The disallowed 'goal'

[Large Mendonca]

I have a problem. The way I feel today, I am done with football where VAR is concerned, which means I'm done with the Premier League. I'm quite happy to watch it on the telly when United aren't involved because I give few fucks about the teams. So, I should be happy that I'll be watching United in the Championship with no VAR. But what will we be playing for? A place in the Premier League. What, then, is the fucking point?

I'll be honest with you, I'm in a pretty dark place today and feel like I'm at some sort of crossroads.

Touché

 

[Sithblade]

View attachment 211840

If that player had been stood just a bit closer to the post, all the is Vini blocking the keepers sight, becomes irrelevant. Even though by been stood near the keeper's right post, he'd have made fuck all difference to it going in.
I've not seen any clip showing how much he was off by.

 

[Selly]

Looking at that angle, I am unconvinced the lino would have even 100% spotted it. Pre VAR I reckon it's 50/50 the flag goes up.

 

[Selly]

If that player had been stood just a bit closer to the post, all the is Vini blocking the keepers sight, becomes irrelevant. Even though by been stood near the keeper's right post, he'd have made fuck all difference to it going in.
I've not seen any clip showing how much he was off by.

They had a goal line camera on the broadcast, but it doesn't seem to be in any of the highlights packages. He's probably a yard ish offside.

 

[Tony Currie]

VAR causes huge eight-minute delay as League One play-off final descends into chaos. The stoppage came at an inopportune time for the O's as they were in the ascendancy in pursuit of the equaliser.

Why are they introducing this in the Championship and league one finals - smacks of jobs for the old boys!

 

[Inter_blade83]

Was Vini in an offside position? Yes

Was he in the keepers line of sight of the ball when it was struck? No - 2 Sunderland players and another United player were

Did he move across the keepers sight of the ball - Yes - as the ball was about 6 yards out

Vini, why didn't you step left instead? Ffs.

 

[Brian Blessed]

but Vini was stood to the left of their goalie when the ball was struck

Look at the side view above, he's standing offside about a yard away from the keeper, on the side the ball goes and the way he needs to dive, he's also between the keeper and the ball on its way in. If you still don't think that's interfering with play or impacting the keeper, I don't know what to tell you. Whether he'd have actually saved it or it'd gone in anyway is irrelevant in terms of the offside.

 

[Hockey'sBeard]

I still think that’s a goal and every week in championship it would be.
Felt like they had to use VAR in final - don’t think I saw their players complaining after Burrows scored but them of course it’s right decision when tv analyse it. It’s completely screwing up the joy of watching football when it takes 5 mins to confirm/disallow a goal

Funny to see Villa are now complaining about referee after today’s match
Didn’t see them complain much when their goal line technology failed against us a few years ago
Karma ?

 

[botoble]

This goal will only ever be chalked off by VAR so it’s a goal in every other setting.

With that in mind what’s not to stop a new type of defending in the premier league. Once a ball is headed out towards an attacking midfielder all defenders create offside trap and goalkeeper moves to a position where he can’t see ball due to attacker in the box, keeper can just let the ball go in and say yeah but someone was in my eye line… it’s absolute nonsense and can ruin the long range shot after a set piece. I also think if that goal had gone in against us I wouldn’t be arguing that it should have been chalked off. Be fuming we failed to close Burrows down, I also think cooper saves it as he’s a better keeper then Souza taps in and that 2nd phase is called offside.

On top of this, VAR has proven in the last 2 weeks to be absolutely broken yet the PGMOL can’t help but defend their abysmal performances. The 3 biggest games, FA cup final, Play off final
& Villas champions league chance against Man U.

If you want to go down the route of “by the letter of the law” route, then there is no defence of Hendersons handball or the Villa tap in but every over-head kick would be a high foot and there would be a freekick or penalty every corner whether it be offside interfering with play, pushing etc.

Scrap VAR for me, bad refereeing decisions were an annoying part of football of the past, VAR is destroying modern football, the momentum shifts, reserved goal celebrations and the disparity in rules between the prem and the rest of football is an issue. Does this differing in rules make it harder for promoted teams to stay in the division?

