Weir should stay:

[dublin 10 blade]

I hope all the posters on here saying give him time and hope for the best , will be the same for players who are not good enough

I hope they will chant their names as theyre called out on the team sheet and cheer loudly every time they do anyhting positive , more importantly I hope they give the players a standing ovation every time they leave the field regardless of results

Lets start a revoloution lets be the first football club where winning and losing doesnt matter because youre allowed to be shit because getting rid of you and replacing you with someone better is not an option

Sufc the caring club

I'm prepared to give most players a season to bed in , and get to know their surroundings ,
last year did'nt give out about Flynn now he needs to start earning his corn.
the 2 murphys would'nt give out about them till next seson , the newer one in particular ,
Porter/williams had their chance but thanks , but no thanks , mind the door does'nt hit you on the arse on the way out .
Westlake , at least he try's jury's out on him for time being.
Doyle , frustrating , really frustrating ,
People want to hiss and boo let em it's their choice , would never boo or berate players does'nt work at junior level why should it further up the leagues , people pay their money sure , but if you go to the flicks , a play , a concert what do they do stand up in the middle of it booing and shouting your shit , do they fook , I prefer to back our team , clapper it is then so . U.T.B.

 

[BladeFisher]

You can so tell you are a teacher...

I mean, for fuck's sake. The "l" is next to the "k" on the keyboard, so the latter is obviously a mistype. What do you want me to do - proof read my posts as if I were doing a submission to the high court?

Do you get off on this?

Oh Dazza that made me laugh! Do you speak to your client's like this? Good one mate, the banter is what keeps us all sane!

 

[LSF]

You can so tell you are a teacher...

I mean, for fuck's sake. The "l" is next to the "k" on the keyboard, so the latter is obviously a mistype. What do you want me to do - proof read my posts as if I were doing a submission to the high court?

Do you get off on this?

I'd say he knows how to press your buttons rather than get off on it

 

[norfolkblade]

Until he's got players in that are actually good enough to play in the system he wants, I really think we need to go back to 4-4-2 and just become solid again and tough to beat.

I will accept this as a transitional season for that purpose but I will not accept flirting with relegation in the process.

If he doesn't want to change the formation to suit the ability of the players at his disposal, then he's got 5 games to save himself in my eyes as this is becoming unbearable.

Label me in the hoof brigade, do what you like, but however we do it, we need to start winning. Quickly.

 

[sheepbridge]

Like most others, I think we need to give Weir more time, we can't just change a manager after 7 games. Some of the best managers in the game had poor starts to their careers, including some of those now being touted as the next managers for United.
If we do appoint someone else now, what would be an acceptable points return before we decide to sack them as well? 7 points from 7 games, 10 points?
I'm not sure we have the players to be getting much above mid-table anyway, certainly up front.

But, I am extremely concerned with the the performances and the reluctance to change from the style of play that patently isn't working with the current squad, even when losing to very average teams.
I'm happy to see his style of play if I thought we had the players to do this, and if he stays and is allowed to buy and train the players he might achieve it, but trying to fit the current squad to this method and worse not realising that it isn't working or willing to change to fit the match / his squad is suicide on his part and he will give the club no choice but to dismiss him very soon.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Difficult to say what our 1st XI should be but defence and Doyle aside, it is very inexperienced. We saw against Notts County, and in brief spells since, what Weir is trying to do but that style of football is all about confidence which we are clearly lacking. If Weir is struggling to motivate the players or instill confidence then fair enough, he might not be the man for the job but if we're sticking with his playing style whilst bringing in young players then there's really no point in changing at this stage.

As people have said. SO'D went through the same thing at Donny, I seem to remember they hardly won a game until Xmas then it clicked. We desperately need a couple of experienced players in, definitely one up front, to try and get some kind of solidity through the spine of the team but I think most of it is confidence.

Last thing we need to do at the moment is change things round again, unless, as I say, it's clear that Weir isn't up to it for reasons over and above purely results. Trouble is, we've got two tough games ahead and it's unlikely to get any easier short term.

