Updates from the Wilder

[Pinchy]

As a matter of interest, how would you describe the football played by United in this video?
Proper football? Dominating possession? Often ending in an attempt on goal? (stats will confirm)
or Alehouse football? Tearing around aimlessly? Chasing shadows? Nowt-fancy? Anti-football?

I dunno. Maybe it's somewhere in between...

The first thing is to accept that we beat Spurs 6-0 and that there was a time and place for Bassett's Hoof. I have never argued to the contrary. My point is that it's now discredited and redundant. It is, no matter how much S2 Hoofers pine for it.

Anyway, the footage:

Skill from Hodges and Deane, our only proper footballers, but mainly alehouse I'm afraid. Spurs defence played as though they'd had a bet didn't they? Some of those goals ought to have been investigated by the police!

Hoof from the kick-off. Repeated Hoofs from Barnes, Beesley and Gayle (one of which entirely unintentionally and hilariously creates a goal as the Spurs defence seems to have been abducted by aliens).

One decent spell of passing in the entire clip. Players launching it forrad without even looking up. It worked then but wouldn't work now, which is why the whole of football has abandoned it, save for remote pockets of deepest, darkest S2.

Large gaps in the crowd noted. A hallmark of DD's tenure, when many voted with their feet.

Give me Tuftyball every time. Passing with purpose rather than Hoof and Hope.

I could, of course, display the league cup tie at Highbury when Arsenal schoolboys embarrassed Monty and Co 6-0. Available on request. No? I thought not...

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Personally, I'd call it 'direct'. We don't build from the back, we launch it into their half and look to pick up the second ball. We tended to play the ball forwards when possible and look to gain territory rather than retain possession. We looked to capitalise on set pieces. We did press from the front to try to cause defensive errors (successfully in this game).
It's certainly not the anti-football we saw under Blackwell (and sometimes Bassett and Warnock) but it's very different from what we play now.

I think the things we took from then to now are the harassing of defenders, the high tempo and the team work ethic and spirit.

I broadly agree but if the current team scored some of those goals, we would all be raving about the skill and quality shown.
We didn't thrash the 8th best team in the top division simply because we played in a certain style. We had good, skilful players then too.
I enjoyed the football then and I'm enjoying the football now. I will always enjoy watching us create chances, score goals and win matches.
We don't need to denigrate our few successful teams and managers of the past in order to show appreciation for the present.

 

[Benny and the Blades]

I've watched both styles and enjoyed both styles and after many years of study I've come to the conclusion the only football I really enjoy is winning football.....

 

[boo radley]

We are playing pass and move football. We dominate possession, as the merest glance at our match statistics will confirm. We routinely have 10-20 passes and more without the opposition getting anywhere near us, often ending in an attempt on goal (again stats will confirm). We keep the ball; we don't turn the beautiful game into a succession of 50/50 challenges

That is proper football. It is Barcelona not Wimbledon. It is light years from anything your heroes DD and OBN would produce, or even understand. Wilder's Tuftyball would confuse and bewilder the old Hoofers. It is the complete antithesis of alehouse football. A phrase coined by the late, great Bill Shankly, of whom you may have heard? He knew what he was talking about.

You don't understand it, either. This we know, because you have asked me more than once to explain to you the concepts of "proper footballer" and the "right way" even though both phrases are in common usage by top players and managers, including guess who? That's right, Tufty himself. They mean playing football, Boo. Proper football. Not the ragamuffin, raggy-arsed tearing around aimlesssly, tirelessly chasing shadows, muckanettles, nowt-fancy, anti-football that you admire so much. As I have told you before, if you need to ask the question, you won't understand the answer, and you don't, that's perfectly clear.

So, your attempt to claim Tuftyball as your own is exposed for the disingenuous nonsense it so obviously is. Your attempt to turn Bassett base metal into Tufty Gold is risible. Your touchstone is damaged beyond repair. It's as redundant as a fax machine.

You Hoofers are in glorious retreat as football rises again at The Lane after far, far too long. It's Dunkirk for the Dinosaurs. It's glorious for the beautiful game.

Thank Pele. Thank Tufty.

❤. ❤⚔.

