The Case for Chris Wilder

[Champagneblade]

It's quite easy actually:

Verrips
Baldock- Basham-Egan- Stevens
Bogle - Norwood/Rodwell- Lundstram - Osborne/Fleck
Brewster/Burke- Mc Burnie

With maybe McGoldrick at the tip of the diamond as an alternative with a CDM that can drop into a back 5, a role that Rodwell has played before.

And Gareth Bale and plenty of other players started as full backs then to become wingers.

Baldock and Bogle in tandem would work quite well IMHO

That’s where he’d have to play. Is he any good there in contrast to other players who have played there their entire careers?

He did well in a cameo. ls he ready to play a level higher than he’s ever played in a position he’s not played before?

He might do ok on the right of a 3 in a 5-3-2, 4-3-1-2, or 4-3-3. I think it would be asking a lot for him to be in a 2 where the role would be more central midfield and lean less on his talents as an attacking fullback.

 

[FlamingLip]

I don't to want him to go, even if we’re relegated, but I don’t think there’s even a slightest chance that he’ll offer his resignation.

He’s got himself on a decent wedge off the back of his success and has a long contract.

I could be wrong but I get the impression he’s not the sort to forego any financial compensation he’d be due, if we did sack him.

He's earned the contract and any compo. No issue with that. Only thing Wilder has to personally consider is damage limitation to his reputation. He hates criticism, handles it badly and he'd always be associated with this record breaking disaster season.

 

[FMBlade1]

That’s where he’d have to play. Is he any good there in contrast to other players who have played there their entire careers?

He did well in a cameo. ls he ready to play a level higher than he’s ever played in a position he’s not played before?

He might do ok on the right of a 3 in a 5-3-2, 4-3-1-2, or 4-3-3. I think it would be asking a lot for him to be in a 2 where the role would be more central midfield and lean less on his talents as an attacking fullback.

Perhaps the formatting was unclear with the previous post but to be clear, Bogle should play RW with Baldock at RB.

Then play two others in the middle and one on the left, even Max Lowe!

 

[blade67]

1. If we go down (and it is still an "if" despite the defeatist negativity on here)”

Yes, Technically we are not down yet..

...but only in the same way a man falling from the 50th floor of a skyscraper isn’t dead yet as he plummets past floor 21.

Last post-match press conference he criticized the players and absolved himself of any responsibiliteh 'I can't play the game for them'.

Then did his thing which he's done way too much this season of talking up the opposition and how much moneh they have spent.

Taking responsibiliteh isn't just saying it, it's doing something about it and changing your approach, which he's reluctant to do as it proves him wrong (eg by dropping Ramsdale, altering the system, getting new coaches, signing players beyond Dover etc)

He altered the system for the last game. He alters the system in nearly every match during the game. He's trying loads of stuff.

He's struggling for sure, and interviews always look shit when you are losing every week.

He's got the recruitment wrong for sure in the last 12 months, but I'm not sure what he can say at the moment.

 

[blade67]

1. If we go down (and it is still an "if" despite the defeatist negativity on here)”

Yes, Technically we are not down yet..

...but only in the same way a man falling from the 50th floor of a skyscraper isn’t dead yet as he plummets past floor 21.

Not sure why I tagged you in the last post. Shit phone maybe?

 

[FMBlade1]

He altered the system for the last game. He alters the system in nearly every match during the game. He's trying loads of stuff.

He's struggling for sure, and interviews always look shit when you are losing every week.

He's got the recruitment wrong for sure in the last 12 months, but I'm not sure what he can say at the moment.

Very very slightly altered the system last game, after 14 games of failure beforehand.

He changes the system when we go 1-0 down and then we start to play better.

Bogle comes on and puts in a great performance and scores, then he's punished by not getting involved in the next game whilst Norwood gets on the pitch having contributed nothing this season.

I agree that it's hard to face the music and the scrutiny, but this is the big game league.

Throwing your players under a bus made him look like a petulant little child throwing his toys out of the pram, the toys he recruited.

 

[Bladeinleeds]

Very very slightly altered the system last game, after 14 games of failure beforehand.

He changes the system when we go 1-0 down and then we start to play better.

Bogle comes on and puts in a great performance and scores, then he's punished by not getting involved in the next game whilst Norwood gets on the pitch having contributed nothing this season.

I agree that it's hard to face the music and the scrutiny, but this is the big game league.

Throwing your players under a bus made him look like a petulant little child throwing his toys out of the pram, the toys he recruited.

