Sheffield United under a Labour government...

[nopigfansintown]

Well you can’t implement the first vote and then have another referendum. How is having another vote, asking the same people the same question ‘antidemocratic’? I just don’t understand the concept in this context.

I think if there’s a hung parliament another general election could be held rather than trying to form a minority government.

As I said in my previous post, anti democratic would have been ignoring the outcome of the referendum, having a final ‘are you sure’ referendum can’t be anti democratic, it’s still going to show ‘the will of the people’.

Of course you can.If we accept that the leave verdict didn't determine the type of Brexit (this is ambiguous) it's necessary. The question would be: we are leaving the EU on (insert date) which deal that we have ratified with our EU friends do you want for Britain? Then a list of options that are legally binding and agreed with the EU and parliament. Of course we have the loons running Brexit so they have no options that have already been agreed to offer the electorate...This second referendum on that basis should have already been scheduled and taken place but we have morons running the show.
A future question for a referendum on rejoining the EU could be: do you want to rejoin the EU? (with it pointed out exactly what rejoining the EU means). We are free to rejoin after we've left as long as we fulfill the EU's criterion.A referendum would then be democratic and could be fought for; in the same way 'leave' fought for theirs. It's antidemocratic to put the cart before the horse as we haven't yet implemented the will of the people. Britain hasn't left the EU. I wish we'd had a "are you sure general election" already, but life's a bitch and the Tories have the whip hand.For me it's the same thing.
Your hung parliament is an interesting idea.Then it would be democratic for the commons to come to a constitutional agreement over what Brexit we are going to have.A national government of representatives passing the will of the electorate, who democratically gave them the right to do so - in a general election. If I was a Tory, I would have done this as soon as the result came in despite having more seats; passed Brexit; and then called a General election. No Faustian pact with the DUP. It would have weakened the EU's hand and taken away the chance of Labour making political capital in the interim negotiations and post Brexit. Culpability would be shared. They chose prioritising a Tory Brexit instead. I hope they pay for it.

 

[nopigfansintown]

It was funny how many labour politicians became keynesians post 2008, despite doing the exact opposite of Keynesianism for the previous half decade.

The neoliberals have a lot to answer for. If they are still in situ when/if Labour tries to implement the current manifesto; they will vote down every Keynesian policy in the current manifesto - alongside the Tories.

 

[BushBlade]

View attachment 44589

I’m just trying to politely step away from what’s becoming a party political debate. I’ve already said previously in the thread that I’m not interested in party politics and I think politicians are self serving pricks.

 

[Topplayersleave]

Are any of them interested in sending policemen to burglaries or dealing with the violent crime epidemic instead of paying Durham Constabulary overtime to sit in a van for hours while a footy match with at most, 2.5k away fans builds up?

Twats the lot of em.

True
An incident with a drunk driver totally demolishing my next door neighbours wall and fence went uninvestigated because nobody was injured
He's got a £2500 Bill to repair the damage and struggling with his insurance company because there is no police report
The driver has got off scott free to do it all again and maybe kill somebody next time

 

[Sean Thornton]

I’m just trying to politely step away from what’s becoming a party political debate. I’ve already said previously in the thread that I’m not interested in party politics and I think politicians are self serving pricks.

'Twas a joke.

 

[super_pig]

I’m just trying to politely step away from what’s becoming a party political debate. I’ve already said previously in the thread that I’m not interested in party politics and I think politicians are self serving pricks.

agree mate
brexit is cross party it isn’t a labour tory thing
that’s why labour are annoying me they are using it for their own purposes instead of backing their own fucking country first

 

[super_pig]

Of course you can.If we accept that the leave verdict didn't determine the type of Brexit (this is ambiguous) it's necessary. The question would be: we are leaving the EU on (insert date) which deal that we have ratified with our EU friends do you want for Britain? Then a list of options that are legally binding and agreed with the EU and parliament. Of course we have the loons running Brexit so they have no options that have already been agreed to offer the electorate...This second referendum on that basis should have already been scheduled and taken place but we have morons running the show.
A future question for a referendum on rejoining the EU could be: do you want to rejoin the EU? (with it pointed out exactly what rejoining the EU means). We are free to rejoin after we've left as long as we fulfill the EU's criterion.A referendum would then be democratic and could be fought for; in the same way 'leave' fought for theirs. It's antidemocratic to put the cart before the horse as we haven't yet implemented the will of the people. Britain hasn't left the EU. I wish we'd had a "are you sure general election" already, but life's a bitch and the Tories have the whip hand.For me it's the same thing.
Your hung parliament is an interesting idea.Then it would be democratic for the commons to come to a constitutional agreement over what Brexit we are going to have.A national government of representatives passing the will of the electorate, who democratically gave them the right to do so - in a general election. If I was a Tory, I would have done this as soon as the result came in despite having more seats; passed Brexit; and then called a General election. No Faustian pact with the DUP. It would have weakened the EU's hand and taken away the chance of Labour making political capital in the interim negotiations and post Brexit. Culpability would be shared. They chose prioritising a Tory Brexit instead. I hope they pay for it.

