Roy's View From... View From The Neutrals

[I should coco]

I love it when deluded fans say that - remember another club's fans saying something similar a few years ago and even last season !!

Anybody saying "Billy Sharp is their star player" just telegraphs their own ignorance. What he actually means, is that Billy is our only player he has ever heard of. That is his problem, not ours.

He will be one of those Toon fans who watches all their games but nobody else's, harking back to the 'Wor Kev' glory years of finishing second twice and winning, er, bugger all.

Someone said on here a couple of months ago, that NUFC are a bunch of deluded twats about how big a club they think they are, and then drew the parallel with S6.

Never was an analogy more apt; Newcastle the 'Massive' of the Premier League!

 

[Nick Jansky]

Why are some people so bothered about Wednesday that one game requires 10 pages of thread? OK I no longer live in Sheffield but Wednesday are not on my radar except when we play them.

Agreed, and I live amongst the sad fuckers.

 

[NE Blade]

Anybody saying "Billy Sharp is their star player" just telegraphs their own ignorance. What he actually means, is that Billy is our only player he has ever heard of. That is his problem, not ours.

He will be one of those Toon fans who watches all their games but nobody else's, harking back to the 'Wor Kev' glory years of finishing second twice and winning, er, bugger all.

Someone said on here a couple of months ago, that NUFC are a bunch of deluded twats about how big a club they think they are, and then drew the parallel with S6.

Never was an analogy more apt; Newcastle the 'Massive' of the Premier League!

This. Newcastle are the pigs of the north east and Sunderland are the Blades.

 

[Kanye]

Which game(s) do you think we got it wrong?

Well I'd say the games we lost we obviously failed to "execute our game plan perfectly" - unless of course the game plan was to lose.

 

[super_pig]

This one sounds familiar.....

“Sheff United are a championship team that massively over achieved last season and have manage to continue it in to this season with hard work and team spirit. It won’t last and they’ll go down.”

pashun and momentum??

 

[The Crab]

Anybody saying "Billy Sharp is their star player" just telegraphs their own ignorance. What he actually means, is that Billy is our only player he has ever heard of. That is his problem, not ours.

He will be one of those Toon fans who watches all their games but nobody else's, harking back to the 'Wor Kev' glory years of finishing second twice and winning, er, bugger all.

Someone said on here a couple of months ago, that NUFC are a bunch of deluded twats about how big a club they think they are, and then drew the parallel with S6.

Never was an analogy more apt; Newcastle the 'Massive' of the Premier League!

Going to feel sick in my mouth typing this, the "other" massive have had cup success far more recently than Newcastle. Has another club of comparable size ever underachieved as monumentally as them?

 

[I should coco]

Has another club of comparable size ever overachieved as monumentally as them?

Did Vern have his boxing gloves on, when he typed that for you?

 

[The Crab]

Did Vern have his boxing gloves on, when he typed that for you?

I know, fucks sake! Edited now..............

 

[morgans_glare]

Cheers Roy, I've been lurking for a while now. Had a habit of checking our opponents forums before and after games sometimes so it's been great to read your blog posts! Very entertaining, love seeing a bitter Londoner or two moaning about how shit they are. UTB

 

[BushBlade]

Well I'd say the games we lost we obviously failed to "execute our game plan perfectly" - unless of course the game plan was to lose.

If that was the case then every time we lost it would be because we didn’t execute our game plan perfectly. That doesn’t take into account things like the opposition having better players than us. The logical progression of this is that provided we execute our game plan perfectly we will win every game.
I dislike that kind of thinking as it then leads to ‘Wilder got his tactics wrong’ posts every time we lose when it’s perfectly possible for a team to get everything right but still lose because they’re playing a team with better individuals who have a good game plan which they executed perfectly too.

 

[bromtom]

Going to feel sick in my mouth typing this, the "other" massive have had cup success far more recently than Newcastle. Has another club of comparable size ever underachieved as monumentally as them?

