The Vicious Circle of the Third Division

[mattbianco1]

Keep your best players who are under contract - when you have publicly stayed you do not need to sell them - and win promotion.

See: Leeds and Beckford, Huddersfield andRhodes.

What get promoted then sell them to a team in the same division?

 

[blader]

Do you get a bit of wee in your pants everytime Bristol City get a mention ?
Care to have a wager who finishes higher ?

Ye alright mate, £10 to a charity of the others choice? They just bid for Agard as well! Got a semi on when I saw that....

 

[Revolution]

What get out of the division then sell them to a team in the same division?

Better than selling them and not getting out of the division, from where I'm sitting.

 

[moDtheGod]

Small minded team. Small minded board. Always have been, always will be.

Always have been, always will be. And yet the players change regularly, the board changes fairly often... the only consistent element is the fans and their attitude.

Just a thought.

 

[SwindonBladeJnr]

Baldock - Bristol - gone nowhere
Assombalonga - Peterborough - gone nowhere
Mooney - orient - gone nowhere

The teams at the top have kept their best players this far. Maybe it's not the division, but our club?

Have each of these players been subject to several bids from a premier league club over a period of several weeks, before deciding to make it known at their current club that they wish to leave?

If they have, and their current clubs have stood firm, fine - your comparison is valid.

If that isn't the case, your comparison is meaningless and doesn't help back up your point.

 

[Revolution]

Always have been, always will be. And yet the players change regularly, the board changes fairly often... the only consistent element is the fans and their attitude.

Just a thought.

Yes, it's all our fault.

Jesus wept.

 

[blader]

Have each of these players been subject to several bids from a premier league club over a period of several weeks, before deciding to make it known at their current club that they wish to leave?

If they have, and their current clubs have stood firm, fine - your comparison is valid.

If that isn't the case, your comparison is meaningless and doesn't help back up your point.

Look at my second post. Their chairman simply said we won't entertain any offers. That was the end of that transfer saga!

 

[mattbianco1]

Better than selling them and not getting out of the division, from where I'm sitting.

Do you seriously think we were in a position to not sell Quinn, Lowton & Williamson ? Do you really think that keeping McDonald would've got us out of this division?

The answer to both is no.

It was unsustainable to hold onto the squad that Danny Wilson inherited as their wages were too high. Had we beaten Huddersfield I dare say that they could still be here.

McDonald? Good player yes but was he single handedly gonna win us promotion? No. We would've maybe picked up a few more points under David Weir which in-turn would've probably kept him his job. McDonald would've then been sold in January (probably) because we would've still been in the bottom half and we would've finished a damn site lower than we did under Clough.

 

[mattbianco1]

Look at my second post. Their chairman simply said we won't entertain any offers. That was the end of that transfer saga!

Nigel Clough said we're not under pressure to sell Maguire yet we've sold him. Because Hull were persistent and kept increasing their bid. If Hull come knocking for Assombalonga I'll be quick to point you in the direction of this thread when he's holding a orange/black shirt in his hands

Edit: from the noises in and around the club we kept rejecting bids from Wolves and Hull and it was infact the player that engineered the move. What more can we do?

 

[SwindonBladeJnr]

Look at my second post. Their chairman simply said we won't entertain any offers. That was the end of that transfer saga!

Doesn't mean much to me to be honest, that's still a very different matter to a club actually making a concrete bid which turns the player in questions head.

Do we honestly think that if a premier league club came in with a 5m offer tomorrow, assombalonga wouldn't go? Of course he would, because he would make it very clear that we wants to go and in modern football that is the deal maker - whether the player wants the move.

 

[Revolution]

Do you seriously think we were in a position to not sell Quinn, Lowton & Williamson ? Do you really think that keeping McDonald would've got us out of this division?

The answer to both is no.

It was unsustainable to hold onto the squad that Danny Wilson inherited as their wages were too high. Had we beaten Huddersfield I dare say that they could still be here.

McDonald? Good player yes but was he single handedly gonna win us promotion? No. We would've maybe picked up a few more points under David Weir which in-turn would've probably kept him his job. McDonald would've then been sold in January (probably) because we would've still been in the bottom half and we would've finished a damn site lower than we did under Clough.

The people who own the club could have funded the club so that we did not gave to sell these players. They chose not to.

That is their choice. And their perogative.

And it has resulted in the club getting lower and lower down the league table, reducing the value of their investment.

Plus that is history now. The club have repeatedly said we do not need to sell Maguire. And we have. They have wilfully done this again.

 

[mattbianco1]

The people who own the club could have funded the club so that we did not gave to sell these players. They chose not to.

That is their choice. And their perogative.

And it has resulted in the club getting lower and lower down the league table, reducing the value of their investment.

Plus that is history now. The club have repeatedly said we do not need to sell Maguire. And we have. They have wilfully done this again.

