What HAVE they done to country's most popular sport?

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ThatJa said:
Burnley spent a hundred and sixty million quid.

Let that sink in.
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Was just about to post the same. They spent a fortune on Trafford despite him never playing above league 1. He looks terrible on crosses and corners whenever I've seen him.
 

The gap between the big 6 or 8 clubs and the rest of the league has grown in recent years but has the gap between the bottom three and the rest of the league? The gap between us and Burnley and the rest of the division is mostly down to our own internal failings.
 
Both things can be true at once.

Yes, there is a growing chasm between the wealthy teams and the rest.

Yes, we made a complete shitshow of preparing for this season and this disaster is to a large extent of the club’s own making. How many teams get promoted and then start the next season with a worse squad?

It’s been a real perfect storm.
 
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23/24 is the standout data point there and highlights our own issue this season? The gap between the top 6 or 8 has grown so the points required to win the league has gone up whilst the required points to stay up has fallen. Our predicament this season is down to our own failures. Whether the change in football so that the richest clubs are now so dominant is a separate issue?
 
brownblade said:
True, but they have a platform and people listen. So they could say things that are more intelligent and balanced.
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To say something more intelligent would require them to have a modicum of intelligence, which they don't.
 
My thoughts exactly. The premier league is a different game to the rest of football. Not quite the same difference as rugby league V rugby union but it’s getting that way. Let them have their closed shop and international viewers.
 
ISZA ⚔️ said:
The key word is competition. That’s the very thing that makes any sport exciting and attractive. And in the PL there just isn’t any.

The trouble is the only people who will ever talk about it are fans of clubs like us and Burnley. Outside of that not a lot care.
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Not sure that's true mate. I've had conversations with Derby, Stoke, West Brom, Norwich, Birmingham, Southampton (Matt Le Tissier no less!), Pompey, Reading, Sunderland etc. There's an increasing number of clubs and fans feeling pissed off by the system.

The problem is that football in general, and the PL/UEFA/FIFA in specific don't give any more of shit about us than they did about Bury. They're more interested in Man U fans in SE Asia. Old fashioned working class clubs - and their fans - don't matter anymore, irrespective of our histories, heritage and contributions to the game down the decades.

Screw 'em. Cricket starts again soon.
 
We didn’t have to sell Berge and Ndiaye, we chose this strategy of selling good players and replacing them with shit.

We could have signed players over the years who appreciate in value, instead we’ve pissed money up the wall on some shocking signings.

There is certainly a financial disparity in the game, however our actions haven’t even attempted to redress this, quite the opposite.
 
It's difficult to see how any team promoted from the Championship can compete with the big boys when boatloads of money are required to even stay in the league. If the EPL have the nerve to do it the best thing that can happen is for an example to be made of Man City - they seem to have broken just about every financial rule and have so far got away with it. I would love to see them treated like Rangers were in Scotland - relegated to the bottom league and having to work their way back to the top.

Of course it will never happen but I don't know why the EPL have these financial rules when they seem incapable of enforcing them.
 
SheepdipBlade said:
Derby, Stoke, West Brom, Norwich, Birmingham, Southampton (Matt Le Tissier no less!), Pompey, Reading, Sunderland etc
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All teams who’ve tasted it. My point was just that it’s the clubs who are involved in being pasted week in week out who will shout it loudest.
 
ISZA ⚔️ said:
All teams who’ve tasted it. My point was just that it’s the clubs who are involved in being pasted week in week out who will shout it loudest.
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Think that's true, but I think the PL are underestimating how pissed off people are - and about how long people's memories are. It's been a while since Sunderland or Derby were there, but some of their fans still feel it keenly now. Perhaps that's because the PL don't have to shell their earnings out on season tickets like ordinary fans.
 

Pedro's Winger said:
Haven't Burnley also sold players for big money in the last couple of years?
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Not really. Standard firesale last season (Collins £20m, Cornet £17m, McNeil £15m, Pope £10m) but they reinvested more than half of that (£40m+) in rebuilding their squad and Kompany won't have come cheap either.
 