Nothing to show for it, but under Keegan, Dalglish, Gullitt, Robson, and Souness in the 90's and early 2000's, they were challenging for Premier League titles, getting to FA Cup finals multiple times, playing in the Champions League and reaching European quarter finals.

I dread to think what Wednesday fans would be like if they'd been anywhere near that successful.

 

[BushBlade]

Nothing to show for it, but under Keegan, Dalglish, Gullitt, Robson, and Souness in the 90's and early 2000's, they were challenging for Premier League titles, getting to FA Cup finals multiple times, playing in the Champions League and reaching European quarter finals.

I dread to think what Wednesday fans would be like if they'd been anywhere near that successful.

There’s a bit of hyperbole there though. If by ‘multiple times’ you mean twice, yes it’s factually correct but implies ‘several’. If by reaching ‘European quarter finals’ you mean the UEFA Cup, then again correct.
They had a period of success in the nineties but, like the pigs, this is bookended by periods of failure before and after. Pre-Keegan they were out of the top division and had flirted with insolvency.
Their supporters still think they should be competing at the top based on their attendances whilst failing to appreciate that the top six are global brands with much greater sources of revenue than them, to the extent that attendances are irrelevant.
Just like our porcine neighbours, they’re living in the past.

 

[bromtom]

There’s a bit of hyperbole there though. If by ‘multiple times’ you mean twice, yes it’s factually correct but implies ‘several’. If by reaching ‘European quarter finals’ you mean the UEFA Cup, then again correct.
They had a period of success in the nineties but, like the pigs, this is bookended by periods of failure before and after. Pre-Keegan they were out of the top division and had flirted with insolvency.
Their supporters still think they should be competing at the top based on their attendances whilst failing to appreciate that the top six are global brands with much greater sources of revenue than them, to the extent that attendances are irrelevant.
Just like our porcine neighbours, they’re living in the past.

All fair, but still think all of that is far more impressive than one league cup win, bias aside, in my opinion.

I suppose they were like Tottenham are now, not really going to win anything, haven't won anything but still talked about (just about) in the same breath as title challengers and cup winners.

 

[I should coco]

I suppose they were like Tottenham are now, not really going to win anything, haven't won anything but still talked about (just about) in the same breath as title challengers and cup winners.

Tottingham made the Champions League final last year and have consistently qualified for the competition for several years. Toon had a spell under Wor Kev then Sir Bobby but have generally flattered to deceive. They even had a spell back in La Liga just 10 years ago.

As BushBlade said, they confuse attendances/loyalty with success. Spurs new ground (60k) isn't that much bigger than Toon's (52k) but given their commercial side and being London based, I'd be amazed if their match day revenue isn't 3 or 4 that times Toons.

No, I much prefer the Toon = Wendy, school of entitled bollocks.

 

[bromtom]

Tottingham made the Champions League final last year and have consistently qualified for the competition for several years. Toon had a spell under Wor Kev then Sir Bobby but have generally flattered to deceive. They even had a spell back in La Liga just 10 years ago.

As BushBlade said, they confuse attendances/loyalty with success. Spurs new ground (60k) isn't that much bigger than Toon's (52k) but given their commercial side and being London based, I'd be amazed if their match day revenue isn't 3 or 4 that times Toons.

No, I much prefer the Toon = Wendy, school of entitled bollocks.

Don't disagree that they're entitled now, they're shite, have been for years and were it not for Rafa they'd be floundering around in the top 10 of the Championship.

It's like Leeds Vs Wendy though in the "we deserve to be in the top division" stakes, Leeds have a leg to stand on although it's wobbling. Wednesday don't.

 

[Blend-it-like-Harris]

Couldn't find a single comment from them about the match

One of 'em couldn't find his Sky remote and the other 10 went to the wrong pub.

 

[gordoncharles]

Tottingham made the Champions League final last year and have consistently qualified for the competition for several years. Toon had a spell under Wor Kev then Sir Bobby but have generally flattered to deceive. They even had a spell back in La Liga just 10 years ago.

