So, what has gone wrong?

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Sportbilly said:
Taking it to the extreme, some of the old style managers of the past would say that the more times the ball was in the penalty if area the more chances, and in theory more goals.

I'm not suggesting kick and rush football, but perhaps there is some logic in what Shearer has said. Generally you aren't scoring goals 35 yards plus from the opponents goal.
Click to expand...
Of course but there are many ways to score that don’t involve crossing. We Scored lots of different types of goals last year.
 

Whatever our thoughts about the strikers we've signed. I'm sure most of us would agree they would have performed better/scored more in any other current PL team including the newly promoted teams.
 
Good read that, I also showed it to the missus who laughs at me for spending too much time reading and debating on here. Said some people put far more effort into it than me! 😂
 
The difference quite simply is............

1. Hendo and JOC between them would have saved us at least 8 goals so far. For example, yesterday, Hendo tips the first one past the post and may even pull off a worldy for the second. JOC gets his head in on set pieces whereas Ampadu is very week against a bigger man. How many goals have we conceded from set pieces this season already?

2. A fitter and more confident Moose would have got us maybe 3 or 4 goals.

3. A motivated Lundstram, Fleck and Norwood would have created far more chances and chipped in themselves with a few goals.

That's just 3 differences, but there are maybe 12 points more there. Ok, we're still in the smelly stuff, but in with a fighting chance.
 
Personally I don't think the "system" got found out. We just don't play it anymore. The overloads are easily defended agaisnt if it only comes down one side. What gets me is we never even attempted to continue down the left without JOC. We didn't give it a go and then went "ah well that didn't work". Instructions seem to have been to ignore the left side of the pitch all together.

We have asked alot more of the midfield this season to counter this and they simply aren't up to it. Add to that players like Stevens and fleck are confidence players and you have what we have now.
 
CentralQuay said:
But you're willing to believe that their colossal improvement for 12 months was 'their level'.
Click to expand...
They were playing at a higher level during the promotion season as well.
I suspect the truth lies somewhere between last season and this
 
Thanks Pommpey. Good analysis.
But to add to it a little bit. Our midfield last season were more on the front foot in terms of creating chances. When we overloaded on the left or right. Fleck and Lundstram were running in support and quite often became an option to pass to. Also they both arrived at the box when the ball was on the far side. The best of this was seem when we counter attacked swiftly. Now due to opposition sussing us out and our midfielders not making those supporting runs in time we look very ponderous and limited in our build up play.
 
pommpey said:
Let's have a look at what we've done, what we do and what we do wrong now. I've taken the time to draw some diagrams - they aren't 'official' or anything to do with the club, simply a 'My take ... ' supplementary, based on my observations. To that end, if you disagree, fine. But if you respond like a cunt, be prepared to be treat like a cunt. This subject is about Sheffield United and their failings this season, not me or my moniker at the end of each post.

Firstly, the expected, idealised Wilder line up. It's been like this for four or five seasons now, just swapping out player for player as transfers have allowed. It has to be said that if Wilder could still play and rely on the Div One winning side with some additions like JOC, he'd probably play it next match. No one transferred in since we have come up to the PL has effectively concreted their name into key positions in his 5-3-2.

View attachment 102033

So with a 'preferred' 5-3-2, 2020-21 (with JOC injured for the rest of the season but with Berge) it looks a little like this, when facing a Leicester/Everton type 3-4-3. This is making assumptions that Norwood and Fleck are playing okay and Stevens is in his preferred role of LWB, and Didsy and McPub up front.

Our idealised attacking formation and strategy is to overload the flanks and exploit numerical advantage, confusing defences and committing teams into areas of unfamiliarity. In short, making your game unpredictable and exploiting space (which my erstwhile, venerable footballing coach told me was two essential elements of successful football. If you go by first principles, he is bang on the fucking nose with both.

View attachment 102037

I've got Stevens in his advanced role here (thought it could be JOC or Robinson) supported by Fleck and advancing players for outside the box. Teams used to find this quick bomb up the wing so difficult to deal with, especially as there were loads of passing options and permutations, including hitting either McPub on the near stick, Didsy for second ball or an advancing Baldock on the far stick. Defending teams needed to be either well disciplined to not ball watch or simply prevent our players giving the ball carrier options to pass and move. This was 'either wing' so up this near side Baldock, Basham and Lundstram/Berge would be just as active and dynamic and we scored many goals and chances from these moves. Hardly nothing came from the centre of the park, when you think about it. It did ... think about it ... rely on the wide players getting their foot around the ball and sending in a decent cross, low and pacey, mid-height to nick off someone or seven to eight foot off the grass for someone to climb and nod in.

