The Case for Chris Wilder

[Slugger]

1. If we go down (and it is still an "if" despite the defeatist negativity on here) I cannot think of a single manager who would be more likely to take us back up.

2. Wilder clearly still has the dressing room. No lack of effort from any of the players despite the nightmare of a season so far. Quite an achievement to be able to keep a squad together and focussed particularly when there is frequent change in 6 or 7 positions.

3. Fine margins. Yes we've been shocking all season but not that shocking. Some 1 goal defeats could have been 1 goal victories and it's easy to see where we could have had at least 9 more points (Fulham's position). I would very much doubt that if we were in Fulham's position that there would even be a conversation about Wilder's future despite the poor performances.

4. The Prince backs him. He has invested money into the club and knows a little bit more about what is going on behind the scenes than those calling for Wilder to go.

5. Wilder has not suddenly gone from being one of the finest managers in the country to one of the worse. The team are going through a bad period. Unless limitless money was going to be thrown into the pot, it was always going to happen. You can see how much the situation is hurting Wilder and I would imagine he's working his nuts off trying to fix things. This is more than just another job to him. Those of us who have followed the team over decades can remember quite a few clowns running things who probably didn't lose too much sleep when things weren't going well. Be careful what you wish for. Wilder is undoubtedly one of the finest mangers in our history. Losing him now would be a big mistake.

6. Signings. These are mostly young players some of whom (Berge, Brewster) Wilder has had to work hard to convince to join us and convince them that they will thrive here. Perhaps agents may have tried to convince them to hold out for bigger wages elsewhere. We are not a big spending club when it comes to wages so they obviously have bought into his ideas and aims for the future. Will a replacement manager get the best out of them? (I know Wilder hasn't yet but it's absolute madness to be judging a young player after a few games in a struggling team)

7. After we beat Burnley tomorrow, there's no better man to start us on a run to safety!

 

[Houston_Blade]

8. He’s not Sam Allardyce

 

[BushBlade]

5. Wilder has not suddenly gone from being one of the finest managers in the country to one of the worse. The team are going through a bad period. Unless limitless money was going to be thrown into the pot, it was always going to happen. You can see how much the situation is hurting Wilder and I would imagine he's working his nuts off trying to fix things. This is more than just another job to him. Those of us who have followed the team over decades can remember quite a few clowns running things who probably didn't lose too much sleep when things weren't going well. Be careful what you wish for. Wilder is undoubtedly one of the finest mangers in our history. Losing him now would be a big mistake.

He’s certainly been one of our most successful post war managers but are we sure he’s one of the finest managers in the country? I recall Paul Lambert winning back to back promotions with Norwich, I remember Phil Brown having a great season with Hull in the PL, Megson working miracles at West Brom, Pardew looking great at Reading, Adkins winning back to back promotions with Southampton, at the time they all looked great up and coming managers. It’s possible that Wilder is one of those, that in five years he’s trying to get Rotherham out of L1 and people are saying ‘remember when he was smashing it with the Blades, seems a long time ago now’. I’m not saying he is, just that it’s possible.

 

[Mumbo]

1. If we go down (and it is still an "if" despite the defeatist negativity on here) I cannot think of a single manager who would be more likely to take us back up.

2. Wilder clearly still has the dressing room. No lack of effort from any of the players despite the nightmare of a season so far. Quite an achievement to be able to keep a squad together and focussed particularly when there is frequent change in 6 or 7 positions.

3. Fine margins. Yes we've been shocking all season but not that shocking. Some 1 goal defeats could have been 1 goal victories and it's easy to see where we could have had at least 9 more points (Fulham's position). I would very much doubt that if we were in Fulham's position that there would even be a conversation about Wilder's future despite the poor performances.

4. The Prince backs him. He has invested money into the club and knows a little bit more about what is going on behind the scenes than those calling for Wilder to go.

