Season Tickets, 1 week on

[SwissBlade]

I'm wondering then what people like me are classed as in your patronizing world. We support a regime of betrayal with funding for further betrayals. Don't make me laugh.

 

[lenners]

I'm wondering then what people like me are classed as in your patronizing world. We support a regime of betrayal with funding for further betrayals. Don't make me laugh.

I think you're losing it Swiss, you're not making any sense. What argument is smashed and how?

 

[SteelCity Blade]

My kids have come with me on the Kop since they were about 5. I take your point about the view but for me, that's what football is all about. They stand on the seats, on peoples backs - it's football and they love it.

Tuesday night reminded me how great it can be. £299 for the Kop. Bugger all (nearly) for the kids. Good value.

Get your tickets bought and be able to say "I stuck with 'em though thick and thin"....

UTB

I get where you're coming from alco, but for £299 you should still be able to have a good view of the play at all times regardless of age, height, whatever - just my opinion. I think the problem with our Kop is that its structurally not very steep compared to other clubs' and because of the gradient its a lot easier to block the person behind you if you stand up (sounded like this wasnt as much of a problem when it was all standing). If you buy a ST on there and you're happy with that then its pointless me banging on about the poor view, but I am just highlighting the reason I wouldn't buy one on there. Each to their own and all that - if the view was better I would buy at that price in a flash and so would many others I would imagine. That would be great value! But I suspect the view is part of the reason for the lower price.

Re: your last point, that was the entire basis of my earlier post regarding "True Blades" - why does my decision not to buy a ST mean I'm not sticking by them? I will still be supporting them, spending a few bob in the club shop and attending as many games as I can.....does that not count?

 

[Ollessendro]

I think the pricing is about right, in essence United have lost 2 1/2% because of the VAT increase so they are reduced in one sense. The increasing of the juniors age limit is good.

Interesting point. If you take into account inflation then the real price of a season ticket has actually decreased somewhat. Inflation has been well above 3% for the whole year (and is currently around 4-5%I believe) and hence you would be expecting season ticket prices to rise by a similar amount.

The club has given up on the 5,000 fans they lost last season and they seem happy/prepared to lose more this season as they'd rather 10,000 fans at £300 than 15,000 or 20,000 at £149.

It's shortsighted and the club is going to lose huge sums of money because the 5,000 that didn't renew last season will probably not renew again in any signiifcant numbers now till we are promoted to the prem.

I suspect another couple of thousand at least will not renew this year. If that's 7,000 lost for 5 or 10 years then that's a huge loss both financially when you multiply it up but it's a bigger loss in other ways to the future of the club.

Hope I'm wrong and thousands return to the fold with this fanatastic "pay what you refused to pay last season offer but this time for League One football or a meaningless season in the championship"

Disagree with this. We lost the fans because we did not get back to the premier league. Some hung on whilst we did ok and looked like going back up. Many end up going because of poor football.

Tell me Tuns, how many games have you been to this season?

---------- Post added at 11:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 AM ----------

This is an interesting thread and there is some interesting debate. Ollessendro's thoughts:

to me a lot of this is cyclical. We lost 5k season ticket holders because of the division we are in. Some because of the dross football, some because of McCabe/Birch, but most because we are now a Championship team (though soon to change). If we lose another 2/3k during the summer then we will have lost 7 or 8k season ticket holders. That is 4k for dropping one division and another 3 o 4k for dropping another. I think it is expected that if you drop 2 division then you would be expecting to lose a significant amount of the 'core' fanbase.

Before anyone poo poo's this post. Here are a few questions to consider:

- what was the number of season tickets in the Warnock years? (before the prem)

- what were the number of season tickets sold pre Warnock? (now I had a season ticket from 94-98 and I seem to remember there only being around 12k for some of the night matches against poor opposition).

- It would also be interesting to know what happened to Man City's and Leeds season tickets sales when they dropped to the third tier. Maybe Bradford, Norwich and Southampton too.

Here is an interestig example. Barnsley had 5k season ticket holders in their promotion season. When they got to the Prem they had 16k season ticket holders. Can we read into this? Of course we can. I would hazard a guess that we had less than 15k (maybe even 13 or 14k) in 2004/2005 and this shot up when we went up.