So you agree with me then that you were late to the party.
CWs football was always my football when you had the doubts but because of your previous cock ups when saying Weir was king etc.
Every manager that comes to this club, I want to be the best manager the club has ever had.
The difference between you and me is that you either rubbish them before the chance or claim they are the best thing since sliced bread before you give them a chance to fail.
Your disguise of knowing the best is a poor attempt to cover up your mistakes. And your claim about dinosaur and your so called Hoof posters just let's you down as the fake you are.
Your ridgitiy of "only one way" shows you actually no nothing.
Chris Wilder has shown there are many different ways and that he is willing to give players a chance that you would no doubt write off.
To all the newbies. Do not get fooled by some "know nowt" who wishes to impose his view on you. Your opinions will be respected by the majority on here even if not agreed with.
Players like Kieran Freeman, Matt Done and Paul Coutts deserve the chance to improve their game.

 

[sheffielder]

Who do you drop though if we were to bring him in?

Hanson.

Carruthers and Duffy in free roles behind Sharp would cause some damage in my opinion.

 

[Pinchy]

So you agree with me then that you were late to the party.
CWs football was always my football when you had the doubts but because of your previous cock ups when saying Weir was king etc.
Every manager that comes to this club, I want to be the best manager the club has ever had.
The difference between you and me is that you either rubbish them before the chance or claim they are the best thing since sliced bread before you give them a chance to fail.
Your disguise of knowing the best is a poor attempt to cover up your mistakes. And your claim about dinosaur and your so called Hoof posters just let's you down as the fake you are.
Your ridgitiy of "only one way" shows you actually no nothing.
Chris Wilder has shown there are many different ways and that he is willing to give players a chance that you would no doubt write off.
To all the newbies. Do not get fooled by some "know nowt" who wishes to impose his view on you. Your opinions will be respected by the majority on here even if not agreed with.
Players like Kieran Freeman, Matt Done and Paul Coutts deserve the chance to improve their game.

And that, boys and girls, is an essay in stuffing paragraphs with words of no substance; failing entirely to address unanswerable points. It is known as the Hoofers' Retreat. It is as inelegant and unimpressive as the anti-football they hold so dear.

 

[S64 Blade]

Not that I would, but would any one consider a change of formation to accommodate Carruthers (or someone else).

No. If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

Happy for Caruthers to come in for Duffy, who has had a poor end product the last couple of games. I wouldn't want us changing our whole approach to do this though.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Hanson.

Carruthers and Duffy in free roles behind Sharp would cause some damage in my opinion.

Hmmm......I've thought myself about both Duffy and Caruthers in the same team and how "attack" minded it would be.

In that scenario, you can't leave Fleck and Coutts out, so the 2nd forward has to go.

One up top has a certain reminder to Clough in a way, but it would be an experiment worth trying. It's the sort of thing that with a solid back 3 with Coutts and Fleck in front could cause a lot of havoc next season.

Like it a lot as a concept.

UTB

 

[BushBlade]

I broadly agree but if the current team scored some of those goals, we would all be raving about the skill and quality shown.
We didn't thrash the 8th best team in the top division simply because we played in a certain style. We had good, skilful players then too.
I enjoyed the football then and I'm enjoying the football now. I will always enjoy watching us create chances, score goals and win matches.
We don't need to denigrate our few successful teams and managers of the past in order to show appreciation for the present.

I loved the Bassett years but for the sake of balance, that wasn't the 8th best team in the league that we beat. They rested several key players (for an FA Cup game, how quaint does that seem now?) and had a reputation for not showing up for games on a wet Tuesday night up north. They just weren't at it, we were.

Good goals, yes, but we were in the top division so you'd expect to see a bit of quality.

 

[Pinchy]

I've watched both styles and enjoyed both styles and after many years of study I've come to the conclusion the only football I really enjoy is winning football.....

That I'm afraid is the classic Hoofers' Fallacy. History shows that proper football is the way to win matches. Hoof went out with the Dinosaurs.

Hoofers,

Come out of HIDing and show yourselves. Tell me why Tufty frequently speaks of the "Right way"? What does he mean when he calls Sam Carruthers a "proper footballer"?

None of your sophistry bollocks, please. The phrases are in common usage and everyone but you knows exactly what they mean.

You lost the argument decades ago. Time to accept reality. Take solace in your Wimbledon and Watford videos. Leave football to those who appreciate it.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

That I'm afraid is the classic Hoofers' Fallacy. History shows that proper football is the way to win matches. Hoof went out with the Dinosaurs.

