/1113736/thomas-cannon)

I don't think he is going to be an established Premier League striker, nor do I think he is worth £10mill however he isn't to blame for performances of the squad. Cannon plays off the shoulder and a lot of the times when he gets a shot away or he scores you will see the run that he makes is late, with an aim of beating the offside trap. I don't think Chong should be playing central AM. He is a left footer and unless they have really been working on something different in training since Saturday, I am not sure why he was selected to play there. Cannon will be on the edge off the box as he will be expecting a Hamer style ball in over the top for him to run on too.

 

[CPB]

I get your point that recruitment last year may have been different had Wilder stayed but last nights starting line up contained just 3 of those summer signings and we were absolutely woeful. Wilder has been coaching them for 40 plus games so the excuses are wearing thin, as my lad said this morning, he is losing his Selles Get out of Jail free card very soon.

Good point about that only 3 started of last summer signings. We hauled 2 of those off and did improve after the break but it was about the lowest bar set in the 1st half.
But what I'd counter a bit is that if our squad depth was better to account for the players carrying illness then our starting 11 last night may have been a wee bit better too.

 

[Woodhouseblades]

16 games lost under Wilder this season - not once as he took responsibility for anything. Always an excuse. Always someone else or something else to blame. Incredible memories under Wilder, he will always be a legend but we need to transition as a club away from Wilder and put proper infrastructure in place - particularly a proper recruitment team, not Wilders mates because "they get what it means to be a blade" (Hoyland & Mitch etc).

 

[Torrix1889]

Good point about that only 3 started of last summer signings. We hauled 2 of those off and did improve after the break but it was about the lowest bar set in the 1st half.
But what I'd counter a bit is that if our squad depth was better to account for the players carrying illness then our starting 11 last night may have been a wee bit better too.

Can't argue with that but like I said, Wilder has worked with these players, most of whom were his signings, for 40 odd games and still can't get a tune out of them. We have lost more games than any other team in the Championship, (bar the Pigs of course) and we have lost more points from a winning position than anyone else. That's hugely concerning from a coaching/fitness/tactics/game management point of view.

 

[Torrix1889]

There is a player in there when you look at what he did at previous clubs played in the right position he can score goals. If we break down this season so far. According to stats online he has played 1,656 minutes which is equivalent to approx. 18 matches, scoring 5 times for us puts him in the goal every 3 games ish area. Going on shots its 40 so a goal every 8th shot, shots on target being 15. (Source https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/players/1113736/thomas-cannon)

I don't think he is going to be an established Premier League striker, nor do I think he is worth £10mill however he isn't to blame for performances of the squad. Cannon plays off the shoulder and a lot of the times when he gets a shot away or he scores you will see the run that he makes is late, with an aim of beating the offside trap. I don't think Chong should be playing central AM. He is a left footer and unless they have really been working on something different in training since Saturday, I am not sure why he was selected to play there. Cannon will be on the edge off the box as he will be expecting a Hamer style ball in over the top for him to run on too.

View attachment 235656

We haven't got a single midfielder who can play a simple throughball for Cannon to run onto, closest we have is CO'H but he tends to hold onto it for far too long.

 

[blades_95]

Good point about that only 3 started of last summer signings. We hauled 2 of those off and did improve after the break but it was about the lowest bar set in the 1st half.
But what I'd counter a bit is that if our squad depth was better to account for the players carrying illness then our starting 11 last night may have been a wee bit better too.

A fair point and the squad isn’t a top 6 side at all. Even our best players have serious limitations (e.g. Hamer, lack of discipline & fitness) that we’re not compensating for this season like we did last year.

My issue is that Wilder keeps digging players out & basically telling everyone they won’t be here next year, then he plays them in one off games & expects them to turn up full throttle for him. Where’s the motivation for the fringe players?

We’ve had too many horrific performances this season under both managers. The drop off from one game to the next is so alarming, we genuinely looked like a League 1 team playing a top Championship side last night.

 

[Pintor75]

He's had sufficient time this season to turn it around, but it's been poor football, bar 3/4 games, we will have to sack him or put up with him till end of contract as he'll not walk this time because he'll never have an opportunity like this again, don't know his contract length, I just hope he doesn't waste wht little money we'll have on junk in the summer then we're back to another clearout

 

[Bladesman]

We haven't got a single midfielder who can play a simple throughball for Cannon to run onto, closest we have is CO'H but he tends to hold onto it for far too long.

Hamer can but Hamer will smack it at goal from 40 yards instead.

