Vote of Confidence....

[yuley82]

Dividing it 50/50 y82 the latest got is split 76/74 can't be much closer and can't be much good for the club or the run in.

Think the Scunny game is a decider, if we lose that one I think his position will to a degree be undeniable. That said I think he will stay until the end of the season.

I think your right, they sacked Wilson in the run in so they won't go that route again. But no promotion and he has to go. We are scrapping for the play offs no one if they really look at their selves can be happy with that!! 95% or more of blades expected us to be scrapping it out for auto's and claim play off spot easily if they say otherwise I'd say liars.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

I think your right, they sacked Wilson in the run in so they won't go that route again. But no promotion and he has to go. We are scrapping for the play offs no one if they really look at their selves can be happy with that!! 95% or more of blades expected us to be scrapping it out for auto's and claim play off spot easily if they say otherwise I'd say liars.

Why would the board sack a man who they brought in with a three year time table to get out of this league when there is a year left on the project?

 

[yuley82]

Why would the board sack a man who they brought in with a three year time table to get out of this league when there is a year left on the project?

You tell me, but a three year plan to get out of this league with our budget?! It's like sending a kid to private school but him/her (no sexism) still ending up on the dole..

 

[pommpey]

It's a fact of life, sacking the football manager can have a positive effect on a club!

Howard Kendall[44] England01995-12-13-000013 December 199501997-06-27-000027 June 19978234272141.46%
Spackman Nigel !Nigel Spackman[45] England01997-06-27-000027 June 199701998-03-02-00002 March 1998432017646.51%
Russell Slade[46] (acting) England01998-03-02-00002 March 199801998-03-09-00009 March 199820110%
Steve Thompson[47] (acting) England01998-03-09-00009 March 199801998-07-02-00002 July 19981756629.41%
Steve Bruce[48] England01998-07-02-00002 July 199801999-05-17-000017 May 19995522151840%
Adrian Heath[49] England01999-06-15-000015 June 199901999-11-23-000023 November 199922751031.82%
Russell Slade[46] (acting) England01999-11-23-000023 November 199901999-12-02-00002 December 199920110%
Neil Warnock[50] England01999-12-02-00002 December 199902007-05-16-000016 May 200738816510012342.53%
Bryan Robson[51] England02007-05-22-000022 May 200702008-02-14-000014 February 20083814121236.84%
Kevin Blackwell[52] England02008-02-14-000014 February 200802010-08-14-000014 August 201012553363642.4%
Gary Speed[53] Wales02010-08-17-000017 August 201002010-12-14-000014 December 20101869333.33%
John Carver[54] (acting) England02010-12-14-000014 December 201002010-12-30-000030 December 2010312033.33%
Micky Adams[55] England02010-12-30-000030 December 201002011-05-10-000010 May 201124415516.67%
Danny Wilson[56] Northern Ireland02011-05-27-000027 May 201102013-04-10-000010 April 201310655312051.89%
Chris Morgan (acting)[57] England02013-04-10-000010 April 201302013-06-10-000010 June 2013722328.57%
David Weir[58] Scotland02013-06-10-000010 June 201302013-10-11-000011 October 20131312107.69%
Chris Morgan (acting)[57] England02013-10-11-000011 October 201302013-10-23-000023 October 2013311133.33%
Nigel Clough[59] England02013-10-23-000023 October 2013Present6034141256.67%

Could you show us the working out on that one, please?

Face it people. We have Nigel Clough. He is here to stay. Sacking yet another manager because our team is dogshit and is beaten in embarrassing ways sorts fuck all out on the pitch, where the real problems are and up in the boardroom, where the real problems originate from. We have signed dud after dud with one bright spark every now and again (like Done) and yet because our back four play like shot donkeys, our midfield would be better off with Montgomery back playing with us and the goalkeeper is shitter than Jon Hope, suddenly it is Clough's fault.

I reiterate. Corralling a handful of Wikinobodies, ChampLeague squad players and desperate loanees isn't getting us promoted. We need a Central Defender who knows what he is doing, show the door to undroppables like Doyle and get him replaced with someone of merit in this country (and not fucking Scotland or anywhere like that) and get some sort of partner for Done to feed off or decoy for.