View attachment 102038

This season, it's different. Teams now deploy a far better understanding of our threat and move four players across the pitch to hem us into that affected touchline and either move the threat up or back down toward our goal, back to Ramsdale or up the other flank where we get the same treatment. From what I observe, the four 'pressers' cut off passing lanes and prevent our players advancing completely. We can't connect, we can't exploit space and our strategy becomes predictable. Because we can't advance, McPub and Didsy are pulled toward the ball to create options and overload and the threat in the box is now devoid. The ball at the feet of a striker outside the box is not a chance. Once opposing teams have us pinned into the areas shown by the dotted lines - the Dead Zone - Sheffield United are themselves dead. Once also we are there and being pressed, we lack the confidence to hang onto the ball and eventually either fuck it up into touch or lose the initiative and surrender possession. So many times we have done this this season.

View attachment 102040

So now we are reeling back. I have shown this as though we have attacked on this near flank through Baldock, Basham and Berge but for the other flank see Robinson, Stevens and Fleck. Our midfield does one thing and one thing only. It forms a three man line across the pitch. So many goals have been given away like this, including the second one on Saturday. This three man line is neither quick nor dynamic. It just 'lines up' and backpedals with space opening up to the opposing midfield. No-one goes out to challenge, tackle or move the ball carrier wide (or backwards) - or even win the fucking ball back. It's just 'full retreat', so that the advanced defenders can get behind and defend. As seen, the passing lanes are wide open (because the midfield is overwhelmed) and the initiative is firmly theirs to fuck up. Watch how Man City deal with this change over in possession and how we do it. Manchester United's third goal was almost entirely this movement. We lost it on the far flank traying to attack, ten seconds later is was under Ramsdale's body. The midfield - outnumbered and out flanked - were completely useless.

View attachment 102041

Whilst defending, we are static and don't challenge the opposition. We either have to rely on Didsy coming deep to do the spadework and either gain possession or retain possession and we simply don't move about enough or anticipate better to cut out passing lanes and opportunities. Although Basham put in what some consider a crap header for the Everton goal (DCL was right behind hi and he was at full stretch to stop it going over him and landing at DCLs feet) we failed to jockey key players and simply make it difficult for the likes of Siggurdsson to one two and get into a scoring opportunity. Yes, Norwood. Once again I am looking at you. He was in this position for their goal. received a return pass and Norwood simply ran alongside him. He's good at that is Norwood. Very good.

Eventually our midfield plays so deep, we morph into an 8-2 system

View attachment 102044

where we are sat so retracted the midfield practically merges with the back five and the opposition midfield has free rein to pass across and back our central and final third with impunity. This becomes the 'it's only a matter of time before they score' system, because they've got so many opportunities to pass and cross (Southampton is a good example) and so much space in front of goal to one-two and be faced with Ramsdale. And, our front two might as well just fuck off for a bath. Didsy becomes our only outlet if we manage to regain possession and then only with a mighty hoof out to the flanks, and usually when we've endured this fucking nightmare for any length of time, the midfield is so shit scared to take the ball out that our back three or goalkeeper just boots it onto McPub's swede. And because he has no players round him for the second ball, it goes to their players and they are back up the pitch again and pinning us into the 8-2 around our box.

That is where I feel we are going wrong. Our play is too predictable, our midfield is weak and outnumbered and in defence we are too submissive.

Does this chime with anyone? Anyone agree, or see anything different? Anyone have any ideas how to change this? What would you do?

pommpey
Click to expand...

Loss of O’Connell
Midfield terrible
Gk not very good

if I had to pick a team

Gk?
?
Def c Basham
Def c Egan
Def c ?

WBR ?
WBL ?

MCl ?
MCc Berge
MCr ?

