Why do Managers without Blades link fail at the lane

[jono_t2000]

I’m only going to talk about the last 25 years, since Adrian Heath left and Warnock began, for two reasons: I was 9 when Warnock took over, and nobody wants me writing the sequel to War & Peace

But is this all just coincidence. the wrong person at the wrong time, or is there something deeper at Sheffield United? A culture where managers from outside are almost bound to fail?

I didn't realise how much it really annoyed me on Friday night, when Selles’ sacking felt inevitable. We’ve seen some genuinely good managers + Bryan Robson. who’ve succeeded elsewhere but struggled, often badly, at the Lane:

- Nigel Clough was big name, for the job he did at burton. but underachieved in the league. but probably still the best of the bunch, because of what he did in the cups

- Bryan Robson very successful at boro & 1st manager to keep a team up in premier league despite being bottom on christmas day

- Jokanović took Watford & Fulham to premier league but lasted 3 months here

- If i remember speed was doing great things at wales, that was felt even after his passing & yet was terrible here.

- Adkins brilliant at scunthorpe & back to back promotions with Southampton. yet took us to our worst league finish in 34 years

- Selles took Reading to the L1 playoffs last season despite the club on the brink of bankruptcy. lasted 6 games

So what didn’t these outsiders do that Warnock, Wilder, or Hecky did manage (i say Hecky as maybe harsh but he was wilder under a different name as he used Wilder’s players & his system), you probably have to go back to Dave Bassett in the early 90s for the last outsider who really worked.

So is it just bad luck? because for all the nuno talk. is there something about Sheffield United that outsiders simply can’t crack in these last 20-25 years?

Until we set up a proper structure at the top with a DoF, it will never change imho.

There's a disconnect from board to the manager that's missing a key middleman

 

[CrookesBlade]

It’s all more coincidence than anything in my opinion.

Away from Wilder, who I think it’s hard to argue has got more from himself and the players than maybe he otherwise would somewhere else, there are very good reasons for who has succeeded and who has failed.

Warnock’s Bladey Blade credentials never did him much good, and often counted against him. He split the fan base down the middle at the time. “Acts like a fan rather than a manager” was a common refrain. Many didn’t like the football either.

He ended up succeeding because he was a very good manager at Championship level and was given time to build a side.

Hecky did well because he was well placed within the club having worked with the players previously, and particularly Ndiaye. He also had a very good squad at his disposal and a coaching staff with reams of experience.

Of the others who had an association with the club prior to taking over their Bladey Bladeness got them through the door but didn’t do much else to help them.

Blackwell did well initially because he had a good squad to work with and was able to get them organised and playing pragmatic football. The fans soon turned though as the football was horrific and the team was steadily sold from under him.

Micky Adams was a disaster. He was years past his best and couldn’t get anything from a woeful squad with no investment.

Gary Speed was his predecessor but faired little better with the thin gruel available. Played some nice football at times but his move to the Wales job seemed to suit all parties.

Of the non Bladey managers Wilson and Clough were the best of the bunch.

Wilson had us playing superb football and would have taken us up if it wasn’t for the freakish set of events that conspired against him that season. Ultimately though cloth cutter in chief McCabe did what he did best and come the end of his second season he had very little to work with squad wise.

Clough galvanised the team and support initially almost as much as any Blade has but was let down by a recruitment policy based on collecting right backs from the Scottish leagues.

Jokanovic needed money to spend which was never made available and was opposed to playing the only formation the squad was seemingly able to manage.

Selles is a coach not a manager, probably still a good one but not equipped to work within our current set up, and seemingly with no motivational skills.

Robson was pissed all the time.

Adkins had lost whatever he had as evidenced by his time at Reading and his post Blades career.

David Weir was just doing work experience essentially.

 

[Booker4]

Bassett has no connection to United and succeeded. Same with Hecky who played for Wednesday. Wilson did well, Clough decent in first season.

I don't think it's true that only managers with connections to the club succeed. But it does help at any club.

I also think it's harsh on Wilder to say he hasn't done as well elsewhere, as some say. He did brilliantly at Northampton, decent at Oxford and Halifax. Brilliant at Alfreton. He did well at Boro for months until near the end of the first season which carried in into the next season.

Watford was only a few months and he took over an underachieving squad with players who weren't likely to be inspired by Wilder coming in.

