Warnock Again :-)

[oldblade]

So who took us down in tue first place? let me guess..........someone else. Getting Warnock out was unfortunately done a year too late however, its the cockfest we replaced him with that really made things worse.

The person who took us down was the same one that took us up in the first place and even though relegated back to the championship we were still in far better shape than when he arrived.

It is arguable that Warnock may have had his faults (don't we all), but the side he left us with was far better than the one he started with and our prospects were much brighter than when he first stepped through the door. That is something that none of the managers we've had since him can say, and a good many of the ones we had before him!

Unfortunately I think some people allow their dislike of Warnock as a person (or the persona he proects in the media) to cloud their analysis of his record.

 

[sitwell]

do you remember the marvelous state the club was in when he came ? his legacy has kept Utd from going backrupt ,his input into the running of the club and Shirecliffe is convenietly forgotten as well as the fantastic times we had under him. Such a shame that some would rather remember him for the battle of bramall lane or the defeats at big clubs in the premier league rather than the semi finals and some of the amazing games and players he was responsible for. Think Pesch against Forest ,think Brown against the pigs and think Jags against Leeds then think of the shit under Robson,Speed and Blackwell. His other legacy is that unfortunatley we picked up a load of 'fans' during his time who were spoiled with great games and now love to slag off United.

 

[oldblade]

Some of the most exciting matches that I have ever seen United involved in occurred during Warnock's management of the club.

 

[Rodley]

Makes me chuckle, apart from Warnock's spell we've been pretty much shite since Bassett yet people still complain and hate him. Can't understand the mentality.

 

[JohnDenver]

Makes me chuckle, apart from Warnock's spell we've been pretty much shite since Bassett yet people still complain and hate him. Can't understand the mentality.

Warnock is a bit of a gobshite but he did some great things for us. Those things don't alter my assessment of his character, just as his character doesn't undermine his achievements. I wasn't calling for his head at any stage in his career here.

It is possible to appreciate his management without deifying the bloke. Look, I'm doing it right now.

 

[Bladesway]

I would like to think that given 8 years and christ knows how many different players the minimum requirement would be to leave in a higher division than we started in. While it is well documented I loathe the man it hasn't always been the case. Some of the best and worst games I have ever witnessed have been under Warnock. Whereas I have never felt the shame being a blade that I did on that day against West Brom.

I have never said however that I dont think he was capable at championship level. My argument on the footballing front is that he could never keep a team in the Premiership. And when it all goes fits up somehow it is never his fault. I read his book and quickly the pattern emerges. All starts well then things take a turn for the worse and Warnock goes into panic mode buying lots of low quality rather than investing in a good quality player. Then he gets the push but its not down to him.

As for better off when he left us, of course we were but didn't Kevin McCabe have some little influence in that? It was post Warnock that McCabe took leave of his senses employing idiots and spending money like water.

 

[oldblade]

I would like to think that given 8 years and christ knows how many different players the minimum requirement would be to leave in a higher division than we started in. While it is well documented I loathe the man it hasn't always been the case. Some of the best and worst games I have ever witnessed have been under Warnock. Whereas I have never felt the shame being a blade that I did on that day against West Brom.

I have never said however that I dont think he was capable at championship level. My argument on the footballing front is that he could never keep a team in the Premiership. And when it all goes fits up somehow it is never his fault. I read his book and quickly the pattern emerges. All starts well then things take a turn for the worse and Warnock goes into panic mode buying lots of low quality rather than investing in a good quality player. Then he gets the push but its not down to him.

As for better off when he left us, of course we were but didn't Kevin McCabe have some little influence in that? It was post Warnock that McCabe took leave of his senses employing idiots and spending money like water.

Warnock has so far never managed to keep a club in the premier league/first division, although we will never know whether or not he would have managed to do so with QPR. He was certainly making a better fist of it than Hughes has done this season.

And the only other side he took to the top flight apart from us was Notts County. Hardly a great surprise that he failed to keep them up. Some would regard it as a minor miracle that he got them there in the first place, rather than a failure that he didn't manage to keep them there.

With regard to our relegation, I think he can quite rightly claim that it wasn't all his fault. We finished 17th out of 19 clubs that played by the rules. One club chose to play outside of those rules in order to gain the services of a player that they would not otherwise have been able to use. Yes, matches and league positions are sorted out by on the pitch performances, but other sides performances also have a bearing on how we do. One club cheated and thereby gained an unfair advantage over us. In a tight race that can be crucial. I see it as no different to an athlete gaining an advantage by using a performance enhancing drug. After the 1988 olympic 100 metres final no one would argue that the placings should stand and that Ben Johnson should retain his gold medal and Karl Lewis put up with silver.

So, yes we were relegated, but in very very controversial circumstances, and Warnock (as well as anyone else associated with Sheffield United) has every right to feel aggrieved.

Anyway, I like the fact he will not accept blame. That shows me that he cares very deeply about his record and doesn't like it being tarnished. Is he any different to some of the top premier league managers in this respect? No. Look at how Ferguson etc look for excuses when things have gone against them. Do any of them ever say, "sorry, it was all my fault guv"? No they don't.

And what has the fact that Warnock was at the club for seven and a half years got to do with anything? For the vast majority of that time he was assembling and keeping together a side on a shoe string. Significant backing only came along in 2005-6 season when he was able to sign Ifill (which was his biggest transfer fee paid up until that time), and was able to increase the wage bill which is probably the only reason we managed to get players like Unsworth and Shippereley. So at the first time of asking when given any significant funds, we got promoted.