FL McGoldrick / McBurnie
FR Brewster/ Moussett

Don’t look great
 
CentralQuay said:
Lets not pretend scoring 39 goals in 38 games is evidence of being good going forward last year.
Click to expand...
Correct. But we scored different goals. Like the one lunny passed down the side to mousse against Everton away or quick fire break goals like against Burnley. I don’t expect hundreds of goals but at least 1 a game
 
Swannyblade said:
They were playing at a higher level during the promotion season as well.
I suspect the truth lies somewhere between last season and this
Click to expand...

Is that what you genuinely believe from what you're seeing, or what is easier to believe?

Going forward the side was just as poor as last season.
Defensively, last season was a lot lot better.

Personally I think everyone is now seeing just how many players in this squad are simply not good enough for this level, unless in a fully confident, well organised structure that is fully benefitting from the momentum of promotion.


Wilder has got the absolute maximum of the players to get out of the championship, and the reality is, he needs significantly more time, because of the lack of funds available, to progress the club into a PL one.
This Club has spent 6 of the last 9 years in League 1, and it shows.
 

Pedro Verde said:
I think we all know whats gone wrong its not rocket science
1 - A big drop off in players form not only one player but seven or eight
2 - PL teams have eventually got used to how we play along with No 1 makes it very very difficult
3 - Injury to JOC is a huge loss not only defensively but to the way we play
4 - No fans in grounds
5 - The players brought in have been dissapointing in their performances but have not been helped
by No 1 the team not functioning as last season
6 - We should be able to alter tactics / formation which we sometimes do in games but the players up until lockdown were very comfortable in the preferred system
Click to expand...
Seems to be almost some sort of rocket science to you, at least. Let me help:

”1 - A big drop off in players form not only one player but seven or eight”
This many players losing their form all of a sudden can’t be anything else than the gaffer’s fault.

”2 - PL teams have eventually got used to how we play along with No 1 makes it very very difficult”
The gaffer is the one responsible to deal with this.

”3 - Injury to JOC is a huge loss not only defensively but to the way we play”
Gaffer knew JOC was injured, still played him, and didn’t bring in anyone to cover the position whilst spunking out tens of millions on s*it.

”4 - No fans in grounds”
Most of the other teams haven’t had fans on the grounds, either.

”5 - The players brought in have been dissapointing in their performances but have not been helped
by No 1 the team not functioning as last season”
The players brought in were brought in by the gaffer, who smilingly said we had had the best transfer windown ever.

”6 - We should be able to alter tactics / formation which we sometimes do in games but the players up until lockdown were very comfortable in the preferred system”
This is not about ”us” or the players, it's all about the gaffer.
 
Cheers pommpey, a nice little shake down for those of us who just watch 22 blokes running up and down and trying to score goals. I'm probably not the only one but I'm tactically inept when it comes to the sport, I just like to watch it without trying to dissecting it and then make sense of it afterwards.
 
pommpey said:
Let's have a look at what we've done, what we do and what we do wrong now. I've taken the time to draw some diagrams - they aren't 'official' or anything to do with the club, simply a 'My take ... ' supplementary, based on my observations. To that end, if you disagree, fine. But if you respond like a cunt, be prepared to be treat like a cunt. This subject is about Sheffield United and their failings this season, not me or my moniker at the end of each post.

Firstly, the expected, idealised Wilder line up. It's been like this for four or five seasons now, just swapping out player for player as transfers have allowed. It has to be said that if Wilder could still play and rely on the Div One winning side with some additions like JOC, he'd probably play it next match. No one transferred in since we have come up to the PL has effectively concreted their name into key positions in his 5-3-2.

View attachment 102033

So with a 'preferred' 5-3-2, 2020-21 (with JOC injured for the rest of the season but with Berge) it looks a little like this, when facing a Leicester/Everton type 3-4-3. This is making assumptions that Norwood and Fleck are playing okay and Stevens is in his preferred role of LWB, and Didsy and McPub up front.

Our idealised attacking formation and strategy is to overload the flanks and exploit numerical advantage, confusing defences and committing teams into areas of unfamiliarity. In short, making your game unpredictable and exploiting space (which my erstwhile, venerable footballing coach told me was two essential elements of successful football. If you go by first principles, he is bang on the fucking nose with both.