As BushBlade said, they confuse attendances/loyalty with success. Spurs new ground (60k) isn't that much bigger than Toon's (52k) but given their commercial side and being London based, I'd be amazed if their match day revenue isn't 3 or 4 that times Toons.

No, I much prefer the Toon = Wendy, school of entitled bollocks.

Just so you can see the differences for 2017-18:

Match receipts: Spurs 71m Newcastle 24m
TV & Media: Spurs 148m Newcastle 126m
Commercial: Spurs 109m Newcastle 28m
UEFA Prize Money: Spurs 53m Newcastle 0

Total revenue: Spurs 381m Newcastle 178m

 

[Cheesebored]

Going to feel sick in my mouth typing this, the "other" massive have had cup success far more recently than Newcastle. Has another club of comparable size ever underachieved as monumentally as them?

Us? And before people chuck current attendances at me check out theirs in the late 1970s, early1980s. Same as Sunderland. Often poorly supported in those days.

 

[Blend-it-like-Harris]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here; we've played 9 games and only 5 of the teams we've played are in the top 6. Also - all the teams we've taken points from were really shite on the day.

We cannot possibly judge how we might be able to avoid relegation based on our performances in games against the likes of Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal. It's only after we've played teams like Norwich, Newcastle, and Brighton that we can get some true measure of our survival chances.

 

[I should coco]

ust so you can see the differences for 2017-18:

Match receipts: Spurs 71m Newcastle 24m
TV & Media: Spurs 148m Newcastle 126m
Commercial: Spurs 109m Newcastle 28m
UEFA Prize Money: Spurs 53m Newcastle 0

Total revenue: Spurs 381m Newcastle 178m

That was all at the old WHL so Spurs new ground will have massively increased all of those lines except perhaps their TV share.

Is there a mistake, as you haven't included Wendy in the above comparison of massive club revenues?

 

[Kanye]

If that was the case then every time we lost it would be because we didn’t execute our game plan perfectly. That doesn’t take into account things like the opposition having better players than us. The logical progression of this is that provided we execute our game plan perfectly we will win every game.
I dislike that kind of thinking as it then leads to ‘Wilder got his tactics wrong’ posts every time we lose when it’s perfectly possible for a team to get everything right but still lose because they’re playing a team with better individuals who have a good game plan which they executed perfectly too.

Fair point BB, I understand where you coming from.

I get that there will be games where we choose the right 'game plan', employ suitable tactics, but due to the gulf in quality between the opposition and ourselves, we come up short.

I'm not sure that's the been the case this season yet, certainly not in every game we've lost. Which was my point: I don't think we've executed our game plan perfectly in every game.
And I understand your point about that mentality opening up Wilder's tactics to criticism, but I think it's possible that the game plan can be suitable (which is Wilder's responsibility) but the execution is off (which is the player's responsibility.)

I think that's illustrated by the fact that all 7 of the goals we've conceded can be attributed to an individual error, rather than a pure difference in quality: Wilder's approach may have been correct, but lapses in concentration or decision making from the players cost us points. And that's not a criticism of the players either; they're human and make mistakes. I'm just trying to make that point that, so far, the results have been in our hands, rather than dictated by our opponents.

 

[BushBlade]

That was all at the old WHL so Spurs new ground will have massively increased all of those lines except perhaps their TV share.

Is there a mistake, as you haven't included Wendy in the above comparison of massive club revenues?

Wasn’t that at Wembley?

 

[BushBlade]

All fair, but still think all of that is far more impressive than one league cup win, bias aside, in my opinion.

I suppose they were like Tottenham are now, not really going to win anything, haven't won anything but still talked about (just about) in the same breath as title challengers and cup winners.

I can’t agree they’re like Tottenham either, the first club to do the double in the 20th century, UEFA Cup winners (twice I think), FA Cup Winners 8 times, league cup winners 4 times, European Cup Winners Cup winners.
Far better record of success than Newcastle, much bigger fan base. They slipped behind during the Sugar years but they’ve always been a big club.

