What would have happened if we didn't go up?

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BettingBlade said:
He did exactly what he said he wouldn't do as soon as he got the cash. Of course, it's very easy to make statements like he did as the club had nothing to spend at the time.

There's a few managers that are far better when they have nothing to spend and have to work on a shoestring. I think the last few years of Wilder's career have proved that he is another to fall into that category.

Hecky is also now being forced to work on a relative shoestring for the level we are at. I would have more confidence in him spending a bigger budget much more wisely than Wilder did. His openness to looking abroad for bargains and not accepting the English premium as the only option is evidence of that.

Looking back on some of the money we have wasted since that first promotion is frightening. The players we have brought in this season already seem to be far better value even if they won't be enough to keep us up. It sounds absurd to say but unfortunately thats where the financial mismanagement over the last few years has left us.
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I understand the argument that the spend ultimately still lies at the foot of the prince as he signs the cheques...

But at that moment, there was a lot of anti prince sentiment amongst the fan base post winning his court case. Wilder was also untouchable and almost god-like in the eyes of the fanbase.

So I do believe, naïve or not, the prince had little choice but to please the man who was revered by so many.
 

Inter_blade83 said:
Doesn't matter. We got promoted.
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Actually yes it does matter, we need to learn from this and ideally there should be some accountability.

Its like saying that if someone drove 100mph down the motorway and there wasn't an accident that 'It doesn't matter. No-one died'.
 
FMBlade1 said:
Actually yes it does matter, we need to learn from this and ideally there should be some accountability.

Its like saying that if someone drove 100mph down the motorway and there wasn't an accident that 'It doesn't matter. No-one died'.
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It literally doesn't. If I drive at 100mph down the road and there's no accident, no lives are lost, and I've got to my location quicker... isn't that good all round?

What a retarded analogy.
 
Tarqs said:
I understand the argument that the spend ultimately still lies at the foot of the prince as he signs the cheques...

But at that moment, there was a lot of anti prince sentiment amongst the fan base post winning his court case. Wilder was also untouchable and almost god-like in the eyes of the fanbase.

So I do believe, naïve or not, the prince had little choice but to please the man who was revered by so many.
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That's pretty much my thoughts on it too.

Naive is exactly how I'd describe that summer from the Prince's point of view, admittedly though that's easy to say now. I just remember that summer being full of optimism, I don't think the fans expected that we would have blown not just that season's budget, but a bit of the next seasons in just one window. Then again, we'd have probably got away with that if it wasn't for covid. You can get away with flying by the seat of your pants for a bit but if the wind changes, you've fucked it.

The Prince has always been on to a loser with a section of our supporters anyway due to how he acquired full ownership and then the way Wilder left was probably the final nail in the coffin for some fans. I do think he's been about as fair as possible since he's fully owned the club, it's a shame we got too giddy with the chequebook at the wrong time.
 
BettingBlade said:
That's pretty much my thoughts on it too.

Naive is exactly how I'd describe that summer from the Prince's point of view, admittedly though that's easy to say now. I just remember that summer being full of optimism, I don't think the fans expected that we would have blown not just that season's budget, but a bit of the next seasons in just one window. Then again, we'd have probably got away with that if it wasn't for covid. You can get away with flying by the seat of your pants for a bit but if the wind changes, you've fucked it.

The Prince has always been on to a loser with a section of our supporters anyway due to how he acquired full ownership and then the way Wilder left was probably the final nail in the coffin for some fans. I do think he's been about as fair as possible since he's fully owned the club, it's a shame we got too giddy with the chequebook at the wrong time.
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The gambles didn't pay off, unfortunately.
 
Inter_blade83 said:
It literally doesn't. If I drive at 100mph down the road and there's no accident, no lives are lost, and I've got to my location quicker... isn't that good all round?

What a retarded analogy.
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Reckless behaviour should not be overlooked because of the outcome of getting away with it one time. Because it means that it'll be tried again and next time the outcome may not be so fortunate.
 
What would have happened if we'd beaten Forest and got promoted?
What would have happened if we'd given Hecky the job instead of Slav?
What would have happened if someone had met our asking price for Berge?
What would have happened if we'd signed Toney and a JOC replacement instead of Brewster?

There are a lot of hypothetical scenarios where the outcome could have been positive by following our spending policy. I don't think the policy was reckless only that most of the signings were wrong, and that was not only under Wilder but in the window after relegation (MGW excepted).
 
FMBlade1 said:
Some will say its not worth thinking about, however I find it intriguing to consider what might have happened if we didn't get promotion, which adds to extra relief/cause for celebration for the fact that we did get promotion this season!

I imagine that:

- Doyle and McAtee would have returned to Man City and be sold/loaned out to other clubs. Cieran Clark also leaves, going back to Newcastle.