View attachment 102037

I've got Stevens in his advanced role here (thought it could be JOC or Robinson) supported by Fleck and advancing players for outside the box. Teams used to find this quick bomb up the wing so difficult to deal with, especially as there were loads of passing options and permutations, including hitting either McPub on the near stick, Didsy for second ball or an advancing Baldock on the far stick. Defending teams needed to be either well disciplined to not ball watch or simply prevent our players giving the ball carrier options to pass and move. This was 'either wing' so up this near side Baldock, Basham and Lundstram/Berge would be just as active and dynamic and we scored many goals and chances from these moves. Hardly nothing came from the centre of the park, when you think about it. It did ... think about it ... rely on the wide players getting their foot around the ball and sending in a decent cross, low and pacey, mid-height to nick off someone or seven to eight foot off the grass for someone to climb and nod in.

View attachment 102038

This season, it's different. Teams now deploy a far better understanding of our threat and move four players across the pitch to hem us into that affected touchline and either move the threat up or back down toward our goal, back to Ramsdale or up the other flank where we get the same treatment. From what I observe, the four 'pressers' cut off passing lanes and prevent our players advancing completely. We can't connect, we can't exploit space and our strategy becomes predictable. Because we can't advance, McPub and Didsy are pulled toward the ball to create options and overload and the threat in the box is now devoid. The ball at the feet of a striker outside the box is not a chance. Once opposing teams have us pinned into the areas shown by the dotted lines - the Dead Zone - Sheffield United are themselves dead. Once also we are there and being pressed, we lack the confidence to hang onto the ball and eventually either fuck it up into touch or lose the initiative and surrender possession. So many times we have done this this season.

View attachment 102040

So now we are reeling back. I have shown this as though we have attacked on this near flank through Baldock, Basham and Berge but for the other flank see Robinson, Stevens and Fleck. Our midfield does one thing and one thing only. It forms a three man line across the pitch. So many goals have been given away like this, including the second one on Saturday. This three man line is neither quick nor dynamic. It just 'lines up' and backpedals with space opening up to the opposing midfield. No-one goes out to challenge, tackle or move the ball carrier wide (or backwards) - or even win the fucking ball back. It's just 'full retreat', so that the advanced defenders can get behind and defend. As seen, the passing lanes are wide open (because the midfield is overwhelmed) and the initiative is firmly theirs to fuck up. Watch how Man City deal with this change over in possession and how we do it. Manchester United's third goal was almost entirely this movement. We lost it on the far flank traying to attack, ten seconds later is was under Ramsdale's body. The midfield - outnumbered and out flanked - were completely useless.

View attachment 102041

Whilst defending, we are static and don't challenge the opposition. We either have to rely on Didsy coming deep to do the spadework and either gain possession or retain possession and we simply don't move about enough or anticipate better to cut out passing lanes and opportunities. Although Basham put in what some consider a crap header for the Everton goal (DCL was right behind hi and he was at full stretch to stop it going over him and landing at DCLs feet) we failed to jockey key players and simply make it difficult for the likes of Siggurdsson to one two and get into a scoring opportunity. Yes, Norwood. Once again I am looking at you. He was in this position for their goal. received a return pass and Norwood simply ran alongside him. He's good at that is Norwood. Very good.

Eventually our midfield plays so deep, we morph into an 8-2 system

View attachment 102044

where we are sat so retracted the midfield practically merges with the back five and the opposition midfield has free rein to pass across and back our central and final third with impunity. This becomes the 'it's only a matter of time before they score' system, because they've got so many opportunities to pass and cross (Southampton is a good example) and so much space in front of goal to one-two and be faced with Ramsdale. And, our front two might as well just fuck off for a bath. Didsy becomes our only outlet if we manage to regain possession and then only with a mighty hoof out to the flanks, and usually when we've endured this fucking nightmare for any length of time, the midfield is so shit scared to take the ball out that our back three or goalkeeper just boots it onto McPub's swede. And because he has no players round him for the second ball, it goes to their players and they are back up the pitch again and pinning us into the 8-2 around our box.

That is where I feel we are going wrong. Our play is too predictable, our midfield is weak and outnumbered and in defence we are too submissive.

Does this chime with anyone? Anyone agree, or see anything different? Anyone have any ideas how to change this? What would you do?

pommpey
Click to expand...
Good analysis that.

