Time to sell up Kev

[Tunstall Fred]

I am not really asking for that am I just a board who will back the manager a bit you know like the majority of the teams in the championship.

It’s pretty clear that McCabe and princey can’t and won’t so yes I would like them to sell to someone who has the ambition that would match us the fans and the club.

Or are you happy us turning into Ipswich

Like I said,you come across as a simpleton

 

[Davie Blade]

Could this be a case of why buy a player for cash when you can lease him. I imagine there are tax benefits

Lease a football player? Is that the one where you hand it back after 3 years providing it's run less than 300 miles in a season or it's an extra 10 p a mile.

As for tax benefits would that be?
The accounts say we've £47.5 m of unrelieved tax losses to offset against future taxable profits.

 

[The Fox]

The OP uses the phrase investment . Lots of people use this phrase when it's far from it in reality it's a gamble , the odds are high . Yes there's a big payout if your gamble comes off consummate with the odds . However there's a good chance it doesn't . It's not that if it fails you walk back into the bookies n have another punt , if it doesn't come off your skint and it might be a few years before you can afford another flutter .
It's a shame the way football is , but that's how it is . Like any gamble you should only gamble what you can afford . Unfortunately we don't have petrodollars to burn . I'd rather stay on track , stable , continuously improve , compete and never go to third tier again

 

[NotFallowfieldBlade]

The OP uses the phrase investment . Lots of people use this phrase when it's far from it in reality it's a gamble , the odds are high . Yes there's a big payout if your gamble comes off consummate with the odds . However there's a good chance it doesn't . It's not that if it fails you walk back into the bookies n have another punt , if it doesn't come off your skint and it might be a few years before you can afford another flutter .
It's a shame the way football is , but that's how it is . Like any gamble you should only gamble what you can afford . Unfortunately we don't have petrodollars to burn . I'd rather stay on track , stable , continuously improve , compete and never go to third tier again

No you dont there are plenty of teams in the champioship who are investing sensibly ? And im not talking wolves wendy and boro

 

[ShorehamRevolution]

I’m not debating whether or not McCabe can afford it with the current finances , just saying if he doesn’t have a pot to pee in maybe he should find someone who can . Barnsley have just been took over by a billionaire Christ sake

Well in that case I’m presuming you’ve quite obviously not seen our wage bill from league 1?

 

[Finn Keane o' Balmaqueen]

there are plenty of teams in the champioship who are investing sensibly

Please...

Who?
Examples?

Many Thanks.

Dejphon.

 

[The Fox]

No you dont there are plenty of teams in the champioship who are investing sensibly ? And im not talking wolves wendy and boro

Sorry I don't what ?

Who are these clubs with exception of Wendy wolves boro . ?
Are these clubs who've taken a gamble which at this stage looks like it could come off ?
I don't think we should lack ambition but neither gamble what we can't afford

 

[Silent Blade]

No you dont there are plenty of teams in the champioship who are investing sensibly ?

If every club in this division are "investing sensibly" then three teams will not be able to avoid relegation and 21 teams fail to get promotion.

You gotta degree in finance? BOLLOX

 

[Pedro's Winger]

Sorry I don't what ?

Who are these clubs with exception of Wendy wolves boro . ?
Are these clubs who've taken a gamble which at this stage looks like it could come off ?
I don't think we should lack ambition but neither gamble what we can't afford

Given we have assets we could sell it's hardly a huge gamble to invest sensibly.
Look at the question the other way round - which clubs with our potential wouldn't invest sensibly in the same position?

 

[Tunstall Fred]

Given we have assets we could sell it's hardly a huge gamble to invest sensibly.
Look at the question the other way round - which clubs with our potential wouldn't invest sensibly in the same position?

Given we have a manager who is not up to the job according to you,it would be foolish to give this incompetent manager any money would it not?

 

[I should coco]

Barnsley have just been took over by a billionaire Christ sake

There are billionaires and then there are 'billionaires'..

Barnsley's bloke has roped in other investors plus Bobby Beane which suggests to me that he is not about to pump £500m into the club tomorrow,

FWIW don't forget that the Venky family were suggested to be in control of a billion dollar company......

