Timewasting in the corners

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Scooter_mcgavin

Scooter_mcgavin

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I'd love someone like Blade Analytics to have a gander at the effectiveness of timewasting in the corner when having a throw in or corner kick?

For me it seems to offer no purpose, the situation generally ends up with:

Free kick to the opposition
Throw-in/goal kick to opposition
Opposition winning ball.

Rarely does it end with winning a corner or another throw-in and even if it did, how much more time would it waste?

Surely a more effective way would be retaining possession via passing, i'm sure this would run the clock down more effective that the 5 seconds you waste 'shielding the ball in the corner'.

I just find it annoying (and totally ineffective), particularly when doing it with 10/15 mins left of the game.
 

Scooter_mcgavin said:
I'd love someone like Blade Analytics to have a gander at the effectiveness of timewasting in the corner when having a throw in or corner kick?

For me it seems to offer no purpose, the situation generally ends up with:

Free kick to the opposition
Throw-in/goal kick to opposition
Opposition winning ball.

Rarely does it end with winning a corner or another throw-in and even if it did, how much more time would it waste?

Surely a more effective way would be retaining possession via passing, i'm sure this would run the clock down more effective that the 5 seconds you waste 'shielding the ball in the corner'.

I just find it annoying (and totally ineffective), particularly when doing it with 10/15 mins left of the game.
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We won 1-0... so i guess it’s fairly effective!

That said we started it around 80 mins and carried on until 97th min. Took lots of pressure off the midfield and defence though
 
SwissBlade said:
We won 1-0... so i guess it’s fairly effective!

That said we started it around 80 mins and carried on until 97th min. Took lots of pressure off the midfield and defence though
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Not sure that's a measure of it's effectiveness.

I reckon we could have continued playing as we had the previous 70 mins and potentially ended the game more comfortably. I appreciate it was a first win, but the last 20 mins of the game was almost Norwich like.
 
Scooter_mcgavin said:
Not sure that's a measure of it's effectiveness.

I reckon we could have continued playing as we had the previous 70 mins and potentially ended the game more comfortably. I appreciate it was a first win, but the last 20 mins of the game was almost Norwich like.
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A simple measure of the effectiveness is that they didn’t score. That was the aim.

However, it would probably be better to run a heat map of where the ball/ possession was in that last 17 mins
 
SwissBlade said:
We won 1-0... so i guess it’s fairly effective!

That said we started it around 80 mins and carried on until 97th min. Took lots of pressure off the midfield and defence though
Click to expand...
Well we were winning 1-0 before that! In that period it was 0-0 ;)
I personally don't like it , and felt safer prior to us doing it. Against them it worked, but I would prefer us maintaining our usual style and perhaps just going a bit safer (Jags experience was used of course)
 
Greasy Chap Butty said:
Well we were winning 1-0 before that! In that period it was 0-0 ;)
I personally don't like it , and felt safer prior to us doing it. Against them it worked, but I would prefer us maintaining our usual style and perhaps just going a bit safer (Jags experience was used of course)
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Ha ha Very true!

I said on other threads and to my mates that I thought that we were a little more nervy and if it were later in the season we’d probably have gone for a second.

However, remember villa away last season... we got undone late in the game and perhaps sometimes we have to close out a game in a dull way.

That first 3 points was huge, I think that boost goes a long way
 
Scooter_mcgavin said:
I'd love someone like Blade Analytics to have a gander at the effectiveness of timewasting in the corner when having a throw in or corner kick?

For me it seems to offer no purpose, the situation generally ends up with:

Free kick to the opposition
Throw-in/goal kick to opposition
Opposition winning ball.

Rarely does it end with winning a corner or another throw-in and even if it did, how much more time would it waste?

Surely a more effective way would be retaining possession via passing, i'm sure this would run the clock down more effective that the 5 seconds you waste 'shielding the ball in the corner'.

I just find it annoying (and totally ineffective), particularly when doing it with 10/15 mins left of the game.
Click to expand...
We all slated Norwich
Scooter_mcgavin said:
I'd love someone like Blade Analytics to have a gander at the effectiveness of timewasting in the corner when having a throw in or corner kick?

For me it seems to offer no purpose, the situation generally ends up with:

Free kick to the opposition
Throw-in/goal kick to opposition
Opposition winning ball.

Rarely does it end with winning a corner or another throw-in and even if it did, how much more time would it waste?

Surely a more effective way would be retaining possession via passing, i'm sure this would run the clock down more effective that the 5 seconds you waste 'shielding the ball in the corner'.

