Why do Managers without Blades link fail at the lane

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SB_90

SB_90

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I’m only going to talk about the last 25 years, since Adrian Heath left and Warnock began, for two reasons: I was 9 when Warnock took over, and nobody wants me writing the sequel to War & Peace 😄

But is this all just coincidence. the wrong person at the wrong time, or is there something deeper at Sheffield United? A culture where managers from outside are almost bound to fail?

I didn't realise how much it really annoyed me on Friday night, when Selles’ sacking felt inevitable. We’ve seen some genuinely good managers + Bryan Robson. who’ve succeeded elsewhere but struggled, often badly, at the Lane:

- Nigel Clough was big name, for the job he did at burton. but underachieved in the league. but probably still the best of the bunch, because of what he did in the cups

- Bryan Robson very successful at boro & 1st manager to keep a team up in premier league despite being bottom on christmas day

- Jokanović took Watford & Fulham to premier league but lasted 3 months here

- If i remember speed was doing great things at wales, that was felt even after his passing & yet was terrible here.

- Adkins brilliant at scunthorpe & back to back promotions with Southampton. yet took us to our worst league finish in 34 years

- Selles took Reading to the L1 playoffs last season despite the club on the brink of bankruptcy. lasted 6 games

So what didn’t these outsiders do that Warnock, Wilder, or Hecky did manage (i say Hecky as maybe harsh but he was wilder under a different name as he used Wilder’s players & his system), you probably have to go back to Dave Bassett in the early 90s for the last outsider who really worked.

So is it just bad luck? because for all the nuno talk. is there something about Sheffield United that outsiders simply can’t crack in these last 20-25 years?
 

SB_90 said:
I’m only going to talk about the last 25 years, since Adrian Heath left and Warnock began, for two reasons: I was 9 when Warnock took over, and nobody wants me writing the sequel to War & Peace 😄

But is this all just coincidence. the wrong person at the wrong time, or is there something deeper at Sheffield United? A culture where managers from outside are almost bound to fail?

I didn't realise how much it really annoyed me on Friday night, when Selles’ sacking felt inevitable. We’ve seen some genuinely good managers + Bryan Robson. who’ve succeeded elsewhere but struggled, often badly, at the Lane:

- Nigel Clough was big name, for the job he did at burton. but underachieved in the league. but probably still the best of the bunch, because of what he did in the cups

- Bryan Robson very successful at boro & 1st manager to keep a team up in premier league despite being bottom on christmas day

- Jokanović took Watford & Fulham to premier league but lasted 3 months here

- If i remember speed was doing great things at wales, that was felt even after his passing & yet was terrible here.

- Adkins brilliant at scunthorpe & back to back promotions with Southampton. yet took us to our worst league finish in 34 years

- Selles took Reading to the L1 playoffs last season despite the club on the brink of bankruptcy. lasted 6 games

So what didn’t these outsiders do that Warnock, Wilder, or Hecky did manage (i say Hecky as maybe harsh but he was wilder under a different name as he used Wilder’s players & his system), you probably have to go back to Dave Bassett in the early 90s for the last outsider who really worked.

So is it just bad luck? because for all the nuno talk. is there something about Sheffield United that outsiders simply can’t crack in these last 20-25 years?
Click to expand...
It's really baffling tbh and I haven't an idea why. When people say 'why always a bladey blade manager' then you look at this and see why. Hecky did alright though.
 
Most managers without a Blades link in the last 29 years also happened to have very little to shout about on their managerial CV in general.
Kendall and Jokanovic probably had the best CVs.. Jokanovic wasn't backed financially to make the changes he wanted.

It's quite shocking the managers we've gone for when you list them all out. McCabe in particular seemed to have a real aversion for appointing people with any pedigree.
 
because we haven’t really moved on as a club since Bassett left.

The people that have had success here have been motivated leaders happy to take over the whole club (Warnock, Wilder, Heckingbottom, Speed to a certain degree), those that have worked in clubs with a proper organisational structure have really struggled (Selles, Jokanovic, Adkins).

It’s why we need a DoF/Technical Director and a proper separation of duties, that person would define what works and what doesn’t work and then put the relevant support structures in place. When Wilder left the previous two times the club shouldn’t have gone into free fall, someone should have understood why Wilder worked and identity a manager coming through the ranks that fits the mould.
 
Fjortoft's Aeroplane said:
Most managers without a Blades link in the last 29 years also happened to have very little to shout about on their managerial CV in general.
Kendall and Jokanovic probably had the best CVs.. Jokanovic wasn't backed financially to make the changes he wanted.