5. Wilder has not suddenly gone from being one of the finest managers in the country to one of the worse. The team are going through a bad period. Unless limitless money was going to be thrown into the pot, it was always going to happen. You can see how much the situation is hurting Wilder and I would imagine he's working his nuts off trying to fix things. This is more than just another job to him. Those of us who have followed the team over decades can remember quite a few clowns running things who probably didn't lose too much sleep when things weren't going well. Be careful what you wish for. Wilder is undoubtedly one of the finest mangers in our history. Losing him now would be a big mistake.

6. Signings. These are mostly young players some of whom (Berge, Brewster) Wilder has had to work hard to convince to join us and convince them that they will thrive here. Perhaps agents may have tried to convince them to hold out for bigger wages elsewhere. We are not a big spending club when it comes to wages so they obviously have bought into his ideas and aims for the future. Will a replacement manager get the best out of them? (I know Wilder hasn't yet but it's absolute madness to be judging a young player after a few games in a struggling team)

7. After we beat Burnley tomorrow, there's no better man to start us on a run to safety!

If we get nowt from the next 2 games I think he’ll
offer his resignation.Stating that his best is’nt good enough for SUFC.

 

[Harry's Game]

1. If we go down (and it is still an "if" despite the defeatist negativity on here)”

Yes, Technically we are not down yet..

...but only in the same way a man falling from the 50th floor of a skyscraper isn’t dead yet as he plummets past floor 21.

 

[Farnboroughblade]

Good OP apart from the first part of point 7. Usually I'm an optimist, but can't see us getting anything much from Burnley, perhaps a point and regarding Mumbo's thread, I believe there will come a time when CW will offer his resignation should these dire results continue, but highly likely that the Prince will refuse it and so he should.

 

[Grappler]

I would hazard a guess that most managers have been through shitty spells in lower leagues, learnt lessons the hard way, been a bit smarter about certain situations when things got back on track.

When Chris Wilder joined us, that was his first taste of League One. 12 months later he was having his first taste as a manager in the Championship. Not saying we would have had back to back promotion, but with Paul Coutts in the team, we would have had a good crack at it, and we went up automatically a year later.

Chris Wilder's first taste of life as a Premier League manager. I think The Prince said, around that time, that he expected to build a good team in the Championship, over the space of around five years, so we had been promoted three years ahead of his pre-thought out schedule.

Unfortunately, the "bad season" or "bad run", that other managers might have learnt from in the lower leagues, is hitting Chris Wilder on the biggest club stage in world football, in full public view. He is having to cope with a bad run while being under a microscope. That's his job and that's what he gets paid for, but it can't be easy.

 

[Tezza1889]

I'd hope that he sticks with it, a bit of positivity and less of the hoof we might just create a few more chances, but he's got to learn from this and come back stronger, we're not a knee jerk fan base and he's still got credit in the bank I think..

If we get relegated then so be it, if its not working in the championship with the bulk of this squad as I can't see many coming in for our players Egan & Berge excluded, then we need a rethink.

But there's a lot of football still to play between then and now.. If we have one positive it's time on our side, I know it runs out..but none the less..

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

Good op. I think CW needs to up his game in the same way the players do.
He's suffered in losing some of the gems he found, but his luck in signing new gems has dropped off.
I don't like the respect being given to the opposition post match either. The biggest thing we are missing is the ' fuck em, let's get into em' attitude, and that needs to come from him.

 

[FMBlade1]

If he's able to adapt and change (tactically, staffing wise, scouting etc) , take responsibiliteh and stop blaming everyone else and feeling sorry for himself then there is no-one else better.

Sadly I see little evidence of any of that happening anytime soon

 

[dublin 10 blade]