Simplified I see it as:

With the ball:

  • Teams press
  • We panic
  • possession is turned over
  • other teams are better in ‘transition’ than us due to pace, power and skill

the alternative is hoof and we all know what happens when we do that.

Without the ball:

  • we don’t press as a unit
  • the forwards aren’t defending from the front
  • the defence is either too deep or too flat
  • there are 2 ways through us, pass around us or long ball that we’ll fail to deal with
  • the midfield are weak and slow and are getting bullied by better and stronger players

We don’t seem to be able to stop any of this happening but for me, we need to start by pressing better. I think if we can get other teams less comfortable in possession then it will be the starting point for us. That’s all we can hope for at the moment.
 
CentralQuay said:
Is that what you genuinely believe from what you're seeing, or what is easier to believe?

Going forward the side was just as poor as last season.
Defensively, last season was a lot lot better.

Personally I think everyone is now seeing just how many players in this squad are simply not good enough for this level, unless in a fully confident, well organised structure that is fully benefitting from the momentum of promotion.


Wilder has got the absolute maximum of the players to get out of the championship, and the reality is, he needs significantly more time, because of the lack of funds available, to progress the club into a PL one.
This Club has spent 6 of the last 9 years in League 1, and it shows.
Click to expand...
Yes, I honestly believe that this group of players are better than the performances they are serving up at present.
I also believe that they were playing to the limit of their collective capability last season.
Hence why I said the truth probably lies somewhere between the two.
If our natural level is how we are performing now, we wouldn’t have got promoted in the first place
 
Swannyblade said:
Yes, I honestly believe that this group of players are better than the performances they are serving up at present.
I also believe that they were playing to the limit of their collective capability last season.
Hence why I said the truth probably lies somewhere between the two.
If our natural level is how we are performing now, we wouldn’t have got promoted in the first place
Click to expand...

If their natural level is the Premier League, why have they spent only 1 of the last 10 years being competitive in it?

511 Premier League Appearances in the squad against Palace.
92 of those were Mousset.

Outside of Mousset, the PL appearances from the most experienced players at other clubs, like Fleck/Basham/Norwood/Mcgoldrick/Basham/Stevens etc are virutally none existent.

The Experienced players are not good enough to play at this level for a sustained period.
As has been shown by their 'Natural level' being below PL level for their whole careers.
 
CentralQuay said:
If their natural level is the Premier League, why have they spent only 1 of the last 10 years being competitive in it?

511 Premier League Appearances in the squad against Palace.
92 of those were Mousset.

Outside of Mousset, the PL appearances from the most experienced players at other clubs, like Fleck/Basham/Norwood/Mcgoldrick/Basham/Stevens etc are virutally none existent.

The Experienced players are not good enough to play at this level for a sustained period.
As has been shown by their 'Natural level' being below PL level for their whole careers.
Click to expand...
I didn’t say their natural level was Premier League level, I said it’s better than the performances they are producing this season.
Fleck, Norwood, Stevens, Egan are all better players than they are currently showing...if you can’t see that you must have been watching a different team for the last 3/4yrs. At times this season, they’ve appeared incapable of doing the most basic things and I know them to be better players than that.
 
Swannyblade said:
I didn’t say their natural level was Premier League level, I said it’s better than the performances they are producing this season.
Fleck, Norwood, Stevens, Egan are all better players than they are currently showing...if you can’t see that you must have been watching a different team for the last 3/4yrs. At times this season, they’ve appeared incapable of doing the most basic things and I know them to be better players than that.
Click to expand...

Norwood is actually a great Microcosm for the problem with the point you're making, and the actual truth.

A decent little footballer, fairly good passing range, neat and tidy on the ball.......
And at 29 has only played 1 season in the Premier League, and after this season, will never play at this level again.

Any side in any league should have more than 2 points after 17 games.
But expecting Championship players to have prolonged success in the Premier League, is illogical.
 
pommpey said:
Om your say so? Hardly.

If you're too lazy or to resigned to our fate then so be it. I don't really give two shits. You shouldn't either, nor give two about be posting my views on some dark corner of the internet. If you see 'My Take ... ' simply scroll past and ignore. Click on one that says 'Aren't we fucking shit, and I don't care?' or better still, make one yourself.

