Wilder - Get Rid Now, or After Last Game

[PokerBlade]

The Davies comment I 100% agree with, the advantage to having conceded 3 is at least he isn’t being shown to be strong competition and with him being out of contract in the summer hopefully it’s fine to say our goodbyes

Regarding Cannon, he is a striker that has been played down the left AM/Winger role and last night down the Right AM/Winger with Chong playing in behind Bamford, the team sheet must have been selected off a dice roll or something. Using the below goal against Leicester shows where Cannon wants the ball. He needs to be playing as a front 2 with Bamford not on the wing. It would be like signing McBurnie or Sharp and playing them as an AM/Winger

He spent plenty of time upfront last night. I can't defend him by watching one of six goals in forty eight games. Even if I grant he was out of position a lot, it's no excuse for the number of times he loses the ball with an awful touch, or the number of times he gets tackled on a ball he's a 90/10 favourite for. I've been so patient with him, given him a lot of chances, but he's just a bad player.

First half, there was a ball where Chong dummied the defender and the ball is running down the line. Cannon is central and he's just walking. Chong gets the ball and looks up and Cannon is on the edge of the box still. No option to cross so Chong plays it backwards up the line. That's routine garbage from Cannon.

 

[ekke287]

Dude, you've completely undermined your points with a pretty horrific analogy

I haven’t. We’re going through shit now and the justification for that it was great before so it’s worth it somehow.

You’d literally do the opposite in any walk of life.

Want another analogy?

You keep lending money to someone who never pays you back.

Better?

 

[Carlton Blade]

I haven’t. We’re going through shit now and the justification for that it was great before so it’s worth it somehow.

You’d literally do the opposite in any walk of life.

Want another analogy?

You keep lending money to someone who never pays you back.

Better?

Yes. It let's you make a point without it being completely dismissed because your analogy is too extreme

 

[sufc323]

We don't even have an identity anymore, it's gotten to a point where it's like he picks his midfield and forward line from a hat. From 2016-2019 you knew exactly what you were going to get and how we would play, and a large part of that success was because the players that played all complemented each other and they played to their strengths. One of my biggest gripes with Wilder II and Wilder III is the constant square pegs in round holes and having a completely unbalanced team.

The worst thing is that from the play offs down, this league is utter dross. There are so many average teams, but we just got through the motions and saunter through games passively with no clear strategy or direction. The players don't give a shit, and deep down I think Wilder knows he hasn't got the passion and desire as he did 10 years ago but is too proud to let someone else take control. Knill is just a shadow of his former self, and fuck knows about the rest of the backroom staff, but with the looks of things on the pitch and how unfit we seem to be every season, they're not doing a lot.

It's scary how much we've regressed, and whilst most other clubs in the top 2 divisions have a modern structure and proper plan in place for continuity, we place all our eggs with 1 man and have a set up like it's 30 years ago.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

Leroys free.

 

[brownblade]

I don't think we could attract him, but would love Liam Rosenior (not his fault Chelsea are a joke) and give him the keys. Smart guy that has already done various very good jobs.

Mark Robins (it's physically impossible to do well at Stoke).

Alex Neill assuming Millwall don't get promoted and his release clause/compensation is very affordable (always seems to get doubted, but clearly an excellent manager).

These are a few of the most obvious, almost uninspiring, choices off the top of my head... That I'd feel better about next season if we appointed one in May or early June.

Sorry Chris, but... I don't think it's happening!? Based on everything we're seeing. Not knee jerk to last night, just generally. Concerns include, among other things, treatment of Brooks and Seriki (arguably our most valuable and promising players), baffling use of attacking players, baffling lack of defensive shape and solidity, lack of cohesion and systems in general. I can't even be bothered to watch anymore, which I've only ever done before in 2021.

 

[brownblade]

Yes. It let's you make a point without it being completely dismissed because your analogy is too extreme

Which bit?

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Leroys free.

The coloured fella off of Fame?

