Width killing us

[ancientblade]

We have nothing offensively down the left … that’s why I was gutted we didn’t bag Mikey Johnson ( WBA ) .. on the right Gilchrist an able centre back converted to full back but isn’t great going forward . We get away with outside the the better sides but been exposed against Leeds , Boro , Burnley & Sunderland

yes mikey johnson would have been a great signing for us hes so much better than rak-saki

 

[SwitchBLADE Smiles]

Completely agree on the width subject. I think playing Gilchrist makes us more unbalanced on this front as he is significantly more defensive minded - which seems to be quite detrimental to our overall play. Not his fault at all, but I’d be half tempted to move him into more of a holding midfield role & look to bring in an actual right wing back in January.

 

[Bell4]

Hamer is the least of our issues. Today he had the ball more than anyone. I like him out wide as he gets the ball a lot more and drifts inside.

It’s for the games we want to mix it up we don’t have the option.

If Hamer plays like he did yesterday in the next few games until reinforcements are brought in - I would suggest that’s a big worry

 

[FTPE]

Completely agree on the width subject. I think playing Gilchrist makes us more unbalanced on this front as he is significantly more defensive minded - which seems to be quite detrimental to our overall play. Not his fault at all, but I’d be half tempted to move him into more of a holding midfield role & look to bring in an actual right wing back in January.

Hard one though isn't it? Because while it's throwing the balance out we've almost got 3 centerbacks when defending set pieces. It's probably one of the reasons we're so solid at the back. It's not even a Bogle/Baldock comparison this season though, Alfie is polar opposite to Burrows. Our defensive wingbacks should be Alfie/RND and our attacking ones should be Seriki/Burrows. The lack of wingers puts added pressure onto our left and right backs as well.

 

[BalticBlade]

JUST HIT IT LONG UP TO BIG KIEFFER!

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Hamer is the least of our issues. Today he had the ball more than anyone. I like him out wide as he gets the ball a lot more and drifts inside.

It’s for the games we want to mix it up we don’t have the option.

But we do need someone bit more pro-active to support the big man up front. Brewster doesn’t have the footballing brain and O’Hare is a bit of a lightweight. I also like Hamer out wide too, but can also understand people wanting to see him in a more central role supporting the striker.

 

[SwitchBLADE Smiles]

Hard one though isn't it? Because while it's throwing the balance out we've almost got 3 centerbacks when defending set pieces. It's probably one of the reasons we're so solid at the back. It's not even a Bogle/Baldock comparison this season though, Alfie is polar opposite to Burrows. Our defensive wingbacks should be Alfie/RND and our attacking ones should be Seriki/Burrows. The lack of wingers puts added pressure onto our left and right backs as well.

Absolutely. I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with playing Gilchrist as a right back - he’s a perfectly capable one, but doing so definitely holds us back when it comes to attacking.

We need to find a way to get JRS + another threat down the right as we’re too easy to defend against - overload JRS and jump on Burrows / Hamer as soon as we go down the left. Having another option on the right should open up more attacking options for us and stretch opposition defences. We also need to seriously speed up our attacks & get defenders running back towards their own goal.

 

[FTPE]

But we do need someone bit more pro-active to support the big man up front. Brewster doesn’t have the footballing brain and O’Hare is a bit of a lightweight. I also like Hamer out wide too, but can also understand people wanting to see him in a more central role supporting the striker.

Gus is our game changer. He's our best creative player by a mile, and he's doing a fantastic job. But, is he giving Moore any service or support? Hamers assists would suit Campbell or even Brewster more, I just mean (and it's brilliant to create through the middle) the wider players need to use the space, get chalk on their boots and play triangles, cutbacks and whip balls into their box. Just as Burnley did for their first.

 

[robbiez666]

Absolutely. I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with playing Gilchrist as a right back - he’s a perfectly capable one, but doing so definitely holds us back when it comes to attacking.

We need to find a way to get JRS + another threat down the right as we’re too easy to defend against - overload JRS and jump on Burrows / Hamer as soon as we go down the left. Having another option on the right should open up more attacking options for us and stretch opposition defences. We also need to seriously speed up our attacks & get defenders running back towards their own goal.

