The 92 point myth

[Tony_Kaufman]

All I've read pretty much everywhere since it was announced that Wilder has gone/was going is that the owners are mad to sack him because he got us to 92 points last season. The new manager allegedly won't get us to 92 points again as only Wilder could achieve this.

I'm going to call b/s on this myth.

We were inconsistent all season and (play offs aside), we only put in a decent performance over 90 minutes in a handful of matches. In the remainder we were either good half/bad half or poor altogther. We ground out results and relied heavily on luck. It wasn't good management or tactical nuance that won a lot of these games, it was luck. That luck ran out towards the end of the season.

In the last ten games of the season we won four, drew two and lost four. We only won two of our last seven league matches.

Wilder showed no sign of changing his methods.

To say we won't get 92 points again is arguably accurate as the odds are that Wilder himself wouldn't get 92 points again. There is no way that we could play another entire season again in this manner and expect to fluke our way to results through luck again. It's a miracle that we got that amount playing the way we did last season.

"But Wilder would change the way we play next season."

Really? Then why didn't he last season?

"He didn't have the players he needed to suit his tactics."

Then change the tactics to suit what you have and he had January to address this where he was backed by the owners, but he didn't.

I'm sick to death of reading about the 92 points without people acknowledging the poor form at the end of the season and the poor performances all season.

I can handle not getting to 92 points again next season if it means no more disjointed, inconsistent performances and no more square pegs in round holes. We have a far better chance of going up and staying up by playing well than we do by grinding out undeserved results playing crap football with central midfielders and strikers on the wings.

Other fans will only see the final league table and think we're mad. They didn't watch the crap football that we had to watch to get there. Just like some of our fans are judging Selles on results only. They don't tell the whole story and don't entirely define a manager.

Wilder wasn't "sacked" because he didn't get us promoted. He was "sacked" because of everything else.

If you're going to keep quoting 92 points then at least be honest and acknowledge how we got to 92 points and the poor performances and negative tactics throughout the season getting there that continued all the way to the last game of the season.

 

[nopigfansintown]

It's fact not myth. The likelihood is with another window and with worse sides coming down we'd have bettered that.

What next for the unhinged Wilder haters: "the two promotions and 9th place Prem season fantasy".

It seems to me that the Wilder hater cult are getting their excuses in early if it doesn't go well next season by undermining Wilder's achievements last season.

 

[WayneAllison]

We got 92 points by variance

It was a freak that we got that many

 

[SwitchBLADE Smiles]

Regardless of what anyone thought of the performances, you don’t get 92 points in a season by luck. We got them by being one of the most effectives sides in the division - it wasn’t pretty, but it secured us our biggest points tally I think we’ve ever had in this division. That absolutely deserves recognition.

It’s perfectly reasonable for folk to question the decision to allow Wilder to leave after the season we’ve just had. Personally, I’m doubtful Selles will better last season but I’m always willing to get behind a new regime and am excited to see where we go.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

We won 92 points but we should have got more.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

It's fact not myth. The likelihood is with another window and with worse sides coming down we'd have bettered that.

What next for the unhinged Wilder haters: "the two promotions and 9th place Prem season fantasy".

It sounds to me that the Wilder hater cult are getting their excuses in early if it doesn't go well next season by undermining Wilder's achievements last season.

I'm was referring to how we got the 92 points and the league table doesn't tell that story.

I'm not a Wilder hater by any means but agree that he needed to go, but I'm also not so biased and blinkered to see that he was stuck in his ways and unwilling to change.

I'm not so biased and blinkered to see that his record against the top teams was poor and that in scraping results all season we'd have absolutely zero chance of staying up if he did get us up.

Maybe keeping Wilder may well have ended with us getting promotion, but you'll struggle to convince me that he is the man who could then keep us up, especially when the main argument is what happened 6 years ago and not based on anything current. I don't care what he did for us in the past. He left and my judgement of him started fresh when he came back the second time. I saw nothing to convince me that he is capable of keeping us in the Premier League.

