Transfer targets

[robbiez666]

Sort of shot yourself in the foot there.

"It's only players who might make squads who you have to wait on"

So basically you're saying we should be signing players miles away from "squad ready" just to satisfy the bedwetters that want signings RIGHT NOW??

No, I'm not. I'm saying there will be good young players at EPL teams who will be available because they aren't going to feature. Doesn't mean they're not good enough, means that area of the EPL squad is already full. I'm less than confidential that our recruitment team will be on top of that.

 

[Upton_Blade]

No, I'm not. I'm saying there will be good young players at EPL teams who will be available because they aren't going to feature. Doesn't mean they're not good enough, means that area of the EPL squad is already full. I'm less than confidential that our recruitment team will be on top of that.

How many "good young players" at EPL teams have we had over the years that were any good whatsoever?

I mean the last young potential superstar (Ben Woodford) was a roaring success wasn't he??

 

[robbiez666]

How many "good young players" at EPL teams have we had over the years that were any good whatsoever?

I mean the last young potential superstar (Ben Woodford) was a roaring success wasn't he??

Hardly any, but there are good young top-flight players coming on loan to the championship every year. The fact our recruitment in this area is usually poor, needs to change

Just picking a year though, at random, 2018

Mount, Harry Wilson, Jack Harrison, Hendo, Tuenzebe, Harvey Barnes, Abraham, Adarabiyo....

There are many more who play regular in first teams and do well. We tend to panic loan towards the end of windows when we've missed out on signings. More of an afterthought than plan.

 

[Bell4]

There is probably an undefined element of stick or twist in all this.

Hecky has been told that he is the one in charge of football and Bettis the business side.

Let's take the example of Max Lowe.

Hecky/Bettis will have a budget to work to. However they probably have an agreement that player sales can add to that budget.

Does he go for Player A, on a free who is a 7/10 performer or does he wait to get the money for Lowe and pay a fee for Player B who is an 8/10 performer?

There is a possibility that Player A gets snapped up while you wait. But by definition, there will be more Player A's on the market than Player B's.

Then there is the variable factor of time. Some players might not even be available yet. Suppose Bournemouth do their business in the next fortnight.

Before any additions further forward they have Lowe, Brooks, Dembele, Anthony, Stanislaus, Marcondes and Christie who could all in some way fulfill part of the gap Gibbs-White leaves.

Add a few more additions and does Dembele become available? Do they want Brooks to have a stint away and build himself up with consistent game time in an environment that suits him? All of a sudden Tom Lawrence on a free from Derby doesn't look so attractive anymore.

All hypathetical. At some point you have to make a move. Just a case of how long you hold your nerve and how many Player A's you are prepared to see join other clubs before you act.

Very very well reasoned my man

 

[EddieColquhoun]

It was revealed, lest we forget, by the committee members themselves in a YouTube fans forum that Wilder had to persuade some members to change their votes in favour of signing Lowe and Bogle who they were initially vetoing.

Wasn't that vote by the Board (who knew that CW wanted to spend £23m on a young striker)?

 

[EddieColquhoun]

By the way even though the pigs are in a state and players wondering if they are going to get paid this month they seem a lot better at getting their targets in than we do. Now that is embarrassing .

A club that spends 209% of turnover on wages will be able to sign some older ex-Millers on long contracts.

 

[Tom Bott]

Does everyone think the staff involved in recruitment are all on holiday with no phones and zero plan?

Come on, seriously.

We need daily updates from the club as to whether the fax machine is working or we are replacing it

 

[petcharlie]

It really isn't embarrassing. Think of it like this: you live next door to someone. You have a modest car, live within your means, and pay your bills. You don't go on three foreign holidays a year, your motor isn't brand new and specced to the hilt, you don't walk around in Balenciaga trainers at £900 a pair.

Your next door neighbour however is different. Got a massive Audi on HP, huge fuck-off telly, all the latest designer gear, hot tub in the back garden, you name it. What's embarrassing is when the bailiffs come around to take it all away because they've defaulted on their loans, their credit cards and the HP on their car.

I like it hope you are right mate

 

[petcharlie]

MGW.

