Scouting infrastructure problems

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utd4ever said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Manchester City transfer news: Squad overhaul from a 650,000-strong database

BBC Sport goes inside Manchester City's data team, who have been a key part of their rebuild over the past 18 months.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

I can imagine our database consists of 7/8k British players.

I know it’s Man City but surely when you are tight for money it’s better paying for a good scouting network and having a larger world database than just spunking millions on culture carriers.
Click to expand...

Maybe we need culture carriers that can use a computer?
 



Big.Dane.w said:
Fuck me just watched this and the blokes actually become David Brent!
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Its pretty sad really.

He's a good bloke and has done a great job for us over the years but has this embarrassing tendency to say ridiculous things revealing shortfalls.

We can add this to:

  • Do gooders and leftists
  • PlayStation managers
  • The Leicester away meltdown
  • Sandwiches
If he has these backward opinions about foreign players he would be wise to keep them to himself.
 
Watched that clip doing the rounds on twitter of Tony Pulis knowing everyone so Wikipedia'd him, and this stood out. Bear in mind this was 20 years ago, when scouting and data analysis wasn't anywhere near as advanced as what it is now:

1790322554797.webp

So even Stoke 20 years ago recognised how moronic and backwards it was by only targeting British based players but our club puts all the decision making and future proofing with one man with an agenda.

We've regressed even going back nearly 30 years ago when we signed players like Marcelo, Borbokis, Dellas, Donis, Nilsen, Tebily and Katchuro from overseas clubs. Maybe Wilder's still bitter that Borbokis took his job.
 
sufc323 said:
Watched that clip doing the rounds on twitter of Tony Pulis knowing everyone so Wikipedia'd him, and this stood out. Bear in mind this was 20 years ago, when scouting and data analysis wasn't anywhere near as advanced as what it is now:

View attachment 244741

So even Stoke 20 years ago recognised how moronic and backwards it was by only targeting British based players but our club puts all the decision making and future proofing with one man with an agenda.

We've regressed even going back nearly 30 years ago when we signed players like Marcelo, Borbokis, Dellas, Donis, Nilsen, Tebily and Katchuro from overseas clubs. Maybe Wilder's still bitter that Borbokis took his job.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately because we haven't moved with the times and put a modern structure in place we'd have no hope of picking up players like those nowadays as they would be picked up by other teams before we'd even heard their names.

I still stand by my long held view that Borbokis' debut is the best I ever saw in a Blades shirt.
 
Upton_Blade said:
Unfortunately because we haven't moved with the times and put a modern structure in place we'd have no hope of picking up players like those nowadays as they would be picked up by other teams before we'd even heard their names.

I still stand by my long held view that Borbokis' debut is the best I ever saw in a Blades shirt.
Click to expand...
100% re Borbokis v Sunderland. Considering we had Deane back, McGrath etc I still remember thinking, how have managed to get him to sign for us!!
 
He has said it in interviews countless times about club culture, yes there is one here as an "old club" this forum has it's own culture of doom and gloom merchants and as a fan base positivity isn't usually something we like, whether that comes from the city/region or just in general who knows. However for me you have to expand to "culture" of the league" when focusing on players we are bringing in, as a professional footballer you shouldn't have a problem playing at clubs, there aren't many one club players anymore. We should be looking at players that fit the championship, they have to, have stamina (currently lacking), pace (currently lacking) calm under pressure (often lacking) and additional attributes, technical ability (often lacking), a 15+ goal a season goal scorer (currently lacking), height and strength (have these in some areas but often one or the other).

If you breakdown the "culture of the championship", the must haves do not fit the model of the "culture" of the vast majority of our squad. It's alright saying yes x player is a good laugh and brings morale around the group, or y is a grafter but if that is all they are bringing to the group we may as well employ a stand-up comedian.

We could easily be looking in the free market abroad or picking up talent from established leagues, such as the French/Spanish/German/Portuguese 2nd division, as the qualification of players under the work permit is quite easily achieved when the player in question has played minutes for their country providing it's ranked correctly and that's on top of the 4 ESC players that we can have. A lot of players don't make the national squad of France/Spain etc but have made the U21s and are decent players that would be worth a look. You have players like Ndiaye who although we picked up via a different route, there could well be the next one that has been overlooked as not quite good enough for Ligue 1 in France yet but would easily be good enough in the Championship.

