Sander berge

[CaptainMorgans]

He surely won't go to Brugge to play in the Belgian league. So surprised he and his agent entertained that. His next move should be a mistable PL side.

 

[WORKSOPBLADE]

Looked chuffed when the fans sang “his” song at end

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

Just googled Sander Berge

 

[Sheffsteel]

What has the level got to do with anything? Can only judge a player in the top division? Mate wtf are you on about?

Thats makes zero sense. The level someone plays at has everything to do with it....when judging the best players we've ever had.

If level has nothing to do with it then surely Mark Duffy or Alex Sabella are the best players United have had ever.
Then you realise one never played in the top flight in his career and the other struggled in the top flight,
So using logic these can't be better than the dozens of United players who have been good in the PL.

Berge is an very good player with even bigger potential (needs to do what he did for our 2nd goal more using his physicality and being positive to dribble and shoot)
but he needs to deliver in the Premier League or Champions League on a regular basis before he can be considered one of our greatest players. You suspect Berge himself would be embarrassed to receive such premature plaudits of greatness.

 

[Iceybabey]

Sander showing love to the fans on his most recent instagram story. What a bloke.

 

[SwindonBladeJnr]

Thats makes zero sense. The level someone plays at has everything to do with it....when judging the best players we've ever had.

If level has nothing to do with it then surely Mark Duffy or Alex Sabella are the best players United have had ever.
Then you realise one never played in the top flight in his career and the other struggled in the top flight,
So using logic these can't be better than the dozens of United players who have been good in the PL.

Berge is an very good player with even bigger potential but he needs to deliver in the Premier League or Champions League on a regular basis
before he can be considered one of our greatest players. You suspect Berge himself would be embarrassed to receive such premature plaudits.

That's not correct.

If you drop Kevin De Bruyne into the Championship, it doesn't make all players playing in the Premier League better than him, does it?

The level that a player has performed at is obviously a factor to consider but the player's ability is the player's ability at whichever level they play at.

Not sure why he would need to deliver in the Champions League to prove himself as one of our greatest players either? That's a pretty high bar to set someone playing for us when we struggle to string a few years together in the top flight, let alone Europe.

(I don't even agree he is one of our greatest players at this point, just think that there are some holes in your 'logic')

 

[Sheffsteel]

That's not correct.

If you drop Kevin De Bruyne into the Championship, it doesn't make all players playing in the Premier League better than him, does it?

The level that a player has performed at is obviously a factor to consider but the player's ability is the player's ability at whichever level they play at.

See what you mean but De Bruyne is a tried and tested consistent superstar in the PL where as Berge was average when there with us.
Although to be fair it was a struggling team with low confidence through out the club.

Also Berge's average performances were when he played him as a holding/ defensive midifielder.
However this season Hecky has encouraged him to be more offensive and use his size to dribble past players and shoot.
Agree he's now looking much better and could be a threat even at PL level, he could be great.

Just prefer to wait and see how he performs in the PL before I dish out any "greatest player" plaudits,.
My view is that both Berge and N'Dieye and for that matter Ahmedhodzic have the potential to be in the conversation for greatest modern players.

 

[HarryHaslam]

Thats makes zero sense. The level someone plays at has everything to do with it....when judging the best players we've ever had.

If level has nothing to do with it then surely Mark Duffy or Alex Sabella are the best players United have had ever.
Then you realise one never played in the top flight in his career and the other struggled in the top flight,
So using logic these can't be better than the dozens of United players who have been good in the PL.

Berge is an very good player with even bigger potential but he needs to deliver in the Premier League or Champions League on a regular basis
before he can be considered one of our greatest players. You suspect Berge himself would be embarrassed to receive such premature plaudits.

It makes perfect sense, every team even those from the lower leagues will have their greatest ever players, do you think the fans of Rotherham don’t have their greatest ever players because they never played at the top level consistently against the top players? Of course they do, every team does… and as for doing it against champions league and premier league regularly before he can be considered one of Uniteds greats is pure nonsense, we wouldn’t be even make an all time greatest 11 going by your criteria. There will be plenty of players throughout time that our fans will say are some of our greats who never ever played in the top flight.

As for Mark Duffy, yes he’s a fans favourite, was brilliant for us but not one Blade would say he’s one of our greatest players for Christs sake. And only a mad man would actual say if it wasn’t for the level he is quite possibly our greatest player along with Sabella (who is not the greatest also), you clearly don’t know much about football so I will bow out of this now because it has got very silly.

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

Wonderfully humble young bloke.

 

[SwindonBladeJnr]

See what you mean but De Bruyne is a tried and tested consistent superstar in the PL where as Berge was average when there with us.
Although to be fair it was a struggling team with low confidence through out the club.

Also Berge's average performances were when he played him as a holding/ defensive midifielder.
However this season Hecky has encouraged him to be more offensive and use his size to dribble past players and shoot.
Agree he's now looking much better and could be a threat even at PL level, he could be great.