that’s like saying we have ine election to elect the govermennt and then another to set the policies

 

[super_pig]

Well you can’t implement the first vote and then have another referendum. How is having another vote, asking the same people the same question ‘antidemocratic’? I just don’t understand the concept in this context.

I think if there’s a hung parliament another general election could be held rather than trying to form a minority government.

As I said in my previous post, anti democratic would have been ignoring the outcome of the referendum, having a final ‘are you sure’ referendum can’t be anti democratic, it’s still going to show ‘the will of the people’.

that’s great spin but i’ve never heard so much bollocks in my life.. are you peter mandelson by any chance

 

[super_pig]

What they're doing is a classic negotiating technique. They are in the strong position and are using it, they will say no no for months because the longer time goes by the weaker position we will be in which means we are more likely to accept the deal they want. Also... They have been clarifying their position all summer which is that this Chequers deal is incompatible with the single market given that May won't budge on her red lines, therefore the only thing on offer will be a Canada style deals which probably won't be good for large British manufacturers but is what leading Brexiteers want.

I don't think highly intellectual, well educated international statesmen think they're "so cool" I think they probably think they doing the best thing possible for the citizens of the countries remaining within the EU

statesmen? bunch of gangsters more like

 

[Harrisblade]

agree mate
brexit is cross party it isn’t a labour tory thing
that’s why labour are annoying me they are using it for their own purposes instead of backing their own fucking country first

To be fair, both parties are using it for political gain AND backing their country.
Whether it's good for the country is completely unproven and unprovable until after it's happened.
At the moment we're guided by our own feelings - and we all have various ones on different aspects

 

[Addison]

We've never really done well as a Club under a Labour government. In our glory period between 1898 and 1902 the Tories were in power.

We won the 1915 FA Cup under a Coalition government dominated by Tories.

1925 FA Cup success and the Tories were back in power the same year.

We suffered our first relegation from the top flight in 1933 under Ramsay Macdonalds Labour government.

As a Second Divison team in 1936 last time we were in the FA Cup Final Tories in power again.

Got promoted back to Division 1 with Neville Chamberlains Conservatives in 1938.

Relegated back to Division 2 under Clem Atlees Labour in 1949.

Promoted back to Division 1 as Champions in 1953, Churchills Conservatives.

Our first blip under the Tories when we were relegated in Anthony Edens government in 1956.

Bounced back in 1961 in the never had it so good years of Harold Macmilans Tories.

Labour back in power with Harold Wilson in 1968 and guess what we go down again.

Ted Heath the yachtsman is a Blue P.M. in 1971 and we get promoted back to Division 1.

Harold W's returns and in 1975 and we go down again - bit of a developing theme here.

James Callaghan takes over for Labour and it gets worse for us we get relegated to Division Three for the first time in 1979.

The Thatcher effect kicks in as we go down to the fourth Division in 1981 for the first and only time in our History. Only the second time we've had a bad result under the Tories.

Back with a bounce in 1982 as Champions under the blue rinse brigade.

Love affair with the Tories continues in 1984 as we go up again into Division 2.

1988 our third relegation under the Blues and maybe they aren't such a lucky charm after all.

Spoke too soon double promotion under Thatcher to the top Division in 1989 and 1990.

1994 the yo yo effect with John Major's Tories has taken us back down to Division 2.

1995 to 2006 -11 years in the championship not even a change from a Blue to a Red Government impacts on our league status.

2007 - Finally a good result under Labour and Blair a promotion to the Premiership.

2008 - Labour feel good factor doesn't last long relegated next year. Our 6th bad result under Labour. The only Labour Government we haven't had a bad result under is the 64-66 one.

