Scougall

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Barney said:
One did 6 places shitter than the other..... :)
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....with the other ones shit. :)

Anyway - it's been a horror show for years - and at last we've got chance to sweep away bad rubbish.

Over to Wilder.

UTB
 
Barney said:
Clough - squad full of shit - 5th.
Adkins - squad full of same shit + 5 of his own signings - 11th.

Who did shitter? I know, I know.

:)
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Minus Murphy who would've gained us more points meaning we'd have finished higher than we did under Clough. We could go on and on if we really wanted too.

McCabe is still here though and we still have a club to support. :)
 
alcoblade said:
Let's examine these foundations he was laying;

Mark Howard
Bob Harris,
Harrison McGahey
Jay McEveley
Florent Cuvelier,
Ryan Flynn (Extension)
Jamal Campbell-Ryce.
Kieron Freeman
Kieran Wallace
James Wallace
Stefan Scougall
Connor Sammon

And let's also give credit to others who he let add to our wonderful base, Chris Porter's contract extension and a host of other names so dismal they escape me.

To a man, all off to footballing oblivion.

UTB
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I would say if you add Billy Sharp and John Brayford to that squad with a couple of loans a decent manager should get promoted from this division
 
sitwell said:
I would say if you add Billy Sharp and John Brayford to that squad with a couple of loans a decent manager should get promoted from this division
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Wow, just ......wow!

Let's leave it there then (and I'll sit back an watch the football world judge). :)
 
wizadry said:
Minus Murphy who would've gained us more points meaning we'd have finished higher than we did under Clough. We could go on and on if we really wanted too.

McCabe is still here though and we still have a club to support. :)
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You can just as easily say that Billy Sharp and his 20 odd goals didn't play for Clough.
 
sitwell said:
Just one more :) Do you think apart from Wigan anyone in the league has a stronger squad ?
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I'm not one for knowing much about other teams Sitters - honestly. I do know that these players will leave for footballing oblivion.

From a value for money standpoint, it's an astonishingly bad squad. Brayford adds enormously to that bad statistic. But by general third division standards, I'd say it's just.....third division.

UTB
 
sitwell said:
Didn't we get in the play offs when Clough left. We were fucking miles off when Adkins left , in a far worst state ,I thought a manager was supposed to manage ,Adkins just mis-managed and caused problems for himself.
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Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.
 



sitwell said:
What a brilliant reasoned post ,really added to the debate we were having ffs :rolleyes:
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Sorry , but I do seriously wonder if one of us is on drugs because we see things so differently. To me Clough was severely limited tactically, couldn't see the deficiencies in the team he had assembled ( Centre Halves particularly) and was awful in the transfer market. His legacy was a crop of crocks and five foot eight inch mediocre footballers, an empty transfer kitty and a club with dressing room problems. I have watched Coutts over and over and cannot for the life of me see what you see in the bloke - he has some skill, was good before he got injured and has never put his heart into playing in an SUFC shirt. I'll shut up now because I have had a beer and I have no wish to fall out with anyone.
 
Cyprus Blade said:
Sorry , but I do seriously wonder if one of us is on drugs because we see things so differently. To me Clough was severely limited tactically, couldn't see the deficiencies in the team he had assembled ( Centre Halves particularly) and was awful in the transfer market. His legacy was a crop of crocks and five foot eight inch mediocre footballers, an empty transfer kitty and a club with dressing room problems. I have watched Coutts over and over and cannot for the life of me see what you see in the bloke - he has some skill, was good before he got injured and has never put his heart into playing in an SUFC shirt. I'll shut up now because I have had a beer and I have no wish to fall out with anyone.
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A good centre forward (Billy) and a couple of decent centre backs which he obviously knew about would have been acquired in the summer I believe ,and a captain replacement for Doyle ,the players were playing for him don't get thrown by how they became under Adkins ,I seriously think he knew what he needed but had to wait for the right players to become available and we would have been much stronger. His man management was good ,look at the season before ,when we also played with flair.
 
i would give scoug's another chance, Done I would not get rid of. Adkins played him out of position, he has goals in him, proven
 
sitwell said:
the players were playing for him don't get thrown by how they became under Adkins
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I wouldn't want to defend Adkins, but I disagree that the players were playing for Clough in the end. The first season Clough did what he does best - make do, three wheels on my wagon, someone else's players etc. Plus he got the loan players (Coady was already here). 2014-15 was his team. Don't get thrown by the cup run. Where it matters, in the league, those players did not perform. In the end the players looked scared to try anything half the time and the football was boringly dire, mechanical and unincisive.

Clough's pursuit of O'Grady was at least on a par with the Adkins and Burn scenario and he did nothing to solve the centre half problem created after he fell out with Collins and Butler. The loss of the loan players from the previous season was a problem. Without Maguire it became a massive problem which only got worse with whatever happened between Clough, Butler and Collins. I don't pretend to know what it was, but something self-evidently did. It was Clough's job to sort it. He didn't. Instead we bought a full-back for an excessive amount for this division. Clough's answer for this season was rumoured to be signing another Derby crock as CH (Barker). Nothing has been said about any other buy's Clough intended other than that he extended McEveley's contract and set up the loan signing of not Billy, but Sammon. At least Edgar was fit enough to play - unlike Coutts, Higdon and Wallace -when signed.