 

[Eskimo]

There main thing for me why Weir should be given a bit longer is simly the loss of Macdonald which In my view scuppered all the work done to that date. It looked to me that he was the guy he wanted to build the team around. Coupled with this is our clear lack of a decent striker which you can't really blame him for.

But despite these allowances he scores very low in many areas of his approach and maybe it will come quickly apparent over the next three games that he has shit his potfull :

-Tactical rigidity
-Bizarre team selections and very poor performances. Playing at Carlisle on Saturday with 1 forward who has never scored a goal and the subsequent lethargic performance was as bad in my book as bad as the Hartlepool cup game which cost Blackwell his job.
-The obvious low confidence of many players and lack of organisation on the pitch.

The fact he has no experience of all this does not solicit confidence either. I hope the board are at least sounding out possible replacements to avoid the usual replacement manager fiasco

 

[cooperblade]

Until he's got players in that are actually good enough to play in the system he wants, I really think we need to go back to 4-4-2 and just become solid again and tough to beat.

I think our strikers are better suited to a 4-4-2 but I don't think we have the right midfielders to play a 4 across the middle. If Baxter or Cuvelier played in the middle, they'd need a physical presence alongside them who was capable of covering a lot of the pitch. We don't have that player.

Think the best we could do would be to play our two most 'solid' players in the middle (Doyle and Coady for me) and try and get some pace and flair wide (Brandy and Baxter/Cuvelier/Murphy?). Don't think that would be any more creative than the current set up.

Not sure we'd have signed any of McGinn, Baxter, Brandy or Cuvelier if we thought we were going to play 4-4-2.

 

[stannyblade]

There main thing for me why Weir should be given a bit longer is simly the loss of Macdonald which In my view scuppered all the work done to that date. It looked to me that he was the guy he wanted to build the team around. Coupled with this is our clear lack of a decent striker which you can't really blame him for.

But despite these allowances he scores very low in many areas of his approach and maybe it will come quickly apparent over the next three games that he has shit his potfull :

-Tactical rigidity
-Bizarre team selections and very poor performances. Playing at Carlisle on Saturday with 1 forward who has never scored a goal and the subsequent lethargic performance was as bad in my book as bad as the Hartlepool cup game which cost Blackwell his job.
-The obvious low confidence of many players and lack of organisation on the pitch.

The fact he has no experience of all this does not solicit confidence either. I hope the board are at least sounding out possible replacements to avoid the usual replacement manager fiasco

This is spot on. Leave him in the job for 5 more games and then sack him without bringing a replacement straight in is madness.

 

[Lampiao]

Thing that gets to me is that we've been promised by a variety of managers and chairmen since 1975 "Stick with us and we'll get it right eventually". Still waiting for that promised land, when we have a little blip of success it always seems to be followed by at least a decade of misery and failure. It's probably why so many "Older" blades are classed as pessimists.

I'm afraid it's jam today I want - I might not have a decade to wait for that success!

 

[Fiery Blade]

Whilst I don't advocate sacking Weir yet - his performance to date stinks!
He doesn't know his best team - he shuffles the team like deckchairs on the deck of the Titanic - I don't think he has had the same team twice
He was the one that decided to play a formation with MacDonald at the Hub knowing that he didn't have a replacement in case of transfer / injury / suspension / loss of form
He was the one that signed Taylor
He now has a midfield posse of Doyle, McGinn, Brandy, Flynn, Murphy, Macfadzean, Coady, Cuvelier, Baxter - nine players and they struggle to conjure up any chances whatever the line up
He has converted a defence that kept so many clean sheets last year into a leaking collinder that lets goals in for fun.
Given his track record to date he is either an arrogant ex player who is so intransigent that he will not change formation despite it obvious that it is not working or so much out of his depth that he does not know what to do or where to turn next !
The choice is either sack him and replace him with a tried and tested manager that has a track record or get someone in (eg Director of Football say Walter Smith) to help him sort out this mess
I fear that leaving him to his own devices will see us approach Christmas with a mountain to climb to get out of relegation trouble, falling attendances and many Blades just opting out !
I for one cannot continue to go to games knowing that Leyton Orient, Rotherham, Carlisle, Bradford City etc see us as easy pickings !