Hoofers,

Come out of HIDing and show yourselves. Tell me why Tufty frequently speaks of the "Right way"? What does he mean when he calls Sam Carruthers a "proper footballer"?

None of your sophistry bollocks, please. The phrases are in common usage and everyone but you knows exactly what they mean.

You lost the argument decades ago. Time to accept reality. Take solace in your Wimbledon and Watford videos. Leave football to those who appreciate it.

Leicester City - 2015/16 - English champions - style of play? Direct.

 

[Pinchy]

I broadly agree but if the current team scored some of those goals, we would all be raving about the skill and quality shown.
We didn't thrash the 8th best team in the top division simply because we played in a certain style. We had good, skilful players then too.
I enjoyed the football then and I'm enjoying the football now. I will always enjoy watching us create chances, score goals and win matches.
We don't need to denigrate our few successful teams and managers of the past in order to show appreciation for the present.

No, indeed, we dont. What is deeply objectionable, however, are the increasing, disingenuous and contemptible attempts to pretend that Wilder's football is somehow descended from Bassett and Warnock. That insults football, Tufty and the intelligence. It isn't. It's infinitely better. It's proper football.

I know people try to pretend it doesn't happen, but he consistently preaches the "right way" and "playing football". The Hoofers may not like it but don't try to distort what he means. He means the same as everyone else who uses those phrases. He doesn't have in mind Brian Gayle...

Why people can't leave the Dinosaurs in the past where they belong, I simply can't understand. I am forced to the inevitable conclusion that they favour ugly, alehouse anti-football.

 

[I should coco]

Why people can't leave the Dinosaurs in the past where they belong, I simply can't understand. I am forced to the inevitable conclusion that they favour ugly, alehouse anti-football.

Why can't the people who keep going on about 'the people who can't leave the dinosaurs in the past....' just give it a rest?

This constant drip-drip-drip to disassociate Wilder from a manager he played for many times is tedious. Sticking the odd long word and putting 'proper football' and the 'right way' in itallics does not a case make.

It is semantics whether Wilder's game is pressing, fast paced, direct or built from the back. At times it is all of this, but much more importantly it is attractive to watch and it is WINNING football.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

 

[Harrisblade]

Why can't the people who keep going on about 'the people who can't leave the dinosaurs in the past....' just give it a rest?

This constant drip-drip-drip to disassociate Wilder from a manager he played for many times is tedious. Sticking the odd long word and putting 'proper football' and the 'right way' in itallics does not a case make.

It is semantics whether Wilder's game is pressing, fast paced, direct or built from the back. At times it is all of this, but much more importantly it is attractive to watch and it is WINNING football.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

Why people can't leave the Dinosaurs in the past where they belong, I simply can't understand. I am forced to the inevitable conclusion that they favour ugly, alehouse anti-football.

The lady is really protesting about the fact that the lady's opinion is not exalted by all who come across it

 

[Pinchy]

Leicester City - 2015/16 - English champions - style of play? Direct.

Carry on...

The internet hasn't enough space for me to detail the achievements of footballing teams...

Not that Mahrez and Co were Bassett style Hoofers by the way. That's yet another to add to the list of S2 fallacies.

If the Blades were not so dear to me I'd be tempted to hope it all goes pear shaped and the Hoofers' wish prevails. The return of Muckanettles Upanatem Morgan. "Nowt Fancy, like Bassett". They richly deserve him.

 

[Pinchy]

Why can't the people who keep going on about 'the people who can't leave the dinosaurs in the past....' just give it a rest?

This constant drip-drip-drip to disassociate Wilder from a manager he played for many times is tedious. Sticking the odd long word and putting 'proper football' and the 'right way' in itallics does not a case make.

It is semantics whether Wilder's game is pressing, fast paced, direct or built from the back. At times it is all of this, but much more importantly it is attractive to watch and it is WINNING football.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

Have a look at the clip again. If you think the present team plays like that, there's nothing I can do to help you. There's a big clue right from the kick-off. The conspicuous absence of passing the ball to each other then assists. Wilder's team jealously guards the crucial importance of keeping the ball. Bassett's delighted in giving it away. They couldn't be more different. You can carry on pretending all you like but it doesn't fool me.

Madness. Daft Diplodocus Dave Devotion. Madness.