I just find it annoying (and totally ineffective), particularly when doing it with 10/15 mins left of the game.
Click to expand...
We all slated Norwich for using the same tactics,
Scooter_mcgavin said:
I'd love someone like Blade Analytics to have a gander at the effectiveness of timewasting in the corner when having a throw in or corner kick?

For me it seems to offer no purpose, the situation generally ends up with:

Free kick to the opposition
Throw-in/goal kick to opposition
Opposition winning ball.

Rarely does it end with winning a corner or another throw-in and even if it did, how much more time would it waste?

Surely a more effective way would be retaining possession via passing, i'm sure this would run the clock down more effective that the 5 seconds you waste 'shielding the ball in the corner'.

I just find it annoying (and totally ineffective), particularly when doing it with 10/15 mins left of the game.
Click to expand...
We all slated Norwich for same time wasting tactics
 
Realistically, how long can you keep your foot on the ball in the corner for with a couple of defenders trying to steal it? 10-15 seconds? How long does it take to take a throw in or corner? Around 20 seconds.

The best way to kill time is to get a set piece. Take as long as you can over taking it but as soon as it's back in play kick it straight off a defender's legs. Do this twice and a minute has gone. it sometimes feels like officials are looking to give a foul against a forward shielding the ball so don't give them the chance. Waste time by keeping the ball out of play.

Set pieces, especially corners, have the added bonus of dragging more opposition players back into defense, or at least further away from the halfway line.
 
I think the idea is that kills the momentum of the opposing team as far away from your goal as possible.

While keeping possession is great in theory, would any of us have been comfortable watching us trying to do that for 15 mins while being harried and pressed in our own half by the likes of Zaha, Van Aanholt and Benteke? We’re not Man City, the likelihood is we would have been caught out on more than one occasion.
 
JJFearnley said:
Realistically, how long can you keep your foot on the ball in the corner for with a couple of defenders trying to steal it? 10-15 seconds? How long does it take to take a throw in or corner? Around 20 seconds.

The best way to kill time is to get a set piece. Take as long as you can over taking it but as soon as it's back in play kick it straight off a defender's legs. Do this twice and a minute has gone. it sometimes feels like officials are looking to give a foul against a forward shielding the ball so don't give them the chance. Waste time by keeping the ball out of play.

Set pieces, especially corners, have the added bonus of dragging more opposition players back into defense, or at least further away from the halfway line.
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That happened at least once in the JSS corner, McBurnie knocked the ball against the defender’s leg. Can’t remember the corner itself mind 🙂
 

BettingBlade said:
I think the idea is that kills the momentum of the opposing team as far away from your goal as possible.

While keeping possession is great in theory, would any of us have been comfortable watching us trying to do that for 15 mins while being harried and pressed in our own half by the likes of Zaha, Van Aanholt and Benteke? We’re not Man City, the likelihood is we would have been caught out on more than one occasion.
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On Sunday's performance, Van Aanholt would struggle to press a fucking button.
 
Scooter_mcgavin said:
the last 20 mins of the game was almost Norwich like.
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Yep. Football stopped about 20 minutes to go. Maybe even before that. But that does seem to be what's required in this League. And, like it or not, we've adapted.
Apart from the Norwich game - and maybe Swindon a few seasons ago trying to get the Higgopotamus sent off - there's been little or none of this crap the last couple of seasons. I'm already pining for the great days of League One.
 
Trigger Blade said:
That happened at least once in the JSS corner, McBurnie knocked the ball against the defender’s leg. Can’t remember the corner itself mind 🙂
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When we took the corner we tried to keep our foot on it. What we should have tried to do was win another corner straight away.
 
I can understand it but I think we started way to early in the Palace game. What I found annoying was when we got a corner and we literally had no one in the box, just the taker and short option with everyone back.
 
Lose possession down near the oppositions corner flag and you give yourself the best possible chance to regroup. It's merely 'percentage' football - probably the least threatening area of the entire pitch and you've forced them to bring 3 or 4 players back. Even if they do get it clear then they'll have to go some to turn it into an effective break. Shit to watch, mind.
 
BettingBlade said:
I think the idea is that kills the momentum of the opposing team as far away from your goal as possible.

