VictoryBlade
BobbyJ
Not at allDid the keeper or players even protest, I was jumping up and down at the time.
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Not at allDid the keeper or players even protest, I was jumping up and down at the time.
But he is offside when the ball is struck. He doesn't have to be directly in front of the keeper to impact him. At the other end and you agree.
Danny Blanchflower famously mocked that point of view by saying that if it were true, he would not have any defenders on the line at corners, because the corner taker would always be offside.I have no idea what the protocol with flagging is in this spot where everyone knows VAR is going to check it anyway. I'm more making the point that I'm not exactly old and I can remember the days of "if you're offside, you're offside" and that for the vast majority of the history of football that goal is disallowed.
I have no idea what the protocol with flagging is in this spot where everyone knows VAR is going to check it anyway. I'm more making the point that I'm not exactly old and I can remember the days of "if you're offside, you're offside" and that for the vast majority of the history of football that goal is disallowed.
Well we still do see it now where they take a short one, the other guy just stops it to let the original taker cross who is then instantly flagged. Can't cure stupid regardless of whenDanny Blanchflower famously mocked that point of view by saying that if it were true, he would not have any defenders on the line at corners, because the corner taker would always be offside.
I celebrated like many all the others there, premier league here we come, then, VAR it took the whole emotion of the moment away, right or wrong decision it changed the whole game, I sat down convinced they would come back and of course they did, Brooks could have sealed it ,but not to be, you sensed looking around at our fans they must have felt as deflated as they looked, football can be a cruel game and yesterday it wasTo my shame, I was watching the game in the pub (something I hardly ever do), and the experience finally convinced me that VAR in its current format is ruining the game, and will only get worse. There is a pretence that there is an objective truth to be found (in many circumstances in a game, there isn’t), and that the more video evidence is analysed, the more likely a ‘correct’ decision is reached (probably true). But reaching these decisions is killing the game for the live spectator, is designed for tv entertainment, and asks the wrong questions. The moment of scoring a goal is the peak emotion of the game, but VAR currently immediately asks ‘How can we find a way of disallowing this goal?’
United players, fans in the pub and ground were celebrating a great goal. Sunderland team and fans were flat. A few (sensible) Wednesdayites in the pub were saying how United were going to win easily. And the casual sports fans commented on a great goal, and went back to talking about golf or motor racing. The commentators on Tv were admiring the goal. And then the word VAR appeared. Blades fans were immediately depressed, convinced a way would be found of disallowing it. The Wednesdayites were surprised, but doubtful there was anything wrong. The casuals became very interested, and watched every detail of every replay. Great for tv, but killing the game for the committed fan. We Blades were all depressed at half-time, as if we were losing. Sunderland were clearly revitalised. And Sky were no longer admiring Burrows’ scoring record at Wembley, but discussing the opinion (not the fact) of whether the goalie’s line of vision was impaired. With a different mindset, they could look at every corner to determine which of the half-dozen players pulling shirts should be penalised, but they are not asked to look at that. The big moment for tv is ‘how can we turn this moment of drama’ into a ‘made for tv discussion’. What next? Each team could have its lawyers pitch side, and have 10 minutes to discuss any decision they don’t like. Combines sport and courtroom drama. Great for the tv viewer, who can open another beer and watch. Terrible for the fans in the stadium. Just because you CAN do something doesn’t mean you should do it. End of rant.
for the vast majority of the history of football that goal is disallowed immediately.
I entirely agree with you on the offside is offside. I'd far rather it was that simple
No it isn't. It can only be picked up with Video technology as it all happened so fast.for the vast majority of the history of football that goal is disallowed immediately.
I entirely agree with you on the offside is offside. I'd far rather it was that simple
If he was offside and interfering with the goalie fair enough without VAR though we would have been 2 up and I beleave we would have gone on to win convincinglyIt could have gone either way and the ref took the easy option. If it had been against us I’d have wanted it disallowed though.
Great post Hodgy ! You are spot onTo my shame, I was watching the game in the pub (something I hardly ever do), and the experience finally convinced me that VAR in its current format is ruining the game, and will only get worse. There is a pretence that there is an objective truth to be found (in many circumstances in a game, there isn’t), and that the more video evidence is analysed, the more likely a ‘correct’ decision is reached (probably true). But reaching these decisions is killing the game for the live spectator, is designed for tv entertainment, and asks the wrong questions. The moment of scoring a goal is the peak emotion of the game, but VAR currently immediately asks ‘How can we find a way of disallowing this goal?’