It's quite shocking the managers we've gone for when you list them all out. McCabe in particular seemed to have a real aversion for appointing people with any pedigree.
Click to expand...
Because they’re usually expensive 😂
 
YES Blade said:
Danny Wilson was the complete opposite of bladey blade and did well, would’ve probably got us promoted if not for Ched getting sent down.
Click to expand...

Agree…also thought he was possibly too nice and too postive/ naive playing open attacking football.

Almost pulled it off because in several matches that season it was like watching Brazil.
Very entertaining with a ……we don’t mind if you score 2 because we’re very confident we’ll score 3…attitude.

Regards why non Blades and especially foreign managers quickly fail.
Maybe it’s the air of negativity….there are a surprisingly high number of Blades who insist we can only succeed if we have Wilder, Sharp and/ or Montgomery.
However on the plus side……Wilder is back…..and there’s suddenly a palpable air of confidence amongst the fanbase.
 
SB_90 said:
I’m only going to talk about the last 25 years, since Adrian Heath left and Warnock began, for two reasons: I was 9 when Warnock took over, and nobody wants me writing the sequel to War & Peace 😄

But is this all just coincidence. the wrong person at the wrong time, or is there something deeper at Sheffield United? A culture where managers from outside are almost bound to fail?

I didn't realise how much it really annoyed me on Friday night, when Selles’ sacking felt inevitable. We’ve seen some genuinely good managers + Bryan Robson. who’ve succeeded elsewhere but struggled, often badly, at the Lane:

- Nigel Clough was big name, for the job he did at burton. but underachieved in the league. but probably still the best of the bunch, because of what he did in the cups

- Bryan Robson very successful at boro & 1st manager to keep a team up in premier league despite being bottom on christmas day

- Jokanović took Watford & Fulham to premier league but lasted 3 months here

- If i remember speed was doing great things at wales, that was felt even after his passing & yet was terrible here.

- Adkins brilliant at scunthorpe & back to back promotions with Southampton. yet took us to our worst league finish in 34 years

- Selles took Reading to the L1 playoffs last season despite the club on the brink of bankruptcy. lasted 6 games

So what didn’t these outsiders do that Warnock, Wilder, or Hecky did manage (i say Hecky as maybe harsh but he was wilder under a different name as he used Wilder’s players & his system), you probably have to go back to Dave Bassett in the early 90s for the last outsider who really worked.

So is it just bad luck? because for all the nuno talk. is there something about Sheffield United that outsiders simply can’t crack in these last 20-25 years?
Click to expand...
Hard to give much credibility to a point that only stands up if you ignore all examples that disprove it
 

SB_90 said:
I’m only going to talk about the last 25 years, since Adrian Heath left and Warnock began, for two reasons: I was 9 when Warnock took over, and nobody wants me writing the sequel to War & Peace 😄

But is this all just coincidence. the wrong person at the wrong time, or is there something deeper at Sheffield United? A culture where managers from outside are almost bound to fail?

I didn't realise how much it really annoyed me on Friday night, when Selles’ sacking felt inevitable. We’ve seen some genuinely good managers + Bryan Robson. who’ve succeeded elsewhere but struggled, often badly, at the Lane:

- Nigel Clough was big name, for the job he did at burton. but underachieved in the league. but probably still the best of the bunch, because of what he did in the cups

- Bryan Robson very successful at boro & 1st manager to keep a team up in premier league despite being bottom on christmas day

- Jokanović took Watford & Fulham to premier league but lasted 3 months here

- If i remember speed was doing great things at wales, that was felt even after his passing & yet was terrible here.

- Adkins brilliant at scunthorpe & back to back promotions with Southampton. yet took us to our worst league finish in 34 years

- Selles took Reading to the L1 playoffs last season despite the club on the brink of bankruptcy. lasted 6 games

So what didn’t these outsiders do that Warnock, Wilder, or Hecky did manage (i say Hecky as maybe harsh but he was wilder under a different name as he used Wilder’s players & his system), you probably have to go back to Dave Bassett in the early 90s for the last outsider who really worked.

So is it just bad luck? because for all the nuno talk. is there something about Sheffield United that outsiders simply can’t crack in these last 20-25 years?
Click to expand...
I believe they fail because most managers are cheque book managers and after being promised money to spend at their interview they get through the door to find it is not there.
 
I don’t think it really is a trend that bladey blades do better. As others have said, there’s just as many counter examples of outsiders succeeding and bladey types failing. If you go back before Warnock I can’t see any trend at all (and was Warnock that bladey? - he’d never worked or played for us before and not sure he’d lived in Sheffield much?)…

It skews a bit because a ‘good’ bladey blade manager sticks around longer than a good outsider. Steve Bruce and Gary Speed were arguably good managers on their way to being successful but left for better offers elsewhere. Whereas Wilder first spell might’ve left for a better offer if he wasn’t connected to us.