The main cult at the moment are the ones who refuse to acknowledge that he had his faults. The "Wilder cult" are the ones who cried to sleep last night after he left and are getting their excuses in about why Selles is not the man. The Wilder cult can't see the bigger picture of what the owners want, as they only care about results. The poor performances don't matter to them, just the results, begging the question why bother going to matches then? If you're not bothered about how we play and just the results, stay at home and check the result at full time.

The same Wilder cult are so narrow minded that they can't see that the three players signed through AI data analysis are future potential and not first team players for next season. They talk like Siri is going to sign all players this summer. They have been the most closed minded of all the fans, not the "Wilder haters."

The fact our fans are so divided on this compared to when Wilder first arrived when everyone was behind him speaks volumes.

 

[themaninblack]

We won 92 points on the pitch last season and got to the playoff final.
The owners have improved us by sacking off that management team and installing a new one. If the new team does better than the old team then the change will be a success, if not, it will be a failure with long term consequences. So, do you feel lucky?

 

[Working Class Hero]

He did change the way we play, for the last 6 games. We went with two up top and looked much better, more attacking and much more balanced.

It's all irrelevant now, but to look at it another way, we won 3 and drew 1 of our last 5 games. 4 of those games were against teams that finished in the top 7 and were all playing for promotion, yet we achieved the same 2 points per game which is promotion form in the vast majority of seasons.

From that perspective we finished very strongly, and had we carried that in to next season it might have been much better?

 

[s20Blade]

He did change the way we play, for the last 6 games. We went with two up top and looked much better, more attacking and much more balanced.

It's all irrelevant now, but to look at it another way, we won 3 and drew 1 of our last 5 games. 4 of those games were against teams that finished in the top 7 and were all playing for promotion, yet we achieved the same 2 points per game which is promotion form in the vast majority of seasons.

From that perspective we finished very strongly, and had we carried that in to next season it might have been much better?

After wasting high-wage players like BBD, JRS and Holding I very much doubt it would have got better with a lesser budget.

 

[Railway Blade]

I'm assuming this is a fishing expedition as I cant see the point in trawling through the bones of last season when a decision has been made already off the back of it.

I shall swiftly walk past and concentrate on the new man and see what the transfer window and pre season brings

 

[Nick Jansky]

Has this club’s fanbase ever been more divided than it is today? This was predicted when Wilder was brought back, that’s when the schism started and it was blindingly obvious that it would eventually lead to this. A foolish, foolish move by the Prince.

But we are where we are and, at some point we are all going to have to come back together and become, once more, united. That will be the best thing for the club.

I don’t know when that’s going to happen. I expect the recriminations to continue to fly from both sides for a while yet. But I’m hopeful that it won’t take too long for the dust to settle, a bit of clearer thinking to emerge and the process of coming back together to begin.

Wilder has gone, and people need to begin to get over that at some stage, as hard as some will find it. Today, what matters most is the future. And let’s not forget that Selles will also go at some point because that’s what always happens. The one constant is Sheffield United and I hope that come the opening day of the season the vast majority of us will get behind the team regardless.

It’s a new dawn, starting today. We have no idea what it’s going to look like, but people have the choice to embrace it and move forwards or to carry on fighting yesterday’s fights. I know which one will ultimately be best for the club.

UTB

 

[Roygbiv]

He was sacked because we regressed quite heavily from the moment the new owners came in despite spending more money than anyone else in January. I don't think it's any deeper than that despite all the talk.

 

[Roygbiv]

Has this club’s fanbase ever been more divided than it is today? This was predicted when Wilder was brought back, that’s when the schism started and it was blindingly obvious that it would eventually lead to this. A foolish, foolish move by the Prince.

But we are where we are and, at some point we are all going to have to come back together and become, once more, united. That will be the best thing for the club.

I don’t know when that’s going to happen. I expect the recriminations to continue to fly from both sides for a while yet. But I’m hopeful that it won’t take too long for the dust to settle, a bit of clearer thinking to emerge and the process of coming back together to begin.

Wilder has gone, and people need to begin to get over that at some stage, as hard as some will find it. Today, what matters most is the future. And let’s not forget that Selles will also go at some point because that’s what always happens. The one constant is Sheffield United and I hope that come the opening day of the season the vast majority of us will get behind the team regardless.