 

[IOM Blade]

I watched a stream of the Greek pre-season friendly and was amazed at the quality of football. We scored in the first minute and the Greeks didn't have a kick for the first 15. The form continued through the Notts County game, but since then we seem to have capitulated.

It's all very perplexing. McDonald was MotM in both games and he's a big loss but surely not to this extreme? David Weir SHOULD be a great manager. He has a wealth of experience at every level of football and is a very intelligent chap. He SHOULD be able to turn this around.

He said after the Carlisle game he's questioning himself. I have a feeling we'll see 4-4-2 on Sat. He has to change something quick, his entire managerial career could depend on it. If he gets sacked two months into his first job nobody would touch him with a barge pole.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Preparing to be flamed here, but my view is that David Weir should stay;
We simply cannot go on changing managers, I am sure we all have ideas who we should bring in as a new manager, but realistically how do we know that any new manager could make this squad play any better .

Because Danny Wilson did...

Weir has lost only really McDonald of substance from Wilson's squad and signed nine new players of his own.
Therefore the current squad should be much stronger than last seasons.
The minimum requirement should be to match last season when we were never below 8th.
He's not getting the best out of the squad and he's not even choosing his own signings ahead of Wilson's

 

[Kev Gee]

I think the fans need to see some kind of improvement. Even if we are not getting positive results. At least if there was development in play of some sort, then i think the fans could give him longer.
The problem is, there isnt anything of the sort at the moment.

 

[Torrix1889]

He would have been better off sourcing players from the Conference than Scotland....

 

[SwissBlade]

Preparing to be flamed here, but my view is that David Weir should stay;
We simply cannot go on changing managers, I am sure we all have ideas who we should bring in as a new manager, but realistically how do we know that any new manager could make this squad play any better.

A slightly different scenario but most will remember in his first two seasons, Ched Evans was slated, as being crap, to me at that time he was not being played to his strengths. Wilson came along, played to his strengths and we had the goalscorer we craved.

Weir has to be allowed the time to develop what he wants, I also think as we now have a new wealthy backer, that he should be allowed the money to pay off the players he doesn't want, and replace them with the players he does. I am pretty sure given a free rein, then many of the players we have on the books he would get rid off, if he is not allowed the money to pay players off, then it is going to take longer for him to get the team he wants.

Even with the current team we will finish nearer the top than the bottom. My view he needs the time, and we need to be more patient than we as fans are showing at the moment.

Stands back and waits to be assassinated...........

Many people on here would talk about taking a backward step to eventually go forward, but many won't have the patience to see it through.

Great players don't always make good managers, Robson being absolutely proof if this. So in just the same way, good players don't either. But I'm prepared to see Weir's reign through. It's a gamble, but then again only Warnock and Bassett have stuck around since the 80's and seen the job through.

If we really want to rebuild this sorry team, then sooner or later we have to stick with a manager and a style of play.

Weir must get until Xmas at least, I'd also advocate taking him through to the end of the season.

BUT... The team must show improvements in performance. If we get the performances to improve then the results will eventually improve.

The first thing I would say is to stop shipping goals, we need to make ourselves so hard to beat, then hopefully we'll have at least had time to being in a striker that knows where the chuffing goal is.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Thing that gets to me is that we've been promised by a variety of managers and chairmen since 1975 "Stick with us and we'll get it right eventually". Still waiting for that promised land, when we have a little blip of success it always seems to be followed by at least a decade of misery and failure. It's probably why so many "Older" blades are classed as pessimists.

I'm afraid it's jam today I want - I might not have a decade to wait for that success!

McCabe stuck with Warnock when many were shouting for his head and we managed to achieve the goal eventually. After the relative euphoria of 02/03, there's no way Warnock would have survived 03/04 and certainly not 04/05 in this day and age and we're only talking 10 years.

No-one gets any time these days hence the reason (just checked) that there are only 25 current league managers who have been in place longer than 1 season. Chris Wilder currently lies 3rd !

