Wilder an alternative view

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

E) Wilder has far from proved he's above Championship level.

Said this at the end of last season when the bed wetters were out in force.

In his one season at this level, he finished 10th. If we're around 10th again, then the only offers he'll be getting will be other 'sleeping giant' Championship clubs...

Dean Smith is the first person to look at as a template. Would Wilder leave us for a Villa/Birmingham/Leeds?

No PL team would be interested at the moment...

 

[Ricky]

Since when did athleticism just mean pace? It includes physical strength and fitness (stamina, natural fitness) too.

To say it isn't 'a requirement at all' given the way we play, is quite frankly, bollocks.

Since when did I say it just meant pace?

How many of our players are strong / agile / have good stamina? Around half are decent athletes, but they're mainly in the defensive half of the pitch, and none of them have real pace, which is very important, no matter what Wilder says.

Good fitness is quite a requirement for the way we play, but that's where we fall down. We don't have above average fitness and start to fade after about 60 minutes pretty much every game. To say athleticism's a key requirement for Wilder though is wrong - it obviously isn't, you only have to look through our team to see that. I think we should place a bigger emphasis on it.

 

[Kenilworth]

Now that's bollocks!

Athleticism's not a requirement at all. We barely have any pace in the squad. Look at our midfield.

Most relegated sides will have more players with those 3 attributes than we do. Not all sides get relegated because they have the wrong attitude. What if Huddersfield, Cardiff or Burnley came down? That would mainly just be due to a lack of quality. But they'd still be good in the Championship and in any case Wilder could make big changes to their squad.

Pace is one attribute of athleticism.
If you don't have athleticism then you won't be able to play the Wilder/Knill system.
It's not the attitude of a side. It's the individual that Wilder and Knill select.
Teams that are relegated will have failed because of a lack of quality compared to the power teams in the prem. What Wilder and Knill do is to close the gap in quality by selecting players that have the attributes to cope with a high tempo game but, most importantly, have the mental fortitude and the right attitude to be part of a collective. They are all for the group and not just the individual. That's the point I was making.

Oh, and the "Bollocks" comment was for you suggesting that Wilder's limit is managing in the Championship.

Most of the time you talk a lot of sense on here, Ricky, but every now and then you come out with some reyt tripe - and suggesting Wilder couldn't manage in the prem is complete and utter bollocks.

 

[Kenilworth]

I think we also shouldn’t under-estimate the significance of Wilder’s preference for UK-born players.

Any Premiership team - or any team with money in the Championship - is going to have quite a few foreign players, and they’re not likely to relish the idea of going through the upheaval of changing that to suit a particular manager. They’re more likely to choose a manager who can fit in with their existing set-up.

Wilder will get offers, but whether he’ll get offers from clubs who can give him significantly greater resources than United, I’m not so sure.

Wilder uses Irish and British players because he is running on a tight budget. Prem budgets allow for a wider net (or if you are bankrolled like Wolves were) because they can fund the array of translators and admin staff required to facilitate foreign players being at a club.
It's a different scale of operations.
Don't forget where we have been for the last 8 years. Other clubs may already have this structure in place

 

[Ricky]

Pace is one attribute of athleticism.
If you don't have athleticism then you won't be able to play the Wilder/Knill system.
It's not the attitude of a side. It's the individual that Wilder and Knill select.
Teams that are relegated will have failed because of a lack of quality compared to the power teams in the prem. What Wilder and Knill do is to close the gap in quality by selecting players that have the attributes to cope with a high tempo game but, most importantly, have the mental fortitude and the right attitude to be part of a collective. They are all for the group and not just the individual. That's the point I was making.

Oh, and the "Bollocks" comment was for you suggesting that Wilder's limit is managing in the Championship.

Most of the time you talk a lot of sense on here, Ricky, but every now and then you come out with some reyt tripe - and suggesting Wilder couldn't manage in the prem is complete and utter bollocks.

Can Norwood, Duffy and most of the attacking players not play the Wilder system then?

It's tripe in your opinion. I don't post stuff with no basis. For example, about Wilder's possible limitations....