The phrases are Chris Wilder's by the way, not mine. They won't go away, no matter how much the Hoofers wish and hope. Thorn in the side, I know, but that's football. Proper football.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I loved the Bassett years but for the sake of balance, that wasn't the 8th best team in the league that we beat. They rested several key players (for an FA Cup game, how quaint does that seem now?) and had a reputation for not showing up for games on a wet Tuesday night up north. They just weren't at it, we were.

Good goals, yes, but we were in the top division so you'd expect to see a bit of quality.

The only players they left out against us were Edinburgh, Ruddock and Sedgely.
Their replacements being Van Den Hauwe, Cundy and Gray (Two full internationals and an U21 England International).
Leaving out "several key players" is therefore a bit of an exaggeration.
Thorsvedt, Austin, Mabbut, Allen, Anderton, Sheringham, Samways and Nayim all played in both games.

As mentioned in the other thread, we also had an FA Cup Quarter Final on the Saturday before Spurs played theirs on the Sunday.
We've already had the "Spurs played only 2 days before we beat them" excuse made for them. They didn't.
Now we've had the accusation that Spurs players were bribed to lose. Really?

I'm not sure why people can't just accept that it was a brilliant performance and victory by United on the night instead of trying to find reasons/excuses to belittle it.

 

[Tunstall Fred]

The only players they left out against us were Edinburgh, Ruddock and Sedgely.
Their replacements being Van Den Hauwe, Cundy and Gray (Two full internationals and an U21 England International).
Leaving out "several key players" is therefore a bit of an exaggeration.
Thorsvedt, Austin, Mabbut, Allen, Anderton, Sheringham, Samways and Nayim all played in both games.

As mentioned in the other thread, we also had an FA Cup Quarter Final on the Saturday before Spurs played theirs on the Sunday.
We've already had the "Spurs played only 2 days before we beat them" excuse made for them. They didn't.
Now we've had the accusation that Spurs players were bribed to lose. Really?

I'm not sure why people can't just accept that it was a brilliant performance and victory by United on the night instead of trying to find reasons/excuses to belittle it.

Agenda

 

[BushBlade]

The only players they left out against us were Edinburgh, Ruddock and Sedgely.
Their replacements being Van Den Hauwe, Cundy and Gray (Two full internationals and an U21 England International).
Leaving out "several key players" is therefore a bit of an exaggeration.
Thorsvedt, Austin, Mabbut, Allen, Anderton, Sheringham, Samways and Nayim all played in both games.

As mentioned in the other thread, we also had an FA Cup Quarter Final on the Saturday before Spurs played theirs on the Sunday.
We've already had the "Spurs played only 2 days before we beat them" excuse made for them. They didn't.
Now we've had the accusation that Spurs players were bribed to lose. Really?

I'm not sure why people can't just accept that it was a brilliant performance and victory by United on the night instead of trying to find reasons/excuses to belittle it.

What? Who's accused them of taking bribes?

 

[BushBlade]

Agenda

NO FUCKING AGENDA.

 

[I should coco]

Have a look at the clip again. If you think the present team plays like that, there's nothing I can do to help you. There's a big clue right from the kick-off. The conspicuous absence of passing the ball to each other then assists. Wilder's team jealously guards the crucial importance of keeping the ball. Bassett's delighted in giving it away. They couldn't be more different. You can carry on pretending all you like but it doesn't fool me.

What does seem to 'fool you' is people who haven't typed what you think they have typed.

I made no reference to the Spurs game or Basset's preferred style of play. Having said that, I would be amazed if CW hasn't taken in some of Basset's ethos of strong team spirit, fitness and an energy and passion in play.

Don't let it stop you getting another dig in at the massed legions of S2 hoofers though.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

What? Who's accused them of taking bribes?

Not you but it shouldn't be too difficult to guess who posted:-

"Spurs defence played as though they'd had a bet didn't they? Some of those goals ought to have been investigated by the police!"

 

[BushBlade]

Not you but it shouldn't be too difficult to guess who posted:-

"Spurs defence played as though they'd had a bet didn't they? Some of those goals ought to have been investigated by the police!"

Sorry, I thought you were saying I'd said it. Absolutely not. It was just a typical Spurs soft as shite, don't fancy it, performance.
As Neville has said, Fergie's team talk against them used to be 'lads, it's Spurs' and that was enough.

Had we approached the game with the same attitude we could well have lost but Bassett wouldn't tolerate that kind of thinking. They were good days and no one can tell me otherwise.