 

[MobileBlade]

I think a few on here aren’t sure of the law. It doesn’t matter that he wasn’t stood in front of Patterson when the shot was hit, they’ve ruled it out because Patterson can’t commit to a dive because he has to wait to see if your lad changes the trajectory of the ball.

He’s not in his eyeline, but he’s interfering with play. It’s the correct decision. VAR shouldn’t be used in a one off game after not having it for 48 games mind.

I agree. There are a few who aren't sure of Law 11. Yourself included. Here's the relevant bit

2. Offside offence

A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
- interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
interfering with an opponent by:
- preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
challenging an opponent for the ball or
clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or
- making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball
*The first point of contact of the 'play' or 'touch' of the ball should be used

 

[thehet]

I agree. There are a few who aren't sure of Law 11. Yourself included. Here's the relevant bit

2. Offside offence

A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
- interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
interfering with an opponent by:
- preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
challenging an opponent for the ball or
clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or
- making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball
*The first point of contact of the 'play' or 'touch' of the ball should be used

And which of these reasons was Souza found guilty of, because as far as I can tell, he was not clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision.

 

[MobileBlade]

And which of these reasons was Souza found guilty of, because as far as I can tell, he was not clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision.

According to the referee he was .........

 

[thehet]

According to the referee he was .........

Well, the video one.

It proves why it’s such a stupid law. Deciding on the keepers behalf whether someone was making him unsighted. Ludicrous.

 

[wadblade]

Ex Ref Keith Hackett, however, strongly disagreed. Taking to X (formerly Twitter), the ex-referee said: “This is a subjective decision. My first thought was clearly the player was in an offside position. However, did he obstruct the view of the goalkeeper? My view is that this goal should have been allowed.”


He went further in a follow-up post: “On first view I said: ‘offside’. Then on review I do not think that the United player interfered with the goalkeeper. Goalkeeper visually could see the ball, the player offside did not impact on the goalkeeper’s movement.”

 

[RichSAFC]

Sunderland fan here.

Imo, the goal was 50/50 on whether it should have stood. My heart sank when seeing the replay as I couldn't see much wrong with it. I can see why it was disallowed, but can also argue why it should have been allowed.

The whole offside/interfering/not interfering rule seems to be a complete mess.

What a strike btw.

 

[finlaytheblade]

Looking at that angle, I am unconvinced the lino would have even 100% spotted it. Pre VAR I reckon it's 50/50 the flag goes up.

Keith Hacket retired. top ref said the goal should have stood,He's a pig fan so no axe to grind.
These kind of decisions are subjective ( opinion) that's not what VAR was brought in for! Killing the gàme.

 

[ucandomagic]

Souza is offside when Burrows takes the kick but is not blocking Paterson’s view. Moore flicks Burrows shot with his head. At that moment Souza is back onside, but is completely blocking Paterson’s view of Moore’s head and the ball. The moment Moore heads it is the end of phase1, and Souza is interfering with play having come from an offside position at the start of that phase. Hence, the decision is technically correct.

 

[UddersBlade]

Forget it…..it was offside.

The good news is that we won’t have to suffer this shite VAR ruining the 46 games we play next year. …………unless we sadly end up at Wembley again in the play off final!!!!!!!!

 

[ThirdGenBlade]

Souza is offside when Burrows takes the kick but is not blocking Paterson’s view. Moore flicks Burrows shot with his head. At that moment Souza is back onside, but is completely blocking Paterson’s view of Moore’s head and the ball. The moment Moore heads it is the end of phase1, and Souza is interfering with play having come from an offside position at the start of that phase. Hence, the decision is technically correct.

Brilliantly clear and factual as ever Graphman.

I still don’t like it, but now at least I understand it!

UTB & FTP!

 

[SuperSonicBlade89]

Offside in general just needs binning.

We go to watch goals as far as I'm concerned. Offside rule forces teams to piss about with the ball in midfield passing backwards and forward. There is no real excitement there until the winger with space gets the ball to "get in behind" or the CM goes on a marauding run.

Without offside, defenders actually have to play football and get stuck in. Not maintain an imaginary line for 90 mins that causes some sort of controversy every other week. The game in some aspects becomes more tactical, with shifting formations and we would see a lot of goals or maybe even fewer, it would depend how teams would set up.