I think good managers succeed here regardless. We’ve hired a lot of bad managers - blades and outsiders - because we generally have had low budgets and insular executives/owners. We now have a specific problem that anyone taking over from Wilder seems to fail, which includes our 2 foreign managers.
 
SB_90 said:
I’m only going to talk about the last 25 years, since Adrian Heath left and Warnock began, for two reasons: I was 9 when Warnock took over, and nobody wants me writing the sequel to War & Peace 😄

But is this all just coincidence. the wrong person at the wrong time, or is there something deeper at Sheffield United? A culture where managers from outside are almost bound to fail?

I didn't realise how much it really annoyed me on Friday night, when Selles’ sacking felt inevitable. We’ve seen some genuinely good managers + Bryan Robson. who’ve succeeded elsewhere but struggled, often badly, at the Lane:

- Nigel Clough was big name, for the job he did at burton. but underachieved in the league. but probably still the best of the bunch, because of what he did in the cups

- Bryan Robson very successful at boro & 1st manager to keep a team up in premier league despite being bottom on christmas day

- Jokanović took Watford & Fulham to premier league but lasted 3 months here

- If i remember speed was doing great things at wales, that was felt even after his passing & yet was terrible here.

- Adkins brilliant at scunthorpe & back to back promotions with Southampton. yet took us to our worst league finish in 34 years

- Selles took Reading to the L1 playoffs last season despite the club on the brink of bankruptcy. lasted 6 games

So what didn’t these outsiders do that Warnock, Wilder, or Hecky did manage (i say Hecky as maybe harsh but he was wilder under a different name as he used Wilder’s players & his system), you probably have to go back to Dave Bassett in the early 90s for the last outsider who really worked.

So is it just bad luck? because for all the nuno talk. is there something about Sheffield United that outsiders simply can’t crack in these last 20-25 years?
Click to expand...
Reading finished 7th last season.
 
SB_90 said:
I’m only going to talk about the last 25 years, since Adrian Heath left and Warnock began, for two reasons: I was 9 when Warnock took over, and nobody wants me writing the sequel to War & Peace 😄

But is this all just coincidence. the wrong person at the wrong time, or is there something deeper at Sheffield United? A culture where managers from outside are almost bound to fail?

I didn't realise how much it really annoyed me on Friday night, when Selles’ sacking felt inevitable. We’ve seen some genuinely good managers + Bryan Robson. who’ve succeeded elsewhere but struggled, often badly, at the Lane:

- Nigel Clough was big name, for the job he did at burton. but underachieved in the league. but probably still the best of the bunch, because of what he did in the cups

- Bryan Robson very successful at boro & 1st manager to keep a team up in premier league despite being bottom on christmas day

- Jokanović took Watford & Fulham to premier league but lasted 3 months here

- If i remember speed was doing great things at wales, that was felt even after his passing & yet was terrible here.

- Adkins brilliant at scunthorpe & back to back promotions with Southampton. yet took us to our worst league finish in 34 years

- Selles took Reading to the L1 playoffs last season despite the club on the brink of bankruptcy. lasted 6 games

So what didn’t these outsiders do that Warnock, Wilder, or Hecky did manage (i say Hecky as maybe harsh but he was wilder under a different name as he used Wilder’s players & his system), you probably have to go back to Dave Bassett in the early 90s for the last outsider who really worked.

So is it just bad luck? because for all the nuno talk. is there something about Sheffield United that outsiders simply can’t crack in these last 20-25 years?
Click to expand...

I think their was flaws with them all. Robbo and Slav were cheque book managers. They only succeeded with huge resources. Slav never had that here. Robbo did in fairness so maybe we are right to have expected more with him. Neither manager were noted for tactical acumen or quality player recruitment with United adjacent budgets. Indeed I found Slav's naive high scoring basketball football highly unlikely to succeed here and was very underwhelmed by his Prem spells.

In hindsight their was some warning signs re Adkins. We wanted to believe in the Scunny/ Soton Adkins rather than what came after (me included). In fairness Clough left him a shocking hand with double figures in inadequate players on the last year of their deal. Anybody would've struggled imo. Wilder had a better hand although he needed many players, had a small budget and had to sell all the young quality to put his first team together.

Speed and Clough did a solid job. Both were gambles based off of their CVs. I think Selles will go down as an even bigger gamble albeit this time from a position of strength.

I think the only ones that logically should've worked are Adkins and maybe Robbo with the blank chequebook.
 
MayorOJC said:
Because Bladey Blade managers sign Bladey Blade players who don't like it when their fish n chips are replaced with paella.
Click to expand...

One of the criticisms levelled at Wilder was that he would only play Brexit players.