We need JRS to go down the line regularly and stop automatically cutting in. When he does we're much more dangerous. He's not going to have a top career until he sorts that out If he's not going to defend then it makes sense to have a defensive RB. I don't think we need to overload both sides. Just get them one on one. We need to move the ball quickly to him when we turnover possession and he needs to attack the fullback. He seems to want to slow the game down which means we lose our impetus. That means we need someone else who gets in the box.

 

[Stanthemanfan]

Would love to get D. Brooks back, he can't get into the Bournemouth side and everytime I see him he, s in the game

 

[TJ blade]

JUST HIT IT LONG UP TO BIG KIEFFER!

We did and that didn't work as well

 

[Nagima]

While getting results we felt that we were not fluid in how we play and we were hoping that we would gel. In my opinion we have been getting away with a few things that were exposed by Burnley.

1. Playing 4 at the back is fine but we are putting too much emphasis on full backs for attacking. Which leaves a wider gap between souttar and Robinson. and making it difficult to pick up runners on the counter. Souza has been vital in getting back and tackling.

2. We tend to play a bit too high a line. Robinson and Souttar get caught out by a forward taking the ball at feet and turning.

3. Brewster shouldn't be in the 10 spot. He did OK but we need creativity in that role. Hamer would be my choice for there. With O'Hare as back up from the bench. Hamer with Peck and Davies behind would allow us to attack more centrally.

4. On the right and left Raki Sayki Brooks McCallum and a new signing. Should be the options to pick from.

5. Our plan B seems to be changing to a back 3 and replacing Burrows and Gilchrist.
Which is very predictable but does not really alter our attacking play.

6. Moore up top until Campbell is fit with Brewster coming on as a sub.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

He wouldn't be ready for the Premier League but Kwame Poku at Peterborough could be a great signing for us on the right wing. He's out of contract in the summer so January is the time to pounce.

Ephrom Mason-Clark would be another great signing from the wing from Coventry.

 

[Keen Blade]

Absolutely. I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with playing Gilchrist as a right back - he’s a perfectly capable one, but doing so definitely holds us back when it comes to attacking.

We need to find a way to get JRS + another threat down the right as we’re too easy to defend against - overload JRS and jump on Burrows / Hamer as soon as we go down the left. Having another option on the right should open up more attacking options for us and stretch opposition defences. We also need to seriously speed up our attacks & get defenders running back towards their own goal.

Play ball to flanks which turn the oppo defenders - eg balls inside the oppo FBs

 

[Burls]

Because the full backs now go on the outside. The full backs go in and around as when your out on the touch line you only have a crossing option.

When Hamer / JRS come inside they are their stronger foot looking towards the goal. It’s how modern football has been for a few years now. But we as supporters just haven’t seen a team with wingers for many a year.

 

[MiserableBlader]

I dont get involved with tactical conversations too often as a lot of it goes over my head and seems to over complicate what I believe is still a relatively simple game. Today however, if you'll allow me to self indulge a little, I'd like to point out a glaring fault we appear to have. Our width.
If I was an opposition manager I'd keep narrow out of possession, keep men behind the ball, stay tight and out of possession and stretch as wide as the pitch will go.
Our only threat from a wing is Burrows, technically excellent at delivering a ball, but not only is he not a winger, but he's not even a wingback. A flat back 4 means not only do the left and right backs get forward a lot less, but they're quite late to the party. Alfie is a solid defender and is one of the main reasons our defence has done so well, but as far as width or attack goes he struggles. Gus, inverted winger (at best) JRS doesn't go wide and hardly ever crosses the ball. Brewster, I'm not sure what we want his new role to be but it certainly isn't a winger. COH is really growing on me but he isn't an outlet like wingers need to be.

We're finally decent through the centre, which is probably harder to do, but not having the option of width, triangles, overlaps is making us predictable (no matter how much Wilder praisers our patience when we knock it aroun the back line). When we lost Blaster a pretty clue up poster on here claimed that he was our only player that can attack through the middle, but while he might have been one of the stronger ones I do think Gus, Davies, O'Hare, Vinnie and now Peck can all unlock a defence through the middle. The problem is, it's overcrowded and easy to defend when that's our plan A, B and C.
Now I'm not saying Wilder only has one style/plan, he's actually playing to our strengths, but looking at the squad we lack a Paul Devlin, Peter Ndlovu or more recently a Michael Tongue. Today (and this is not disrespect to the players) he only had our second choice left back, a low confidence Brooks, a centre half and a teenage striker to come on and change things.

