SCC accused of bias in WC bidding

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

The World Student Games, i was a helper for this at 13 years old and used to go up to Hyde Park flats (student flats) and help give the competitors directions although in reality it was two weeks of fucking about and not doing what i should have been.

I was involved too (though I'm a bit older than you). I know for a fact that in the original proposal, the stadium was to have been the existing Woodbourn Road track, with some modifications.

After the bid was won the organisers quickly announced that the Woodbourne Road track could not be developed and thus the Don Valley Stadium had to be built - at great cost as it turned out. The Woodbourn Road track was retained as the warm-up track.

The Council, and others, were seduced by the argument that the Games would bring in huge revenues from TV. In the event, no tv company was interested in an event that nobody in the UK had heard of. I think the organisers had to pay for tv coverage to be laid on.

The whole thing was a cross between a con and a cock-up. And the Sheffield ratepayers had to pick up the not inconsiderable tab.
 

I think the council has said no money is going to SWFC for ground improvements.

Do you believe that?

In 4 or 5 years time, when the council are stressing the benefit of Sheffield hosting WC games I don't think many people will be bothered if a couple of million goes that way (I know they need alot more than that). Hardly anyone votes anyway. There might be a few who object and vote differently, and quotes from today would get dragged up, but I would imagine the individuals involved will be different and times change.
 
On the Stadium development side I thought I read somewhere that the winning bidder would get a sizable grant to help finance the work.
 
Do you believe that?

In 4 or 5 years time, when the council are stressing the benefit of Sheffield hosting WC games I don't think many people will be bothered if a couple of million goes that way (I know they need alot more than that). Hardly anyone votes anyway. There might be a few who object and vote differently, and quotes from today would get dragged up, but I would imagine the individuals involved will be different and times change.

I think it would create major problems for the council if they turned round and changed their mind.
Assuming England gets it, they've got 7 and a bit years to do the ground.
I can't see public finances recovering for at least the first two of them for spending on a football ground being politically wise.
After that, who knows?
There's a good chance Wednesday will be in the Prem in the next few years and it would then pay for itself anyway.
 
The Council, and others, were seduced by the argument that the Games would bring in huge revenues from TV. In the event, no tv company was interested in an event that nobody in the UK had heard of. I think the organisers had to pay for tv coverage to be laid on.

The whole thing was a cross between a con and a cock-up. And the Sheffield ratepayers had to pick up the not inconsiderable tab.

And this is nearly always the case - people are hopelessly optimistic with forecasts. Wind forward 20 odd years and replace the world student games with the world cup - the outcome will be the same - someone picking up an "unexpected" tab. Thankfully not us.

UTB
 
Do you believe that?

In 4 or 5 years time, when the council are stressing the benefit of Sheffield hosting WC games I don't think many people will be bothered if a couple of million goes that way (I know they need alot more than that). Hardly anyone votes anyway. There might be a few who object and vote differently, and quotes from today would get dragged up, but I would imagine the individuals involved will be different and times change.

In 4 or 5 years time, the general public will have been stuffed with endless tax rises, pay cuts, public service cuts, interest rate hikes and large increases in council tax.

Further increasing the council tax to host the pinnacle of a game that pays it's players hundreds of thousands of pounds every week will be about as popular as Liberace entering a blood donor's.

UTB
 
Do you believe that?

In 4 or 5 years time, when the council are stressing the benefit of Sheffield hosting WC games I don't think many people will be bothered if a couple of million goes that way (I know they need alot more than that). Hardly anyone votes anyway. There might be a few who object and vote differently, and quotes from today would get dragged up, but I would imagine the individuals involved will be different and times change.

That is a very good point but if a mass protest of say 20000 marched and made their feeling known that no public money should go to SWFC would we havwe an impact? and maybe people who dont like football but want the money spent on childrens services/disabled etc?
 
the reason council want SWFC is because it will generate more for everyone in sheffield than BDTBL will.
 
the reason council want SWFC is because it will generate more for everyone in sheffield than BDTBL will.

How so? Bramall lane would have held 44,000 - all headed for the center of town. How on earth would it generate more if they were headed to the outskirts of Barnsley?

UTB
 
On the Stadium development side I thought I read somewhere that the winning bidder would get a sizable grant to help finance the work.

From where? One of the FA's stipulations was that they wouldn't be issuing any grants.

UTB
 
I think the council has said no money is going to SWFC for ground improvements.

According to Wednesday, "The costs associated with these proposed developments do not impact upon the club's published business plan with the majority of the estimated £22m development coming from government grants backed up by increased club revenue streams".