I did say signed not loaned

 

[petcharlie]

Wilder was on record multiple times stating he didn't want massive wage disparity in the squad and wouldn't have players earning huge amounts more than all the others so IMHO his complaints about the wage bill were a smokescreen to hide from his stubbornness to change anything after the start we had that 2nd year.

Hell he even said himself it was the best window ever once he'd managed to moan enough that the board forked out £23m for a kid who wasn't ready.

Can't say who's fault it was I never said it was not Wilders fault or anyone elses what I did say it was the clubs fault for not paying the going rate. I do not have a clue what individual put the chains on wages or weather it was a joint decision only thing I do know is we lost out on our number one targets by not paying the going rates.

 

[petcharlie]

Where do you think the money has gone?
look in the accounts and you will see ( yawn )
you must also realise that even though you consider we paid low wages we still have obligations to pay them and our costs are currently very close if not greater than our income.

Yes true but 90% of clubs are in the same boat it is often said individuals who buy soccer clubs become millionaires over night thats because they used to be billionaires . Now I do not expect anyone to keep throwing their money in to a bottomless pit unless they are mad or a big soccer fan of their local club and look at it as a hobby . Thats why I feel clubs being owned by a single person will soon be a thing of the past and the ones left will be owned by organizations and consortiums . Our owner is struggling to keep up with the traffic and is unwilling or can not financially keep us going forward . Which ever way it is the club has lost the momentum that was created in the Wilder years and are not in a position to compete in the transfer market. I am not casting blame on anyone just facing facts as I see it and to go forward something has to change or we can carry on as we are now and just tread water going nowhere. To go forward the team needs investment but where from? Can not see the present set up coming up with the goods so if we are content with the way things are we will just witness the club on another slide that lots of us have seen before.

 

[Upton_Blade]

Can't say who's fault it was I never said it was not Wilders fault or anyone elses what I did say it was the clubs fault for not paying the going rate. I do not have a clue what individual put the chains on wages or weather it was a joint decision only thing I do know is we lost out on our number one targets by not paying the going rates.

Yes we did lose out on targets for not paying the going rate but it's always the board that gets hammered for it. IMHO it's quite likely that once players were identified and initial discussions were held re salary expectations that it wasn't just the board that vetoed them and went with the 2nd choice.

The ones that stand out that we were pretty much a given for being in for are Cash, Watkins, Maupey and Robinson.

We got McBurnie instead of Maupey. At the time Maupey was not worth double the salary and a higher transfer fee based on their previous season's performances.

We were never going to pay Robinson £50k a week to sit on the bench when Stevens had been in the Top 3 LB/LWB's in the country the previous season and no one knew how much his form would drop off a cliff at that point.

Villa paid £16m for Cash and £70k a week in wages. Does anyone seriously think we should have forked that out for a RWB after the season Baldock had just had?? We also got Bogle and Lowe for a combined £9m and £30k a week in wages instead.

Watkins I would've probably pushed the boat out a bit for but once Villa joined the race it's game over as they're one of the richest clubs in the country.

I still stand by my opinion that CW would not have had 1 player on double or triple what the rest of the squad were earning. It would also have led to an influx of wage demands from the other players and done exactly what CW promised he wouldn't do ie put the club's financial future in danger.

 

[petcharlie]

Yes we did lose out on targets for not paying the going rate but it's always the board that gets hammered for it. IMHO it's quite likely that once players were identified and initial discussions were held re salary expectations that it wasn't just the board that vetoed them and went with the 2nd choice.

The ones that stand out that we were pretty much a given for being in for are Cash, Watkins, Maupey and Robinson.

We got McBurnie instead of Maupey. At the time Maupey was not worth double the salary and a higher transfer fee based on their previous season's performances.

We were never going to pay Robinson £50k a week to sit on the bench when Stevens had been in the Top 3 LB/LWB's in the country the previous season and no one knew how much his form would drop off a cliff at that point.

Villa paid £16m for Cash and £70k a week in wages. Does anyone seriously think we should have forked that out for a RWB after the season Baldock had just had?? We also got Bogle and Lowe for a combined £9m and £30k a week in wages instead.

Watkins I would've probably pushed the boat out a bit for but once Villa joined the race it's game over as they're one of the richest clubs in the country.