It's not all doom, not only will Wilder see this but he'll also despair at the service Moore is currently getting, its also a week before the window opens.
My actual concern is the targets we'll go after. The only winger I've seen mentioned is BBD. He's big, strong, direct and a fan favourite, but isn't that just another inverted winger/striker like Campbell and the midfield 3?

I've had this locked and loaded since 60min into the game, but now our spine seems to be depleted too we need reinforcements everywhere. I just hope one of them is a chalk on his boots, fast, tricky, game changing winger.

Agree? Or is that just an off day?

I say this 9 games out of 10 using the four words of the age old wisdom
ATTACK WIDE, DEFEND NARROW.
I could elaborate but will not here using players like Lee Dixon and martin Keown plus forwards
Ironically the weks I don't hav to say it are when we hav a weakened (by injury not Wilder) as Norwich.
for some reason fill in mclellan? all left foot CAN be allowed to play in his best/natural position on the left unlike much better players Jesus and Brookes who hav to play 'disabled' on the right
As star number 10 McAtee was forced (and ultimately destroyed hence no loan this season) by Wilder last sason.
We hav playrs who can play wide when we hav two strikers fit.
Wilder CHOOSES not to do that.
WILDER is th problem.
WILDER and all those supporting this anti football all over the pitch (not just the wings) have to GO.
Simples.
'Football is a simple game complicated by people who should know better' - Bill Shankly creator of the Livrpool dynasty.
Must us a keyboard with a reliable E key.

 

[Silent Blade]

I say this 9 games out of 10 using the four words of the age old wisdom
ATTACK WIDE, DEFEND NARROW.
I could elaborate but will not here using players like Lee Dixon and martin Keown plus forwards
Ironically the weks I don't hav to say it are when we hav a weakened (by injury not Wilder) as Norwich.
for some reason fill in mclellan? all left foot CAN be allowed to play in his best/natural position on the left unlike much better players Jesus and Brookes who hav to play 'disabled' on the right
As star number 10 McAtee was forced (and ultimately destroyed hence no loan this season) by Wilder last sason.
We hav playrs who can play wide when we hav two strikers fit.
Wilder CHOOSES not to do that.
WILDER is th problem.
WILDER and all those supporting this anti football all over the pitch (not just the wings) have to GO.
Simples.
'Football is a simple game complicated by people who should know better' - Bill Shankly creator of the Livrpool dynasty.
Must us a keyboard with a reliable E key.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

Burrows gets protection from Hamer, who will track back and defend (and get a yellow card for it), whilst Gilchrist gets no protection from Rak-Sakyi, Brooks or Brewster but does when O'Hare has played there.

Coincidence that teams are constantly targetting our right side successfully?

 

[Nobrainblade]

Burrows gets protection from Hamer, who will track back and defend (and get a yellow card for it), whilst Gilchrist gets no protection from Rak-Sakyi, Brooks or Brewster but does when O'Hare has played there.

Coincidence that teams are constantly targetting our right side successfully?

We have acquired more points this season then any other team in any division
We must be doing something right
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it
Certainly by copying teams less successful than us

 

[robbiez666]

We have acquired more points this season then any other team in any division
We must be doing something right
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it
Certainly by copying teams less successful than us

You're obviously correct, but there's a good argument for more of a plan b. Both Swansea (terrible defensively) and Hull (terribly defensively) set up in a way to nullify the threat from our wide players cutting inside and it worked for both. Seriki changed the Swansea game because he was prepared to drive to the byline and they couldn't deal with it.

 

[Norwood's 6 iron]

I agree. This formation is designed for wingers and we don't have any other than Rak-Sakyi who refuses to stay out wide and is ineffective as a result. We badly need a winger for each side coming in or the performances will remain disjointed and inconsistent.

So Friday night we played with two widemen, Diaz and Brooks, why didn't Wilder try switching them. Teams are setting up to defend against our players cutting inside everytime. It makes it too easy to defend against, we need to make defenders worry about which way the winger is going to take them on.
I was disappointed with Diaz as all he wanted to do was cutback inside.
There is no creative thinking, if after 20 minutes it's not working swop them about.
He regularly moves O'hare and Hamer about but our wide players just stay where they are.
Playing a high ball into the box from the corner of the 18yard box is lazy football, even worse when it is left footed from the righthand side or vise a versa.

 

[bornablade]

Before this season is there any evidence that Wilder has played with wingers before? And if so was it successful?