 

[JT89]

So far everything is pointing to Wilder being lucky rather than good. he's not been able to recapture the same success with us (twice), Watford or Boro.

I’ve said it before, but his initial success came when we had a team with leaders on the pitch and a lot of quality players with something to prove.

Even back then we hardly seemed to have a plan b, but we were lucky that our players made plan a work so well more often than not.

How much of that success came from Wilder and how much game from having those players at the time?

I’ve questioned before whether that also effected our overall fitness, we had several players back then who openly went above and beyond in terms of getting themselves fit especially between seasons and I’m sure they will have rubbed off on the rest of the squad and driven them all to push themselves.

Take for example a lineup of, Henderson, Baldock, Basham, Egan, Oconnel, Stevens, Norwood, Coutts, Fleck, McGoldrick, Sharp… you could realistically pick 8/9 (if not all) of those to be captain without question, I doubt they needed much motivation from the manager.

Maybe Wilder was great, or maybe he stumbled upon a system that suited the players we had and those players would have run through brick walls for each other.

He hasn’t been able to replicate this kind of team in any of his more recent spells as manager and when he’s been required to be tactically astute he’s been found lacking on many occasions.

 

[LBA_Blade]

He's had sufficient time this season to turn it around, but it's been poor football, bar 3/4 games, we will have to sack him or put up with him till end of contract as he'll not walk this time because he'll never have an opportunity like this again, don't know his contract length, I just hope he doesn't waste wht little money we'll have on junk in the summer then we're back to another clearout

Presuming he re-joined based on his original contract extension that was done in January 2025 he is signed here till Summer of 2028 so 2 more seasons, we either stick now with a plan to bring someone in 2028 or have to pay him out again. The downside is that both Knill and Prestridge also have contracts running until 2028 and they also have Ramos, Collins, McSheffrey and Duke (GK coach) all in the set-up too.

 

[SB_90]

I still believe Wilder is the best man for 26/27. But while he says it’s a big pre-season for the players, it’s a huge season for him too. Right now, I don’t see much middle ground heading into 27/28.

Either he gets it right, or we move on & that depends on what version of Wilder we get. Is it the free-flowing, high-scoring football from December to half-time of the Sheffield derby, when we scored 3+ 9 times? Or is it what we’ve seen since the 2nd half of that derby. 1 good half in us, defensively fragile, constantly giving leads away

Since February 3rd, we’ve only scored 3+ once & even that came in the collapse against Swansea on Good Friday. It’s a reminder of why, at the time, Wilder leaving last June felt like the right call.

The only real positive is that we’d be 9th in the table excluding the Selles period, but overall we’ve been well below the standards of the last decade.

I really hope we get a Wilder Mk3. Because if it’s more like September- November and March to now, we could be sleepwalking into a relegation fight.

 

[LBA_Blade]

I still believe Wilder is the best man for 26/27. But while he says it’s a big pre-season for the players, it’s a huge season for him too. Right now, I don’t see much middle ground heading into 27/28.

Either he gets it right, or we move on & that depends on what version of Wilder we get. Is it the free-flowing, high-scoring football from December to half-time of the Sheffield derby, when we scored 3+ 9 times? Or is it what we’ve seen since the 2nd half of that derby. 1 good half in us, defensively fragile, constantly giving leads away

Since February 3rd, we’ve only scored 3+ once & even that came in the collapse against Swansea on Good Friday. It’s a reminder of why, at the time, Wilder leaving last June felt like the right call.

The only real positive is that we’d be 9th in the table excluding the Selles period, but overall we’ve been well below the standards of the last decade.

I really hope we get a Wilder Mk3. Because if it’s more like September- November and March to now, we could be sleepwalking into a relegation fight.

For me the only reason why I think Wilder should stay is due to the cost to offload him and his assistants. Unless we are recruiting from within there isn't anyone on the free market that is worth going for/likely to come here. We can't afford to be using our summer transfer budget on buying staff out of contracts at their clubs and our club is a "traditional" set-up vs the DoF models others have got. In most professional sport now a Sporting Director/Technical Director/Slap a name tag on a badge seems to be the way forwards, ultimately someone that can identify targets for the right price, that fit within the clubs formation and ethos and bring through academy players. Might seem a bit of a random one but could "Delboy" Geary fulfil this role? He has been within coaching at the club for 10 years, he has brought through some very good academy players into the 1st team, knows the club inside and out. Bristol City did similar with Brian Tinnion, appointing him as Technical Director, it could allow us to change the structure of the club. Put McSheffrey in as Academy Director from 1st team coach (we don't need as many as have we have got) and when we have an option to go for a coach that is used to coaching "the modern way" we have that in place. Wilder has said he reckons he knows what he is going to do with the club so, if his intentions are there. It gives him 2 seasons max to sort out otherwise we go down a modern forward thinking route with coaching.