Judge Clough after the playoffs, and judge the board how serious they take him if we fail and how much they give him close season. If we are still kicking our heels in August and wondering if and when we are going to make our first signing (as has been the case) whilst everyone else is active in the TM then standby for more home defeats to shithole former Conf wannabes like fucking Fleetwood.

pommpey

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

No but changing doesn't work for us. I can't begin to explain why but it just doesn't. We sacked Wilson and look what happened, we sacked Blackwell and look what happened. FFS how we sacked someone as limited as Blackwell and still bombed is beyond me but that is the truth.

Also, Warnock on the back of a couple of Cup Semis early on and a tilt at the play offs got several years to get us promoted so why not give the guy a solid chance?

We steer the course for this season and then see how next season starts. Daft thing is many had given up on Warnock the season before we got promoted and look how that ended.

I think football is an utter clusterfuck of a situation for a manager. Armchair generals dictate how long you have even though they actually have no experience of how to do the job themselves. Our attention span appears to be getting shorter so do the managers life expectancy in a job.

What happens if Clough pulls off promotion next season and we put the next three year plan in place only to pick up one point out of nine again?

It would only be 2016 with a long time still to wait for 2019.

This really is a long term project.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Howard Kendall[44] England01995-12-13-000013 December 199501997-06-27-000027 June 19978234272141.46%
Spackman Nigel !Nigel Spackman[45] England01997-06-27-000027 June 199701998-03-02-00002 March 1998432017646.51%
Russell Slade[46] (acting) England01998-03-02-00002 March 199801998-03-09-00009 March 199820110%
Steve Thompson[47] (acting) England01998-03-09-00009 March 199801998-07-02-00002 July 19981756629.41%
Steve Bruce[48] England01998-07-02-00002 July 199801999-05-17-000017 May 19995522151840%
Adrian Heath[49] England01999-06-15-000015 June 199901999-11-23-000023 November 199922751031.82%
Russell Slade[46] (acting) England01999-11-23-000023 November 199901999-12-02-00002 December 199920110%
Neil Warnock[50] England01999-12-02-00002 December 199902007-05-16-000016 May 200738816510012342.53%
Bryan Robson[51] England02007-05-22-000022 May 200702008-02-14-000014 February 20083814121236.84%
Kevin Blackwell[52] England02008-02-14-000014 February 200802010-08-14-000014 August 201012553363642.4%
Gary Speed[53] Wales02010-08-17-000017 August 201002010-12-14-000014 December 20101869333.33%
John Carver[54] (acting) England02010-12-14-000014 December 201002010-12-30-000030 December 2010312033.33%
Micky Adams[55] England02010-12-30-000030 December 201002011-05-10-000010 May 201124415516.67%
Danny Wilson[56] Northern Ireland02011-05-27-000027 May 201102013-04-10-000010 April 201310655312051.89%
Chris Morgan (acting)[57] England02013-04-10-000010 April 201302013-06-10-000010 June 2013722328.57%
David Weir[58] Scotland02013-06-10-000010 June 201302013-10-11-000011 October 20131312107.69%
Chris Morgan (acting)[57] England02013-10-11-000011 October 201302013-10-23-000023 October 2013311133.33%
Nigel Clough[59] England02013-10-23-000023 October 2013Present6034141256.67%

Could you show us the working out on that one, please?

Face it people. We have Nigel Clough. He is here to stay. Sacking yet another manager because our team is dogshit and is beaten in embarrassing ways sorts fuck all out on the pitch, where the real problems are and up in the boardroom, where the real problems originate from. We have signed dud after dud with one bright spark every now and again (like Done) and yet because our back four play like shot donkeys, our midfield would be better off with Montgomery back playing with us and the goalkeeper is shitter than Jon Hope, suddenly it is Clough's fault.

I reiterate. Corralling a handful of Wikinobodies, ChampLeague squad players and desperate loanees isn't getting us promoted. We need a Central Defender who knows what he is doing, show the door to undroppables like Doyle and get him replaced with someone of merit in this country (and not fucking Scotland or anywhere like that) and get some sort of partner for Done to feed off or decoy for.

Judge Clough after the playoffs, and judge the board how serious they take him if we fail and how much they give him close season. If we are still kicking our heels in August and wondering if and when we are going to make our first signing (as has been the case) whilst everyone else is active in the TM then standby for more home defeats to shithole former Conf wannabes like fucking Fleetwood.

pommpey

that's not a bad post Pommpy, have a like.