 

[ekke287]

Yes. It let's you make a point without it being completely dismissed because your analogy is too extreme

It’s just an analogy is my point, the extremity of it is irrelevant to the point. I’ve probably phrased it poorly but my general intended point is:

“If you have evidence that something isn’t working, then historical evidence to the contrary shouldn’t come into your decision making”

The recent evidence is hard to ignore. Ignoring it because of previous success is baffling.

 

[Carlton Blade]

It’s just an analogy is my point, the extremity of it is irrelevant to the point. I’ve probably phrased it poorly but my general intended point is:

“If you have evidence that something isn’t working, then historical evidence to the contrary shouldn’t come into your decision making”

The recent evidence is hard to ignore. Ignoring it because of previous success is baffling.

I'm purely talking about your analogy.

 

[ekke287]

I'm purely talking about your analogy.

Fair enough, if you feel it invalidates any argument of my points then that’s my issue on poorly wording.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Fair enough, if you feel it invalidates any argument of my points then that’s my issue on poorly wording.

I've probably harped on it too much. I agree with a lot of what you said. I just think the analogy gives people a chance to ignore the points

 

[Chris the Blade]

We don't even have an identity anymore, it's gotten to a point where it's like he picks his midfield and forward line from a hat. From 2016-2019 you knew exactly what you were going to get and how we would play, and a large part of that success was because the players that played all complemented each other and they played to their strengths. One of my biggest gripes with Wilder II and Wilder III is the constant square pegs in round holes and having a completely unbalanced team.

The worst thing is that from the play offs down, this league is utter dross. There are so many average teams, but we just got through the motions and saunter through games passively with no clear strategy or direction. The players don't give a shit, and deep down I think Wilder knows he hasn't got the passion and desire as he did 10 years ago but is too proud to let someone else take control. Knill is just a shadow of his former self, and fuck knows about the rest of the backroom staff, but with the looks of things on the pitch and how unfit we seem to be every season, they're not doing a lot.

It's scary how much we've regressed, and whilst most other clubs in the top 2 divisions have a modern structure and proper plan in place for continuity, we place all our eggs with 1 man and have a set up like it's 30 years ago.

Truth

 

[Torrix1889]

Can the pro-Wilder fans explain exactly what they expect to see different next season?

Apart from 5 disastrous games under Selles that's 87 games under Wilder over the last 2 seasons and I genuinely cannot remember more than a handful of times where we looked anything more than adequate. OK yes, he got us to 92 points last season but Good God it was boring turgid shit football.

What is Wilder going to do in the summer that will give a different outcome? Fuck all is the answer, we will have a squad full of Brexit Championship cloggers with a few Prem loans thown in that may or may not work and round and round we go again.....

 

[Grappler]

I don't follow any other clubs, in depth, just my team, but I'd be interested to know how a non-parachute team (Coventry) dominated the division for most of the season and were promoted with games to spare.

Is that down to Lampard?, did he and his recruitment team strike lucky with available, affordable players?, are the owners football people, clued up on the modern game?

Anyone here have any ideas about that.

 

[Bladesman]

And what are the positives?

We sat through dull and uninspiring football last season and ignored the lack of plan because we could hold a lead.

We sat through the manager bad mouthing opposition pre-game only to get humbled on the pitch when it mattered most.

We sat through the endless fines and ridiculous behaviour stemming from a near total lack of discipline.

We sat though watching us capitulate on the biggest stage in a game that was there for the taking for the majority.

We sat through the vast majority of this season watching him experiment, drop players seemingly based on personal preference, continue the lack of discipline, publicly slate players and, crucially, have little to no direction or play style.

Yes, he’s “rescued” us from a relegation fight, but it’s not like he came in and we turned around. Remember Charlton at home? First game in charge, huge banner, lose 0-1.

How many points dropped from winning positions? How many questionable lineups? How many nonsense subs that make no impact? How many signings of players that aren’t up to speed or past their best?

This is the evidence to work with, not his previous record. If your mum was in nursing home getting abused for a year, would you leave her there because it won’t an award five years ago?