I don’t think he’s totally thrown them under a bus. He’s said they are still giving everything

but they can’t escape all criticism can they? Not one is doing themselves justice performance wise (bash excepted). It’s the players who have to take their chances and not make mistakes all the time.

big moment after big moment have fallen away this season. That’s not all on wilder

 

[FMBlade1]

I don’t think he’s totally thrown them under a bus. He’s said they are still giving everything

but they can’t escape all criticism can they? Not one is doing themselves justice performance wise (bash excepted). It’s the players who have to take their chances and not make mistakes all the time.

big moment after big moment have fallen away this season. That’s not all on wilder

I'm more referring to the post match press conference Leicester away last year



And yes the players are not immune from criticism for not doing the basics, however if they are not good enough it's not their fault! I don't think most of them are good enough, yes we finished 9th last season but our system caught teams out and we were underestimated and an unknown quantity for many.

Ask yourself this, how many of our players would get into any other 19 PL squads, let alone team?

Possibly Egan might get into the Fulham and West Brom side, that's about it!

 

[Davalon]

Good op. I think CW needs to up his game in the same way the players do.
He's suffered in losing some of the gems he found, but his luck in signing new gems has dropped off.
I don't like the respect being given to the opposition post match either. The biggest thing we are missing is the ' fuck em, let's get into em' attitude, and that needs to come from him.

I think that's a real salient point.

In the past he's only really berated the players after a bad performance which has more often than not had a desired effect.

We've also had common sense but also bravado when talking about an upcoming game.

We're now getting a weekly mantra that includes us not being able to compete.

I read today that Burnley have beaten better sides than us according to CW. He goes on to say that our fans don't want spin from him. I agree with him on the latter generally speaking and his straightforward honesty was a breath of fresh air after Clough and Adkins.

I just wonder though if his focus of being straight is now not necessarily helping. I appreciate it's hard to be too bullish in our position but it's been that way since the beginning of the season IMHO.

Some of his interviews have even made me think of Heath or Adams where excuses were being made for losing before the game.

I really want Wilder to stay and succeed but I'm more concerned now about where the downward spiral takes us rather than just relegation itself.

We've gone from huge positivity and forward momentum to exactly the opposite in a short space of time. That isn't always easy to arrest quickly and going down in record breaking embarrassing fashion will be much harder to turn around in the summer than some seem to think IMHO.

Just hope CW and the staff can get enough of an upturn in results in the second half of the season to take us into the summer with confidence that bouncing back is a real possibility.

 

[broomhillblade]

It's quite easy actually:

Verrips
Baldock- Basham-Egan- Stevens
Bogle - Norwood/Rodwell- Lundstram - Osborne/Fleck
Brewster/Burke- Mc Burnie

With maybe McGoldrick at the tip of the diamond as an alternative with a CDM that can drop into a back 5, a role that Rodwell has played before.

And Gareth Bale and plenty of other players started as full backs then to become wingers.

Baldock and Bogle in tandem would work quite well IMHO

Surely the time to get 'experimental' is against Bristol Rovers. Verrips and Bogle could be given a start - and maybe a few others who are not getting many games at the moment.

 

[FMBlade1]

Surely the time to get 'experimental' is against Bristol Rovers. Verrips and Bogle could be given a start - and maybe a few others who are not getting many games at the moment.

Not against that happening but it's value would probably be moot. Even if we won 10-0.

Ramsdale is never going to be dropped no matter what for a PL game as that would show Wilder as wrong in signing him, and clearly Wilder has something against Bogle, goodness knows why.

Edit: Also can't be good for squad harmony that Duffy gets bombed out and Lundstram plays, and that some players get dropped for poor performances but his favourites like Ramsdale don't.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

I'm also fed up of Wilder putting the players under the bus, he's signed every single one of them except Basham.

Bash is best of the lot.....The only one (for me) to be untainted by this shit.

 

[1889]

Not against that happening but it's value would probably be moot. Even if we won 10-0.

Ramsdale is never going to be dropped no matter what for a PL game as that would show Wilder as wrong in signing him, and clearly Wilder has something against Bogle, goodness knows why.

Edit: Also can't be good for squad harmony that Duffy gets bombed out and Lundstram plays, and that some players get dropped for poor performances but his favourites like Ramsdale don't.

I’m not sure Ramsdales his favourite, but ironically he’s ‘undroppable’ because the other keepers aren’t up to the task and consequently he’s the only realistic option?

o

 

[Slugger]

It's the first training session after the Brighton game. CWAK have devised a drill to help develop play in wide areas. Bogle is given a position on the right as a link up with Baldock and 2 strikers. ...

Turns out he's shit! They try the same drill the next day and he's even worse. Keeps getting caught in possession and drifting offside. Poor lad. His confidence looks shot despite his fine 35 minute cameo in the 1st team.

Meanwhile Ollie Norwood is back to his best. Every single fuckin pass is pinging straight to its intended target. He's even getting stuck in and winning crunching tackles. He's back to his best and his attitude looks spot on.

Who do you give game-time to versus Everton?