It would never happen nowadays anyway. If anything, the game we love is just going to get more corporate with more rules imposed. They ain't getting rid of VAR now. I assume it with trickle it's way down the professional leagues when the tech gets dirt cheap.

 

[thehet]

Souza is offside when Burrows takes the kick but is not blocking Paterson’s view. Moore flicks Burrows shot with his head. At that moment Souza is back onside, but is completely blocking Paterson’s view of Moore’s head and the ball. The moment Moore heads it is the end of phase1, and Souza is interfering with play having come from an offside position at the start of that phase. Hence, the decision is technically correct.

I don’t believe Moore heads it.

 

[Groucho Blade]

I have no idea what the protocol with flagging is in this spot where everyone knows VAR is going to check it anyway. I'm more making the point that I'm not exactly old and I can remember the days of "if you're offside, you're offside" and that for the vast majority of the history of football that goal is disallowed.

And yet it wasn’t flagged on Saturday …

 

[mattbianco1]

I don’t believe Moore heads it.

No he doesn't. He ducks out of the way of it

 

[MobileBlade]

Souza is offside when Burrows takes the kick but is not blocking Paterson’s view. Moore flicks Burrows shot with his head. At that moment Souza is back onside, but is completely blocking Paterson’s view of Moore’s head and the ball. The moment Moore heads it is the end of phase1, and Souza is interfering with play having come from an offside position at the start of that phase. Hence, the decision is technically correct.

Don't think that what the Law states. If you're saying Moore touched the ball and Souza was onside at that point then it's not offside. The issue seems to be that after Burrows shot, Souza moved towards the keeper thus interfering with him. However the Law does not say that. It clearly states the moment it is played or touch. At that point he was neither blocking the view or challenging and therefore is not offside. The Law is quite simple.

 

[KOPPO]

dont bother going up it has VAR in top league its a crapo machine it favoured the poor team black cats 12th man was cheating VAR ,amazing goal by burrows ffs cheats

 

[Rochdaleblade]

The fact that people are still arguing two days later suggests that it wasn't clear and obvious.

 

[Gimli]

Wish it had just hit the post or gone narrowly wide. If it hadn’t gone in then we don’t have the huge momentum shift of us thinking we’re 2 up then Sunderland getting the lift afterwards.

 

[CPB]

Wish it had just hit the post or gone narrowly wide. If it hadn’t gone in then we don’t have the huge momentum shift of us thinking we’re 2 up then Sunderland getting the lift afterwards.

Up until this point Sunderland had offered zero.... they still barely mustered a shot in the 1st half afterwards but the play was deffo becoming more into our half.

I still think that’s a goal and every week in championship it would be.
Felt like they had to use VAR in final - don’t think I saw their players complaining after Burrows scored but them of course it’s right decision when tv analyse it. It’s completely screwing up the joy of watching football when it takes 5 mins to confirm/disallow a goal

Funny to see Villa are now complaining about referee after today’s match
Didn’t see them complain much when their goal line technology failed against us a few years ago
Karma ?

Exactly this... officials cannot see this clearly without VAR. Even then it's a subjective decision. You'd sway to it Vini interfering with line of sight,yet Paterson does see enough to dive the correct way. He isn't saving it mind because it's flown in.

 

[Booker4]

It's only in hindsight that I've thought the s but if our players had done all they could post the goal to be quick with the celebration, so the match kicks off again then would there might have been more of a chance the goal could have stood?

 

[Selly]

The fact that people are still arguing two days later suggests that it wasn't clear and obvious.

Hardly, let's be honest here, we have a vested interest in the outcome AND we lost. We don't have a 6 page thread if we win.

It's only in hindsight that I've thought the s but if our players had done all they could post the goal to be quick with the celebration, so the match kicks off again then would there might have been more of a chance the goal could have stood?

Unlikely, the ref would have waited for the VAR check to be completed.

Wish it had just hit the post or gone narrowly wide. If it hadn’t gone in then we don’t have the huge momentum shift of us thinking we’re 2 up then Sunderland getting the lift afterwards.

Or indeed the Lino had actually flagged for it.