I still stand by my opinion that CW would not have had 1 player on double or triple what the rest of the squad were earning. It would also have led to an influx of wage demands from the other players and done exactly what CW promised he wouldn't do ie put the club's financial future in danger.

Yes I understand what you are getting at .The wages of Prem players are obscene bordering on idiotic but unfortunately all established clubs are paying it and if you wish to keep in the prem you have to attract these type of players to stay in the prem. You can not keep buying from league one and two paying championship or league one wages and expect to compete with the prem clubs. Rubbish I know but it's a fact of life mate. Plus you have no chance of attracting established prem players either . It is becoming a closed shop with big clubs dictating the going rate especially when you realise clubs such as Chelsea snap all the quality players up stick them in the B teams and you don't see them anymore unless they loan them out to some lesser club all on a lot more wages than we are prepared to pay. Take the guy from Wolves who was a sensation at the Lane last year he oused quality but he could not get in their team and a club like ours who are not by no means a small club had no chance what so ever of signing him . Unfortunately he is the type of player we need but no way would we pay the going rate when it comes to wages but to Wolves he is just a squad player. The sad thing is if we were in the prem we would not have got him either. If you want to rub shoulder with the clubs in the prem you have to pay the going rate to stay there. but I respect your views just that I think that type of thinking holds the club back and I am not saying I know the answers but I have seen this now for fifty years and we never take that vital step to progress .

 

[bertieblade]

Petcharlie in an ideal world I am sure we all agree. You however fail to answer the same question of where is the money to come from?
The owner could have kept all the income from the premier league but chose to give it to Wilder who for the aforementioned reasons pointed out in numerous posts chose to buy high value potential.
It’s been
It’s gone
It cannot be changed
You repeating the same questions will not solve anything.
In the absence of funds we have to cut our cloth accordingly and develop and promote from within. Selling sometimes to enable us to slowly climb the stairs to the premier league, possibly bounce up and down a few times but it us the only way at the moment to achieve success.
If we get investment or are sold to a third party who want to speculate / invest things may change but for now be thankful for what we have as it could be a damm sight worse

 

[vas borbokis]

In my fifty odd years supporting us we have never been in a position to compete financially with the top division clubs. It doesn't seem very long ago since we were slugging it out with Wolves in the championship on a seemingly level footing, but even then they had tons more cash available than we did.
We are worlds apart now. The only way to join in is to attract an owner with enough money to be able to see funding the club with millions as loose change. We just don't seem to be attractive to these types. Cloth caps, greasy chip butties and gallons of magnet aside, what do we offer to attract the multi millionaire types? Idolising the style gurus that are Burke & DCL maybe? Maybe not..

 

[petcharlie]

Petcharlie in an ideal world I am sure we all agree. You however fail to answer the same question of where is the money to come from?
The owner could have kept all the income from the premier league but chose to give it to Wilder who for the aforementioned reasons pointed out in numerous posts chose to buy high value potential.
It’s been
It’s gone
It cannot be changed
You repeating the same questions will not solve anything.
In the absence of funds we have to cut our cloth accordingly and develop and promote from within. Selling sometimes to enable us to slowly climb the stairs to the premier league, possibly bounce up and down a few times but it us the only way at the moment to achieve success.
If we get investment or are sold to a third party who want to speculate / invest things may change but for now be thankful for what we have as it could be a damm sight worse

Well you have answered the question you have put to me mate ,for what ever reason our owners can not afford to run a club that needs investment like our club needs to succeed or even survive in the prem and as you say we need a owner or owners who can invest. Bouncing up and down is not success mate it's trying to cling on not success . Success for a club our size is surviving and getting established in the prem not being cannon fodder like we became when we were there last which was mainly due to lack of top quality that is a must in that league just to hang in there. We so needed a center back for 2 years before the club acted to get one in our defence was our strength untill our center half suffered a bad injury but nothing got done to sort it untill it was to late . Mind you with the wage structure we had in place perhaps we could not have got one loan or otherwise to come on board who could cut the mustard in the prem .