 

[FMBlade1]

I’m not sure Ramsdales his favourite, but ironically he’s ‘undroppable’ because the other keepers aren’t up to the task and consequently he’s the only realistic option

How do we know Verrips isn't up to the task?



Looks pretty decent here, granted it's a highlights reel but he's never been given a chance.

 

[FMBlade1]

It's the first training session after the Brighton game. CWAK have devised a drill to help develop play in wide areas. Bogle is given a position on the right as a link up with Baldock and 2 strikers. ...

Turns out he's shit! They try the same drill the next day and he's even worse. Keeps getting caught in possession and drifting offside. Poor lad. His confidence looks shot despite his fine 35 minute cameo in the 1st team.

Meanwhile Ollie Norwood is back to his best. Every single fuckin pass is pinging straight to its intended target. He's even getting stuck in and winning crunching tackles. He's back to his best and his attitude looks spot on.

Who do you give game-time to versus Everton?

Is that what happened?

 

[blade67]

Very very slightly altered the system last game, after 14 games of failure beforehand.

He changes the system when we go 1-0 down and then we start to play better.

Bogle comes on and puts in a great performance and scores, then he's punished by not getting involved in the next game whilst Norwood gets on the pitch having contributed nothing this season.

I agree that it's hard to face the music and the scrutiny, but this is the big game league.

Throwing your players under a bus made him look like a petulant little child throwing his toys out of the pram, the toys he recruited.

i think we are watching different games. We often change it prior to conceding. The issue is players not showing enough quality, with or without the ball and no amount of tinkering with the formation is going to fix that.

Wilder is obviously responsible for that, as he signed them and is responsible for their training.

Bogle may be part of the answer. I'd like to see a bit more of him.

 

[Charlieblade]

Whatever happens in any area of the club, Wilder has the influence and the responsibility, for both success and failure.
He may not be responsible for the medical decisions regarding certain protocols, but undoubtedly influenced the decision to play JOC, when medical advice may or may not have been contrary. The same applies to McBurnie and Burke in current circumstances.
Widers influence in every aspect of club management is unlikely to be repeated anywhere in the top echelons of football. It’s an advantage he has due to joining a struggling club, with a parsimonious owner.
Top flight clubs are simply not allowed to work that way in the modern game. So the answer is. Yes Wider has to accept responsibility.
That said, while he is criticized for praise issued to other teams and managers, much of that is genuine, or required by PR.
He is entitled to have a go at players if he feels they have let him, and the team down.
Bottom line is, he is a stubborn bugger, who has over achieved as a manager and, in his influence over the club at all levels. He is unlikely to change his process or his outlook.
Stick or twist. Up to the Prince

 

[FMBlade1]

Whatever happens in any area of the club, Wilder has the influence and the responsibility, for both success and failure.
He may not be responsible for the medical decisions regarding certain protocols, but undoubtedly influenced the decision to play JOC, when medical advice may or may not have been contrary. The same applies to McBurnie and Burke in current circumstances.
Widers influence in every aspect of club management is unlikely to be repeated anywhere in the top echelons of football. It’s an advantage he has due to joining a struggling club, with a parsimonious owner.
Top flight clubs are simply not allowed to work that way in the modern game. So the answer is. Yes Wider has to accept responsibility.
That said, while he is criticized for praise issued to other teams and managers, much of that is genuine, or required by PR.
He is entitled to have a go at players if he feels they have let him, and the team down.
Bottom line is, he is a stubborn bugger, who has over achieved as a manager and, in his influence over the club at all levels. He is unlikely to change his process or his outlook.
Stick or twist. Up to the Prince

Completely agree with this, he has way too much power.

If he is to stay the Prince should clip his wings and curb that, such as setting up a proper international network, blocking all transfers over the value of say £6 million without a committee to sign it off etc. to actually get us a structure of a modern day successful PL football club.

If Wilder doesn't want that and walks so be it, at least that would mean we don't have to pay him compensation.

 

[JJBlade]

I'd prefer Wilder to stay
Our Championship players should be ok next year

I can see us only losing Berge, nobody will want any others, unless the top Championship clubs who pay bigger wages than us come sniffing around.

Hopefully Wilder will get rid of anybody incapable of holding a first team place and get some proper hoofers in so that we are capable of playing some proper Sheffield football.

This seems to be the way he wants to go so he might as well get some big lumbering oafs that are capable of doing it

 

[Sharrow Snuff Mill]

Whatever happens I`m still with CW/AK.

 

[Hull Blade]

2nd season syndrome is a barsix in this league.. Loads of clubs have had a good first season then fail to pick it up in the 2nd season. No need to panic. Go down if must, come back next season as champions, then go again.

 

[FMBlade1]

2nd season syndrome is a barsix in this league.. Loads of clubs have had a good first season then fail to pick it up in the 2nd season. No need to panic. Go down if must, come back next season as champions, then go again.