 

[Blade56]

Yeses pulling ahead 53/47% but still shows (on this very small sample) the fans are divided on NC

 

[Balham]

Face it people. We have Nigel Clough. He is here to stay. Sacking yet another manager because our team is dogshit and is beaten in embarrassing ways sorts fuck all out on the pitch, where the real problems are and up in the boardroom, where the real problems originate from. We have signed dud after dud with one bright spark every now and again (like Done) and yet because our back four play like shot donkeys, our midfield would be better off with Montgomery back playing with us and the goalkeeper is shitter than Jon Hope, suddenly it is Clough's fault.

I reiterate. Corralling a handful of Wikinobodies, ChampLeague squad players and desperate loanees isn't getting us promoted. We need a Central Defender who knows what he is doing, show the door to undroppables like Doyle and get him replaced with someone of merit in this country (and not fucking Scotland or anywhere like that) and get some sort of partner for Done to feed off or decoy for.

Judge Clough after the playoffs, and judge the board how serious they take him if we fail and how much they give him close season. If we are still kicking our heels in August and wondering if and when we are going to make our first signing (as has been the case) whilst everyone else is active in the TM then standby for more home defeats to shithole former Conf wannabes like fucking Fleetwood.

pommpey

Agree on giving Clough to the end of the season, sacking him now would be a knee-jerk reaction of the highest order.

However, let's not forget that the side which performed so badly against Fleetwood was Clough's side: only Murphy, Doyle and Baxter pre-date Clough's time at the Lane. He's been given free rein to sign a squad load of players but the vast majority of them haven't really added to the quality - remember the "core of 18-20 players" that he said was his mantra in the summer?

Whether or not we get promoted out of this backwater division, Clough has some serious questions to answer in the close season. There are issues in the boardroom but Clough runs the football side so the buck has to stop with him.

I'll leave this here - it's a list of the players Clough has signed in his 16 months at the Lane. How many of them have improved the squad and addressed the major problems (lack of height at centre half, lack of dominant central midfielder and lack of pace up front)?

Turner
Brayford
Harris
McEveley
Basham
Freeman
Alcock
Coutts
Campbell-Ryce
Wallace K
Wallace J
Scougall
McNulty
Higdon
Done
Davies B
Holt
Adams

 

[pommpey]

... what Balham said ...

Turner - seemingly underperforming, gaffe-prone and unreliable
Brayford - yet to hit the potential of last season, but with a different midfield and back four to work with
Harris - occasional sparks but still inconsistent
McEveley - out of position and left wanting sometimes
Basham - see above
Freeman - underplayed
Alcock - underplayed
Coutts - seems to be a Trojan Horse of shit
Campbell-Ryce - can set the game on fire, but in and out of the squad - now permanently seemingly
Wallace K - out of the squad
Wallace J - out of the squad
Scougall - not matching any of last year's better games
McNulty - seemingly at odds with Clough
Higdon - whaleshit
Done - what the doctor ordered and would be deadlier in a pairing with a strike partner
Davies B - has turned the game on its head in the past, but now in the wilderness
Holt - see Coutts, but somehow I am optimistic h might be good
Adams - seems to be bristling with potential


So would you say his signings have been judgementally sound? Or do you think he has been shown the door when he went to the board for more expensive options?

pommpey

 

[grafikhaus]

Some good points, there Dl.

Thing for me is it is just so horrible to watch at times as once we score it seems we just want to sit back and hang on to what we've got. Understandable in the last few minutes but it's all the time.

I don't particularly think its the right time for him to go but the negative stuff needs to be saved for certain matches rather than every one. there are definitely teams in this league we should be beating by big margins as other teams can and are doing it and to do this now and again would give us a massive lift.

Spot on.

Could it be a first that we sneak up via the playoffs and the board still decide to get shut, personally I'd have no more confidence in him in the Championship as I do in League 1.

Again, agree totally. There are some people saying Clough would 'be a better manager in the Championship'. Not based on this:

And as for 'sneaking into the playoffs', have you seen the teams lining up to knock us out of the top six? Before the Peterborough game, we had an eight-point cushion. Now it's three. I'd guess that, after the Walsall game next midweek, we'll not be in the top six.

I think the real clincher would be if the crowds start to dwindle, strange really as the number of people who constantly say they can't keep watching this crap week in, week out and then 18000+ turn up at the next game to watch it, and I just thought it was me that was daft

Oh don't worry! 14-15k crowds next season.

 

[Bladesway]

You tell me, but a three year plan to get out of this league with our budget?! It's like sending a kid to private school but him/her (no sexism) still ending up on the dole..