If we hadn't gone for Wilder I do think, ironically, Rohl would have done well but it seems I'm in the minority here and I'm not saying Rohl was the best choice. Had he started slowly though the fans would have not been patient with him.

 

[SB_90]

Hard to give much credibility to a point that only stands up if you ignore all examples that disprove it

im just asking the question. & you can saying im ignoring all examples but then not list the examples, im ignoring

admittedly i forgot about danny wilson when i wrote this

 

[SB_90]

I also think it's harsh on Wilder to say he hasn't done as well elsewhere, as some say. He did brilliantly at Northampton, decent at Oxford and Halifax. Brilliant at Alfreton. He did well at Boro for months until near the end of the first season which carried in into the next season.

if it came across apologies. im purely on united & what they did with us

wilder did work miracles at Northampton & oxford. getting promotions

 

[Bladedog]

It’s all more coincidence than anything in my opinion.

Away from Wilder, who I think it’s hard to argue has got more from himself and the players than maybe he otherwise would somewhere else, there are very good reasons for who has succeeded and who has failed.

Warnock’s Bladey Blade credentials never did him much good, and often counted against him. He split the fan base down the middle at the time. “Acts like a fan rather than a manager” was a common refrain. Many didn’t like the football either.

He ended up succeeding because he was a very good manager at Championship level and was given time to build a side.

Hecky did well because he was well placed within the club having worked with the players previously, and particularly Ndiaye. He also had a very good squad at his disposal and a coaching staff with reams of experience.

Of the others who had an association with the club prior to taking over their Bladey Bladeness got them through the door but didn’t do much else to help them.

Blackwell did well initially because he had a good squad to work with and was able to get them organised and playing pragmatic football. The fans soon turned though as the football was horrific and the team was steadily sold from under him.

Micky Adams was a disaster. He was years past his best and couldn’t get anything from a woeful squad with no investment.

Gary Speed was his predecessor but faired little better with the thin gruel available. Played some nice football at times but his move to the Wales job seemed to suit all parties.

Of the non Bladey managers Wilson and Clough were the best of the bunch.

Wilson had us playing superb football and would have taken us up if it wasn’t for the freakish set of events that conspired against him that season. Ultimately though cloth cutter in chief McCabe did what he did best and come the end of his second season he had very little to work with squad wise.

Clough galvanised the team and support initially almost as much as any Blade has but was let down by a recruitment policy based on collecting right backs from the Scottish leagues.

Jokanovic needed money to spend which was never made available and was opposed to playing the only formation the squad was seemingly able to manage.

Selles is a coach not a manager, probably still a good one but not equipped to work within our current set up, and seemingly with no motivational skills.

Robson was pissed all the time.

Adkins had lost whatever he had as evidenced by his time at Reading and his post Blades career.

David Weir was just doing work experience essentially.

Spackman was ok..but got shafted by the board..

 

[3Cheers4Ramirez]

Because too often they are poorly selected and not good managers

 

[bladeinspaceandtime]

Danny Wilson was the complete opposite of bladey blade and did well, would’ve probably got us promoted if not for Ched getting sent down.

Ched Evans would have been sold before the season started (to get him off the wage bill) if he hadn't had that court case hanging over him.

 

[Harry's Game]

After everything that’s gone on the last few days, if you are still watching Pinchy….

 

[Revolution]

Ched Evans would have been sold before the season started (to get him off the wage bill) if he hadn't had that court case hanging over him.

And he was also injured for the first month.

Same for Beattie in the summer of 2008.

 

[ATL Recs]

I’m only going to talk about the last 25 years, since Adrian Heath left and Warnock began, for two reasons: I was 9 when Warnock took over, and nobody wants me writing the sequel to War & Peace

But is this all just coincidence. the wrong person at the wrong time, or is there something deeper at Sheffield United? A culture where managers from outside are almost bound to fail?

I didn't realise how much it really annoyed me on Friday night, when Selles’ sacking felt inevitable. We’ve seen some genuinely good managers + Bryan Robson. who’ve succeeded elsewhere but struggled, often badly, at the Lane:

- Nigel Clough was big name, for the job he did at burton. but underachieved in the league. but probably still the best of the bunch, because of what he did in the cups

- Bryan Robson very successful at boro & 1st manager to keep a team up in premier league despite being bottom on christmas day

- Jokanović took Watford & Fulham to premier league but lasted 3 months here

- If i remember speed was doing great things at wales, that was felt even after his passing & yet was terrible here.