Wilfully and reluctantly don't mean the same in the dictionary that I have

 

[blader]

Doesn't mean much to me to be honest, that's still a very different matter to a club actually making a concrete bid which turns the player in questions head.

Do we honestly think that if a premier league club came in with a 5m offer tomorrow, assombalonga wouldn't go? Of course he would, because he would make it very clear that we wants to go and in modern football that is the deal maker - whether the player wants the move.

You're maybe focusing on one example too much when put in the context of the thread. It was McDonald before him, Quinn before him, brown, tonge etc etc etc it's every year which is why we are in this league to begin with. The only way you get out of this league is by keeping your best players and adding to them. That's precisely what Rotherham did, and they got up at the firstattempt. We're too naive in the transfer market.

 

[felix]

We have to cut our cloth but I'd like to think that with the money for Maguire plus the Cup run we can actually spend some money on good players now.

Re Peterborough, by the way, didn't we pinch Scougall from under their noses? They also refused to buy Hogan from Rochdale and the non-league player who went to Huddersfield because they are watching the pennies. Sensible, really.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

I'm not entirely sure what your point is really. Fry came out and said 'we aren't interested in selling, even if it's a £5m offer' so if a club valued him at, say £4m, what is the point in making that offer. That is genuinely what you call a 'firm stance'. Therefore, Peterborough have retained their best player for another season. I'd rather have a 'fruit loop' in charge if he point blank refused to sell our best players than constantly flogging them at the first/second offer. This isn't a one-off, as mentioned above.

The point is that talk is cheap. Now answer the original question, how many ACTUAL bids have Fry and the rest on your list turned down? We know we turned down a few. I'm saying it's all bollocks until it's tested.

 

[SwindonBladeJnr]

You're maybe focusing on one example too much when put in the context of the thread. It was McDonald before him, Quinn before him, brown, tonge etc etc etc it's every year which is why we are in this league to begin with. The only way you get out of this league is by keeping your best players and adding to them. That's precisely what Rotherham did, and they got up at the firstattempt. We're too naive in the transfer market.

Did Rotherham have to turn down bids from clubs higher in the football pyramid to keep their best players, or we're their best players still there because no one attempted to sign them?

See now I might agree with your general point when looking at past sales, such as Quinn, but what I am saying is comparing those sales to the Maguire one is ridiculous and cannot therefore be used as part of the overall argument.

 

[mattbianco1]

The point is that talk is cheap. Now answer the original question, how many ACTUAL bids have Fry and the rest on your list turned down? We know we turned down a few. I'm saying it's all bollocks until it's tested.

blader and whilst you're answering this... How many Rotherham players were subject to bids last season?

Rumours circulating that Pringle and Frecklington are on their way out

 

[Sheff de party]

End of third season in League one we have to sell our best player Maguire, sets back our chances of promotion?

I'm a huge fan of Harry. I could set up the Harry Maguire fan club - London branch, I really could.

But he's not our best player, nor has he ever been. We're a team fighting for promotion. Defence, whilst important, is not the be all and end all. We were bottom with the same centre back partnership that took us to 7th and to Wembley. It all changed because we had decent wingers (or the same, playing much better) and things ticking in the middle of midfield.

Were we losing Scougall, Murphy or most importantly Baxter, I'd be worried. Although very good at this level, Harry is much more replaceable than those 3 and far less important than getting a striker.

 

[moDtheGod]

Yes, it's all our fault.

Jesus wept.

What is "all our fault"? Negativity and constantly finding reasons to criticise the club? Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with that.

What you can't explain is how it is possible for a club to always have been "small minded" and for them to always be "small minded" in future. A hundred years ago the board and players were totally different to now. 50 years ago they were too. In 50 years time it will be another totally unrelated group of players, directors etc. So how is that physically possible, for them all to share the exact mindset?

Have a think about that and get back to me.

 

[yuley82]

End of first season in League one and we have to sell our best player Quinn, costs us our chances of promotion

End of second season in League one we have to sell our best player MacDonald, destroys our chances of promotion

End of third season in League one we have to sell our best player Maguire, sets back our chances of promotion?

If we don't go up this season see Murphy being the next out the revolving door...

If we don't go up the season after that it will be Scougall and so on...

Conclusion..

"WE HAVE TO GET OUT OF THIS DOG SHIT DIVISION!"

I am now back out of the hotel to the bars of Zante, See you for the Bristol game.

Selling macdonald didn't destroy our chances, appointing David Weir destroyed our chances!

 

[Revolution]

What is "all our fault"? Negativity and constantly finding reasons to criticise the club? Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with that.

What you can't explain is how it is possible for a club to always have been "small minded" and for them to always be "small minded" in future. A hundred years ago the board and players were totally different to now. 50 years ago they were too. In 50 years time it will be another totally unrelated group of players, directors etc. So how is that physically possible, for them all to share the exact mindset?