I hope you didn't spend long on your analogy because its utter shit.

 

[Taramasalata]

I hope you didn't spend long on your analogy because its utter shit.

C'mon, its the free market putting the kid on the dole, not the fact he is having Jam tomorrow.

 

[Balham]

Turner - seemingly underperforming, gaffe-prone and unreliable
Brayford - yet to hit the potential of last season, but with a different midfield and back four to work with
Harris - occasional sparks but still inconsistent
McEveley - out of position and left wanting sometimes
Basham - see above
Freeman - underplayed
Alcock - underplayed
Coutts - seems to be a Trojan Horse of shit
Campbell-Ryce - can set the game on fire, but in and out of the squad - now permanently seemingly
Wallace K - out of the squad
Wallace J - out of the squad
Scougall - not matching any of last year's better games
McNulty - seemingly at odds with Clough
Higdon - whaleshit
Done - what the doctor ordered and would be deadlier in a pairing with a strike partner
Davies B - has turned the game on its head in the past, but now in the wilderness
Holt - see Coutts, but somehow I am optimistic h might be good
Adams - seems to be bristling with potential


So would you say his signings have been judgementally sound? Or do you think he has been shown the door when he went to the board for more expensive options?

pommpey

I think he's been given free rein to sign who he sees fit but I think his judgement has been pretty awful. Add to that the rumours about the removal of the pro-zone analysis and I wonder whether the job of managing a big club (despite our best efforts I think we still are, just about, a big club) in 2015 is too much for him.

Can't disagree with your analysis of his signings either. What I don't get is how players go from being integral to not even making the 18 in a very short space of time. I also don't remember Clough's Derby side being all that so quite why he's trying to recreate it is beyond me.

 

[Guesty]

Fickle is an understatement.

We now will need 10 wins out of the last 12 to get automatic and if we pulled it off there would still be people ready to jump off the Wicker Arches when the two loses hit us.

Fickle? If you'd told fans at the beginning of the season that we'd miss out on Automatic again we'd have been pissed off and we're pissed off now.

 

[ZoneManWilf]

I voted yes, but like many I am becoming increasingly unsure, the last few home matches have been depressing and very worrying.

Taking a step back and looking at us over the last decade, we have chopped and changed managers since the prem and we've landed in this mess. Is it cause or effect? Do we simply just keep making the wrong appointments, or are we contributing to our own downfall with the lack of stability? It is probably a bit of both, and I think it's too soon to act on Clough now.

I understand what a lot of people who want action now are saying, but he's only had a year and a half, I don't think it would be correct to abandon the plan now, especially whilst we're still in the playoffs. Though I agree that this team is woefully underperforming considering the wages and investment, especially this transfer window and that responsibility falls at Clough's feet. He's known about this centre half situation all year and it's a proving a makeshift mess, and I think this is one of the roots of our recent poor performances along with missing Howard. we do not have a solid base to the team.

The time for making a judgement though is at the end of the season, and we have played well at times this season, just with a maddening lack of consistency, so it's a possibility that this squad will find some form again. People point at the pigs and Huddersfield, but those examples of changing managers having a good effect so late in the season are few and far between, and at often ends in disaster and is even worse without any plan (see Wilson/Morgs).

Playoffs is a minimum though for Clough IMO. If fail to even make them with the level of resource compared to the rest of this league, then it's unacceptable.

 

[Blade56]

I voted yes, but like many I am becoming increasingly unsure, the last few home matches have been depressing and very worrying.

Taking a step back and looking at us over the last decade, we have chopped and changed managers since the prem and we've landed in this mess. Is it cause or effect? Do we simply just keep making the wrong appointments, or are we contributing to our own downfall with the lack of stability? It is probably a bit of both, and I think it's too soon to act on Clough now.

I understand what a lot of people who want action now are saying, but he's only had a year and a half, I don't think it would be correct to abandon the plan now, especially whilst we're still in the playoffs. Though I agree that this team is woefully underperforming considering the wages and investment, especially this transfer window and that responsibility falls at Clough's feet. He's known about this centre half situation all year and it's a proving a makeshift mess, and I think this is one of the roots of our recent poor performances along with missing Howard. we do not have a solid base to the team.