Don't get me wrong. I am not defending the club. Not am I defending Birch/McCabe. I hhave been highly critical of them. The marketing campaign is awful, but the pricing seems ok to me. We are heading for thrid tier football and probably aroudn 12k season ticket holders. What was the numbner of season ticket holders sold when we were in last in the thrid tier.

People will come back! Some will not go away at all (liek Tuns who will probably go to 10-15 matches a season). When we get promoted, start playing better and winnign etc people will return. If we return to the Prem in 5 years then we'll have 19k season ticket holders again!

 

[Kopped]

The whole marketing idea of "True Blades will be at the lane" is a statement from a board so far away from what fans actually think, that they are trying to play with peoples conscience. This is disgraceful and a desperate act that shows them up for the negative backward thinking bigots they actually are.

"Safety First" is the motto of this club, not "We Are United!"

Such is the stance of everyone and everything involved in the club. From the Owner/Chairman/CEO right down to the tea lady, office lacky and boot boy.

That is what is fundamentally wrong with this club!

 

[Ollessendro]

Where are the stato's, geeks, knowledgables, or people with good memories? Where diod Darren go? SellyOak, you are good with stuff like this. Can anyone answer the questions below?

- what was the number of season tickets sold in the Warnock years? (before the prem)

- what were the number of season tickets sold pre Warnock? - i.e. the latter Basset years in Div 1and under Kendall, Spackers, Bruce etc (now I had a season ticket from 94-98 and I seem to remember there only being around 12k for some of the night matches against poor opposition).

 

[Big Mart]

So on to long term fans walking away, its their choice and of course they may have stuck with us through even worse times than now, it still makes them fair weather fans to me. I'm not perfect as a fan, far from it, I chose to play football on saturdays for a long time after we got relegated in the 90's.

What a load of old horse shit. Who the fuck are you to call me a fair weather fan? Been there seen it and done it for this shower over the years, and in far worse "weather" than the current climate so get off your high horse and stop trying to be the biggest Blade on the message board, instead you come over as a rather patronizing prat.

 

[Ollessendro]

Average attendes under Warnock ranged from 13k (in the season he took over) to 23k (promotion season). Funnily enough they gradually increased as we got better (i.e. more people in 2002/2003 and 2005/2006 and massess in the Prem). In the Prem the average attendences were over 30k. From 1994 to 1998 the average attendence was around 15/16k, with a low of 12k in 1995/1996. Funnily enough that year was a couple of seasons after we got relegated.

Sp what does this mean? In 95/96 if average attendences were 12k then how many season tickets did we seel that year? 7 or 8k? Or was it 9 or 10k 'hard core' fans. Under Warnock the attendenes averaged in the late teens/earry 20's, suggesting we probably had as many season tickest holders as we have now.

Cyclical. When we are doing well, then we'll have more people come to watch. If we go down this year, but win League One next year (or get promoted) then I am sure we'll recapture most (if not more) of the season ticket holders.

(I happen to think that the club is run badly, communicartion is poor, marketing is a joke, have big issues with Birch and McCabe - however I am seeing the bigger picture).

 

[Trigger Blade]

Swiss, you're tieing yourself in knots.
And you seem really confused about the difference between supporting the club and going to matches.
A lot of people will still support the club and look for the results, they just won't spend their money on a business which has betrayed its customers.

Personally, I don't feel betrayed, I think that's a very strong a word to use and isn't what happened. It implies a deliberate, wilful act and I don't think that's how it was. Nobody in their right mind would want the club to be in the position it is in.

I feel let down and very disappointed, because I really believed that when we went up in 2006, this time it was different when in the end it wasn't. That isn't the same thing as betrayed.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Where are the stato's, geeks, knowledgables, or people with good memories? Where diod Darren go? SellyOak, you are good with stuff like this. Can anyone answer the questions below?

No idea about season ticket sales but the average attendances are shown below.
The key point is that the last time we were in Division 3, the average attendance was only 12,279.
That's despite us playing exciting football, scoring loads of goals and being in the top two all season.
It's also worth noting that 12,279 was actually an increase on the previous four seasons.
Our current average is around 20,500.
I would expect us to get a similar attendance next season if we do well and to drop to about 16,000 if we do badly.