I don't have any particular issue with going down, it was always a possibility.

What I do have issue with is our utter humiliation of the football club that is going on right now that needs to change.

 

[Slugger]

Is that what happened?

I don't know. It's very possible. The point I was making was that Wilder has a lot more information than we do on which to base team selection.

There's some comments from posters here that are suggesting that Wilder is so stubborn he'd deliberately pick a team with less chance of getting a result in order to prove a point.

If Wilder thinks playing Bogle will give us a better chance of a win today then obviously he'll do it. To suggest otherwise is pure nonsense. Of course we can disagree with him. Personally I'd like to see McGoldrick playing behind a flexible front 2 but I don't see how that is working in training so I have to trust Wilder's judgement.

There's even been a suggestion here that Wilder won't drop Ramsdale because that would be admitting some failure on his part. Does anyone actually believe that if Chris thought we would win with Verrips in goal, he wouldn't try it?? He'd concede points rather than admit Ramsdale needs a rest??

 

[FMBlade1]

I don't know. It's very possible. The point I was making was that Wilder has a lot more information than we do on which to base team selection.

There's some comments from posters here that are suggesting that Wilder is so stubborn he'd deliberately pick a team with less chance of getting a result in order to prove a point.

If Wilder thinks playing Bogle will give us a better chance of a win today then obviously he'll do it. To suggest otherwise is pure nonsense. Of course we can disagree with him. Personally I'd like to see McGoldrick playing behind a flexible front 2 but I don't see how that is working in training so I have to trust Wilder's judgement.

There's even been a suggestion here that Wilder won't drop Ramsdale because that would be admitting some failure on his part. Does anyone actually believe that if Chris thought we would win with Verrips in goal, he wouldn't try it?? He'd concede points rather than admit Ramsdale needs a rest??

Ok ok ok I admit some of what I said was tongue in cheek

With that said I think Wilder is very very stubborn and it would take Ramsdale deliberately scoring 3 own goals each game for him to be finally dropped near the end of the season

 

[Bennyand the Blades]

Been a paying Blades supporter since 1957 , Think that's around 63 years and in that time including this season we've spent 17 seasons in the top tier.
Four managers have taken us this far, John Harris 10 seasons, Bassett 4, Warnock 1, and this is Chis Wilders 2nd, the only one so far to have taken us back up again was John Harris and the only one to leave the club straight after relegation was Mr Warnock, and we all know what happened after that .
CW|AK have done wonders for us up to this one extraordinary season so for me no matter what division we're in next season I'll gladly stick with the management team we all know,

 

[N20 Blade]

5. Wilder has not suddenly gone from being one of the finest managers in the country to one of the worse. The team are going through a bad period. Unless limitless money was going to be thrown into the pot, it was always going to happen. You can see how much the situation is hurting Wilder and I would imagine he's working his nuts off trying to fix things. This is more than just another job to him. Those of us who have followed the team over decades can remember quite a few clowns running things who probably didn't lose too much sleep when things weren't going well. Be careful what you wish for. Wilder is undoubtedly one of the finest mangers in our history. Losing him now would be a big mistake.

He’s certainly been one of our most successful post war managers but are we sure he’s one of the finest managers in the country? I recall Paul Lambert winning back to back promotions with Norwich, I remember Phil Brown having a great season with Hull in the PL, Megson working miracles at West Brom, Pardew looking great at Reading, Adkins winning back to back promotions with Southampton, at the time they all looked great up and coming managers. It’s possible that Wilder is one of those, that in five years he’s trying to get Rotherham out of L1 and people are saying ‘remember when he was smashing it with the Blades, seems a long time ago now’. I’m not saying he is, just that it’s possible.

For every Sean Dyche successville, there are plenty of hooverville failures, like the ones you have listed, and others too (Burley, Clement, Monk, Laudrup, Coyle, Wagner,etc.). We talk about our next manager being crucial, well Wilder's next club is even more pivotal for him. Which is why WBA would be a good move, no major surgery required, popular replacement for an unpopular manager in BS and a great record at that level. It would though, leave a bitter taste in my mouth if that's what he chooses.

 

[JOEYDEE]

CW just bailed,doesn't want a relegation on his CV.
Surely he could've seen out the last nine or ten games with us ?
He could've left in the summer with his head held high..leaves a nasty taste somehow .

 

[JJ Sefton]

CW just bailed,doesn't want a relegation on his CV.
Surely he could've seen out the last nine or ten games with us ?
He could've left in the summer with his head held high..leaves a nasty taste somehow .

I don’t get this argument. Nobody hiring a manager is going to seriously say “Impressive, he’s never taken a team to relegation” given the state we were in when he left. If they do they’re probably too stupid to hire him in the first place.