 

[Maidenhead]

Given we have assets we could sell it's hardly a huge gamble to invest sensibly.
Look at the question the other way round - which clubs with our potential wouldn't invest sensibly in the same position?

Where have you been for the last fifty years?

We've nearly always invested sensibly and then sold off our assets when the cash runs low.

My era starts with Jones and Birchenall.

I'm sure you don't need me to run through the full list subsequent to that, yet here you are advocating that we continue the same policies as the last 50yrs which have got us where exactly?

I have heard insanity described as doing the same thing time after time in the hope that you might get a different outcome.

 

[Houston_Blade]

If every club in this division are "investing sensibly" then three teams will not be able to avoid relegation and 21 teams fail to get promotion.

You gotta degree in finance? BOLLOX

Read his post again and it sounds like he's got a degree in IT, it would make more sense if so.

 

[Pedro's Winger]

Where have you been for the last fifty years?

We've nearly always invested sensibly and then sold off our assets when the cash runs low.

My era starts with Jones and Birchenall.

I'm sure you don't need me to run through the full list subsequent to that, yet here you are advocating that we continue the same policies as the last 50yrs which have got us where exactly?

I have heard insanity described as doing the same thing time after time in the hope that you might get a different outcome.

Pretty obviously we haven't invested sensibly over much of the last 50 years, hence the relatively poor performance of the club for much of that time.
I'm not sure what your argument is - don't invest sensibly and hope for the best?

 

[The Fox]

Given we have assets we could sell it's hardly a huge gamble to invest sensibly.
Look at the question the other way round - which clubs with our potential wouldn't invest sensibly in the same position?

I take you point but the fact remains to only sensible when it comes off which is a gamble . When it comes off it's a well judged investment, when it doesn't it's an expensive mistake . Risk and reward like anything , a few small risks are with taking but the proof will be in the eating

 

[Maidenhead]

Pretty obviously we haven't invested sensibly over much of the last 50 years, hence the relatively poor performance of the club for much of that time.
I'm not sure what your argument is - don't invest sensibly and hope for the best?

So you are saying that if all 72 FL clubs had "invested sensibly" they would all be in the Premier League? Or are we a special case?

I am saying that this "sensible investment" policy and resort to selling assets if it doesn't work out as suggested by you, is exactly the same policy the club has been employing over the last 50yrs but not surprisingly when it doesn't work out the fans are up in arms.

What I suggest is that we build our temple by laying firm foundations and seeking year on year improvement so that when we do get to put the roof on there is much less chance of it blowing off after one season.

I think we have a firm foundation and we need to progress by adding a bit more quality here and there when we can do it within our means.

The policy you advocate has a 50 year history of cyclical success and failure, I want to build for a 50 year history of success and gambling on it is not the right way.

 

[Maidenhead]

Think Everton, not Coventry

 

[Pinchy]

I'm not a massive fan of McCabe and some of the carry ons we have had in his time (BT sale, Robson, Walker sale etc) but I acknowledge the contributions he has made to the club, keeping us afloat etc.

I do wonder though, what his ultimate ambition is. I get the whole argument it's "his money so he can do what he wants with it " - but football is a business where you have to speculate to acumulate. If he isnt going to do this, or cant afford to do so, then it makes me wonder what his aim actually is. I do think the stranglehold he has on the club has put off potential investment (and yes, likely equally put off chancers like the Blackburn owners).

In terms of the support this window - we dont know exactly the extent of the budget is but I wasnt sure CW sounded amazingly positive when asked by Giddings (and people close to the club have said for a while, it's small). The board as a whole must realise that the higher up you want to go, the more money you have to spend.

Good old ‘speculate to accumulate’. A phrase only ever used by people spending other people’s money.

 

[Pinchy]

No you dont there are plenty of teams in the champioship who are investing sensibly ? And im not talking wolves wendy and boro

That degree wasn’t in English, was it?

Have you found that buyer, yet?