We may be ( probably are now ) going down
As I see it , the time to change manager has long gone 4/6 weeks ago , although I’d still stick with CW/AK
We now need to concentrate on next season blood young players from our under age teams there are 1 or 2 that could come onto the bench
Gradually ease out our older players,
Stevens / Fleck / Norwood / Billy ,
We will probably lose at least 4 as well when we go down , they have been fantastic for us over the last few seasons, is this how they want to be remembered, going down without a fight and being remembered for this season of doom , rather than the previous 4 seasons when they were a joy and a pleasure to watch
We have 23 ? Games left to get ourselves ready for next season , get a system in place , get a bit of confidence back and yes start playing the team for next season now
Yes McBurnie-Brewster-Burke up top get them used to playing together , get a back four in place , without Egan /JOC ( who will probably go close season ) Robinson in the premier league isn’t an answer
Our midfield is a minefield and I’m struggling to find a solid 4 for it , maybe get someone in if they’ll come ? to prepare for next season
Unfortunately this one is gone we’re going down so let’s start the rebuild on the younger blocks we have
Financially as a club we are secure going forward
Thought we’d finish 14th but now accepting we’re going down but it’s how we go down that counts

 

[Tezza1889]

Good op. I think CW needs to up his game in the same way the players do.
He's suffered in losing some of the gems he found, but his luck in signing new gems has dropped off.
I don't like the respect being given to the opposition post match either. The biggest thing we are missing is the ' fuck em, let's get into em' attitude, and that needs to come from him.

100% agree, can we have the swagger back... The post match "quality" acknowledgement is a bit warnock esque... It should be we've just took 2nd place Everton all the way, bit of spin on the situation and think positive.. Can't hurt.

 

[Farnboroughblade]

Blimey lads, we're doing well, up to 9 threads so far on this post without being shot down in flames from the negative anti Wilder brigade. Perhaps they're still in bed contemplating their navels.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

Which Chris Wilder are you making a case for?

 

[Gavlar]

1. If we go down (and it is still an "if" despite the defeatist negativity on here) I cannot think of a single manager who would be more likely to take us back up.

2. Wilder clearly still has the dressing room. No lack of effort from any of the players despite the nightmare of a season so far. Quite an achievement to be able to keep a squad together and focussed particularly when there is frequent change in 6 or 7 positions.

3. Fine margins. Yes we've been shocking all season but not that shocking. Some 1 goal defeats could have been 1 goal victories and it's easy to see where we could have had at least 9 more points (Fulham's position). I would very much doubt that if we were in Fulham's position that there would even be a conversation about Wilder's future despite the poor performances.

4. The Prince backs him. He has invested money into the club and knows a little bit more about what is going on behind the scenes than those calling for Wilder to go.

5. Wilder has not suddenly gone from being one of the finest managers in the country to one of the worse. The team are going through a bad period. Unless limitless money was going to be thrown into the pot, it was always going to happen. You can see how much the situation is hurting Wilder and I would imagine he's working his nuts off trying to fix things. This is more than just another job to him. Those of us who have followed the team over decades can remember quite a few clowns running things who probably didn't lose too much sleep when things weren't going well. Be careful what you wish for. Wilder is undoubtedly one of the finest mangers in our history. Losing him now would be a big mistake.

6. Signings. These are mostly young players some of whom (Berge, Brewster) Wilder has had to work hard to convince to join us and convince them that they will thrive here. Perhaps agents may have tried to convince them to hold out for bigger wages elsewhere. We are not a big spending club when it comes to wages so they obviously have bought into his ideas and aims for the future. Will a replacement manager get the best out of them? (I know Wilder hasn't yet but it's absolute madness to be judging a young player after a few games in a struggling team)

7. After we beat Burnley tomorrow, there's no better man to start us on a run to safety!

Come back to me when we have beaten Burnley!

On the whole you make some good points. I was very much for CWAK until v recently. My worry though is that Wilder has run out of ideas now and is too stubborn to change his formation that clearly isn't working. We are basically losing every week and are on course for the worse total points ever recorded in the premier league. Why would we stick with that?

We have lost the majority of our games by the odd goal, but we haven't kept a single clean sheet all season. Every other team has. Why can't we?
I worry that buying Ramsdale was a mistake, at least for the premier league. In the long run, he might come good, but last season and so far in this one, he has not looked premier league class. That much is obvious.

I also really don't understand why Bogle wasn't given a run in the last game after doing really well or why McBurnie always gets a game, when he is so limited. He can head a ball and tries hard but that's it. Didzy has been our best striker this season and he gets hauled off in the middle of the second half! Hopefully Mouse can rediscover some of last seasons form.

