Wilder an alternative view

[Pollingtonblade]

There isn’t a thread that goes by on here where it is repeatedly said that Wilder will leave because of the lack of ambition of the board. It’s been said that often it’s pretty much accepted as fact on here. Just a couple of points.

A) Wilder has happily signed 2 contract extensions with us, presumably knowing what budget he his working with

B) is on record as saying he’s happy with what he has to work with

C) no one has approached Mcabe/Prince for Wilders services.

D) Wilder has never indicated he’ll leave because of his bosses, yes he’s expressed he’d like the ownership issue resolved.

 

[Harry's Game]

If the ownership is finally resolved in May I think he may well stay.

If, as is likely, whoever loses launches an appeal which would drag it on another 9 to 12 months I would not be surprised to see him quit in frustration.

I wouldn’t blame him either.

 

[Ricky]

E) Wilder has far from proved he's above Championship level.

 

[zablade]

E) Wilder has far from proved he's above Championship level.

Well yeah, neither has Frank Lampard or Dennis Smith.. bit tricky to prove yourself at any level until you have managed there.

I think one of the parachute payment sides is the most likely to come in for him, Stoke or Southampton if they come down.

 

[Harry's Game]

I think one of the parachute payment sides is the most likely to come in for him, Stoke or Southampton if they come down.

This.

 

[Ricky]

Well yeah, neither has Frank Lampard or Dennis Smith.. bit tricky to prove yourself at any level until you have managed there.

I think one of the parachute payment sides is the most likely to come in for him, Stoke or Southampton if they come down.

I think he's currently looking like the Championship may be his limit, regardless of budget or whatever. But he is undoubtedly good at this level and I agree the richer Championship clubs are likely suitors. West Brom would seem a good fit.

 

[zablade]

I think he's currently looking like the Championship may be his limit, regardless of budget or whatever. But he is undoubtedly good at this level and I agree the richer Championship clubs are likely suitors. West Brom would seem a good fit.

I think WBA might go up top two this season or I would have included them amongst the parachute payment sides.

 

[Fanny magnet]

I think a relegated prem club might be an option
It they will have a lot of questions and doubts about his ability to work with and coach the top players at this level

His style of play would probably be an advantage but when you're looking to bounce straight back up or face financial ruin I'm not sure how much of an advantage

 

[Kenilworth]

I think he's currently looking like the Championship may be his limit

Bollocks.

 

[Bill Johnson]

Well yeah, neither has Frank Lampard or Dennis Smith.. bit tricky to prove yourself at any level until you have managed there.

I think one of the parachute payment sides is the most likely to come in for him, Stoke or Southampton if they come down.

Thought Stoke had come down.

 

[Kenilworth]

I think a relegated prem club might be an option
It they will have a lot of questions and doubts about his ability to work with and coach the top players at this level

His style of play would probably be an advantage but when you're looking to bounce straight back up or face financial ruin I'm not sure how much of an advantage

Not just a style of play.
To be part of the Wilder/Knill model players have to have:
1. Ability
2. Athleticism
3. (Key) the right attitude

You won't find a lot of players with all three attributes in relegated sides.

 

[zablade]

Thought Stoke had come down.

I was Referring to Southampton

 

[Bill Johnson]

I was Referring to Southampton

Ah. I'll call off the forum pedant monitoring unit.

 

[davidblade]

Let us all hope that McCabe and the Prince never regret letting Wilder have his chance with any of these other clubs

 

[Ricky]

Not just a style of play.
To be part of the Wilder/Knill model players have to have:
1. Ability
2. Athleticism
3. (Key) the right attitude

You won't find a lot of players with all three attributes in relegated sides.

Now that's bollocks!

Athleticism's not a requirement at all. We barely have any pace in the squad. Look at our midfield.

Most relegated sides will have more players with those 3 attributes than we do. Not all sides get relegated because they have the wrong attitude. What if Huddersfield, Cardiff or Burnley came down? That would mainly just be due to a lack of quality. But they'd still be good in the Championship and in any case Wilder could make big changes to their squad.

 

[nopigfansintown]

There isn’t a thread that goes by on here where it is repeatedly said that Wilder will leave because of the lack of ambition of the board. It’s been said that often it’s pretty much accepted as fact on here. Just a couple of points.

A) Wilder has happily signed 2 contract extensions with us, presumably knowing what budget he his working with

B) is on record as saying he’s happy with what he has to work with

C) no one has approached Mcabe/Prince for Wilders services.

D) Wilder has never indicated he’ll leave because of his bosses, yes he’s expressed he’d like the ownership issue resolved.