So we appoint a Spanish manager who started 9 English and 2 Irish players against Ipswich.
 
nopigfansintown said:
I think their was flaws with them all. Robbo and Slav were cheque book managers. They only succeeded with huge resources. Slav never had that here. Robbo did in fairness so maybe we are right to have expected more with him. Neither manager were noted for tactical acumen or quality player recruitment with United adjacent budgets. Indeed I found Slav's naive high scoring basketball football highly unlikely to succeed here and was very underwhelmed by his Prem spells.

In hindsight their was some warning signs re Adkins. We wanted to believe in the Scunny/ Soton Adkins rather than what came after (me included). In fairness Clough left him a shocking hand with double figures in inadequate players on the last year of their deal. Anybody would've struggled imo. Wilder had a better hand although he needed many players, had a small budget and had to sell all the young quality to put his first team together.

Speed and Clough did a solid job. Both were gambles based off of their CVs. I think Selles will go down as an even bigger gamble albeit this time from a position of strength.

I think the only ones that logically should've worked are Adkins and maybe Robbo with the blank chequebook.
Click to expand...
I am not sure one could describe Slavs as a cheque book manager.
 
When you look at decent clubs they all tend to have a thread of decades long culture about them.

Manchester United fell from the very top of the pile when then went from Ferguson to Moyes to a huge number of different styles and profiles. They now seem to have decided to stop flip flopping but at a guy who is worse than what they had before!!
 
I hate it when it gets portrayed like we're all just wanting these managers to fail because they're either not British or never had anything to do with the club. Sure we would all love every manager who is appointed for us to do well 😂 It was just never going to happen once people were privy to the owners treating it like a fantasy football game. Alex Crook from Talksport said apparently even if we went up Wilder wasn't guaranteed his job. The owners, consortium or whoever has the final say need to get some advisors and fast,.
 
SB_90 said:
I’m only going to talk about the last 25 years, since Adrian Heath left and Warnock began, for two reasons: I was 9 when Warnock took over, and nobody wants me writing the sequel to War & Peace 😄

But is this all just coincidence. the wrong person at the wrong time, or is there something deeper at Sheffield United? A culture where managers from outside are almost bound to fail?

I didn't realise how much it really annoyed me on Friday night, when Selles’ sacking felt inevitable. We’ve seen some genuinely good managers + Bryan Robson. who’ve succeeded elsewhere but struggled, often badly, at the Lane:

- Nigel Clough was big name, for the job he did at burton. but underachieved in the league. but probably still the best of the bunch, because of what he did in the cups

- Bryan Robson very successful at boro & 1st manager to keep a team up in premier league despite being bottom on christmas day

- Jokanović took Watford & Fulham to premier league but lasted 3 months here

- If i remember speed was doing great things at wales, that was felt even after his passing & yet was terrible here.

- Adkins brilliant at scunthorpe & back to back promotions with Southampton. yet took us to our worst league finish in 34 years

- Selles took Reading to the L1 playoffs last season despite the club on the brink of bankruptcy. lasted 6 games

So what didn’t these outsiders do that Warnock, Wilder, or Hecky did manage (i say Hecky as maybe harsh but he was wilder under a different name as he used Wilder’s players & his system), you probably have to go back to Dave Bassett in the early 90s for the last outsider who really worked.

So is it just bad luck? because for all the nuno talk. is there something about Sheffield United that outsiders simply can’t crack in these last 20-25 years?
Click to expand...
Heck got us promoted but had no Bladey links till we employed him. Dave Basset likewise ( I understand he's outside your time window but not mine.)

Mickey Adams was terrible
 
Howard Kendall and Dave Bassett had no links to the club. Danny Wilson and Heckingbottom both played for Wednesday, Wilson even managed them.

We gonna start saying we prefer managers who played for/managed Wednesday over foreign managers now?

Ruben Selles didn’t fail because he’s Spanish or not a blade, he failed because of his shortcomings as a manager
 

Fjortoft's Aeroplane said:
Most managers without a Blades link in the last 29 years also happened to have very little to shout about on their managerial CV in general.
Kendall and Jokanovic probably had the best CVs.. Jokanovic wasn't backed financially to make the changes he wanted.

It's quite shocking the managers we've gone for when you list them all out. McCabe in particular seemed to have a real aversion for appointing people with any pedigree.
Click to expand...

KMC-1889 said:
Because they’re usually expensive 😂
Click to expand...

He appointed Robson (with PL pedigree), to move us on to the next level internationally. The trouble is that Robson needed Venables at Boro, and Kidd couldn't do the same here.

It was an ambitious punt from McCabe, but failed because
1/ Terry Robinson was involved in signing players
2/ Robson had 'profile', but was shit.
 
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