It’s a new dawn, starting today. We have no idea what it’s going to look like, but people have the choice to embrace it and move forwards or to carry on fighting yesterday’s fights. I know which one will ultimately be best for the club.

UTB

You have to give people time to grieve. A fair amount of the fanbase felt a truly special connection with Wilder and feel that has been unnecessarily taken away from them. I'll be surprised if things are still this raw in August. Obviously you'll still get people who won't trust the board because they got rid of Wilder but that happened with The Prince and it didn't effect us.

In a few weeks people will have calmed down but you need to give it time. I imagine Selles will get a great reception at the first home game as despite how it seems at times, 99% of fans want him to do well and the 1% don't simply because they think it means there is a chance that Wilder might come back

 

[Bill puntin]

It's fact not myth. The likelihood is with another window and with worse sides coming down we'd have bettered that.

What next for the unhinged Wilder haters: "the two promotions and 9th place Prem season fantasy".

It seems to me that the Wilder hater cult are getting their excuses in early if it doesn't go well next season by undermining Wilder's achievements last season.

Whatever we think of Wilder we have to except hes gone now and probably wont ever vome back, so we move on and keep supporting the blades, wilder will move on in his next job and do his best to beat us so weve got ti get behind our new man now.

 

[Nick Jansky]

He was sacked because we regressed quite heavily from the moment the new owners came in despite spending more money than anyone else in January. I don't think it's any deeper than that despite all the talk.

I’m not sure the why even matters at this stage. The decision has been taken and that’s it..

 

[AWetFlannel]

All I've read pretty much everywhere since it was announced that Wilder has gone/was going is that the owners are mad to sack him because he got us to 92 points last season. The new manager allegedly won't get us to 92 points again as only Wilder could achieve this.

I'm going to call b/s on this myth.

We were inconsistent all season and (play offs aside), we only put in a decent performance over 90 minutes in a handful of matches. In the remainder we were either good half/bad half or poor altogther. We ground out results and relied heavily on luck. It wasn't good management or tactical nuance that won a lot of these games, it was luck. That luck ran out towards the end of the season.

In the last ten games of the season we won four, drew two and lost four. We only won two of our last seven league matches.

Wilder showed no sign of changing his methods.

To say we won't get 92 points again is arguably accurate as the odds are that Wilder himself wouldn't get 92 points again. There is no way that we could play another entire season again in this manner and expect to fluke our way to results through luck again. It's a miracle that we got that amount playing the way we did last season.

"But Wilder would change the way we play next season."

Really? Then why didn't he last season?

"He didn't have the players he needed to suit his tactics."

Then change the tactics to suit what you have and he had January to address this where he was backed by the owners, but he didn't.

I'm sick to death of reading about the 92 points without people acknowledging the poor form at the end of the season and the poor performances all season.

I can handle not getting to 92 points again next season if it means no more disjointed, inconsistent performances and no more square pegs in round holes. We have a far better chance of going up and staying up by playing well than we do by grinding out undeserved results playing crap football with central midfielders and strikers on the wings.

Other fans will only see the final league table and think we're mad. They didn't watch the crap football that we had to watch to get there. Just like some of our fans are judging Selles on results only. They don't tell the whole story and don't entirely define a manager.

Wilder wasn't "sacked" because he didn't get us promoted. He was "sacked" because of everything else.

If you're going to keep quoting 92 points then at least be honest and acknowledge how we got to 92 points and the poor performances and negative tactics throughout the season getting there that continued all the way to the last game of the season.

Absolutely embarrassing.

 

[ColinHill]

After wasting high-wage players like BBD, JRS and Holding I very much doubt it would have got better with a lesser budget.

Harsh to say wages were wasted. BBD didnt look half the player he did when in the prem. JRS got injured plenty and was inconsistent. Brooks never stepped up (until near the end) to replace him. JRS was one of those where its a real shame he didnt kick on after a decent start, as he could have made a big difference but if i remember right he was out for a 2/3 months. Holding was brought in as cover and doubt we'll have piad much more in wages than we were for Souttar.