Wilder stated that he had a contract on the table last Christmas, and he wouldn't sign it until he got the assurances he needed in the off season. For me that indicates that there was a period in which he seriously considered leaving.Some of his interviews around this period were also very revealing. It would be interesting to see what promises he was given for this season, and whether the board have lived up to them..Here are the CEO's words on 9th November re January: "The January transfer window is also on the agenda and discussions have already started around our plans to strengthen the squad for the second half of the season. Both owners are united in their vision and determination to return this football club to the Premier League, where it belongs".
Wilder's already making noises that he's not completely happy with the January transfer process: “Concentrating on loans takes us down a different route. I would rather go on the longer term view – the club knows that – but we have to get the right player".
It'd be interesting to know if he's been given post litgation business plans by the two owners to keep him sweet? Somehow I doubt it.

 

[LJBlade]

If the ownership is finally resolved in May I think he may well stay.

If, as is likely, whoever loses launches an appeal which would drag it on another 9 to 12 months I would not be surprised to see him quit in frustration.

I wouldn’t blame him either.

Frustration at what? He knows the situation, better than we do, and he was happy to sign a new contract knowing it.

 

[Tom Bott]

it is repeatedly said that Wilder will leave because of the lack of ambition of the board. It’s been said that often it’s pretty much accepted as fact on here

In the same way that Neil Warnock was going to leave in his 7 years with us before promotion.

Has anyone asked Chris or it is it just forum rumour ?

Some still think the earth is flat.

 

[WorkingtonBlade]

I think we also shouldn’t under-estimate the significance of Wilder’s preference for UK-born players.

Any Premiership team - or any team with money in the Championship - is going to have quite a few foreign players, and they’re not likely to relish the idea of going through the upheaval of changing that to suit a particular manager. They’re more likely to choose a manager who can fit in with their existing set-up.

Wilder will get offers, but whether he’ll get offers from clubs who can give him significantly greater resources than United, I’m not so sure.

 

[LenTednTony]

Well yeah, neither has Frank Lampard or Dennis Smith.. bit tricky to prove yourself at any level until you have managed there.

I think one of the parachute payment sides is the most likely to come in for him, Stoke or Southampton if they come down.

Stoke? Meh. Southampton? May be a battle royale to keep him.

 

[Danny_Blade]

Not just a style of play.
To be part of the Wilder/Knill model players have to have:
1. Ability
2. Athleticism
3. (Key) the right attitude

You won't find a lot of players with all three attributes in relegated sides.

It wouldn't matter that much, he'd have a parachute payment budget to rectify what attributes they may lack which is an astronomical amount of money more than United will ever have.

In any case I truly don't know whether CW & AK would leave United, none of us do until a resolution or clear direction is announced.

 

[DronnieBlade]

If I was in a position to buy the club, inject funds for new players, and consider contracts, Wilder and Knill would be the first I would wish to nail down to longer deals.

As we ALL should be more than aware of, the grass isn’t always greener !!!!

It would be a gamble to do this, especially if significantly increased budgets become available as Wilder has never had significant resources at any point in his career.

Big money players often have egos. Could these be managed well and not impact in squad harmony ? How would existing players feel ?

It’s not an easy transition to the so called next level !!

UTB

 

[LenTednTony]

Would any of the prima dona type prem and ex prem players buy into the discipline that CW/AK meter out? In Duffys interview he said something like if you are a minute late irrespective of the reason, you get fined! Irrespective! So, gaffer, there was this train that had crashed off the rails and dragged 18 trees with it into the road and it happened right in front of us. We rescued the driver, and four cows that were tangled in the trees. Sorry we are 3 mins late. Oh well done lads. Proud of you. FINED FOR BEING LATE!

 

[crucialkneeligaman]

I think he's currently looking like the Championship may be his limit, regardless of budget or whatever. But he is undoubtedly good at this level and I agree the richer Championship clubs are likely suitors. West Brom would seem a good fit.

Can't see why he couldn't do a similar job to the lad at Bournemouth Ricky.

 

[blade too long]

Think we are good enough as we are to stay within the play off spots
yes weve lost to a few top sides , but thatll even out when we get the all important clanger or deflection in our favour
When Wilder gets in 2 maybe 3 more we could push for an automatic if they fit in as can see norwich and leeds fading a bit
norwich cant keep winning games in the 96th minute, they let in as many as we do and everyone loves to beat leeds

Wilder wont leave unless provoked as its his dream job

If McCabe comes out as sole owner he wouldnt dare dislodge him
pretty sure the prince is savvy enough to ropck the boat with Chris too

 

[Carlton Blade]

I think he's currently looking like the Championship may be his limit, regardless of budget or whatever. But he is undoubtedly good at this level and I agree the richer Championship clubs are likely suitors. West Brom would seem a good fit.