While keeping possession is great in theory, would any of us have been comfortable watching us trying to do that for 15 mins while being harried and pressed in our own half by the likes of Zaha, Van Aanholt and Benteke? We’re not Man City, the likelihood is we would have been caught out on more than one occasion.
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I think the action has a psychological effect on both teams. Hopefully it will frustrate the opposition and give your teammates a small amount of time to re-position/refocus. I would be interested to see some analysed stats on the closing minutes on those who use it.

Some might call it professionalism but I personally feel it is taking grinding out a result to the extreme, and not easy on the eye.
 
SwissBlade said:
We won 1-0... so i guess it’s fairly effective!

That said we started it around 80 mins and carried on until 97th min. Took lots of pressure off the midfield and defence though
Click to expand...
SwissBlade said:
A simple measure of the effectiveness is that they didn’t score. That was the aim.

However, it would probably be better to run a heat map of where the ball/ possession was in that last 17 mins
Click to expand...

Just because we won, doesn't mean that the tactic is or isn't effective: cause doesn't necessarily equal effect.

Perhaps that tactic prevented Palace from scoring and thus, Wilder was completely justified. Perhaps that tactic squandered possession, and increased the risk of Palace scoring, and we/he got lucky.

We'll never know. Though we can all have an opinion.

I'm personally of the "the opposition can't score without the ball" school of thought. I also happen to think that once a player goes into the corner to waste time, losing the ball in inevitable.
For that reason I feel Wilder (and therefore the team) would ultimately be better served by keeping the ball in more space, in that situation.

However, Wilder has spent the last 4 seasons consistently making the right calls, as evidenced by his results. He's earned the right to make that decision, whether or not me or Scooter_mcgavin agree.
 
Cardiff City at home the other season.
That didn't end well.
 
Liaminho9 said:
Even the best team in England do it. (Albeit with a little more style.)

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I don't feel that there's much similarity there.

Man City are trying to keep the ball indefinitely, or even still looking for an opening to cross, between three players.

We were leaving McBurnie isolated to effectively shield the ball for as long as possible before he was inevitably tackled.
 
I'll be honest I hate it,choose who does it.I think the ref said 7mins was for uniteds timewasting I'm sure he would have added a couple of minutes, he kept pointing and stopping his watch.
 
Jason jacobs said:
I'll be honest I hate it,choose who does it.I think the ref said 7mins was for uniteds timewasting I'm sure he would have added a couple of minutes, he kept pointing and stopping his watch.
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30 seconds for each substitution = 2.5 mins
A minute or two for Townsend injury
Same again for the scuffle in the corner
Minute or so added for 'time wasting'

Can soon add up...
 
Essentially we're trying to force a free kick, throw in or corner where more time can be wasted, you can't shield the ball forever but when you've got someone as strong as McBurnie standing over the ball, the likelihood is he's not going to give the ball away easily. If you do give the ball away at least you're at the other end of the pitch and you've got 10 men behind it.

Whatever anyone thinks, Wilder clearly thinks we need to deploy this as a tactic to protect a lead late on in a game. Maybe we gave Palace too much respect in that sense, but as others have said, Wilder knows best and we won, so whether you like to see it or not, it's part of our game now.
 
Kanye said:
Just because we won, doesn't mean that the tactic is or isn't effective: cause doesn't necessarily equal effect.

Perhaps that tactic prevented Palace from scoring and thus, Wilder was completely justified. Perhaps that tactic squandered possession, and increased the risk of Palace scoring, and we/he got lucky.

We'll never know. Though we can all have an opinion.

I'm personally of the "the opposition can't score without the ball" school of thought. I also happen to think that once a player goes into the corner to waste time, losing the ball in inevitable.
For that reason I feel Wilder (and therefore the team) would ultimately be better served by keeping the ball in more space, in that situation.

However, Wilder has spent the last 4 seasons consistently making the right calls, as evidenced by his results. He's earned the right to make that decision, whether or not me or Scooter_mcgavin agree.
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My responses are slightly tongue in cheek, but there is a point that whether it’s luck or good tactics, the intended result was achieved: don’t concede.

The theory is that you’ll lose the ball, so it’s better to do it in the far corner as it’s the furthest point the ball can be on the pitch. It means that we can also not waste players, just keeping 2/3 players there, the rest maintaining shape.

As I said, I’d prefer if we attacked for a 2nd but that would risk players being out of position when possession inevitably is conceded.
 

Its a horrible tactic that belongs in the 70's/80s and lower down the divisions. We are much better than this.

Buys about 6 seconds before they win back possesion and we then we end up having to chase the ball back for another few minutes.

Retaining possession high up the pitch is surely a lot more effective.
 
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