Overall, i think Wilder's sacking is very harsh, and a real shame. I dont buy the negative football aspect, bar leeds all the teams were playing exactly the same type of football, we just had better players than most and therefore tended to control it. Not my preferred style, but that's how it is, football is very robotic these days and the return of 442 will help change that.

I doubt many managers would keep united or other promoted teams up, the gap is huge, when spurs are the next worst team in the Prem they've won the europa league for gods sake! Million miles in front of promoted team.

Im not that short sighted that it has to be Wilder or nothing, there's always better out there, i just dont see (admittedly not knowing masses) that Selles is better. He's done well with teams that are struggling and got them safe etc and worked in tough environments, but United are not in that place at the minute so its a huge test for Selles in taking on a team that the expectation is promotion, and lets be honest, he has to achieve that otherwise its a gamble that's not paid off. Last year of parachute payments, so got to make it count otherwise we are in the for a few tough years.

The spin of he (selles) develops young players is nice, but coming off the back of Wilder introducing and playing (some of it out of necessity) Arblaster, Brooks, Peck, Seriki, (gilchrist on loan), Burrows as one of his bigger signings shows he could do it too.

Time will tell, and RS deserves some support

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

Absolutely embarrassing.

Why?

 

[AWetFlannel]

Why?

It's a completely unnecessary post full of complete nonsense. We were not inconsistent and we did change the way we played multiple times. Saying the performances were poor and we got lucky is just hilarious, sounds like a pig.

You can have all the subjective stuff about not liking the style and not liking Wilder, but trying to debunk the "myth" that we had a good season is just pathetic, particularly now he's gone.

 

[nopigfansintown]

I'm was referring to how we got the 92 points and the league table doesn't tell that story.

I'm not a Wilder hater by any means but agree that he needed to go, but I'm also not so biased and blinkered to see that he was stuck in his ways and unwilling to change.

I'm not so biased and blinkered to see that his record against the top teams was poor and that in scraping results all season we'd have absolutely zero chance of staying up if he did get us up.

Maybe keeping Wilder may well have ended with us getting promotion, but you'll struggle to convince me that he is the man who could then keep us up, especially when the main argument is what happened 6 years ago and not based on anything current. I don't care what he did for us in the past. He left and my judgement of him started fresh when he came back the second time. I saw nothing to convince me that he is capable of keeping us in the Premier League.

The main cult at the moment are the ones who refuse to acknowledge that he had his faults. The "Wilder cult" are the ones who cried to sleep last night after he left and are getting their excuses in about why Selles is not the man. The Wilder cult can't see the bigger picture of what the owners want, as they only care about results. The poor performances don't matter to them, just the results, begging the question why bother going to matches then? If you're not bothered about how we play and just the results, stay at home and check the result at full time.

The same Wilder cult are so narrow minded that they can't see that the three players signed through AI data analysis are future potential and not first team players for next season. They talk like Siri is going to sign all players this summer. They have been the most closed minded of all the fans, not the "Wilder haters."

The fact our fans are so divided on this compared to when Wilder first arrived when everyone was behind him speaks volumes.

I totally disagree. Your failure to mention the pre season boardroom crap, the chronically understaffed squad (pre Jan signings) and the remarkable achievement to even be in an automatic race pre January signings shows (to put it nicely) a huge lack of balance in your missive. Some would call it "Wilder hater adjacent" or somewhat symptomatic of that cult. I consider us mid rebuild now so to be in that position before the loans was a great achievement.

You say Wilder couldn't keep us up, yet he's the only manager since Dyche to keep a team up without an incredible budget. The new guy has none of the above on his CV which you haven't pointed out. I have no opinion on Selles but for those that do have a negative take it's only right for me to correct your aspersion: facts in this case are not excuses.

You've made an assumption that all fans think the performances were bad. I think the vast majority of performances were very good. We won most games and even those with narrow scorelines we saw out easily. I thought we'd build on that and win more games even more easily with more building. I enjoyed going to the games last season. It was the strident anti Wilder cult that made it a drag, not the football.