United players, fans in the pub and ground were celebrating a great goal. Sunderland team and fans were flat. A few (sensible) Wednesdayites in the pub were saying how United were going to win easily. And the casual sports fans commented on a great goal, and went back to talking about golf or motor racing. The commentators on Tv were admiring the goal. And then the word VAR appeared. Blades fans were immediately depressed, convinced a way would be found of disallowing it. The Wednesdayites were surprised, but doubtful there was anything wrong. The casuals became very interested, and watched every detail of every replay. Great for tv, but killing the game for the committed fan. We Blades were all depressed at half-time, as if we were losing. Sunderland were clearly revitalised. And Sky were no longer admiring Burrows’ scoring record at Wembley, but discussing the opinion (not the fact) of whether the goalie’s line of vision was impaired. With a different mindset, they could look at every corner to determine which of the half-dozen players pulling shirts should be penalised, but they are not asked to look at that. The big moment for tv is ‘how can we turn this moment of drama’ into a ‘made for tv discussion’. What next? Each team could have its lawyers pitch side, and have 10 minutes to discuss any decision they don’t like. Combines sport and courtroom drama. Great for the tv viewer, who can open another beer and watch. Terrible for the fans in the stadium. Just because you CAN do something doesn’t mean you should do it. End of rant.
Whether the player is interfering with play, though, remains, an opinion, not a fact. There has to be a point where someone decides on the basis of evidence. At the moment the mindset is ‘Can we find a way of disallowing this goal?’ It would be theoretically possible to go back to a throw-in, and decide it was taken a centimetre from the spot where the ball went out, and disallow any goal which followed. Would that be worth it, in the name of accuracy? We surely want the game to flow as much as possible, and allow referees to make judgments. Nobody seemed to be questioning Burrows goal, but was it worth all that time to find a way of disallowing it, and did they try to find evidence of any shirt-pulling from the corner, in case we should have had a penalty? With a system of one appeal per match, would Sunderland have reviewed that goal? I don’t think the players on the pitch would.No it isn't. It can only be picked up with Video technology as it all happened so fast.
Sorry meant 2/3 per gameUnless we get to the final again...
Agree
That's too many IMO.
2 per game, at most. And you have to be specific about what you are challenging for. No challenge and look for anything.
"Player x was offside in the build up"
"Handball by player Y"
Make it for the clanger.
If that is accurate then they've made a mistake. You can clearly see from that image the Sunderland player (no7) is in line with the keeper. So if Moore touches it, it becomes a new phase? Therefore you have to redraw the lines?View attachment 211822
When Moore flicks it, Souza is probably impeding the goalie's vision, but he is no longer offside...
Im going to Marine next season.Last season, for the first time ever, I actually went to more of my local teams northern premier league matches than United matches. I'll never have the passion for them that I do for the Blades but I'll be going there even more next season as football at that level is still the game I fell in love with as a kid.
And there was way more than 4 minutes delay, I'd wager, in that time.101st minute by the time he blew the whistle.
Oddly enough, that was where I was at on our last Wembley visit before yesterdayIm going to Marine next season.
They are in NLN, did very well finishing a commendable 16th without a fraction of the budget of a lot of clubs in that league.Oddly enough, that was where I was at on our last Wembley visit before yesterday
Exactly. VAR destroys the childlike joy you go to the game for. It introduces an alienating feeling. A dread that almost feels like guilt. The ball hits the net, you let go and celebrate. But within seconds your brain interrupts the innocent joy you feel and DESERVE to feel by a thought of „could anything still be wrong here.“I've not got a problem with it being flagged as offside as soon as Burrows shoots. A moment of frustration and then on with the game.
I have got a problem with celebrating wildly, the goal being announced over the tannoy, the scoreboard showing 2v0 and then the sense of dread building over the minutes of the VAR check before it is ruled out.
For me, it's the correct decision, but it's not football as I used to know and love it.
but Vini was stood to the left of their goalie when the ball was struckWhen the ref was connected to the stadium pa he said SU number 21 was ruled offside due to interfering with the keepers sight of the ball. i.e. Vini
they were stood onside and made no attempt to block anybodyYou’re right but blocking is still obstruction and hence a foul though isn’t it. That whole area of the game is a complete shambles at the moment.
Will you look good in uniform?Im going to Marine next season.
Exactly what most fans are annoyed with.So why wasn't he flagged in this one? Even if the linesman knew the goal would be checked he should raise his flag if he believed it to be offside.
If nothing else it puts an immediate pause on the celebrations and avoids the massive letdown (which I don't think the players or the fans fully recovered from).
Playing with VAR really does alter the sport on a fundamental level. It really shouldn't be anywhere near the PO finals.
Hence why they people have now said - do we need them anymore?Exactly what most fans are annoyed with.
Lino’s have zero responsibility at all now on most offsides. It’s all automated to some extent. Or they let play go on only flagging at the last minute if there’s a goal threat on.
I was talking about corners in general, not this incidentthey were stood onside and made no attempt to block anybody
Yes, between the keeper and the path of the ball - that was the issue. Look, I think its bollocks as no keeper in the world would save that volley. However, VAR provides umpteen opportunities for theoretical interpretation of play to a) bugger up the game for fans and b) “influence” resultsbut Vini was stood to the left of their goalie when the ball was struck
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