One way of playing, never an effective plan B
Inability to change a game with subs or tactics
Recurring theme of being tactically outdone in the second half
Doesn't drop players early enough when they're out of form
Reluctance to sign and work with foreigners
Old school approach, including an apparent 'train as you play' method which could contribute to lower energy in matches
Reluctance to use and promote youth

Even considering budgetary disadvantages, I feel Wilder has started to make plenty of mistakes. Previously I thought sky was the limit for him but time always exposes any weaknesses. I have no doubt he can get a team to the PL, but I'm not sure the PL will ultimately be his level.


By the way, I'll concede you were right about Pogba. I don't care if he's won the World Cup. He's a right cunt.

 

[Kenilworth]

Since when did I say it just meant pace?

How many of our players are strong / agile / have good stamina? Around half are decent athletes, but they're mainly in the defensive half of the pitch, and none of them have real pace, which is very important, no matter what Wilder says.

Good fitness is quite a requirement for the way we play, but that's where we fall down. We don't have above average fitness and start to fade after about 60 minutes pretty much every game. To say athleticism's a key requirement for Wilder though is wrong - it obviously isn't, you only have to look through our team to see that. I think we should place a bigger emphasis on it.

Athleticism's not a requirement at all. We barely have any pace in the squad. Look at our midfield./QUOTE]

 

[Kenilworth]

Can Norwood, Duffy and most of the attacking players not play the Wilder system then?

It's tripe in your opinion. I don't post stuff with no basis. For example, about Wilder's possible limitations....

One way of playing, never an effective plan B
Inability to change a game with subs or tactics
Recurring theme of being tactically outdone in the second half
Doesn't drop players early enough when they're out of form
Reluctance to sign and work with foreigners
Old school approach, including an apparent 'train as you play' method which could contribute to lower energy in matches
Reluctance to use and promote youth

Even considering budgetary disadvantages, I feel Wilder has started to make plenty of mistakes. Previously I thought sky was the limit for him but time always exposes any weaknesses. I have no doubt he can get a team to the PL, but I'm not sure the PL will ultimately be his level.


By the way, I'll concede you were right about Pogba. I don't care if he's won the World Cup. He's a right cunt.

We're short of players for plan A
I'm sure Wilder wants players for plan B as well as I'm sure he and Knilly have one.

Perhaps you can plant a tree for them?

 

[Kenilworth]

Can Norwood, Duffy and most of the attacking players not play the Wilder system then?

It's tripe in your opinion. I don't post stuff with no basis. For example, about Wilder's possible limitations....

One way of playing, never an effective plan B
Inability to change a game with subs or tactics
Recurring theme of being tactically outdone in the second half
Doesn't drop players early enough when they're out of form
Reluctance to sign and work with foreigners
Old school approach, including an apparent 'train as you play' method which could contribute to lower energy in matches
Reluctance to use and promote youth

Even considering budgetary disadvantages, I feel Wilder has started to make plenty of mistakes. Previously I thought sky was the limit for him but time always exposes any weaknesses. I have no doubt he can get a team to the PL, but I'm not sure the PL will ultimately be his level.


By the way, I'll concede you were right about Pogba. I don't care if he's won the World Cup. He's a right cunt.

Like for the Pogba admission
He's further cemented his cuntishness with that tweet after Mourinho left Newton Heath. Plays for himself- hence performances in WC - he's definitely not a Wilder/Knill player.

 

[Ricky]

We're short of players for plan A
I'm sure Wilder wants players for plan B as well as I'm sure he and Knilly have one.

Perhaps you can plant a tree for them?

Simply signing a winger or two would've given us a plan B, and we could have easily done that. We have players who can be part of a plan A or B and we could have signed more of them.