 

[Pedro's Winger]

So you are saying that if all 72 FL clubs had "invested sensibly" they would all be in the Premier League? Or are we a special case?

I am saying that this "sensible investment" policy and resort to selling assets if it doesn't work out as suggested by you, is exactly the same policy the club has been employing over the last 50yrs but not surprisingly when it doesn't work out the fans are up in arms.

What I suggest is that we build our temple by laying firm foundations and seeking year on year improvement so that when we do get to put the roof on there is much less chance of it blowing off after one season.

I think we have a firm foundation and we need to progress by adding a bit more quality here and there when we can do it within our means.

The policy you advocate has a 50 year history of cyclical success and failure, I want to build for a 50 year history of success and gambling on it is not the right way.

No I'm making the self-evident point that we've generally not invested sensibly, ie not acquired the right players, and in addition have often sold players at the wrong time and on occasion undersold them.
I added the point about selling assets to calm the nervous nellies who get terribly worried about multi-millionaires losing relatively small amounts of money.
In reality, with sensible investment, there wouldn't be any need to sell any players because our owners can afford it and it will help support future income through attendances, season tickets, commercial income etc.
Investing sensibly is how you improve year on year and without investment it's very unlikely there will be promotion.

 

[Maidenhead]

1No I'm making the self-evident point that we've generally not invested sensibly, ie not acquired the right players, and in addition (2) have often sold players at the wrong time and on occasion undersold them.
(3) I added the point about selling assets to calm the nervous nellies who get terribly worried (4)about multi-millionaires losing relatively small amounts of money.
In reality, with sensible investment, there wouldn't be any need to sell any players because our owners can afford it (5) and it will help support future income through attendances, season tickets, commercial income etc.
(6) Investing sensibly is how you improve year on year and without investment it's very unlikely there will be promotion.

1) like the other 72 teams in the FL?

2) How are you qualified to say this? Are we to take it that you have access to the clubs cash flow forecasts and are a market expert in fire sales?

3) So you didn't actually mean what you said? You don't actually have a fall back plan other than to make further "sensible investment" maybe, if it doesn't work first time. (see my previous post about insanity and doing the same things but expecting a different outcome)

4) Based on what? See my previous posts about the difference between wealth and cash in hand? Once again I take it that you must have access to the directors bank account statements as well as the clubs cash flows

5) All completely insignificant in the overall picture. Future income is totally dependent on reaching the PL and if we do the sources you mention will be completely insignificant in terms of the bigger picture.

6) Investing within your means and maximising your returns from those investments is how you improve year on year, Once you start spending more than you can afford it becomes a gamble, and gambling is the not the best way to build a successful business.

I have now addressed every single point in your post rationally and objectively in the hope that you can appreciate that the real world of business development is much more complicated than it may first appear. I am open to persuasion on many topics but giving up sound financial management in the hope of greater glory is not one of them. Some gamblers may get lucky once in a while but for every one that does there are hundreds that don't.

 

[Pedro's Winger]

1) like the other 72 teams in the FL?

2) How are you qualified to say this? Are we to take it that you have access to the clubs cash flow forecasts and are a market expert in fire sales?

3) So you didn't actually mean what you said? You don't actually have a fall back plan other than to make further "sensible investment" maybe, if it doesn't work first time. (see my previous post about insanity and doing the same things but expecting a different outcome)

4) Based on what? See my previous posts about the difference between wealth and cash in hand? Once again I take it that you must have access to the directors bank account statements as well as the clubs cash flows

5) All completely insignificant in the overall picture. Future income is totally dependent on reaching the PL and if we do the sources you mention will be completely insignificant in terms of the bigger picture.

6) Investing within your means and maximising your returns from those investments is how you improve year on year, Once you start spending more than you can afford it becomes a gamble, and gambling is the not the best way to build a successful business.

I have now addressed every single point in your post rationally and objectively in the hope that you can appreciate that the real world of business development is much more complicated than it may first appear. I am open to persuasion on many topics but giving up sound financial management in the hope of greater glory is not one of them. Some gamblers may get lucky once in a while but for every one that does there are hundreds that don't.