Have a think about that and get back to me.

I'll save myself the trouble and recommend "fit and proper to you".

Aside from:

- the first 18 months of Mcdonalds reign

- the first 3 years of Brearley's reign

- about 2 years of the McCabe era

Whoever has been in charge has penny pinched and sold our best players. Many of our best periods have been when the manager has done well despite, not because of, the board. The Bassett era is the classic example of this.

Anyone who has studied the history of the club can tell you this.

 

[blade too long]

these theories that selling one player wrecks our chance are frightening , what if any of those mentioned suffered a cruciate ligame injury first 2 games in those seasons , does that mean wed just been unlucky not to go up or still be bad for not replacing them

as to quinn we got 90 points that season , scored shit loads of goals 29 out of 30 seasons wed have won the title with that

 

[Revolution]

these theories that selling one player wrecks our chance are frightening , what if any of those mentioned suffered a cruciate ligame injury first 2 games in those seasons , does that mean wed just been unlucky not to go up or still be bad for not replacing them

as to quinn we got 90 points that season , scored shit loads of goals 29 out of 30 seasons wed have won the title with that

If you think selling one player makes no difference to a teams chances, I have 2 words for you: Brian Deane.

 

[Lowen]

It's not so much the selling, it's the fees and where the money goes. Still haven't replaced Blackman 18 months after he left.
How hard can it be to find a striker? And i don't mean some dumpling who scored a few goals in the SPL, who may be an inspired signing but most probably will end up being flooged for next to nowt at the end of the season. If we spent £1m on any player, i think we'd all be stunned into next tuesday. Could have probably got Brayford for £1m a month ago, seems no chance now cos he's been playing well pre-season apparently. So presumably Brayford won't happen and all this lovely money we're rolling in from the "investment", the cup run, and now Maguire going, we will 100% be splashing out on a proven striker imminently. But who really expects that to happen? And don't come out with all this "there's none available" cobblers, if there's not 1 striker in the entire world who is better than deadly Chris Porter, would come here and wouldn't cost more than £1m-ish then we all may as well give up.

I wonder where Blackmans goals rank in our top scorer list on the past two seasons. In two whole seasons I can only think of Porter who has scored more than Blackman in half of one.

 

[drinksmat]

Certanties in life - death, taxes and selling our "best" players. Player offered far more money than we can offer, player leaves. Simple

Right now Clough is pretty highly regarded by many - Newsflash: one day he'll be off as well. Will there be a similar thread with hand wringing that we can't keep our best managers?

If this happens every year then we should be used to it by now. What happened in the PL season - was Unsworth our best player?

 

[BeardedSaXon]

I don't care who the player is, be it McDonald, Maguire, Quinn, Lowton or any other player mentioned in this thread then if he wants to go and no longer wants to wear the colours of my club then they can FUCK off!

 

[Worksop_Blade]

Anyone that thinks the sale of a big turtle slow centre back, in the last 12 months of his contract, to a club playing 2 divisions higher and in Europe this season for £2.5million will ultimately cost SUFC promotion is a proper grade A pillock.

 

[Pinchy]

Anyone that thinks the sale of a big turtle slow centre back, in the last 12 months of his contract, to a club playing 2 divisions higher and in Europe this season for £2.5million will ultimately cost SUFC promotion is a proper grade A pillock.

As is anyone who seriously believes that a self-indulgent statement by Barry Fry would actually deter a club wanting to buy one of his players from making an offer way below that price.

Risible, but that's the order of the day on here just now I'm afraid.

 

[Rodley]

Modthegod has a point. Look at Jim Phipps Twitter feed, it's cringeworthy the hassle he gets!

 

[JOEYDEE]

It's not so much the selling, it's the fees and where the money goes. Still haven't replaced Blackman 18 months after he left.
How hard can it be to find a striker? And i don't mean some dumpling who scored a few goals in the SPL, who may be an inspired signing but most probably will end up being flooged for next to nowt at the end of the season. If we spent £1m on any player, i think we'd all be stunned into next tuesday. Could have probably got Brayford for £1m a month ago, seems no chance now cos he's been playing well pre-season apparently. So presumably Brayford won't happen and all this lovely money we're rolling in from the "investment", the cup run, and now Maguire going, we will 100% be splashing out on a proven striker imminently. But who really expects that to happen? And don't come out with all this "there's none available" cobblers, if there's not 1 striker in the entire world who is better than deadly Chris Porter, would come here and wouldn't cost more than £1m-ish then we all may as well give up.

Ken Mc,
Ive just had a raging argument with two dummies on my thread 'Why no striker'on EXACTLY the same thing !If a team has no front line strikers (which really we have none !),how the fk can we expect to be up there..it's pure common sense,one even said we won't miss CC,and Bray(Bray was a luxury !)ffs I give up!Ah well we've only had 9 months to sort one or two out,but apparently there is no one out there for us ....