Year Place Lge Lvl Pos Ave
2010 8 2 28 25.120
2009 3 2 23 26.023
2008 9 2 29 25.631
2007 18 1 18 30.512
2006 2 2 22 23.650
2005 8 2 28 19.594
2004 8 2 28 21.646
2003 3 2 23 18.073
2002 13 2 33 18.031
2001 10 2 30 17.211
2000 16 2 36 13.700
1999 8 2 28 16.258
1998 6 2 26 17.936
1997 5 2 25 16.675
1996 9 2 29 12.904
1995 8 2 30 14.408
1994 20 1 20 19.562
1993 14 1 14 18.985
1992 9 1 9 21.805
1991 13 1 13 21.609
1990 2 2 22 17.008
1989 2 3 46 12.279
1988 21 2 42 10.207
1987 9 2 31 9.992
1986 7 2 29 10.798
1985 18 2 40 12.055
1984 3 3 47 12.881
1983 11 3 55 11.764
1982 1 4 69 14.892
1981 21 3 65 12.772
1980 12 3 56 16.584
1979 20 2 42 16.339
1978 12 2 34 15.489
1977 11 2 33 16.779
1976 22 1 22 23.549
1975 6 1 6 22.555
1974 13 1 13 22.917
1973 14 1 14 23.509
1972 10 1 10 33.189
1971 2 2 24 25.254
1970 6 2 28 17.840
1969 9 2 31 15.480
1968 21 1 21 22.646
1967 10 1 10 20.600
1966 9 1 9 19.405
1965 19 1 19 20.006
1964 12 1 12 21.654
1963 10 1 10 22.775
1962 5 1 5 22.526
1961 2 2 24 18.487
1960 4 2 26 18.054
1959 3 2 25 19.580
1958 6 2 28 19.243
1957 7 2 29 21.803
1956 22 1 22 23.581
1955 13 1 13 23.880
1954 20 1 20 31.313
1953 1 2 23 31.027
1952 11 2 33 31.185
1951 8 2 30 27.488
1950 3 2 25 30.764
1949 22 1 22 34.387
1948 12 1 12 35.094
1947 6 1 6 29.537

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/england.htm

 

[Ollessendro]

The key point is that the last time we were in Division 3, the average attendance was only 12,279.
That's despite us playing exciting football, scoring loads of goals and being in the top two all season.
It's also worth noting that 12,279 was actually an increase on the previous four seasons.
Our current average is around 20,500.
I would expect us to get a similar attendance next season if we do well and to drop to about 16,000 if we do badly.

Year
2010 25.120
2009 26.023
2008 25.631
2007 30.512
2006 23.650
2005 19.594
2004 21.646
2003 18.073
2002 18.031
2001 17.211
2000 13.700
1999 16.258
1998 17.936
1997 16.675
1996 12.904
1995 14.408
1994 19.562
1993 18.985
1992 21.805
1991 21.609
1990 17.008
1989 12.279
1988 10.207
1987 9.992
1986 10.798
1985 12.055
1984 12.881
1983 11.764
1982 14.892
1981 12.772
1980 16.584
1979 16.339
1978 15.489
1977 16.779
1976 23.549
1975 22.555
1974 22.917
1973 23.509
1972 33.189
1971 25.254
1970 17.840

Anyone spot a pattern in the above?

When we have been decent, in the top flight, had a decent team etc (i.e. early 70's, early 90's and 2006) we have had very high average attendences.

When we have been shite (e.g. late 80's and mid 90's) we've had really crap average attendences.

I wouldn't mind betting that average attendance and season ticket sales are very highly correlated.

I reapeat: cycial. It's a causal realtionship. Shit football, poor prospects and bad results (not forgetting lower divisions) equals less season ticket sales and poorer attendences. Vice versa.

 

[lenners]

Personally, I don't feel betrayed, I think that's a very strong a word to use and isn't what happened. It implies a deliberate, wilful act and I don't think that's how it was. Nobody in their right mind would want the club to be in the position it is in.

I feel let down and very disappointed, because I really believed that when we went up in 2006, this time it was different when in the end it wasn't. That isn't the same thing as betrayed.

Bless them, it was just a continuing series of accidents, accidental sale of players, accidentally saying one thing and doing another, accidentally spending millions on building a hotel and giving it away for a quid.
Perhaps they've got some sort of collective dementia at the top of the club and can't remember what they've said or done from one day to the next.