The left hand side is the biggeset problem though, losing JOC has been awful, but what on earth has happened to Stevens and Fleck? Norwood has gone backwards as well and the way Lunny has played regularly when he wants out really makes me question Wilder for the first time.

The signings havent yet worked out, but there is time for them to come good, they are young and hopefully will improve.

Much to work on.

 

[BlairBlade]

I think that whatever happens at Burnley tomorrow, for the rest of this season and next season (in the Championship - I would imagine) the Prince needs to source major investment so when we hopefully remain in/return to the Premiership we can buy the quality we need.
That is proven quality not simply ones who might mature over the coming seasons.
There is quality about both in the UK and abroad, but we are unable to pay the going rate - either in transfer fees and/or wages.
I have been impressed with the Prince and would hope that he could stay whilst getting the much needed investment in.
I think CWAK should stay but they could do with help - generally within the club and most certainly in the transfer market.

 

[FMBlade1]

I think that whatever happens at Burnley tomorrow, for the rest of this season and next season (in the Championship - I would imagine) the Prince needs to source major investment so when we hopefully remain in/return to the Premiership we can buy the quality we need.
That is proven quality not simply ones who might mature over the coming seasons.
There is quality about both in the UK and abroad, but we are unable to pay the going rate - either in transfer fees and/or wages.
I have been impressed with the Prince and would hope that he could stay whilst getting the much needed investment in.
I think CWAK should stay but they could do with help - generally within the club and most certainly in the transfer market.

Wilder sees help as a threat and would threaten to walk like he did when JVW was brought in

 

[BlairBlade]

Are there any really excellent German managers available?
Are there any excellent managers available, at all?
Should anyone come in (at all) they would need a few promises of many, many millions to turn this team around.
Let's not kid ourselves all these sensationally top managers, to name but a few; the twat with bright white teeth whom CW prevents from fielding enough players; Mourinho, Guardiola, Solskjaer, Lampard, etc. would not be able to achieve anything without spending many, many tens and tens of millions to achieve any sort of success.
They would not have been able to do what CW has done over the last few seasons (ignoring this one) without spending these vast sums of money.
If we want to be in the Premiership and play attractive football money, and lots of it, has to be spent.
We could of course have gone with someone like Sam Allardyce, although too late now. However, I am not sure he exists. I think that is a Spitting Image mask masquerading as a football manager who can't play attractive football.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

I think that whatever happens at Burnley tomorrow, for the rest of this season and next season (in the Championship - I would imagine) the Prince needs to source major investment so when we hopefully remain in/return to the Premiership we can buy the quality we need.
That is proven quality not simply ones who might mature over the coming seasons.
There is quality about both in the UK and abroad, but we are unable to pay the going rate - either in transfer fees and/or wages.
I have been impressed with the Prince and would hope that he could stay whilst getting the much needed investment in.
I think CWAK should stay but they could do with help - generally within the club and most certainly in the transfer market.

Part of the problem of going from League 1 to the prem is building a deep squad, that gels, quickly.
First season we were lucky. Now we've got some key injuries and our roll of the dice purchases have been hit and miss.

 

[DannyRotten]

I think that whatever happens at Burnley tomorrow, for the rest of this season and next season (in the Championship - I would imagine) the Prince needs to source major investment so when we hopefully remain in/return to the Premiership we can buy the quality we need.
That is proven quality not simply ones who might mature over the coming seasons.
There is quality about both in the UK and abroad, but we are unable to pay the going rate - either in transfer fees and/or wages.
I have been impressed with the Prince and would hope that he could stay whilst getting the much needed investment in.
I think CWAK should stay but they could do with help - generally within the club and most certainly in the transfer market.

The signings we had had at £18m and over haven't come because of anything other than Premiership money.

Any investment would be peanuts in comparison.

What is needed is a forward thinking manager who is not limited to a single thought process on how to win a game of football.

 

[DannyRotten]

I'm also fed up of Wilder putting the players under the bus, he's signed every single one of them except Basham.