A couple of examples just by a Google search (easy scouting) in the Winger position last season at Pau, you had Giovani Versini a French U21 international that has now moved onto Brest. At Saint-Étienne they have Georgian international Zuriko Davitashvili he is 25 now but was their top goal scorer last season with 14 in 29. It's players like that, we should have been tracking when we had the opportunity to offer a decent contract in the Premier League. In Ligue 2 in France transfer fees for players like Davitashvili are in the £3million mark and seem to provide good return.
 
Whilst I don’t think he’s phrased it very helpfully I’m assuming his point is

We don’t have the infrastructure to pick up foreign players who can cut it in the Championship AND don’t need a long assimilation period (clubs with proper infrastructure will hoover them up) so it’s more efficient short term to pick players up players who are already playing in British/Scandinavian football.

For me it comes back to the owners and their lack of investment - Wilder will have just been told to try and package it up as something vaguely coherent for the punters.

If we sack him I don’t think the recruitment changes much, just a different set of old boys for the manager to bring in.
 
There is zero point spending all this money on scouting and signing players if the manager simply refuses to give them a proper chance, as Wilder has done.

Whatever has been said about the “AI signings”, we will never truly know how good they were because most were never given a fair opportunity. Soumaré looks to be doing well at Stoke, and one of the others was playing Champions League football before coming here.

You cannot judge recruitment properly if the players are barely used.
 
Sir Nick Montgomery said:
Grbic & Olsen 👍 we’d have conceded goals playing both of them at the same time.
I remember us having that Italian under Warnock. Can’t remember him playing a game or his full name, just remember the Warnock documentary where Warnock wants names for players to go in the sea and he’s just shouting “the sea Gabby the fucking sea”
Click to expand...
Emanuele Gabrieli - he was a defender from Rieti. I think they were in Serie C at the time.
 
FMBlade1 said:
What did Wilder mean when he said that he prefers British players who have strong work ethic?

How an earth did those lazy Spaniards win the World Cup?
Click to expand...

To add to this from years gone by the follow have flourished using foreign contacts:

Swansea: Spanish players Michu & co.

Watford: The Italian loan Mafia

Leicester: French connection (Some were in PL like Kante and Mahrez were)

Huddersfield: Germans

Brentford: Dane Pastries

Their players didn't have much difficulties adapting. In the 21st century with regular Ryanair flights I don't see what the problem is with getting settled in this country.
 





Hope someone asks him about this

Do we have the ability to scout abroad but Wilder chooses not to, or do we not have the ability to recommend/recruit players from Spain Italy Germany and France?
 
FMBlade1 said:


Hope someone asks him about this

Do we have the ability to scout abroad but Wilder chooses not to, or do we not have the ability to recommend/recruit players from Spain Italy Germany and France?
Click to expand...

We appointed Ramos as a coach, without him having any kind of track record of success,so why a coach but not players?
 
www.bbc.com

Pascal Gross: Has the Brighton midfielder been underrated all this time?

Named the Premier League's player of the month for September, BBC Sport looks at Brighton star Pascal Gross' impact both this season and over the past nine years during his two spells at the club.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

"A little-heralded German from relegated Ingolstadt.."

We wouldn't have gone in for a player like Gross as he wouldn't fit into our culture 🫩
 
FMBlade1 said:
www.bbc.com

Pascal Gross: Has the Brighton midfielder been underrated all this time?

Named the Premier League's player of the month for September, BBC Sport looks at Brighton star Pascal Gross' impact both this season and over the past nine years during his two spells at the club.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

"A little-heralded German from relegated Ingolstadt.."

We wouldn't have gone in for a player like Gross as he wouldn't fit into our culture 🫩
Click to expand...
Which is ironic because most Germans would drink Wilder under the table.
 
''identify talent from around the world''

www.bbc.co.uk

How Brighton attract and develop the best young players ahead of their rivals

Brighton sporting director Mike Cave discusses Brighton's transfer policy and how the club signs and nurtures the best young talent in the game.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

But how do they fit into the clubs' culture surely it'd be better to sign players from League One and League Two!
 