 

[Frank the tank]

Well you have answered the question you have put to me mate ,for what ever reason our owners can not afford to run a club that needs investment like our club needs to succeed or even survive in the prem and as you say we need a owner or owners who can invest. Bouncing up and down is not success mate it's trying to cling on not success . Success for a club our size is surviving and getting established in the prem not being cannon fodder like we became when we were there last which was mainly due to lack of top quality that is a must in that league just to hang in there. We so needed a center back for 2 years before the club acted to get one in our defence was our strength untill our center half suffered a bad injury but nothing got done to sort it untill it was to late . Mind you with the wage structure we had in place perhaps we could not have got one loan or otherwise to come on board who could cut the mustard in the prem .

All of that may be but we have the owner we have and as much as we might like him.to.have more money he doesn't
He's put the club up for sale though so what more can he do ?

You're basically just preaching to the converted

 

[JJBlade]

In my fifty odd years supporting us we have never been in a position to compete financially with the top division clubs. It doesn't seem very long ago since we were slugging it out with Wolves in the championship on a seemingly level footing, but even then they had tons more cash available than we did.
We are worlds apart now. The only way to join in is to attract an owner with enough money to be able to see funding the club with millions as loose change. We just don't seem to be attractive to these types. Cloth caps, greasy chip butties and gallons of magnet aside, what do we offer to attract the multi millionaire types? Idolising the style gurus that are Burke & DCL maybe? Maybe not..

You said it yourself
Even when on a level footing with clubs in the past, we were never on a level footing

Take a club like Birmingham City as an example,

Same division, no parachute payments, a constant and permanent financial cloud seems to hang over their heads

Yet, we go up against them for the same player, and we'd lose

 

[bertieblade]

We go up against Birmingham and we lose?
err when has that ever happened? Not fictitious stories of who you think we should sign but facts.
assuming Doyle signs he us one of the best we or anyone in the championship could attract.

what’s with the negative waves !

 

[Blade58]

You said it yourself
Even when on a level footing with clubs in the past, we were never on a level footing

Take a club like Birmingham City as an example,

Same division, no parachute payments, a constant and permanent financial cloud seems to hang over their heads

Yet, we go up against them for the same player, and we'd lose

But that answers your own question there. They are are permanently in a financial mess because they beat the likes of us and other clubs in getting their man, when they couldn't afford to do so. Whereas, we try to run the club on a sustainable footing.

For me personally, I would hate our club to be on the brink of going out of business because we continually out maneuvered other likewise clubs into getting a players signature, when we shouldn't and couldn't afford to do it. It's irresponsible to say the least

 

[Old Programme seller]

Our noisy neighbours over stretched themselves financially and thats put then in the doldrums for 20 years same happened to Leeds up until now, so until that magical billionaire owner comes along it’s beg borrow and possibly a good cup run.

 

[JJBlade]

But that answers your own question there. They are are permanently in a financial mess because they beat the likes of us and other clubs in getting their man, when they couldn't afford to do so. Whereas, we try to run the club on a sustainable footing.

For me personally, I would hate our club to be on the brink of going out of business because we continually out maneuvered other likewise clubs into getting a players signature, when we shouldn't and couldn't afford to do it. It's irresponsible to say the least

The point is, they still do it
Even when in a worse financial position

But it doesn't mean signing good players = financial oblivion

I've already said any player that commands a transfer fee and we shouldn't even be looking at them,

But we have to increase wages and pick up some quality frees

 

[BobblesBlade]

Does anyone think we will sign anyone this pre season?

I can’t see anyone unless on loan.

 

[Old Programme seller]

3 to 4 loans at first and 2 more during the season

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Does anyone think we will sign anyone this pre season?

I can’t see anyone unless on loan.

We’ve already signed someone, so your vision is already significantly impaired.
Is there like a WUM standards agency that keeps tabs on you from a quality control perspective?

 

[TimofeeVee]

This has been making random appearances in my head since hearing it on Adam Buxton's podcast.....if the recruitment team could look out for someone who's name fits well to the tune, that'd be much appreciated!!!

Failing that, more signings in general plz.

 

[BobblesBlade]

We’ve already signed someone, so your vision is already significantly impaired.
Is there like a WUM standards agency that keeps tabs on you from a quality control perspective?

Alright farty pants.