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

He would have been better off sourcing players from the Conference than Scotland....

Indeed. After picking up Jamie Vardy, watch out for Fleetwood's Antoni Sarcevic (surprisingly a Manc). He started at Man City, played a handful of games for Crewe and they've picked him up from Chester. Jeff Hughes is also starring for them and we could have done a lot worse than snapping him up last Summer, proven in this League.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

McCabe stuck with Warnock when many were shouting for his head and we managed to achieve the goal eventually. After the relative euphoria of 02/03, there's no way Warnock would have survived 03/04 and certainly not 04/05 in this day and age and we're only talking 10 years.

No-one gets any time these days hence the reason (just checked) that there are only 25 current league managers who have been in place longer than 1 season. Chris Wilder currently lies 3rd !

Again, Warnock could point to his five previous promotions as well as the “Triple Assault” season to prove that he was a good manager who could get us promoted.
Weir can only point to his six months as Assistant Manager to Alan Stubbs at Everton U21’s and his boys own book of theoretical football tactics.
He may never be a good manager, many ex-players who try move into management aren’t. Most at least learn the ropes further down the ladder and work their way slowly up.
Nobody was keen to let Morgan have more than seven games in the hope that he’d slowly grow into the job. Quite rightly and for very good reasons. Why should it be any different for Weir?

 

[cooperblade]

Most at least learn the ropes further down the ladder

Isn't that what he's doing?

 

[Bergen Blade]

It's all very perplexing. McDonald was MotM in both games and he's a big loss but surely not to this extreme?

I think the balance in the first game looked really good. We were vulnerable and Weir was still to find out about the weaknesses of the first choice full backs, but things looked promising.

Since McDonald left Weir has never managed to achieve a similarly good balance. Things could improve with the return of Brandy, Murphy and Porter, coupled with a loan or two, and I think we should 'risk' waiting for that, rather than sacking him. I'm not very optimistic regarding the next couple of games and fear any improvement may happen after those.

Would it be wise if the board came out and said Weir's position would not be discussed at all the next four weeks, giving him two 'easier' games (Crawley and Hartlepool at home) to show that he can turn things around?

 

[Fazak]

As always, your post is well thought out and well argued. But sometimes you come up with pearls like this:

You're at it again, are you sure you've got the right forum?

Have you thought of trying the Plain English Campaign?

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Again, Warnock could point to his five previous promotions as well as the “Triple Assault” season to prove that he was a good manager who could get us promoted.
Weir can only point to his six months as Assistant Manager to Alan Stubbs at Everton U21’s and his boys own book of theoretical football tactics.
He may never be a good manager, many ex-players who try move into management aren’t. Most at least learn the ropes further down the ladder and work their way slowly up.
Nobody was keen to let Morgan have more than seven games in the hope that he’d slowly grow into the job. Quite rightly and for very good reasons. Why should it be any different for Weir?

We all know what Morgs was all about and whilst you couldn't guarantee what he was going to be like as a manager and how he would want his team to play to be fair, Weir has a better background as a footballer, better contacts and more experience coaching, and at a higher level. We needed someone new coming in with different ideas and if we were going down the new manager route, Weir was always going to be ahead of Morgs.

 

[cooperblade]

I think the balance in the first game looked really good. We were vulnerable and Weir was still to find out about the weaknesses of the first choice full backs, but things looked promising.

Since McDonald left Weir has never managed to achieve a similarly good balance. Things could improve with the return of Brandy, Murphy and Porter, coupled with a loan or two, and I think we should 'risk' waiting for that, rather than sacking him. I'm not very optimistic regarding the next couple of games and fear any improvement may happen after those.

Would it be wise if the board came out and said Weir's position would not be discussed at all the next four weeks, giving him two 'easier' games (Crawley and Hartlepool at home) to show that he can turn things around?

Westlake's main weakness is defending crosses coming in from the opposite wing and this was highlighted against Burton in our 2nd game. That game also gave us an insight into what life without McDonald would be like (I know he played but he was totally disinterested).