- Adkins brilliant at scunthorpe & back to back promotions with Southampton. yet took us to our worst league finish in 34 years

- Selles took Reading to the L1 playoffs last season despite the club on the brink of bankruptcy. lasted 6 games

So what didn’t these outsiders do that Warnock, Wilder, or Hecky did manage (i say Hecky as maybe harsh but he was wilder under a different name as he used Wilder’s players & his system), you probably have to go back to Dave Bassett in the early 90s for the last outsider who really worked.

So is it just bad luck? because for all the nuno talk. is there something about Sheffield United that outsiders simply can’t crack in these last 20-25 years?

All this and you’ve left out Danny Wilson who did well had some bad luck and was harshly treated by “bigger blade”

 

[ATL Recs]

Howard Kendall and Dave Bassett had no links to the club. Danny Wilson and Heckingbottom both played for Wednesday, Wilson even managed them.

We gonna start saying we prefer managers who played for/managed Wednesday over foreign managers now?

Ruben Selles didn’t fail because he’s Spanish or not a blade, he failed because of his shortcomings as a manager

Exactly he failed as he was a scratch your head in disbelief appointment

 

[Champagneblade]

Most managers without a Blades link in the last 29 years also happened to have very little to shout about on their managerial CV in general.
Kendall and Jokanovic probably had the best CVs.. Jokanovic wasn't backed financially to make the changes he wanted.

It's quite shocking the managers we've gone for when you list them all out. McCabe in particular seemed to have a real aversion for appointing people with any pedigree.

We could have appointed Eddie Howe when we went for Adams.

Just let that one sink in! Though he did poorly at Burnley.

Some managers just fit.

 

[Kev Gee]

We really do need a DOF who will be looking at the whole playing side of the football club as a whole. From the youngest team to the pros.

So if there's a change of manager, staff etc. then the long term planning isn't really affected.

 

[Shadota]

I don't think that the affinity of certain managers towards Sheffield United is a contributor towards whether they are successful or not, it's just a coincidence that a few have done well. Instead, I think it's more a case of us having hired managers who have a tactical approach which is well suited to the existing infrastructure and mentality of the club. While the managers who haven't had success, have tended to be the ones who are willing to upset the apple cart, so to speak.

Wilder made a drastic change to a back 3 in his first spell, but went about it in a very "Bladey" way - loads of blood and thunder, putting in the hard yards etc. While the likes of Slav, and now Selles, have tried to play in a way unlike what the club is used to. And we have not been in a position, when those managers have been appointed, to allow them to apply their philosophies thoroughly. Slav was out well before Christmas, Selles lasted 6 matches.

Danny Wilson wasn't a man with ties to us by any means, but he is a northern bloke, who had experience of managing other teams locally, and had a record of success. Even though the reaction to his arrival was vociferous, the type of manager Wilson is, makes sense logically for us to have gone after.

After what has happened to Selles, I'm worried that we're going to forever be stuck with the "pashun" gimmick, all because we, as a club and fanbase, are too impatient and too miserable to accept taking one step backwards, to make a drastic stride forwards.

 

[Booker4]

if it came across apologies. im purely on united & what they did with us

wilder did work miracles at Northampton & oxford. getting promotions

No need to apologise fella but fair play.

 

[wadblade]

So what link did Bassett have proir to joining us?

 

[Revolution]

I don't think that the affinity of certain managers towards Sheffield United is a contributor towards whether they are successful or not, it's just a coincidence that a few have done well. Instead, I think it's more a case of us having hired managers who have a tactical approach which is well suited to the existing infrastructure and mentality of the club. While the managers who haven't had success, have tended to be the ones who are willing to upset the apple cart, so to speak.

Wilder made a drastic change to a back 3 in his first spell, but went about it in a very "Bladey" way - loads of blood and thunder, putting in the hard yards etc. While the likes of Slav, and now Selles, have tried to play in a way unlike what the club is used to. And we have not been in a position, when those managers have been appointed, to allow them to apply their philosophies thoroughly. Slav was out well before Christmas, Selles lasted 6 matches.