 

[Harrisblade]

Sorry, I thought you were saying I'd said it. Absolutely not. It was just a typical Spurs soft as shite, don't fancy it, performance.
As Neville has said, Fergie's team talk against them used to be 'lads, it's Spurs' and that was enough.

Had we approached the game with the same attitude we could well have lost but Bassett wouldn't tolerate that kind of thinking. They were good days and no one can tell me otherwise.

Oh yes they can:

You lost the argument decades ago. Time to accept reality. Take solace in your Wimbledon and Watford videos. Leave football to those who appreciate it.

 

[Pinchy]

The only players they left out against us were Edinburgh, Ruddock and Sedgely.
Their replacements being Van Den Hauwe, Cundy and Gray (Two full internationals and an U21 England International).
Leaving out "several key players" is therefore a bit of an exaggeration.
Thorsvedt, Austin, Mabbut, Allen, Anderton, Sheringham, Samways and Nayim all played in both games.

As mentioned in the other thread, we also had an FA Cup Quarter Final on the Saturday before Spurs played theirs on the Sunday.
We've already had the "Spurs played only 2 days before we beat them" excuse made for them. They didn't.
Now we've had the accusation that Spurs players were bribed to lose. Really?

I'm not sure why people can't just accept that it was a brilliant performance and victory by United on the night instead of trying to find reasons/excuses to belittle it.

Well parts of it (the absence of passing and the obvious hoofing) were far from brilliant. Let's assume it was brilliant, though. What is the relevance to football today?

 

[Booker4]

When Wilder says no contract talks are taking place for now, am I right in saying in an earlier interview that Wilder confirmed that many would trigger another year as part of their existing deals, when they hit a certain number of games? Freeman and Coutts spring to mind.

 

[boo radley]

And that, boys and girls, is an essay in stuffing paragraphs with words of no substance; failing entirely to address unanswerable points. It is known as the Hoofers' Retreat. It is as inelegant and unimpressive as the anti-football they hold so dear.

And that boys and girls is the usual disreputable post because he fails to answer the points raised or admit he looks down on everyone else on this forum. Fails again to disguise the fact he is the most ultra repetitive poster claiming some sort of moral football high ground. You may try to dress it up in a smart suit and tie but underneath it is still the dirty not had a shower or deodorised same old drivel he usually posts. Don't be fooled or put off by his disguise that he loves a high ball and his super Doyle type player. He is so anti variation football that you would get confused if he stood beside his beloved cone.
Again newbies do not let him put you off.
You are most welcome on here despite the fact he hates anyone else having an opinion.
It is not his forum it belongs to admins who kindly give us a platform to share.
I'm sure he was the kid we all knew who took his ball home.

 

[BushBlade]

Oh yes they can:

Trying and succeeding are very different things, as our porcine friends found out last May.

 

[coolhandluke]

That I'm afraid is the classic Hoofers' Fallacy. History shows that proper football is the way to win matches. Hoof went out with the Dinosaurs.

Hoofers,

Come out of HIDing and show yourselves. Tell me why Tufty frequently speaks of the "Right way"? What does he mean when he calls Sam Carruthers a "proper footballer"?

None of your sophistry bollocks, please. The phrases are in common usage and everyone but you knows exactly what they mean.

You lost the argument decades ago. Time to accept reality. Take solace in your Wimbledon and Watford videos. Leave football to those who appreciate it.

CW rates Dave Bassett as our best manager in his lifetime .

Get that hoof ball loving , hoofwaffe squadron leader , anti proper footballing , relic supporting dinosaur out of my club now ..... fucking know nowt twat

 

[Harrisblade]

And that boys and girls is the usual disreputable post because he fails to answer the points raised or admit he looks down on everyone else on this forum. Fails again to disguise the fact he is the most ultra repetitive poster claiming some sort of moral football high ground. You may try to dress it up in a smart suit and tie but underneath it is still the dirty not had a shower or deodorised same old drivel he usually posts. Don't be fooled or put off by his disguise that he loves a high ball and his super Doyle type player. He is so anti variation football that you would get confused if he stood beside his beloved cone.
Again newbies do not let him put you off.
You are most welcome on here despite the fact he hates anyone else having an opinion.
It is not his forum it belongs to admins who kindly give us a platform to share.
I'm sure he was the kid we all knew who took his ball home.

But to be fair, he did love David Weir!