Plenty of people have said it over and over again but the full back positions are a massive problem for us. Going with the more dependable McMahon (ignoring his hot headedness) and Hill means we can't attack in the required numbers (especially when Coady and Doyle are the holding midfielders).

We only have 1 attacking option with any real experience of playing at full back in Westlake (and he hasn't played there all that much). McGinty looks a strange acquisition, he may develop into a good defender, I think he can be a real threat at set pieces and he adds much needed height but, although he's willing to get forward, he lacks the necessary skills to be an effective overlapping full back.

Williams had his chances and looked worse going forward than Hill and appears to be totally out of favour. Maybe off field issues? There were rumours of this under Wilson when he again fell off the radar completely.

After that we're into the unknown with players like McFadzean or Johns.

Someone suggested 3-5-2 in another thread and maybe that would help protect the defensive weaknesses of the likes of Westlake and McFadzean. Would we need a ball-winner in the central 3 though or could we get away with 3 of our more skillful players? Where would Brandy fit in?

 

[BerksBlade]

Some good ideas here but are the players capable of switching formation like this? They're floundering with 4-3-3 at the moment, so faced with 3-5-2 or 3-2-4-1 their heads might explode!
One of the problems with a back 3 is that they are often marking only 1 out-and-out striker. Also, when we bring the ball out, the player on the ball needs options to pass forwards, not sideways or backwards.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

We all know what Morgs was all about and whilst you couldn't guarantee what he was going to be like as a manager and how he would want his team to play to be fair, Weir has a better background as a footballer, better contacts and more experience coaching, and at a higher level. We needed someone new coming in with different ideas and if we were going down the new manager route, Weir was always going to be ahead of Morgs.

Ah yes, how could we forget "Weir's Big Book of Contacts?
So far, it appears to be gathering dust on the shelf next to "Weir's Big Book of Tactics Vol 2"

 

[oldblade]

Preparing to be flamed here, but my view is that David Weir should stay;
We simply cannot go on changing managers, I am sure we all have ideas who we should bring in as a new manager, but realistically how do we know that any new manager could make this squad play any better.

A slightly different scenario but most will remember in his first two seasons, Ched Evans was slated, as being crap, to me at that time he was not being played to his strengths. Wilson came along, played to his strengths and we had the goalscorer we craved.

Weir has to be allowed the time to develop what he wants, I also think as we now have a new wealthy backer, that he should be allowed the money to pay off the players he doesn't want, and replace them with the players he does. I am pretty sure given a free rein, then many of the players we have on the books he would get rid off, if he is not allowed the money to pay players off, then it is going to take longer for him to get the team he wants.

Even with the current team we will finish nearer the top than the bottom. My view he needs the time, and we need to be more patient than we as fans are showing at the moment.

Stands back and waits to be assassinated...........

I understand the reluctance to part company with yet another manager, but Weir has brought in Taylor, Brandy, McGinn, Coady, Baxter, Cuvelier, McGinty and Johns. That is a significant number of players, so if they are not playing very well to his system he has to take a good part of the responsibility for that.

If no one else can get them playing well that shows Weir has brought in poor players. In which case I would be reluctant to trust him with any funds that our new part owner might make available. He needs to show he can get the players he's already acquired playing well before being allowed to use up any significant portion of whatever our transfer budget may be.

 

[wardonia_blade]

Weir should stay BUT... he needs to change the system. It's not working with the players we've got.

Take Connor Coady for example, he is clearly a good player but is being made to look worse than useless a la Leon Britton, James Harper & Dingle Howard. All great players but unless utilised correctly in the correct formation then they are useless.

A Liverpool fan at work constantly asks how Coady is doing and he genuinely thinks i'm taking the piss when I say he's shit. Apparently he adopts a "shoot on sight" policy in the Steven Gerrard mould. I am yet to see Connor Coady shoot. This is definitely down to DW, so please Mr Weir - Stop Being So Stubborn and realise this ISN'T working. Change it.

 

[wardonia_blade]

Callum McFadden has a tremendous shot as well, but never seen

 

[wardonia_blade]

Should read McFadzean before spell checker got invoved