It’s time to move on. The owners did this at the right time with the wrong decision. We have to back their next choice as we’re sleepwalking to abjectivity and backwards progression.

We as fans need to understand that it takes time and patience, and stop expecting overnight miracles. It doesn’t happen in football.

Yes but apart from all that he’s doing alright though?

 

[KMC-1889]

I don't follow any other clubs, in depth, just my team, but I'd be interested to know how a non-parachute team (Coventry) dominated the division for most of the season and were promoted with games to spare.

Is that down to Lampard?, did he and his recruitment team strike lucky with available, affordable players?, are the owners football people, clued up on the modern game?

Anyone here have any ideas about that.

You wont get a sensible answer, just an ad hominin attack from the Wilderettes.

 

[54yrblade]

And what are the positives?

We sat through dull and uninspiring football last season and ignored the lack of plan because we could hold a lead.

We sat through the manager bad mouthing opposition pre-game only to get humbled on the pitch when it mattered most.

We sat through the endless fines and ridiculous behaviour stemming from a near total lack of discipline.

We sat though watching us capitulate on the biggest stage in a game that was there for the taking for the majority.

We sat through the vast majority of this season watching him experiment, drop players seemingly based on personal preference, continue the lack of discipline, publicly slate players and, crucially, have little to no direction or play style.

Yes, he’s “rescued” us from a relegation fight, but it’s not like he came in and we turned around. Remember Charlton at home? First game in charge, huge banner, lose 0-1.

How many points dropped from winning positions? How many questionable lineups? How many nonsense subs that make no impact? How many signings of players that aren’t up to speed or past their best?

This is the evidence to work with, not his previous record. If your mum was in nursing home getting abused for a year, would you leave her there because it won’t an award five years ago?

It’s time to move on. The owners did this at the right time with the wrong decision. We have to back their next choice as we’re sleepwalking to abjectivity and backwards progression.

We as fans need to understand that it takes time and patience, and stop expecting overnight miracles. It doesn’t happen in football.

Excellent post.

Dear COH - please read and digest.

 

[Roygbiv]

They're not going to sack him so you just have to hope he's still got something left in him. Having Wilder in charge to navigate the team as you restructure the club is a sound idea. He'll very likely keep us up next season. Pretending everything is alright and he will sort it is doomed to fail

I worry that the only way anything changes is if we go down to be honest. The club needs a wake up call

 

[ben1987]

And what are the positives?

We sat through dull and uninspiring football last season and ignored the lack of plan because we could hold a lead.

We sat through the manager bad mouthing opposition pre-game only to get humbled on the pitch when it mattered most.

We sat through the endless fines and ridiculous behaviour stemming from a near total lack of discipline.

We sat though watching us capitulate on the biggest stage in a game that was there for the taking for the majority.

We sat through the vast majority of this season watching him experiment, drop players seemingly based on personal preference, continue the lack of discipline, publicly slate players and, crucially, have little to no direction or play style.

Yes, he’s “rescued” us from a relegation fight, but it’s not like he came in and we turned around. Remember Charlton at home? First game in charge, huge banner, lose 0-1.

How many points dropped from winning positions? How many questionable lineups? How many nonsense subs that make no impact? How many signings of players that aren’t up to speed or past their best?

This is the evidence to work with, not his previous record. If your mum was in nursing home getting abused for a year, would you leave her there because it won’t an award five years ago?

It’s time to move on. The owners did this at the right time with the wrong decision. We have to back their next choice as we’re sleepwalking to abjectivity and backwards progression.

We as fans need to understand that it takes time and patience, and stop expecting overnight miracles. It doesn’t happen in football.

This sums up pretty much perfectly how I feel about it. He was amazing for us, best part of a decade ago but unfortunately football has moved on leaps and bounds and if anything he’s regressed. Hes not innovating new tactics or free kick routines anymore. It’s just bland, safety first football with extremely odd decisions thrown in.