2011 - Coalition government sends us down again to a 6 year pub league sentence.

2016 - Camerons Conservative government in power and we are back in the Championship under Sir Chris.

In summary

Under Tories 1 League Championship, Champions of Britain, 3 FA Cup wins and one FA Cup Final appearance. 9 promotions and 4 relegations.

Under Coalition Government 1 FA Cup win and 1 relegation.

Under Labour 1 promotion and 6 relegations.

Anyone thinking of changing their voting allegiances?

 

[super_pig]

Well you can’t implement the first vote and then have another referendum. How is having another vote, asking the same people the same question ‘antidemocratic’? I just don’t understand the concept in this context.

I think if there’s a hung parliament another general election could be held rather than trying to form a minority government.

As I said in my previous post, anti democratic would have been ignoring the outcome of the referendum, having a final ‘are you sure’ referendum can’t be anti democratic, it’s still going to show ‘the will of the people’.

just read that again and it is quite brilliant .. sell it to labour

 

[JJ Sefton]

'Since its conference opened in Liverpool on Sunday, Labour has already announced plans for worker representation on company boards....

Under Labour's "inclusive ownership fund" proposal, Mr McDonnell said workers would be given a financial stake in their employers and more say over how companies are run.

Firms would have to put 1% of their shares into the fund every year up to a maximum of 10%.

The amount of share capital available to workers would be capped at £500, with the rest - estimated at £2.1bn a year by the end of a five-year Parliamentary term - going into a fund to pay for public services and welfare.

'Broadening of ownership'
The scheme would apply to companies with more than 250 workers, although smaller firms could set up inclusive ownership funds if they wanted to.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45621361

How do people think this will affect us?

We have more than 250 workers so I wonder what say they will have over how SUFC is run....

It won't because the pitch will have been turned over the Ministry of Agriculture for subsistence potato farming.

 

[Darthblade]

If you're quite happy with the clusterfuck that is our current privatised rail service and other privatised utilities who's bottom line is shareholder profit, the creeping privatization of the NHS, top companies paying no tax, wages stagnent for the past ten years, government in open warfare over the Brexit shambles, and the massive cuts to council budgets, fair enough. You're welcome to vote Tory. Jacob Rees Mogg would make a great PM wouldn't he? Hoorah!

Social Democratic parties across Europe have evolved since the 70s and now they are much more innovative and pragmatic. Labour's policies aren't much different to the major left-leaning parties of Germany, Sweden and other north European center-left parties. But look how much better the Tories are doing than that lot, eh?

Personally I'd rather give Labour a chance than allow that bunch of privileged, overpaid, corrupt public schoolboys another five years in office.

UTB & FTP

 

[Darthblade]

Can we please stop talking about the possibility of that lunatic Corbyn getting into power …… the lot that are in now are making a bad enough job of it but that commie maniac would really sink the ship

Its a TRULY frightening thought !!

UTB & FTP

 

[Dkc]

commie maniac

UTB & FTP

Corbyn's a lot of things but he's neither a communist nor a maniac.

I just think that it's sad. Our method of debating has changed. We've become hysterical and unable to argue properly. People need to accept certain realities before entering into a political debate. Just as May and Farange aren't fascists, Corbyn isn't a communist. You may not like them, but all those politicians beleive in democracy. You vote them in, and if you don't like what they do, you vote them out.

Frankly I'm amazed to see so much stuff posted on here about Corbyn, and others, that simply isn't true. No one seems to want to check their facts any more. Perhaps because they prefer the narrative of their political peer group to the reality.

 

[BladeFisher]

Another load of bollocks. Why post stuff that's obviously untrue? You lose a lot of credibility doing so.

There are lots of remainers who want whichever government is in power to hold a second vote with a 'remain' option. However, neither Labour nor the Tories support this. The Labour Party conference is less stage managed than the Tories and as a result more motions can be tabled, but a new vote on remaining in the EU will not be LP policy.

There is a commitment to full democracy in Labour's constitution. It has pledged to respec the will of the people on Brexit and other public issues.

What evidence do you have that Labour 'plans to transform the UK into a police state' with 'no democracy' apart from the rantings of Sun and Mail columists?

I don't know how old you are nipper but a Labour Government now would destroy Britain forever. Brown damn near bankrupted us, Corbyn and MacDonald certainly would.

 

[georgebernardshaw]