 

[WorkingtonBlade]

Wilder uses Irish and British players because he is running on a tight budget. Prem budgets allow for a wider net (or if you are bankrolled like Wolves were) because they can fund the array of translators and admin staff required to facilitate foreign players being at a club.
It's a different scale of operations.
Don't forget where we have been for the last 8 years. Other clubs may already have this structure in place

I’m not sure. Certainly McCabe has made comments to the effect that Wilder prefers British and Irish players (as does McCabe). I didn’t get the impression that was to do with a lack of translators at the club. Other clubs with small budgets have foreign players (as have we, in the past). A lot of foreign players speak English in any case.

 

[BladeFisher]

Simply signing a winger or two would've given us a plan B, and we could have easily done that. We have players who can be part of a plan A or B and we could have signed more of them.

Is/(was) Johnson not a winger?

 

[Ricky]

Is/(was) Johnson not a winger?

He is, but he's the only one at the club and doesn't seem to be of the required standard. Not that he's been given the chance to prove otherwise. Wilder doesn't seem to trust players like him.

It's a challenge for us to sign good wingers due to the primary system not accommodating them. So what we need to do, as I said in August, is to sign someone to compete with Duffy who can also play out wide. That way they wouldn't automatically just be backup like Johnson is. We had this with Brooks. The loss of a wide option was another problem with selling him.

 

[BushBlade]

Can Norwood, Duffy and most of the attacking players not play the Wilder system then?

It's tripe in your opinion. I don't post stuff with no basis. For example, about Wilder's possible limitations....

One way of playing, never an effective plan B
Inability to change a game with subs or tactics
Recurring theme of being tactically outdone in the second half
Doesn't drop players early enough when they're out of form
Reluctance to sign and work with foreigners
Old school approach, including an apparent 'train as you play' method which could contribute to lower energy in matches
Reluctance to use and promote youth

Even considering budgetary disadvantages, I feel Wilder has started to make plenty of mistakes. Previously I thought sky was the limit for him but time always exposes any weaknesses. I have no doubt he can get a team to the PL, but I'm not sure the PL will ultimately be his level.


By the way, I'll concede you were right about Pogba. I don't care if he's won the World Cup. He's a right cunt.

A lot of those weren’t issues in L1 when we had a better budget than most of our rivals. No one was saying he was tactically lacking or didn’t have a plan B. He often made effective subs and tactical changes. I suspect that if he was managing West Brom, his subs and tactics would be far more effective as he’d have better players to bring on and change it around. He could bring Gayle on, rather than Washington, for example.

And you could pick any manager and, providing you know enough about them, list faults and weaknesses. No one’s perfect, they’re just people. If you expect people to be like robots, predictable and infallible, you’ll always get let down.

 

[Ricky]

A lot of those weren’t issues in L1 when we had a better budget than most of our rivals. No one was saying he was tactically lacking or didn’t have a plan B. He often made effective subs and tactical changes. I suspect that if he was managing West Brom, his subs and tactics would be far more effective as he’d have better players to bring on and change it around. He could bring Gayle on, rather than Washington, for example.

And you could pick any manager and, providing you know enough about them, list faults and weaknesses. No one’s perfect, they’re just people. If you expect people to be like robots, predictable and infallible, you’ll always get let down.

Yes, it seems to have turned 180 with the in game changes. He truly had the midas touch in L1. That probably had more to do with us being superior to the rest and wearing teams down, but I also feel the opposition managers are a big factor. They're smarter at this level, and even taking budget/quality of players out of it, I think they get the better of him as often as he gets the better of them.

 

[BushBlade]

Yes, it seems to have turned 180 with the in game changes. He truly had the midas touch in L1. That probably had more to do with us being superior to the rest and wearing teams down, but I also feel the opposition managers are a big factor. They're smarter at this level, and even taking budget/quality of players out of it, I think they get the better of him as often as he gets the better of them.

Yeah, until he’s actually given a big budget, we can only speculate. He could be another Warnock; not much better with money than he is without it.

It’s like yesterday, did Villa lose because Bielsa outthought Smith, or did they lose because they’ve got a poor defence, one that Smith inherited and hasn’t had a window to address it? And could Bielsa have turned it round if his only options were Washington, Lundstram, Johnson or a partially fit Coutts?

And who does Clarke remind you of?