One of the biggest things for me as to why I really don’t trust he’ll move us forward is looking back to January. We’d been in reasonable form and still had a shot at the play offs but we had some key players missing games and others looking burnt out, particularly in midfield. So what does he do… brings in Kalcin Philips who’s not played regular football for a long time and Rothwell who was so far out of favour at Rangers he’d got a permanently numb arse. It was obvious that neither of those players were going to make an immediate impact and help out the squad. At best they needed weeks to regain sharpness. At worst they’d both get stupid red cards and injuries.

He’s then done Rob holding the second on Hjelde. Signs him and barely uses him.

We watched last Januarys mistake miss a simple 1 on 1 last night too. Last season Souttar gets injured, huge miss. We sign Rob Holding, refuse to play him, stick with Jack Robinson and spunk £10m on Cannon and god knows what on BBD without addressing the major issue.

He’s not saved us from certain relegation he’s done what any reasonably competent manager from the championship manager merry go round would’ve done. Our squad was still too good to go down regardless of the summer. Infact he’s probably done worse than several of the faces on the usual uninspiring lists. He’ll have had 40 games to sort it out and we’re not really any better. It’s not like Selles (the main excuse) left last week.

 

[luffenhamblade]

You wont get a sensible answer, just an ad hominin attack from the Wilderettes.

Really sensible comments, I know a couple of Cov fans, and they have done it the "right" way. The reason I remain on the fence is that I just don't have confidence that our board know how to do it the "right way" and I'd rather not have another disastrous attempt at "regime change". Just look at Leicester, another club I know several fans of. For every situation we can point to in the Championship of things clicking, there seems to be an opposite example, and it always comes down to the club's leadership first and foremost, which, unfortunately, we can't do much about. Genuinely hope to be proven wrong.

 

[CPB]

Can the pro-Wilder fans explain exactly what they expect to see different next season?

Apart from 5 disastrous games under Selles that's 87 games under Wilder over the last 2 seasons and I genuinely cannot remember more than a handful of times where we looked anything more than adequate. OK yes, he got us to 92 points last season but Good God it was boring turgid shit football.

What is Wilder going to do in the summer that will give a different outcome? Fuck all is the answer, we will have a squad full of Brexit Championship cloggers with a few Prem loans thown in that may or may not work and round and round we go again.....

Firstly, I'll give you some facts and this is with or without Wilder in charge.

We will see the back of:
Hjelde, Hoever, Mee, T.Davies, Soumare, Ogbene and Ings. Sadly Bindon too.

It's also very likely Hamer will be sold as will someone such as Peck to raise funds.

That's 8 players for deffo, 10 players potentially.

With Wilder in charge we will likely also ship out: Matos and maybe Chong and McGuinness. That's a further 3 players out "potentially". Matos will be a definite. I'd like to include Shackleton here but it's doubtful anyone would be a taker with his injuries.

Next season whoever the manager is presents a big turnover is playing staff. It's extremely likely nigh on certain we will see about 10+ signings by September.

It's potentially an opportunity to shape how said coach/manager wants to play. After this it will be hard to hide behind it, for any manager. Despite a big drop in budget.

Had Wilder been here after the PO final loss and we had, had the start we did he would have been sacked. Had he been here all season and served up a 14th place finish this season we would be looking to change. Last summers actions change that because the 12 signings we made last summer were largely poor and we had a shocking start.

It's a risk, but it's also a risk to bring in a new manager and think that will absolutely work. Sure it might but there are never any guarantees in football.
That time may come, it could even come 10 games into next season (I really hope not).

 

[Torrix1889]

Firstly, I'll give you some facts and this is with or without Wilder in charge.

We will see the back of:
Hjelde, Hoever, Mee, T.Davies, Soumare, Ogbene and Ings. Sadly Bindon too.

It's also very likely Hamer will be sold as will someone such as Peck to raise funds.

That's 8 players for deffo, 10 players potentially.