- We would have to have sold Ndiaye and Berge and knock-down prices, perhaps getting £20 million for both of them if we were lucky as they are out of contract for the following season and we'd need the money.

- By the same merit, Anel would have to go to for around £10 million at most, and JOC is released to get him off the wage bill.

- There is no takeover and the Prince puts/can put no more money in and the club drifts.

- We have to rely on Sharp, Norwood, Fleck, Stevens and Basham for yet another season.

- Heckingbottom keeps his job for the time being, but is given next to no transfer budget, and after a disappointing start he is sacked before Christmas and replaced by McCall.



What do you think? Is that too gloomy or quite realistic?
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Sorry not read the thread but 90% of this seems to be happening anyway? 😬
 
FMBlade1 said:
Reckless behaviour should not be overlooked because of the outcome of getting away with it one time. Because it means that it'll be tried again and next time the outcome may not be so fortunate.
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Driving at 100mph on a motorway is not reckless behaviour. It's what they are designed for.

See: Autobahn.
 
FMBlade1 said:
Actually yes it does matter, we need to learn from this and ideally there should be some accountability.

Its like saying that if someone drove 100mph down the motorway and there wasn't an accident that 'It doesn't matter. No-one died'.
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It’s not like saying that at all.
 
Inter_blade83 said:
Driving at 100mph on a motorway is not reckless behaviour. It's what they are designed for.

See: Autobahn.
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Ok you try that in the UK and let me know how you get on, and see if the police/courts accept your reasoning :)
 
FMBlade1 said:
Some will say its not worth thinking about, however I find it intriguing to consider what might have happened if we didn't get promotion, which adds to extra relief/cause for celebration for the fact that we did get promotion this season!

I imagine that:

- Doyle and McAtee would have returned to Man City and be sold/loaned out to other clubs. Cieran Clark also leaves, going back to Newcastle.

- We would have to have sold Ndiaye and Berge and knock-down prices, perhaps getting £20 million for both of them if we were lucky as they are out of contract for the following season and we'd need the money.

- By the same merit, Anel would have to go to for around £10 million at most, and JOC is released to get him off the wage bill.

- There is no takeover and the Prince puts/can put no more money in and the club drifts.

- We have to rely on Sharp, Norwood, Fleck, Stevens and Basham for yet another season.

- Heckingbottom keeps his job for the time being, but is given next to no transfer budget, and after a disappointing start he is sacked before Christmas and replaced by McCall.



What do you think? Is that too gloomy or quite realistic?
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I think some of it is a bit on the dark and gloomy side, but I suspect you are not too far off.

Don’t stop now, you’re just getting the hang of it. 😊
 

Utd took a calculated gamble and it came off. I doubt supporters of other clubs that took similar successful gambles (e.g. Bournemouth, Forest, Fulham and particularly Newcastle and Villa) are still pondering the potential downside if their respective gambles hadn't landed.
 
I still believe we will survive the first EPL season. I can see the reasoning from those who think we will be relegated.Hecky is probably doing a better job than anyone expected, (including me, and the Prince probably).

Whatever happens, enjoy it while it lasts. Use PL income to stabilize the club, which the Prince finall seems to be doing, because under current leadership, the only alternative will ne mid table Championship mediocrity.

Of course everyone wanted Illy to stay, but he has gone now, and PH has an unexpected windfall that might just help his plans to stay up. Staying up is a much better alternative than mid table mediocrity in the league below.
 
We would have had to sell Illi and give the likes of fleck and osbourn another year, would have been no hope of getting Mcatee or Doyle back and would have had to look at failed youth players from the likes of man utd and arsenal released at the age of 25.
 
JohnDenver said:
We need new ownership.
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As we used to say under McCabe's tenure.

Though to progress we need billionaires this time rather than millionaires.

Form an orderly queue ladies and gentlemen.

Though what is wrong with mid table Championship mediocrity ?

If the football is entertaining is all that concerns me not how much money we can spend.
 
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Tom Bott said:
As we used to say under McCabe's tenure.

Though to progress we need billionaires this time rather than millionaires.

Form an orderly queue ladies and gentlemen.

Though what is wrong with mid table Championship mediocrity ?

If the football is entertaining is all that concerns me not how much money we can spend.
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I’ve sympathy with that argument, but the Prince cannot even fund midtable championship mediocrity. It’s a major loss making enterprise, and the odds are we‘ll be back there soon.

I want an owner who doesn’t sail us close to the wind when they cannot afford to underwrite it. An owner who doesn’t think not paying creditors is acceptable. An owner who cares how they leave club when they move on.
 
I'm more interested/worried about what our financial state will be next summer if we go down tbh
 

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