Seems to me, like all the paperboys who do their best to close down opinion, you just don't have the potatoes to do such a thing. I'm not sure why you even come on here.

pommpey
Click to expand...
You're not sure why I even come on here?
Well, fukin hell, here's a reality check for yer. It's to try and offer an alternative opinion, apart from self appointed gob-shite people like yourself, who just swamp the board with their own omnipotent views. In your minimalist world, people are either paperboys (immature, easily dismissed) or pigs in disguise - if we happen to oppose your views (you did tell me to consider supporting a team in S6)
Whilst you may have some constructive points, your overall dogmatic attitude just rankles.
You may care, but you also bore, with your super scrutiny and micro-analysis of every fart.
I'm as guilty as you, I've just spent far to long in just telling you to please stop being such a pompous know all.
There- that's your new moniker - not Pommpey but Pompous - far more fitting.
 
A couple of points I’d like to pick up on .

1. Shearer’s repeated assessment that the way for us to score more goals is to bang more crosses in is far too simplistic . That approach can work when you’ve got the likes of himself and Chris Sutton waiting for them , but when it’s any combination of Brewster , Mousett , Burke , McGoldrick etc. it might lead to 1 in 50 - in other words a waste of time .

2. I ’m beginning to think that CW’s reluctance to move away from the 3-5-2 at which we are now embarrassingly poor is the fact that he and his staff are incapable of coming up with an effective alternative .

Take yesterday’s attempt at doing so as an example . I was confused right from the start as to what it was supposed to be but more importantly so were the players , demonstrated by the fact that after only 3 minutes Egan had to abandon his post in central defence to try to fill the bloody great hole in the right back position leading to the first goal .

Yes , individual errors were also involved but the whole system seemed so random that we spent the whole match lacking any form of cohesion , resulting in an overall performance which can only be described as shameful .

The responsibility for that lies partly with the players but largely with those who select the team and decide on the formation and tactics to be deployed and so far this season , they have been abysmal .
 
1066blade said:
You're not sure why I even come on here?
Well, fukin hell, here's a reality check for yer. It's to try and offer an alternative opinion, apart from self appointed gob-shite people like yourself, who just swamp the board with their own omnipotent views. In your minimalist world, people are either paperboys (immature, easily dismissed) or pigs in disguise - if we happen to oppose your views (you did tell me to consider supporting a team in S6)
Whilst you may have some constructive points, your overall dogmatic attitude just rankles.
You may care, but you also bore, with your super scrutiny and micro-analysis of every fart.
I'm as guilty as you, I've just spent far to long in just telling you to please stop being such a pompous know all.
There- that's your new moniker - not Pommpey but Pompous - far more fitting.
Click to expand...

Actually ...

Edited.

Can't be fucking arsed.

pommpey
 
Isaw Joeshaw said:
A couple of points I’d like to pick up on .

1. Shearer’s repeated assessment that the way for us to score more goals is to bang more crosses in is far too simplistic . That approach can work when you’ve got the likes of himself and Chris Sutton waiting for them , but when it’s any combination of Brewster , Mousett , Burke , McGoldrick etc. it might lead to 1 in 50 - in other words a waste of time .

2. I ’m beginning to think that CW’s reluctance to move away from the 3-5-2 at which we are now embarrassingly poor is the fact that he and his staff are incapable of coming up with an effective alternative .

Take yesterday’s attempt at doing so as an example . I was confused right from the start as to what it was supposed to be but more importantly so were the players , demonstrated by the fact that after only 3 minutes Egan had to abandon his post in central defence to try to fill the bloody great hole in the right back position leading to the first goal .

Yes , individual errors were also involved but the whole system seemed so random that we spent the whole match lacking any form of cohesion , resulting in an overall performance which can only be described as shameful .

The responsibility for that lies partly with the players but largely with those who select the team and decide on the formation and tactics to be deployed and so far this season , they have been abysmal .
Click to expand...

Having a clear structure and identity is important for success, that's why i'm very reluctant to accept the voices of others who want to completely disregard Wilder's 352/532.

Swansea, under multiple managers, had an identity and way of playing, when they went away from it, they went from a stable PL club, to relegation.
Stoke, went from a side which focused heavily on organisation, when they drifted away from it and began signing more flair players, like Bojan/Shaqiri, they went from a stable PL club, to relegation.