They're apparently hoping to get government grants by making the stadium "green" and including "learning and enterprise zones" in the developments. So the council is probably telling the truth but it's still public/my money they're after.

For the increased club revenue streams, they're presumably reliant on Strafford wheezing up and down Penistone Road shouting "Roll up Dudes, we've got a stadium to build".
 
How so? Bramall lane would have held 44,000 - all headed for the center of town. How on earth would it generate more if they were headed to the outskirts of Barnsley?

UTB

they would be staying in sheffield and using taxi's and public transport to get to and from pigland instead of walking to BDTBL from hotels
 
they would be staying in sheffield and using taxi's and public transport to get to and from pigland instead of walking to BDTBL from hotels

You don't realy believe that line, surely?

It's much more likely that people would visit BDTBL, and stay for a while in the city. If it were at Swillsborough, it's much more likely that people would just drive to the ground from wherever.

Either way, there'd be little in it. I don't think either venue will generate significant money for the city. Whatever you hear muted, divide it by 10 and you'll be nearer.

UTB
 

There are lots of ways of speculating and the worst decision McCabe has made is getting rid of Walker.
Even with the rest of the upheaval, keeping him would have given us a potential chance of the lottery of the play-offs which in turn would have sold more season tickets.
Failure to do both is likely to cost as much as his transfer fee in lost attendance and associated commercial revenue in the short to medium term.
At the very least, sale should have been accompanied with a cast iron guarantee on the year loan.

I agree with you last comment as far as walker is concerned, but simply by the nature of the word RISK, and however calculated it is, its still a risk. Which can either pay off or not.

The same could be said for the signing of James Beattie. We signed him on a deal with vastly overpriced wages for the division on the hopes (RISK) that he would fire us to promotion. Granted it didnt work, and he eventually left, but even though the risk didnt pay off, imagine where we would have been without the goals he did score for us.

Thanks for your response, and excellent post.

Thanks :D

Has there been any promise of money from SCC, because I'm not aware of any?

See above

The part I'm interested in is the payback on the building. I think now the premiership froth has gone, it's clear we're miles away from this, and miles away from needing ground expansion. Even the kop, though basic, will suffice. So I can't see us, and hope we don't, start on any development until as was originally stated, we are "an established premiership club".

Given the above, the winning of the bid would push us to make upgrades that we would not otherwise be doing. Be it £10M (highly unlikely), £20M or £30M, It's additional debt to our existing £50M - and simply way too high for me.

So I think the upgrades would be for the WC alone. Assuming 3 sold out matches at £50 average ticket (and I don't think we'd sell out, or average £50 a ticket) then you have £6M of ticket revenue, a maximum I believe of 15% of which is available to the club. So we'd generate less than £1M, in my view at a massive push.

You can throw in hospitality, but in reality how much is this? In the most wild calculations., I can't see the whole lot giving us more that £2M. Yet it will cost us probably 10 times that, with an annual interests bill probably swallowing the one off windfall, hampering us for 20 more years thereafter..

If SCC pick up the tab, it's a different story. But I doubt very much they will - all bids were won based on no funding from the FA. I doubt the FA will be happy about speculative grants from the council, which will be vehemently opposed by 2/3Rd's or the city.

So for me losing the bid was a get of of the crap free card, and this action though morally justifiable, is just another route to the poor house and inevitable negative national publicity.

Let the porkers have it. We're well shot.

On the first point I dont think that anyone would disagree that at the minute the ground is sufficient for our needs. As for

"can't see us, and hope we don't, start on any development until as was originally stated, we are "an established premiership club"


It was never planned to wait until we were in the premier league. Although, given the current state of affairs on the pitch and the position within the league, i think that the development wont happen straight away; wether were a prem club or not this will happen within the next 18-24 months.

As for build cost, the development thats planned (Both Kop and South Stand) will push towards the £20m mark. But being as the South Stand was only based on winning the bid initially that will probably wait until towards the end of the planning period of five years, unless of course we were to establish ourselves in the top flight before then. On that basis the Kop works would add to the overall debt depending on how this would be structured may or maynot put us in a worse situation in the scheme of things.

Lastly the SCC wont pick up the tab fully, but as ive said above they have an interest in the schemes, and making sure that they go. The piggies is a high risk scheme which could eventually leave them in a worse position should they be unable to complete in time.

On the Stadium development side I thought I read somewhere that the winning bidder would get a sizable grant to help finance the work.