As for the players playing for Clough, we ended the season with 4 points out of the last 15. Were they playing for him in the draws with Crawley, Scunthorpe,Oldham and Chesterfield - the home defeats to Crewe, Fleetwood and Peterborough and the awful,awful display away at Yeovil? Then came the farce of the play-offs where Clough was forced to play the 5'8" Alcock at CH because he had fallen out with his centre halves and Brayford was injured, losing to a team that went on to lose 4-0 in the play-off final.

Now is not the time to look back at Clough with rose-tinted specs. He is as much history as is Adkins.
 
Cyprus Blade said:
he did nothing to solve the centre half problem created after he fell out with Collins and Butler.
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I did a post on this a while back. While not bringing centre halfs in ultimately cost Clough, it's wrong to say he did 'nothing' to solve the centre half problem.

He didn't want to sell Maguire. Then there was some issue with Butler but in the games he did play he was awful. Collins started the season but played too deep against instructions at Chesterfield and Clough rightly jettisoned him because he was awful.

He brought in Paddy McCarthy who on paper was the leader at the back we needed but he was not up to standard. He then dropped Basham back and played him and McEverley CH. They had an excellent run and on here at the time many said it was a good CH partnership. So in January the need for a CH was not as crucial. Then McEverley lost form, we had to move Bash into midfield and Brayford got injured. We had no centre halves again.

He should have brought in another in the end but its not as simple as that as above. Clough knew (he said as much) that was the area he needed to strengthen in the summer. That Adkins didn't was an even bigger mistake as he had hindsight.
 
Cyprus Blade said:
I wouldn't want to defend Adkins, but I disagree that the players were playing for Clough in the end. The first season Clough did what he does best - make do, three wheels on my wagon, someone else's players etc. Plus he got the loan players (Coady was already here). 2014-15 was his team. Don't get thrown by the cup run. Where it matters, in the league, those players did not perform. In the end the players looked scared to try anything half the time and the football was boringly dire, mechanical and unincisive.

Clough's pursuit of O'Grady was at least on a par with the Adkins and Burn scenario and he did nothing to solve the centre half problem created after he fell out with Collins and Butler. The loss of the loan players from the previous season was a problem. Without Maguire it became a massive problem which only got worse with whatever happened between Clough, Butler and Collins. I don't pretend to know what it was, but something self-evidently did. It was Clough's job to sort it. He didn't. Instead we bought a full-back for an excessive amount for this division. Clough's answer for this season was rumoured to be signing another Derby crock as CH (Barker). Nothing has been said about any other buy's Clough intended other than that he extended McEveley's contract and set up the loan signing of not Billy, but Sammon. At least Edgar was fit enough to play - unlike Coutts, Higdon and Wallace -when signed.

As for the players playing for Clough, we ended the season with 4 points out of the last 15. Were they playing for him in the draws with Crawley, Scunthorpe,Oldham and Chesterfield - the home defeats to Crewe, Fleetwood and Peterborough and the awful,awful display away at Yeovil? Then came the farce of the play-offs where Clough was forced to play the 5'8" Alcock at CH because he had fallen out with his centre halves and Brayford was injured, losing to a team that went on to lose 4-0 in the play-off final.

Now is not the time to look back at Clough with rose-tinted specs. He is as much history as is Adkins.
Click to expand...
Perfect summary, well put.
 



Bladepicker said:
I did a post on this a while back. While not bringing centre halfs in ultimately cost Clough, it's wrong to say he did 'nothing' to solve the centre half problem.

He didn't want to sell Maguire. Then there was some issue with Butler but in the games he did play he was awful. Collins started the season but played too deep against instructions at Chesterfield and Clough rightly jettisoned him because he was awful.

He brought in Paddy McCarthy who on paper was the leader at the back we needed but he was not up to standard. He then dropped Basham back and played him and McEverley CH. They had an excellent run and on here at the time many said it was a good CH partnership. So in January the need for a CH was not as crucial. Then McEverley lost form, we had to move Bash into midfield and Brayford got injured. We had no centre halves again.

He should have brought in another in the end but its not as simple as that as above. Clough knew (he said as much) that was the area he needed to strengthen in the summer. That Adkins didn't was an even bigger mistake as he had hindsight.
Click to expand...
P
Bladepicker said:
I did a post on this a while back. While not bringing centre halfs in ultimately cost Clough, it's wrong to say he did 'nothing' to solve the centre half problem.

He didn't want to sell Maguire. Then there was some issue with Butler but in the games he did play he was awful. Collins started the season but played too deep against instructions at Chesterfield and Clough rightly jettisoned him because he was awful.

He brought in Paddy McCarthy who on paper was the leader at the back we needed but he was not up to standard. He then dropped Basham back and played him and McEverley CH. They had an excellent run and on here at the time many said it was a good CH partnership. So in January the need for a CH was not as crucial. Then McEverley lost form, we had to move Bash into midfield and Brayford got injured. We had no centre halves again.

He should have brought in another in the end but its not as simple as that as above. Clough knew (he said as much) that was the area he needed to strengthen in the summer. That Adkins didn't was an even bigger mistake as he had hindsight.
Click to expand...
perfect summary well put.
 
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