You get rid of Wilder, the structure he has put in place at the club, and I fear freefall. A return to the state of affairs and disorganisation that led to the club being in League 1 for 6 of the last 9 seasons.
 
CentralQuay said:
Having a clear structure and identity is important for success, that's why i'm very reluctant to accept the voices of others who want to completely disregard Wilder's 352/532.

Swansea, under multiple managers, had an identity and way of playing, when they went away from it, they went from a stable PL club, to relegation.
Stoke, went from a side which focused heavily on organisation, when they drifted away from it and began signing more flair players, like Bojan/Shaqiri, they went from a stable PL club, to relegation.


You get rid of Wilder, the structure he has put in place at the club, and I fear freefall. A return to the state of affairs and disorganisation that led to the club being in League 1 for 6 of the last 9 seasons.
Click to expand...

Entirely different scenarios .

They went into freefall after abandoning their approach from positions of relative success . We are already in freefall and have been for over 20 games by blindly sticking with the system which seen us break innumerable records for the worst start to the season at any level in the entire history of the game of football .
 
I just think that the penny dropped with Wilder a while ago that this team isn’t good enough for the PL. Having arrived at that conclusion it’s all about damage limitation. For everybody’s sake, not least his. That explains his tactics, as it’s in nobody’s interest to be losing by two and three every game. The problem is a lack of funds. With a more generous wage structure the recruitment would have been better.
 
Did you get Prozone for Christmas Pommpey? 😉

Really nice job. Great read, not missing your own inimitable style.

Midfield is the problem and I also think the lack of alternative to using the width also.

I'd probably cut this into two:

1. Athleticism. In the Championship because we have better midfielders in terms of possession, we would turn over the ball proportionately less than our less skilled opponents. Being decent with the ball was King, especially for the likes of Norwood. Now, at this level, we are the ones who turnover possession most. As such the ability to get it back becomes a far bigger factor. We have to be able to run, harry and regain possession. In this regard we lack the athleticism in the first picks - Norwood is not good defensively, Fleck is not hitting stride at all, and Berge is cumbersome and lacking conditioning at times. The lad Coulibaly would probably add something to this team for the same reasons. When we return to the Championship, we may well dominate play once more but it will be clear their is a ceiling with thee players for the reasons mentioned.

2. No Duffy. Whilst the overlap favours work out wide when Duffy was there he allowed us to retain possession further up the pitch and could provide openings through the middle, most notably ball inside the fullbacks and centre half to put Billy in on goal for instance. Without a player occupying this space we lose part of our attacking intent. This then overlaps with the first point. We went to a flat 3 because we were concerned about being more robust. If you had more athletic deeper lying midfielders then you have more comfort playing a no 10. The level below we can get away with it. This level, less so. This points to the fact that sooner rather than later, the midfield will need replacing with a more athletic bunch to raise the ceiling. We may well continue with Fleck and Norwood next season and may well do well because they are better with the ball than their contemporaries but we would face the same again 12 months later. We 'got away with one' with Lundstram's combination of athleticism, size, power and him contributing offensively. But this was good fortune. We didn't get up playing with him and his emergence papered over cracks a little. Lacking that central ball carrier to break lines exposes the same issue we encountered when we played a 3 vs Boro and lost poorly in the Championship.

Overall I'd also say build up play can be too slow. We spend too long allowing the opposition to retreat and take their positions. Perhaps this is down to confidence and the whole playing back and playing square that comes with a lack of belief a losing team has. But the quickness of movement has to be coupled with the intricate wide play or everything will continue to look so static when we attack.

UTB
 

Well it looks like we have found a new manager should Wilder quit or get pushed :rolleyes:. You know football is a simple game really the players shouldn't need telling where it is going wrong maybe we are over complicating the game for them.
Put in simple terms the loss of JOC and the loss of form/confidence in Stevens and Fleck has reduced the team's effectiveness by 50% and the players brought in over the summer are not the squad fillers who could improve but are now playing week in week out when they are not up to it. Robinson, Osborn, Ampadu, Bryan, Lowe, don't come close to how the former three started last season. Add to that we are playing a want away in midfield and Norwood who has lost a yard of pace and 2 seconds in speed of thought and you really have the perfect storm. No wonder those up front are not getting good service and are reduced to chasing the ball as the opposition pass it around them.
 
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