With Wilder in charge we will likely also ship out: Matos and maybe Chong and McGuinness. That's a further 3 players out "potentially". Matos will be a definite. I'd like to include Shackleton here but it's doubtful anyone would be a taker with his injuries.

Next season whoever the manager is presents a big turnover is playing staff. It's extremely likely nigh on certain we will see about 10+ signings by September.

It's potentially an opportunity to shape how said coach/manager wants to play. After this it will be hard to hide behind it, for any manager. Despite a big drop in budget.

Had Wilder been here after the PO final loss and we had, had the start we did he would have been sacked. Had he been here all season and served up a 14th place finish this season we would be looking to change. Last summers actions change that because the 12 signings we made last summer were largely poor and we had a shocking start.

It's a risk, but it's also a risk to bring in a new manager and think that will absolutely work. Sure it might but there are never any guarantees in football.
That time may come, it could even come 10 games into next season (I really hope not).

I get your point that recruitment last year may have been different had Wilder stayed but last nights starting line up contained just 3 of those summer signings and we were absolutely woeful. Wilder has been coaching them for 40 plus games so the excuses are wearing thin, as my lad said this morning, he is losing his Selles Get out of Jail free card very soon.

 

[blades_95]

I do think he’ll be here in August, but I think optimism for next season will be the lowest it’s been in years.

We’re a bang average mid table side now, and we’re going to lose some of our better players. Big questions about Wilder’s ability in terms of tactics / style of play, fitness, motivation and recruitment.

Feels like we’re watching a car crash in slow motion & I can’t see Wilder galvanising the club again.

 

[Harry's Game]

I am a an unenthusiastic keep Wilder for next season, we just don’t have a coherent structure behind the scenes right now to give a new manager a chance… if we made a change I guarantee we will be bottom 6 in October with the clamour to bring Wilder back again and quite frankly we can do without that.

Unfortunately under This version of Wilder I can also still see us being bottom 6 but at least then the cultists will have to own it.

 

[pedro]

A name on most people’s shopping lists but we can’t offer him anything more than the project he is already developing, recently signed an extended deal too so would need a fee. Plus paying off Wilder, currently is it worth considering bringing in a DoF and promoting one of the coaches within the coaching staff to head coach

NO

 

[FriethBlade]

Problem is it is six of one and half a dozen of the other - for most of us there are positives and negatives for Wilder unlike the blinkered views at either extreme. For me it’s time for a real change come Nov / Dec if he can’t get it together right from the start of the season and demonstrate positivity, consistency and strong results on the pitch. If he does, I'll be perfectly happy for him to continue (just like any other manager before some plonker comes up with the Bladey Blade crap!)

Luffenham that's pretty much how I see it too. The only problem is that if we are lower table by then and have to get rid of hhim then the new manager is going to be left with his signings from this summer. They probably wont be a fit for how the new manager wants to play amd we will be further in the mire.

One thing for sure is this summers signings are going to be older, more experienced players, think Egan/McBurnie/Rothwell types so we risk getting slower and more injury prone in the process.

Its a mess and we just have to hope that CWAK can turn it around otherwise we will be in deep shite

 

[ChinaBlade]

I'd been out of the country for about 4 years until last week and I decided to rock up last minute last night. I'll be leaving again before next season comes round, and I don't think I could give less of a fuck for missing it.

 

[luffenhamblade]

I'd been out of the country for about 4 years until last week and I decided to rock up last minute last night. I'll be leaving again before next season comes round, and I don't think I could give less of a fuck for missing it.

Blimey, you pick your games don't you!

 

[Blade56]

I don't follow any other clubs, in depth, just my team, but I'd be interested to know how a non-parachute team (Coventry) dominated the division for most of the season and were promoted with games to spare.

Is that down to Lampard?, did he and his recruitment team strike lucky with available, affordable players?, are the owners football people, clued up on the modern game?

Anyone here have any ideas about that.

Coventry/Lampard has shown a Manager/Coach does make a difference just as Wilder 1 did a decade ago.