He needs to improve his in game adjustments. We get nullified at half time a fair amount.

But he's doing this with a limited resource pool. If we had a deeper and more versatile squad he may well prove that he's more than capable of changing things up

 

[KoppedOff]

The only way he’ll manage in the PL is if he takes a team there himself.

From an outsiders POV, he’s an excellent lower league manager (3rd tier and below) with an outstanding record down there.

Above that, he’s - so far- proving to be a “decent” Championship manager. The style we play is attracting admirers without doubt.

So; great in lower leagues; decent in the Championship; plays nice, entertaining football. All this done on a comparatively low budget. Sean O Driscolls Doncaster anyone? Nobody from the Premier League came in for him, did they? He was a dour, introverted Brummie with an accent. He didnt fit the image/fashion/glitz of the Premier League. Neither does CW- he’s not dour or introverted, but he does speak his mind, he can rub people up the wrong way and he’s also got an unfashionable accent.

I hate to say it, because WE know what a stunning job he’s done and because WE know the budget and constraints he’s done it under and remember the years before he arrived, but... its worth comparing his situation to Warnock. Again, great lower league record- again achieves on a budget. Is ahead of CW in terms of being up a level regarding Championship record and promotions from it, but CW is obviously younger and just starting that phase.

Point being, despite his successes in the Championship; promotions, rescuing teams from the edge of oblivion, etc no PL side have ever appointed him. Not one side no matter how dire their situation has ever gambled on him. He’s only managed there when he’s got sides there himself.

So who should we worry about? Current PL clubs? Nah. Relegated sides with whacking parachute transfer kitties? Possibly- but would they “gamble” on a “decent” Championship manager? They want to bounce straight back; if they can afford a proven top tier promotion winner or big name, they’ll go that route. Theres only 3 sides coming down and they’ll always be a Pulis or a Warnock available.

The threat for me, would be a big side struggling at the lower end of the Championship who still have a pile of money, but haven’t a clue how to use it at this level. Get CW in to pull them out of the mire, then see what he can do. If Southampton come down, start badly and in November, they sack whichever mercenery they appoint in the summer, THEN I’d be worried.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

I suspect that CW, although not rolling in it, has enjoyed the last couple of seasons pay wise, and allowed him and his family a decent standard of living. That coupled with managing the team he supports and the relative success we've had has kept him happy. But I think you'd be naive to think that last season's Sunderland rumours just popped out of the ether, all accidentally like.

I think CW is ambitious and eager to test himself at the highest level; if that's with us, perfect. But we had a chance last season and we fell away, and we're doing the same again this season.

There must come a point, at 51 yrs of age, were CW tries his luck elsewhere. More than 1/2 the prem managers are either the same age or younger than him, and few get to, let alone go past 60. He probably has a window of opportunity of 2 to 3 yrs.

As has been mentioned on other threads, our recent failure has been due to poor/lack of recruitment. Last season we didn't have the resources to bring in an adequate Coutts replacement, and it cost us (how much is open to debate) and someone to take the strain of BS & LC. This season it appears that we haven't got the resources to bring in a top championship forward (last season's exertions may have hindered LC) and attacking midfielder to either keep us in the top 6/push us up to the top 2. I fear we'll trail off between January and May, with games mirroring the 'competitive for 45mins, then falling just short' pattern, causing a period of reflection by CW. He'll look at the aged squad, and seek assurances, and I doubt he'll get them.

If either Huddersfield or Burnley got relegated he'd be a good fit a both clubs, just as he'd be a good fit at Derby if FL left, and they'd happily quadruple his salary and give him the backing.

 

[BushBlade]

Can't see why he couldn't do a similar job to the lad at Bournemouth Ricky.

Isn’t Ricky saying ‘getting a championship job’ is his current limit? Which it is. If you ignore the outlier in Swansea going for Carloss how many PL clubs appoint a manager from the championship? The only slight possibility might be if Dyche went somewhere like Leicester.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

I think he's currently looking like the Championship may be his limit, regardless of budget or whatever. But he is undoubtedly good at this level and I agree the richer Championship clubs are likely suitors. West Brom would seem a good fit.

He'd be the hottest property in the second division if he had a 25 goal centre forward next to Billy.

Twat at scouse land says £75M man is the best c/h in the world, imagine what Wilder would do with him?

Give Wilder the Man C or Liverpool squads and he'd be out of sight.

Just imagine Man C's front line with our style?



Edit:

Foxy,Foxy,

Please delete this in case Chris reads it.