 

[Swinton Blade]

I'm also fed up of Wilder putting the players under the bus, he's signed every single one of them except Basham.

So because he has signed them, he's not allowed to criticise them?

Get a grip.

Who do you want as our manager?

 

[Wards]

I'm also fed up of Wilder putting the players under the bus, he's signed every single one of them except Basham.

Why? They deserve to be under the bus. All of them have shown they’re more than capable last season so why are they getting a free pass? Not saying Wilder is blameless but the players should shoulder most of the responsibility - he can’t do their jobs for them and it’s not his fault most of them can’t string 4 or 5 passes together or shit themselves every time the ball comes to them.

 

[Bladeinleeds]

I'm also fed up of Wilder putting the players under the bus, he's signed every single one of them except Basham.

disagree!

it’s not all about tactics. Most of These players proved to be more than good enough for this level. They share equal blame for the predicament this season.

it’s hardly wilders fault they can no longer clear a ball properly, control a ball, make a pass, finish their dinners. Is it?

not one is playing anywhere near the top of their games

 

[DannyRotten]

So because he has signed them, he's not allowed to criticise them?

Get a grip.

Who do you want as our manager?

Someone who does not make excuses and critisised anyone and anything other than himself.

The tactics ARE different this season, surely people can see that?

Why are our players like scared animals in the headlights all of a sudden? They have been TOLD to play differently. Negativity will get us relegated, when we played without fear other teams feared US and we gave out a lot of bloody noses to some so called big clubs who did not know how to handle us as upstarts daring to play football against them in a manor no one else who gets promoted does.

I want to go back to that way of playing football please.

 

[dublin 10 blade]

Wilder sees help as a threat and would threaten to walk like he did when JVW was brought in

While I agree to a certain extent with what your saying
Nobody , not even our current manager is above
Our club , it’s future , and it’s / our well being
for the future

 

[FMBlade1]

While I agree to a certain extent with what your saying
Nobody , not even our current manager is above
Our club , it’s future , and it’s / our well being
for the future

Agreed.

The Prince should enhance our set up, and if Wilder threatens to walk then he can do so (that way we don't have to pay him compensation)

 

[blade too long]

very fine margins in the prem
we sit rock bottom due to 10 single goal defeats

leeds are getting praise for their cavalier attitude
their manager is up for manager of the season , but these current stats say hes a fraud

 

[Gavlar]

very fine margins in the prem
we sit rock bottom due to 10 single goal defeats

leeds are getting praise for their cavalier attitude
their manager is up for manager of the season , but these current stats say hes a fraud
View attachment 101596

The only stats that matter are the points column. The rest doesnt matter. Would you rather be in our position or Leeds?
Fraud my arse.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

Are there any really excellent German managers available?
Are there any excellent managers available, at all?
Should anyone come in (at all) they would need a few promises of many, many millions to turn this team around.
Let's not kid ourselves all these sensationally top managers, to name but a few; the twat with bright white teeth whom CW prevents from fielding enough players; Mourinho, Guardiola, Solskjaer, Lampard, etc. would not be able to achieve anything without spending many, many tens and tens of millions to achieve any sort of success.
They would not have been able to do what CW has done over the last few seasons (ignoring this one) without spending these vast sums of money.
If we want to be in the Premiership and play attractive football money, and lots of it, has to be spent.
We could of course have gone with someone like Sam Allardyce, although too late now. However, I am not sure he exists. I think that is a Spitting Image mask masquerading as a football manager who can't play attractive football.

I know what you’re saying, but Guardiola and Mourinho are true scholars of the game. The All or Nothing documentaries demonstrate they operate on another planet nevermind level. Their level of tactical understanding and ability to integrate big personalities into a winning team, across different leagues is truly exceptional in my view. I think it’s a complete myth that they couldn’t achieve success (relatively speaking) without money. I have no doubt pretty much every player in our squad would improve under either of them, much like what Wenger did for Adams, Bould, Parlour etc when he first came to Arsenal.