The rot set in years ago, not only with the difference, money makes but also the creation of a totally unlevel playing field within the division through the greed of European Competition. To win the European Cup in the 70’s and 80’s required a team to beat 5 opponents and 4 of those were two legged knockout affairs. That’s 9 games maximum and that’s only the winners and losing finalists.

Contrast that now to a guaranteed minimum six matches in the group stage for the Champions and 3 (maybe soon 4) non-champions of England every year. That is competitive experience not available to the other teams in the Premiership, lucrative money earning and attractive to players and it’s been afforded with a few exceptions to the same teams year in year out for over a generation.

The domestic cup competitions ( the FA Cup was once THE tournament to win in the early days of the football league) provide little opportunity to gain any useful experience through playing against or fielding weakened teams. While all credit is due to Liverpool for their recent league cup win with many young players, what does it say about the rest of the entire league that they were able to do so?

The difference within the league is getting wider. We began the season looking at a mini-league with Fulham, Bournemouth, Brentford, Palace, Wolves, Forest, Luton, Burnley and Everton. That is 18 matches.

A team doing well, such as Villa are having to average 2 points a game to have a tenuous hope of finishing fourth. What would two points a game afford us in our 18 match mini-league? 36 points, near enough relegation threshold not so long ago, so it’s not surprising the bottom three teams are becoming more adrift.

As for the pundits, who cares? I don’t watch the advertisments for gambling, punctuated briefly by some punditry before any game and I always find something else to do to avoid even 1 second of the half time drivel. Within game, they should all be encouraged to use the Amazon model- Stadium FX only.
 
The Premier League has become like Scottish football. The megastore clubs have made the competition un-competitive, due to their greed. The only difference is that instead of the gruesome twosome, we have a big six. In this scenario, we are the Hamilton Accies of the world, making up the numbers to provide entertainment for the "fans" in the Far East.
 
And now Villa have reported a loss of 119 million. Points deduction my arse, reward, 4th place. Premier league is an enigma wrapped around a puzzle that makes shit up to suit its own interests. How are non 6/7, billionaire less owned clubs to compete? They aren't. I'll go all conspiracy here and say it's part of a bigger plan, maybe superleague, I don't know.
 
Football is better than it has ever been, just because it's left dopey backward football clubs behind doesn't mean it's ruined.
Foreign players wanting to play here rather than our odd good having to go abroad to better himself.

Any club arriving in the Premier League has a huge opportunity to bring in sufficient quality to be a top Championship club at least if they don't stay up, they have the opportunity to sign and sell exciting players for top money and make the club financially stable forever by yo yoing up and down between the Championship and the Premier League, until one day they are good enough to stay there.
Well, any club apart from one
 
The essential point is that the situation that we have now is exactly what the big clubs wanted when they broke away and created the PL. They make the rules to suit themselves - no pesky FA or EFL committee buggering things up by wanting to run the show with the interests of the wider game taken into account. There’s quite enough big teams now they just need some whipping boys to demonstrate how great they are.

It tells you all you need to know when a sharp bloke like Jim Ratcliffe is prepared to splurge 1.25 £B on a quarter of Man Utd because he thinks if’s a good investment. The league table pretty much equates to the amount of wedge in the boardroom. No longer a sporting competition just a grand system for making the rich richer and to hell with the rest.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
GreasyChipBeattie

Good post. I'll emphasise - I'm here for the debate...

Can I query your - handful of investors loads of personal gain - point?
Who/what are you thinking of here?

Sure. There is a lot of money spinning around the PL Circus. But, the vast majority of that money is spent, isn't it? Spent on fees. Spent on wages. There are leveraged buyouts. Where new owners use the PL money to pay off the loans they used to buy the clubs.

But, I don't think it's a case of individuals taking money out of the game. It's the concentration on money in fewer clubs spending it among themselves.