My understanding was that all of the venues would need to be "Self funded" and by that i mean without grants from the WC bid team. As i said before the sheffield bid was a joint venture between the SCC and the clubs and as such i would expect that the council will provide some (Albeit minimal) funding for either project.

the reason council want SWFC is because it will generate more for everyone in sheffield than BDTBL will.

How will it generate more to sheffield being as the stadium is practically "Out of town"

How so? Bramall lane would have held 44,000 - all headed for the center of town. How on earth would it generate more if they were headed to the outskirts of Barnsley?

Agreed, and in addition to my comment above, i think that a certain amount of naivity from our side expected that the decision would be based on this.

From where? One of the FA's stipulations was that they wouldn't be issuing any grants.

To my knowledge your quite correct

Although my posts may read otherwise, im not in full agreement that the works should go at the minute. Theres the argument that the WC bid coming to BDTBL may generate more business, of course theres the flip side that it could hurt us in the long run.

I agree that the foundation for the "Business" (because if you like it or not it is a business) has to be the team. Without this performing and making the concerted effort to move forward the crowds will reduce and the finances wont come in. That for me is ever decreasing circles that we cant get drawn into. By the same account the "business" also has to produce the cashflow that can allow the team to move forward.

Whichever way you look at it, its a very fine balance.
 
It was never planned to wait until we were in the premier league. Although, given the current state of affairs on the pitch and the position within the league, i think that the development wont happen straight away; wether were a prem club or not this will happen within the next 18-24 months.

AFAIA, the South Stand, by far the most expensive bit, was linked to "established premiership status". The Kop was linked to promotion looking like a certainty. Given this, the only reason we would be doing the upgrades now would be for the world cup.

I stand to be proved wrong (and mark this in your diary :D) but I will bare my arse on the town halls steps if either of these developments happens within 18 - 24 months. I think the financial ship has sailed too far. At least I hope it has.

UTB
 
I think it is probably worth remembering in all this that SCC weren`t the ones who made the decision on which ground was picked. That was the 2018 organising committee.

Personally I hope we do get the WC, but Sheffield isn`t eventually picked due to irreconcilable problems over at the Sty.

That would be funny...
 
I think it is probably worth remembering in all this that SCC weren`t the ones who made the decision on which ground was picked. That was the 2018 organising committee.

Personally I hope we do get the WC, but Sheffield isn`t eventually picked due to irreconcilable problems over at the Sty.

That would be funny...

I can see this coming true as well.

UTB

i think that may happen
 
According to Wednesday, "The costs associated with these proposed developments do not impact upon the club's published business plan with the majority of the estimated £22m development coming from government grants backed up by increased club revenue streams".

They're apparently hoping to get government grants by making the stadium "green" and including "learning and enterprise zones" in the developments. So the council is probably telling the truth but it's still public/my money they're after.

For the increased club revenue streams, they're presumably reliant on Strafford wheezing up and down Penistone Road shouting "Roll up Dudes, we've got a stadium to build".

They might be eligible for building a classroom though they will have to demonstrate need but if they pull off rebuilding stands on some kind of green ticket they'll deserve it.
Still think professional football clubs paying millions in wages will have all on to get public funding for essentially commercial development.
 
You don't realy believe that line, surely?

It's much more likely that people would visit BDTBL, and stay for a while in the city. If it were at Swillsborough, it's much more likely that people would just drive to the ground from wherever.

Either way, there'd be little in it. I don't think either venue will generate significant money for the city. Whatever you hear muted, divide it by 10 and you'll be nearer.

UTB

We are talking about foreign visitors who will be staying in hotels not locals
and divide what by 10
 
We are talking about foreign visitors who will be staying in hotels not locals
and divide what by 10

How many tickets will be given to foreigners - a quarter? How many will stay in Sheffield - Half of them? For how long - a night or two?

It'll raise a few million for the city.

UTB

PS - Divide any forecast you see for money generation by "10" - or whatever - the real number will be nowheer near the forecast.
 
Believe me Len I want to agree with you and desperately do not want any public money going on football grounds when shcools and hospitals are falling down.

However, a huge problem with life in general is that a givernment wants to be popular, the politicians want to deliver a world cup and get all the freebies. I don't see how it is possible to host a world cup without public money these days - FIFA regulations stipulate there must be the shiny new grounds - and I think they'll get round the public concern by dressing it up as green nonsense and by insisting the country benefits from WC.
 
No grants then it won't happen at Swillsborough. Even with 'match funding' they would be luck to scrape together £250K.

Why waste any effort on questioning SCC? Sort the team McC.
 

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Back
Top Bottom