Sensible investment is investing within our means, whereas you seem to see it as some kind of mortal threat.
Owners of football clubs have to invest their own money in general, that's footballing life for the vast majority of clubs.
You're viewing football like an ordinary business, which it isn't.
To ease your paranoia I pointed out if the worst came to the worst we could sell players but we're already a relatively low wage club with relatively high attendances and not spending wildly beyond our means (or owners' means).
We're not talking about going out to spend £10m on someone like Rhodes, just sensible investment on a bit more quality and depth than we already have.

 

[Tunstall Fred]

Sensible investment is investing within our means, whereas you seem to see it as some kind of mortal threat.
Owners of football clubs have to invest their own money in general, that's footballing life for the vast majority of clubs.
You're viewing football like an ordinary business, which it isn't.
To ease your paranoia I pointed out if the worst came to the worst we could sell players but we're already a relatively low wage club with relatively high attendances and not spending wildly beyond our means (or owners' means).
We're not talking about going out to spend £10m on someone like Rhodes, just sensible investment on a bit more quality and depth than we already have.

Instead of waffling,you could try and argue against the very valid points made by Maidenhead

 

[Pedro's Winger]

Instead of waffling,you could try and argue against the very valid points made by Maidenhead

He or she hasn't got any valid comments I'm afraid.
Living within our means in a strict business sense would mean we wouldn't have acquired any players and would have sold assets to ensure we don't make any losses.
The corner shop logic doesn't translate to the world of football. Losses are part and parcel of owning a club - the scale of those losses and how they're managed is the issue.
We haven't made huge losses and are in a position to invest sensibly with the outside possibility of promotion, which would change the financial picture for years.
In the overall scheme of things it's pretty logical.

 

[Pinchy]

Given that our ‘means’ amount to making a loss year on year and will continue to do so, we actually “invest” beyond our means.

Meanwhile the queue of the super-rich wanting to buy the club has stretched beyond the car park and snakes halfway down Shoreham Street. Private jets are landing every five minutes and the John Street harbour is moored full of multi-decked yachts.

 

[Sean Thornton]

He or she hasn't got any valid comments I'm afraid.
Living within our means in a strict business sense would mean we wouldn't have acquired any players and would have sold assets to ensure we don't make any losses.
The corner shop logic doesn't translate to the world of football. Losses are part and parcel of owning a club - the scale of those losses and how they're managed is the issue.
We haven't made huge losses and are in a position to invest sensibly with the outside possibility of promotion, which would change the financial picture for years.
In the overall scheme of things it's pretty logical.

Yes. I remember that logic being applied in the Robson era......

 

[Tunstall Fred]

He or she hasn't got any valid comments I'm afraid.
Living within our means in a strict business sense would mean we wouldn't have acquired any players and would have sold assets to ensure we don't make any losses.
The corner shop logic doesn't translate to the world of football. Losses are part and parcel of owning a club - the scale of those losses and how they're managed is the issue.
We haven't made huge losses and are in a position to invest sensibly with the outside possibility of promotion, which would change the financial picture for years.
In the overall scheme of things it's pretty logical.

Just more waffle,try to address the points made,not some fantasy notion that exists in your dense head

 

[Pedro's Winger]

Remind us what the sensible investment was in the Robson era...

Yes. I remember that logic being applied in the Robson era......

 

[Sean Thornton]

Remind us what the sensible investment was in the Robson era...

I'm sure they didn't spend the money at the time thinking it wasn't the way to go about things.

 

[Pedro's Winger]

Given that our ‘means’ amount to making a loss year on year and will continue to do so, we actually “invest” beyond our means.

Meanwhile the queue of the super-rich wanting to buy the club has stretched beyond the car park and snakes halfway down Shoreham Street. Private jets are landing every five minutes and the John Street harbour is moored full of multi-decked yachts.

But pretty much every club is in that position up and down the land. Virtually no club invests within its means in the sense that would apply to most other businesses.
Our losses are relatively small and manageable (and in the last year covered by sell-on income) which lends itself to making sensible investment now.