Of course Kevin McCabe had some influence in us being better off by the time Warnock left. But it seems to me you are happy to accept that others influenced our successes under Warnock, but not happy when Warnock blames other factors when things aren't going so well.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I would like to think that given 8 years and christ knows how many different players the minimum requirement would be to leave in a higher division than we started in. While it is well documented I loathe the man it hasn't always been the case. Some of the best and worst games I have ever witnessed have been under Warnock. Whereas I have never felt the shame being a blade that I did on that day against West Brom.

I have never said however that I dont think he was capable at championship level. My argument on the footballing front is that he could never keep a team in the Premiership. And when it all goes fits up somehow it is never his fault. I read his book and quickly the pattern emerges. All starts well then things take a turn for the worse and Warnock goes into panic mode buying lots of low quality rather than investing in a good quality player. Then he gets the push but its not down to him.

As for better off when he left us, of course we were but didn't Kevin McCabe have some little influence in that? It was post Warnock that McCabe took leave of his senses employing idiots and spending money like water.

It took Warnock 2.5 years to build his first great side. Probably the most exciting season we will ever see.
When that side was broken up, it took him another 2 years to build the promotion-winning side.
Any resources he was given he generated himself through player sales and increased attendances.
A large chunk of that extra income was spent on establishing the Academy that we're benefitting from now.

McCabe took leave of his senses when he didn't reward Warnock with a new contract after promotion.
We were favourites for relegation, so that outcome should have been anticipated and planned for.
Our aim should have been to yo-yo back up with the same manager and the team he'd built.
Can anybody seriously argue we wouldn't be in a better league and financial position if we'd done that?

P.S. Why would you buy the autobiography of somebody you "loathe"? Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf next?

 

[Bladesway]

It took Warnock 2.5 years to build his first great side. Probably the most exciting season we will ever see.
When that side was broken up, it took him another 2 years to build the promotion-winning side.
Any resources he was given he generated himself through player sales and increased attendances.
A large chunk of that extra income was spent on establishing the Academy that we're benefitting from now.

McCabe took leave of his senses when he didn't reward Warnock with a new contract after promotion.
We were favourites for relegation, so that outcome should have been anticipated and planned for.
Our aim should have been to yo-yo back up with the same manager and the team he'd built.
Can anybody seriously argue we wouldn't be in a better league and financial position if we'd done that?

P.S. Why would you buy the autobiography of somebody you "loathe"? Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf next?

Cathartic anger management maybe? Also to confirm my preconceived ideas that he really was a bell end. I never felt i knew Hitler and as he never managed sufc I'm struggling to find the connection.

As for your arguing whether we would have been better off, it doesn't really matter because neither of us can rewrite history. He is a nasty vindictive man. its all you ever need to know.

 

[oldblade]

Just been looking at the annual accounts over the last few years.

One or two things that might be of interest:

The total staff wage bill shown in the statement of accounts in 2006 (ie for the preceding the promotion season) was £13.668 million. That was some £2.5 million less than the wage bill for the side that achieved relegation to where we are now! (£16.113 million).

The total staff wage bill shown in the accounts for 2008 (ie after the Robson season) was £22.593 million which was some £2.5 million higher than the wage bill that Warnock had when in the premier league. (£20.059 million)

This year's accounts show that total wage bill for last season's failed promotion bid was £10.94 million. That is only £2.2 million less than the wage bill for Warnock's successful 2005-6 promotion to the premier league side.

Edit - And the wage bill shown in the 2008 accounts after our failed promotion play off final season was £22.392, some £8.7 million higher than Warnock's successful promotion season.

 

[oldblade]

Just been looking at the annual accounts over the last few years.

One or two things that might be of interest:

The total staff wage bill shown in the statement of accounts in 2006 (ie for the preceding the promotion season) was £13.668 million. That was some £2.5 million less than the wage bill for the side that achieved relegation to where we are now! (£16.113 million).

The total staff wage bill shown in the accounts for 2008 (ie after the Robson season) was £22.593 million which was some £2.5 million higher than the wage bill that Warnock had when in the premier league. (£20.059 million)

This year's accounts show that total wage bill for last season's failed promotion bid was £10.94 million. That is only £2.2 million less than the wage bill for Warnock's successful 2005-6 promotion to the premier league side.

Edit - And the wage bill shown in the 2008 accounts after our failed promotion play off final season was £22.392, some £8.7 million higher than Warnock's successful promotion season.

That should of course be £2.7 million less (not £2.2 million)!

 

[LSF]

He is a nasty vindictive man. its all you ever need to know.

Now I'm not disputing your right to hold that opinion of him, but to use such strong words would suggest you've had personal experience of this 'vindictiveness' - or is it just a perception?

 

[sitwell]

I had two personal experiences with Spackman which left me a deep feeling of hatred towards him and i think it did cloud my judgement of him as a manager although he was a shit player and has been a failure in management since. Warnock went out of his way big time for my lad whe he was at the Lane and the few times i have met him he has been very pleasant and friendly.
Blackwell was an arrogant cock the one time i had the misfortune of his company.
Howard Wilkinson was the worst I ever met ,also Pleat, didnt like Bassett , Trevor Francis was actually the nicest manager I have met.