When a manager is sacked it's very rare for a large proportion (I'd say majority) to be in favour of retaining the outgoing manager. THAT speaks volumes

 

[GeorgeDonis1889]

Why?

Might be because its the same boring twaddle you must have posted 50 times since these rumours began. You've made your points over and over. You've made them countless times now. It's so boring and weird how much you're enjoying this.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

It's a completely unnecessary post full of complete nonsense. We were not inconsistent and we did change the way we played multiple times. Saying the performances were poor and we got lucky is just hilarious, sounds like a pig.

You can have all the subjective stuff about not liking the style and not liking Wilder, but trying to debunk the "myth" that we had a good season is just pathetic, particularly now he's gone.

You think we were consistent last season and were the better team in most games? Really?

 

[LBA_Blade]

The disappointing thing was how our wheels fell off in the last 7 regular games. We rode our luck early on in the 1st play off game, if that shot had not hit the bar from Bristol City but went in, it could have been a different story. Bizarrely we had the opportunity to win the league and not get a single point from either Leeds or Burnley, wins against Oxford, Plymouth, Millwall and Blackburn would have seen us to 101 points. All 4 of those fixtures if you truly have Champions ability should have been won. 2 at home, 2 away too.

 

[AWetFlannel]

You think we were consistent last season and were the better team in most games? Really?

We were remarkably consistent last season, both in our level of performance and our results, hence the 92 points.

We were obviously the better team in most games because we won most games. We played for fine margins and consistently found ourselves on the good side of them.

 

[GrunkyPeep]

We played for fine margins and consistently found ourselves on the good side of them.

This isn't a sustainable strategy and got found out in the 2nd half of the season, and in the play-off final.

Trying to hold onto a lead with the defence we had in the 2nd half of the season, on reflection, is a bit of a mental strategy.

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

He was sacked because we regressed quite heavily from the moment the new owners came in despite spending more money than anyone else in January. I don't think it's any deeper than that despite all the talk.

I'm actually quite relieved we're not being linked with the usual names again. Dunne, Darling, Jojo Kenny, McBurnie, Mepham… the list goes on. People on X saying “look what we’ve missed out on” clearly aren’t aiming very high. These are just the same type of players we always get, solid Championship-level options, but there’s no spark, no real creativity or excitement. As Leeds showed last season, you need more than reliable squad fillers if you're serious about competing. It's time to think better

 

[AWetFlannel]

This isn't a sustainable strategy and got found out in the 2nd half of the season, and in the play-off final.

Trying to hold onto a lead with the defence we had in the 2nd half of the season, on reflection, is a bit of a mental strategy.

Just not true, sorry. Chelsea under Mourinho, Burnley under Parker this season? It was sustainable for us and delivered us a large points total. Plenty of teams are successful playing for fine margins.

 

[GrunkyPeep]

Just not true, sorry. Chelsea under Mourinho, Burnley under Parker this season? It was sustainable for us and delivered us a large points total. Plenty of teams are successful playing for fine margins.

With Souttar, yes, absolutely.

With Anel and JLT, no, not at all.

You have to fit your tactic to your players and playing a high-risk strategy with mentally weak players will mean you don't achieve your targets. And we didn't.

Every person on this board could point out what the issue would be with trying to protect a lead with Anel and JLT, rather than go get another goal.

Why didn't we look to mitigate the extremely obvious flaw in our team?

 

[robbiez666]

It's fact not myth. The likelihood is with another window and with worse sides coming down we'd have bettered that.

What next for the unhinged Wilder haters: "the two promotions and 9th place Prem season fantasy".

It seems to me that the Wilder hater cult are getting their excuses in early if it doesn't go well next season by undermining Wilder's achievements last season.

I agree that Wilder did indeed get 92 points and deserves huge credit for that.

It is however highly unlikely he would have bettered that this season given our points total for the second half of last season.

 

[Working Class Hero]

After wasting high-wage players like BBD, JRS and Holding I very much doubt it would have got better with a lesser budget.

On the flip side, those three would be very easy to improve on, even without a high budget.