 

[gordoncharles]

Is there a mistake, as you haven't included Wendy in the above comparison of massive club revenues?

It's hard because you have to make some assumptions about Wednesday's split between match revenue and media, but for the sake of completeness

Match receipts: Spurs 71m Newcastle 24m Massive 9m
TV & Media: Spurs 148m Newcastle 126m Massive 7m
Commercial: Spurs 109m Newcastle 28m Massive 6m
UEFA Prize Money: Spurs 53m Newcastle 0 Massive 0

Total revenue: Spurs 381m Newcastle 178m Massive 22m

 

[Robboblade1889]

Fantastic thread Roygbiv loved reading those comments. To be spoken about by the majority of other supporters is testament to what Mr Wilder and his team have done. What a time to be a blade and just to top it off here is a view from Sheffield Wednesday

 

[bromtom]

I can’t agree they’re like Tottenham either, the first club to do the double in the 20th century, UEFA Cup winners (twice I think), FA Cup Winners 8 times, league cup winners 4 times, European Cup Winners Cup winners.
Far better record of success than Newcastle, much bigger fan base. They slipped behind during the Sugar years but they’ve always been a big club.

I don't mean Tottenham as a whole, Tottenham now, Tottenham PochSpur.

Occupying a similar position as the decent team in with a chance of stuff, but not getting any of it.

 

[BushBlade]

Fair point BB, I understand where you coming from.

I get that there will be games where we choose the right 'game plan', employ suitable tactics, but due to the gulf in quality between the opposition and ourselves, we come up short.

I'm not sure that's the been the case this season yet, certainly not in every game we've lost. Which was my point: I don't think we've executed our game plan perfectly in every game.
And I understand your point about that mentality opening up Wilder's tactics to criticism, but I think it's possible that the game plan can be suitable (which is Wilder's responsibility) but the execution is off (which is the player's responsibility.)

I think that's illustrated by the fact that all 7 of the goals we've conceded can be attributed to an individual error, rather than a pure difference in quality: Wilder's approach may have been correct, but lapses in concentration or decision making from the players cost us points. And that's not a criticism of the players either; they're human and make mistakes. I'm just trying to make that point that, so far, the results have been in our hands, rather than dictated by our opponents.

I don’t want to come across as argumentative but I’ve always seen consistency as being part of quality. That’s often the difference between a top class player and an average PL player. A top class player tends to be good nine games out of ten and rarely makes big mistakes, an average PL player might have 6 or 7 good games out of ten and make more mistakes. Other than that, they tend to have a similar level of technical ability and physical attributes.

Or to put it another way, most PL strikers will score goals like Ronaldo once in a while or do a dribble like Messi but only the best ones do it regularly. And most defenders will have a game where they look like Van Dijk but they’ll make more errors and won’t play at that level every week.

 

[I should coco]

I don’t want to come across as argumentative

Why, have you had a bang on the head?

 

[BushBlade]

I don't mean Tottenham as a whole, Tottenham now, Tottenham PochSpur.

Occupying a similar position as the decent team in with a chance of stuff, but not getting any of it.

Tbf, I reckon if you asked any Spurs fan about Newcastle’s collapse in the famous ‘I’d love it’ season they’d agree that it was very ‘Spursy’.

 

[Isaw Joeshaw]

Fantastic thread Roygbiv loved reading those comments. To be spoken about by the majority of other supporters is testament to what Mr Wilder and his team have done. What a time to be a blade and just to top it off here is a view from Sheffield Wednesday

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I have two pig acquaintances aged around 80 who will tell you , in all seriousness , that they get more bad decisions given against them than any other team in the country and that it has been like that throughout their lifetime .

Anyone who thinks that their self pitying persecution complex is a relatively recent phenomenon should think again .

Fuck 'em .