"We've done that and it cost us a lot of money and we're resetting off the back of that"

CW today when he spoke about the question Bettis got asked about scouting abroad. What a fucking whopper, fails to mention about the following signings that cost us a lot of money and contributed to the mess we're in:

  • Cannon
  • Brewster
  • McBurnie
  • Freeman
  • Robinson
  • Tanganga
  • McGuinness

All who individually cost more than the combined fees of the foreign AI signings, and signed for as a collective fee of over £70million with not 1 penny back to show for it.
 
One problem with the club and its manager is that the manager never admits his mistakes and subsequently does not learn from them.
I doubt anyone brings him to task about the mistakes he makes and he subsequently does them again.
Hopefully we stay up this season and the club learn and move him on
 
Awful backwards mentality from the manager.

TBF the owners also shat the bed because of pressure from our "Gerritforrad" contingent in the fanbase.

YES, our spanish guy was a big mistake, but as has been said on here by others. the intention WASNT.

We have lost ALOT of money on expensive British signings. The whole recruitment set up has been awful for well over a decade or more.

Can some of our so called Journos actually put CW and the people at the club on the spot about - What exactly they mean by "culture".........

Break this culture thing down for us. What exactly do you mean?

because if you mean - run more, fight more, be first to the ball etc. Thats the bare minimum ANY professional footballer should be striving for. Its not exclusive to Sheffield United.

We really should be doing better as a second tier club.
 
sufc323 said:
"We've done that and it cost us a lot of money and we're resetting off the back of that"

CW today when he spoke about the question Bettis got asked about scouting abroad. What a fucking whopper, fails to mention about the following signings that cost us a lot of money and contributed to the mess we're in:

  • Cannon
  • Brewster
  • McBurnie
  • Freeman
  • Robinson
  • Tanganga
  • McGuinness

All who individually cost more than the combined fees of the foreign AI signings, and signed for as a collective fee of over £70million with not 1 penny back to show for it.
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This ^^
At least when we sold Berge & Vini Souza we got some money back. Retsos was a loan so unless there was an astronomical loan fee I don't see how that would coat us loads of money. But let's just gloss over Brewster, McBurnie and the rest who we recouped precisely nothing for.
 
FMBlade1 said:
Its pretty sad really.

He's a good bloke and has done a great job for us over the years but has this embarrassing tendency to say ridiculous things revealing shortfalls.

We can add this to:

  • Do gooders and leftists
  • PlayStation managers
  • The Leicester away meltdown
  • Sandwiches
If he has these backward opinions about foreign players he would be wise to keep them to himself.
Click to expand...
My personal favourite:

 
Mentioned this in SB earlier, but for the benefit of those who don't look at that for whatever reason:

In his press conference, as evidence of how we have utilised foreign markets for transfers, Wilder cited Sander Berge and... Panagiotis Retsos?

Here's how well-used Retsos was in his spell with us:

Screenshot_20261009_144610_Brave.webp

That sole FA Cup appearance, was away to Reading. He was brought on at the start of the 2nd half of extra time, replacing Luke Freeman. He was on the bench for 3 PL matches and was never brought on.

Wilder today, referenced Retsos being a full Greek international, as if this helped absolve him of anything. Retsos made his Greece senior debut nearly 3 years before he signed for us, had a handful of appearances, and then didn't appear for the senior squad for almost 5 years (March 2018 - November 2022). I'm not going to go through that entire spell to see why he didn't get called up, but Wilder proclaiming him as a Greek international, when the lad was in the middle of a 5-year hiatus from the senior team when he was with us, is an incredibly bad faith claim to make.

The handling of Retsos while he was with us is a perfect demonstration of why we fell apart the following season. Retsos was a young lad, with loads of potential, who we could have moulded and developed into a more technically gifted version of Chris Basham. Instead, we loaned him in for the sake of a quarter of an hour of match time.
 
I posted this elsewhere about our so called 'culture'

'I'm more and more of the opinion that the 'culture' that is over used in terms of our set up was far more about indivdual culture than a club culture. JOC, Enda, GB2 (RIP), Bash, Egan, Didzy and Norwood made it happen week after week and recovered to go again.

They would smash our current team into the middle of next week, if it were possible to play them against each other.'

Wilder's used it as a deflection for years now and the base suck it up.

'Over, round or through' and 'running around' are kids football basics.

Its a load of boll*cks.
 
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