Anyway. Good post.
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Another good sensible post.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
GreasyChipBeattie

Good post. I'll emphasise - I'm here for the debate...

Can I query your - handful of investors loads of personal gain - point?
Who/what are you thinking of here?

Sure. There is a lot of money spinning around the PL Circus. But, the vast majority of that money is spent, isn't it? Spent on fees. Spent on wages. There are leveraged buyouts. Where new owners use the PL money to pay off the loans they used to buy the clubs.

But, I don't think it's a case of individuals taking money out of the game. It's the concentration on money in fewer clubs spending it among themselves.

Anyway. Good post.
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To be honest mate, I don't know the full ins and outs. From what I do know, SKY pay stupid money to clubs to get stupidly paid players to make the Premier League a globally traded commodity. To answer your question, the main shareholders of SKY I guess.
 
SheepdipBlade said:
Think that's true, but I think the PL are underestimating how pissed off people are - and about how long people's memories are. It's been a while since Sunderland or Derby were there, but some of their fans still feel it keenly now. Perhaps that's because the PL don't have to shell their earnings out on season tickets like ordinary fans.
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Nothing will change.
 
GreasyChipBeattie said:
Blame the prince, blame Wilder, blame the players, or even the fans, but for me, the issue with football nowadays is the financial structure of the game.
Nope, this is nothing new, but this season shows more than ever, the damage done to teams outside of the clique.

View attachment 180146

These were the best 2 teams in the Championship last season.
Both in danger of ending up the worst 2 performing teams in Premier League history.
Let that sink in for a moment.
The best 2 teams in the Championship last season currently the worst 2 performing teams in Premier League history.

Jamie Carragher can spout about us, his 'Disgraceful, worst I've ever seen' comments (do Burnley get anywhere near the same flak?) as though he's somehow annoyed that we are as we are, shocked and surprised that a team limited with finances as we are, fielding a team of decent Championship players, get mauled by a team of world class players.

Why is it happening this way? Because that is what the premier League product wants...no, needs.
Needs, because it makes a handful of investors loads of personal gain, and for what? Loads of personal pain for 'normal' supporters who can do f**k all about it, other that face the disappointment, piss-taking workmates..and media like never before! How far has our 'sport' fallen that even commentators feel they have the right to kick a man when he's down?

Why are we such a disgrace (you said it Carragher) to the Premier League? Because human nature being what it is cannot continually cope with disappointment and failure. You see the opposite when a team goes on a confidence-boosting winning or undefeated run. We are seeing it with demoralised players knowing they are out of their depth and failing to give of themselves.
What would you do about it Carragher? Spit in an opponents face?

The selfish side of me wants us to be as successful as the teams who have clinically put us (and others) to the sword this season, but the human, compassionate sportsman in me remembers that football IS a sport, that requires a level playing field that's more than just a surface to play on.

Anyway, back to my mate Jamie. I can see the gap in quality. I can see what it does to my team's players getting hammered week after week. I don't need you to tell me and the watching world how disgraced you are by us. We want you to be honest and recognise why it's happening and who knows, maybe even do something about it.
Sadly all I can see for the future of our National game is more of the same.
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It’s not a national game any more, it’s a global sport and investment (in certain clubs) and revenues have skyrocketed as a result.
The clubs that are a global brand have attracted major investment leaving everybody else in the dust.
The English football pyramid is an antiquated system struggling to adapt to the new world.
 
Working Class Hero said:
If the obscene amounts of money being thrown around was to suddenly stop, and every club had the same modest salary cap
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this has to come sooner rather than later. transfer fees as ive said need to get under control youve got 5/10m players going for 20/30m. haaland & de bruyne wages are more expensive than either us or luton annual squad wage

F1 albeit forced through because they didn't want it. but the new owners of F1 forced through a budget cap because of these reasons you & alot people have said. & there similarities 2018/2019 for the most part that F1 10 team sport in name only. it top 3 cars in a league of their own & everyone else in F 1.5. because top 3 could spent 400m a season but everyone else was struggling in 110-130m
 
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