Danny Wilson wasn't a man with ties to us by any means, but he is a northern bloke, who had experience of managing other teams locally, and had a record of success. Even though the reaction to his arrival was vociferous, the type of manager Wilson is, makes sense logically for us to have gone after.

After what has happened to Selles, I'm worried that we're going to forever be stuck with the "pashun" gimmick, all because we, as a club and fanbase, are too impatient and too miserable to accept taking one step backwards, to make a drastic stride forwards.

Is this “one step back” Relegation to League One?

 

[Torrix1889]

Micky Adams was a complete disaster, so the bladey blade manager isn’t a guarantee

To be fair he inherited an absolute shit-show...

 

[YES Blade]

To be fair he inherited an absolute shit-show...

100% we were definitely going to struggle regardless of who the manager was, but from memory it seemed to be better under Speed

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Almost every single manager ever "fails" at the end too. Some people swear blind Wilder failed when we had our best ever championship points tally. Some people dislike Warnock when the club before he came in and afterwards was completely transformed and we still see the benefits of that today.

 

[Need4speed]

I don't think this is unique to Sheffield United. Look at the managers Man United have had since Fergie - all successful elsewhere, look at the likes of Potter and Cooper successful at one club and failed everywhere since. Supporters want instant success and with social media they put pressure on owners to change quickly if things aren't working out. Do we really think Chris Wilder will get to the end of his contract. If we had gone up to the Premier League and kept him do we think he would have got to Christmas before being sacked?

 

[Dan Emery]

Was going to say Steve Bruce did ok with an 8th place finish but re-visiting the squad he had available, he should have finished top 6 or better!

 

[Revolution]

Was going to say Steve Bruce did ok with an 8th place finish but re-visiting the squad he had available, he should have finished top 6 or better!

We would have done had we not sold Holdsworth and Stuart before the transfer deadline. We were top 6 before that.

 

[SB_90]

All this and you’ve left out Danny Wilson who did well had some bad luck and was harshly treated by “bigger blade”

i realized why i left Danny wilson out because i was thinking of the many managers that been successful at other clubs & in some case multiple clubs. but had been awful with us. thats why left wilson & Weir out because they had no prior success that i could remember before they managed us.

 

[Dan Emery]

We would have done had we not sold Holdsworth and Stuart before the transfer deadline. We were top 6 before that.

Typical Utd. Love shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

[Brussblade]

I just think the expectations of fans and manager sometimes align more readily with local managers or ones that have been in the region. It is not a given

John Harris and Dave Bassett clearly got the club and did fantastic jobs.

 

[I should coco]

i realized why i left Danny wilson out because i was thinking of the many managers that been successful at other clubs & in some case multiple clubs. but had been awful with us. thats why left wilson & Weir out because they had no prior success that i could remember before they managed us.

Another odd understanding of 'success'.

Wilson got the Dingles promoted to the Prem, and Hartlepool promoted to L1.

I'd also make a pedantic argument, that spelling 'realise' with an s, shows success in the English language, rather than the one butchered by the colonialists.

 

[SB_90]

Wilson got the Dingles promoted to the Prem, and Hartlepool promoted to L1.

i didnt know he was the manager of those teams at the timing of writing. i only knew danny wilson managed Wednesday. & if you know hartlepool managers off the top of your head fair play to you

success. isn't that getting to a final or getting a team promoted. everything else is failure. nobody aim at the start of the season is to get to a play off final or semi final & lose. with the exception. of if youve taken a team like this seasons Wednesday to 6th place.

& lets not forget we were a huge club in L1. arguably the biggest team in L1 at the time. for me anything other than Top 2 was a failure for any manager we had in L1

 

[Berkshire Blade]

i didnt know he was the manager of those teams at the timing of writing. i only knew danny wilson managed Wednesday. & if you know hartlepool managers off the top of your head fair play to you

success. isn't that getting to a final or getting a team promoted. everything else is failure. nobody aim at the start of the season is to get to a play off final or semi final & lose. with the exception. of if youve taken a team like this seasons Wednesday to 6th place

I'd argue success isn't only ever promotion or trophies although that's obviously ideal but building at times. We were completely destroyed by the berge/Ndiaye sales season and had to rebuild. We did. We got 92 points and only two sides getting 100 points did for us. Let's say we best Sunderland in the final does that make the season a success when it's in your eyes now seen as a failure? It's that narrow a margin?