 

[luffenhamblade]

They signed expensive players that flopped, couldn't move them and overleveraged themselves across their whole business empire meaning they had to stop putting money in. They incorrectly assumed PL stability when it doesn't exist

Again, that’s obvious but is only one part of the issues Leucester have based on their owners. This jas been their success and their downfall but not as simple as you suggest. That’s kind of my point - it’s really easy for us to make simplistic assertions and suggest we have the solutions but in reality, what do we know. I've supported the Blades long enough to to have seen that we don’t tend to have owners who would implement textbook strategies with the intended positive outcomes emerging in reality! It’s very easy to begin a fast, lengthy decline - I really don’t want to go through that again - 4th division was fun, but not that fun.

 

[UTB Blade]

What is the deal with this absurd thinking, that because Wilder led us to promotion 9 and 7 years ago, that we should give him free reign now to have us play like we're desperate to return to League 1?

EVERY fan appreciates the good times that Wilder gave us. But it's outrageous to look at the turgid shite his team is delivering this season, and think, "Well he got us to the PL over half a decade ago, so I think we should give him longer".

I've never seen fans of a football club go so far out of their way to defend a manager who has so clearly had the game pass him by like has happened to CW. It's cult-like at this point.

Well, I've re-read my post several times, and I still can't find where I mentioned Wilder once, much less anything else you've accused me of in your post. I made a general point about supporters appreciating managers who've done well for us, because they've done well for us and not because they're Blades, in response to a remark by the poster I was replying to, that fans won't accept managers who aren't Blades. That's why I mentioned Heckingbottom and Bassett, who weren't Blades at the time they came to manage us, and didn't mention Wilder, a Blade.

If you're going to reply to me, you could at least bother to read and respond to what I've actually said, instead of inventing straw men to argue with, and then directing that argument at me for something I didn't say.

 

[Carlton Blade]

I still believe Wilder is the best man for 26/27. But while he says it’s a big pre-season for the players, it’s a huge season for him too. Right now, I don’t see much middle ground heading into 27/28.

Either he gets it right, or we move on & that depends on what version of Wilder we get. Is it the free-flowing, high-scoring football from December to half-time of the Sheffield derby, when we scored 3+ 9 times? Or is it what we’ve seen since the 2nd half of that derby. 1 good half in us, defensively fragile, constantly giving leads away

Since February 3rd, we’ve only scored 3+ once & even that came in the collapse against Swansea on Good Friday. It’s a reminder of why, at the time, Wilder leaving last June felt like the right call.

The only real positive is that we’d be 9th in the table excluding the Selles period, but overall we’ve been well below the standards of the last decade.

I really hope we get a Wilder Mk3. Because if it’s more like September- November and March to now, we could be sleepwalking into a relegation fight.

We scored 3 in a game 6 times against the bottom 8 teams. 5 times against the rest, but only won 3 of the matches.

For the 2nd season in a row, ruthlessly efficient against the bad teams. Need to find a way to compete against good teams consistently

 

[Shadota]

Well, I've re-read my post several times, and I still can't find where I mentioned Wilder once, much less anything else you've accused me of in your post. I made a general point about supporters appreciating managers who've done well for us, because they've done well for us and not because they're Blades, in response to a remark by the poster I was replying to, that fans won't accept managers who aren't Blades. That's why I mentioned Heckingbottom and Bassett, who weren't Blades at the time they came to manage us, and didn't mention Wilder, a Blade.

If you're going to reply to me, you could at least bother to read and respond to what I've actually said, instead of inventing straw men to argue with, and then directing that argument at me for something I didn't say.

View attachment 235674

You didn't mention Wilder by name, no. That said, is there any other manager, that you could have been referring to here:

It's only in the strange world of S2 that having achieved something for the club leads to ridicule and sneering from sections of the fanbase, and ludicrous short-sighted calls to replace proven, competent managers with unproven gambles.

I hardly see why those "ludicrous short-sighted calls" would be referencing Bassett or Hecky, considering neither of them is currently our manager.

But feel free to keep claiming a straw man to make yourself feel better.

 

[SB_90]

For the 2nd season in a row, ruthlessly efficient against the bad teams. Need to find a way to compete against good teams consistently

Ipswich & stoke were big wins at the time & didn't realise how bad leicester would go on to be in either game

if it's more of the same then i believe we will move on