The time for making a judgement though is at the end of the season, and we have played well at times this season, just with a maddening lack of consistency, so it's a possibility that this squad will find some form again. People point at the pigs and Huddersfield, but those examples of changing managers having a good effect so late in the season are few and far between, and at often ends in disaster and is even worse without any plan (see Wilson/Morgs).

Playoffs is a minimum though for Clough IMO. If fail to even make them with the level of resource compared to the rest of this league, then it's unacceptable.

I voted no, it's a pole on "confidence" NOT sacking him.

You touch on our lack of a solid leader and CH, we had one Butler and let him go to Donny and he's been brilliant for them but not good enough for Clough. Donny are likely to,get one of the 5/6Th play off spot. Question is will we? That's why I voted no confidence!

 

[yorkshirecoast]

You would expect a manager to have at least 75% of his own club's fans behind him - ideally 90%+. The fact it is only 56% shows what a mess he is making of things.

And 56% is only the figure on here. Judging from the reaction at the last few games, I think the actual figure is less than 56%.

 

[JJ Sefton]

I voted no but I think he should stay until the end of the season or until its mathematically impossible to make the play offs.

We aren't going up this season and that isn't good enough.

 

[JJ Sefton]

Away games at Scunthorpe and Walsall are just what we need?

Must be a different Scunthorpe to the one we've not won at since the fifties.

Yes, but our beastly fans won't be there ruining Nigel's well laid plans.

 

[JJ Sefton]

One of the main reasons our team play so poorly at home is the abuse they get from our own fans.

No it isn't.

 

[Rossb123]

Clever thread, I don't think we should sack him and it would be a delusional decision when we have built a team of former Clough players to sack the man they all came here to play for. But long term with our Boards vision and our crowds expectations in my opinion he isn't the right man for the job no.

 

[Hodgyman]

A manager is an employee of the club, just the same as the playing staff. I f players aren't doing well, they get coaching to help them improve. If managers aren't doing well they normally lose their job. Perhaps they could be coached for improvement too. There are many training schemes for managers available commercially, ranging from 1:1 or Group sessions.

Shortcomings of Clough (in my opinion) are that he doesn't have great interpersonal skills exhibited by:
Berating players and supporters (eg man in row 10) publicly from the touchline and media
Having a "my way or the highway" attitude with the likes of Butler, McFadzian, Collins Diego etc.
Being stubborn in not making adjustments to the way the United team are operating.

It is perhaps quicker to achieve the improvements necessary by coachng the manager we already have than to start all over again with a new manager. If his stubbornness will not allow him to be coached, then we (SUFC) have to make our minds up whether he stays or goes. Stubbornness does not look good on anyone's CV for future employment

 

[longinthe toothblade]

You would expect a manager to have at least 75% of his own club's fans behind him - ideally 90%+. The fact it is only 56% shows what a mess he is making of things.

And 56% is only the figure on here. Judging from the reaction at the last few games, I think the actual figure is less than 56%.

Could well be - more interesting I think that there is such a high 'no confidence' vote when we are sitting in 5th position in the league with a game in hand? Perhaps many (the automatic promotion mob) are now realising that the run in is going to be a whole lot more difficult than first thought?

UTB

 

[Chicken with no head]

His first job for me this season,was for him to get us into the playoffs at least.
It's a lottery in the playoffs, so if we missed out, again next season we would have to be in the top 2 and get automatic promotion. Looking at who's coming down, the likely teams coming up and the time and money he's had its the very least he should have achieved

 

[yuley82]

I hope you didn't spend long on your analogy because its utter shit.

Sorry oh wise one, how dare anyone have something to say or question one of bladesway's posts!!

 

[Bladesway]

You would expect a manager to have at least 75% of his own club's fans behind him - ideally 90%+. The fact it is only 56% shows what a mess he is making of things.

And 56% is only the figure on here. Judging from the reaction at the last few games, I think the actual figure is less than 56%.

Of course you do. That's the way you roll.

 

[Bladesway]

Sorry oh wise one, how dare anyone have something to say or question one of bladesway's posts!!

Question it by all means but at least have the decency to use an analogy that comes close to making sense. In my opinion of course.

 

[yuley82]

Question it by all means but at least have the decency to use an analogy that comes close to making sense. In my opinion of course.

Now your just confusing me with all the analogy thingy mi jig...

 

[Lane Ender]

No promotion and it'll be 80% to 20% swing to No.

 

[WhiteHawk]

Add to that the rumours about the removal of the pro-zone analysis

What's this? Why would he not want to use Pro-Zone?