Just prefer to wait and see how he performs in the PL before I dish out any "greatest player" plaudits,.
My view is that both Berge and N'Dieye and for that matter Ahmedhodzic have the potential to be in the conversation for greatest modern players.

I'm talking in terms of ability, not where they have performed.

This is part of the subjectiveness in such an argument. We can all use different ways to measure.

Just making the point that in terms of ability, it is entirely possible that a player playing in the second tier could be better than a player playing in the first tier. In itself, I don't think it is a reason to discount a player from the conversation.

 

[Bladesince59]

Berge will be great in the PL.


With us next year.

 

[Guesty]

That's not correct.

If you drop Kevin De Bruyne into the Championship, it doesn't make all players playing in the Premier League better than him, does it?

The level that a player has performed at is obviously a factor to consider but the player's ability is the player's ability at whichever level they play at.

Not sure why he would need to deliver in the Champions League to prove himself as one of our greatest players either? That's a pretty high bar to set someone playing for us when we struggle to string a few years together in the top flight, let alone Europe.

(I don't even agree he is one of our greatest players at this point, just think that there are some holes in your 'logic')

That's a hypothetical though. Kevin de Bruyne doesn't play in the Championship because he's many levels above that. Those United players played for us in the lower leagues because that were their level, or close to it. I don't think it's outrageous to suggest that someone who didn't pull up many trees for us in the top level is not our greatest ever player, especially considering there's plenty of players who did.

 

[SwindonBladeJnr]

That's a hypothetical though. Kevin de Bruyne doesn't play in the Championship because he's many levels above that. Those United players played for us in the lower leagues because that were their level, or close to it. I don't think it's outrageous to suggest that someone who didn't pull up many trees for us in the top level is not our greatest ever player, especially considering there's plenty of players who did.

That's not my argument. Particularly given that I don't even agree that Berge is in the conversation for one of our best ever players.

Simply pointing out that it is entirely possible for a player to play at a lower level than others and still be better than them.

 

[Frank the tank]

See what you mean but De Bruyne is a tried and tested consistent superstar in the PL where as Berge was average when there with us.
Although to be fair it was a struggling team with low confidence through out the club.

Also Berge's average performances were when he played him as a holding/ defensive midifielder.
However this season Hecky has encouraged him to be more offensive and use his size to dribble past players and shoot.
Agree he's now looking much better and could be a threat even at PL level, he could be great.

Just prefer to wait and see how he performs in the PL before I dish out any "greatest player" plaudits,.
My view is that both Berge and N'Dieye and for that matter Ahmedhodzic have the potential to be in the conversation for greatest modern players.

Can't really agree with any of that verge played mostly on the right hand side under wilder and had some really good games as well as some poor ones

 

[Guesty]

That's not my argument. Particularly given that I don't even agree that Berge is in the conversation for one of our best ever players.

Simply pointing out that it is entirely possible for a player to play at a lower level than others and still be better than them.

OK but Berge has played and the top level and categorically did not play as well as

Deane
Currie
Woodward
Dunne
Pace
Needham etc etc

He's playing brilliantly now, and who knows if we get back to the top flight and he's still with us he might do so there, but he hasn't where plenty have. In fact I'd say that it doesn't matter how well he plays at this level - we've had players tear it up in the top flight before so until he does that he can't be classed as one of the best.

With de Bruyne, say, if he dropped a league for whatever reason we'd know he was one of the best players in the world, playing Championship games doesn't mean he isn't - we've seen what he can do in the top flight. However if he'd played his whole career in the Championship no-one would be calling him one of the world's best because we hadn't seen what he can do against the best. He would have it in him but he wouldn't have shown it.

 

[SwindonBladeJnr]

OK but Berge has played and the top level and categorically did not play as well as

Deane
Currie
Woodward
Dunne
Pace
Needham etc etc

He's playing brilliantly now, and who knows if we get back to the top flight and he's still with us he might do so there, but he hasn't where plenty have. In fact I'd say that it doesn't matter how well he plays at this level - we've had players tear it up in the top flight before so until he does that he can't be classed as one of the best.

With de Bruyne, say, if he dropped a league for whatever reason we'd know he was one of the best players in the world, playing Championship games doesn't mean he isn't - we've seen what he can do in the top flight. However if he'd played his whole career in the Championship no-one would be calling him one of the world's best because we hadn't seen what he can do against the best. He would have it in him but he wouldn't have shown it.

I think the point I'm making has been missed mate. This doesn't address the argument I am (trying, unsuccessfully by the looks of it) making.

 

[Guesty]

I think the point I'm making has been missed mate. This doesn't address the argument I am (trying, unsuccessfully by the looks of it) making.

What I mean is a player in the second tier level could be better than one in the first, but if they haven't played there, or like Berge were largely mediocre when they were there, there would be no way of knowing.

To bring that back to the original point, which I know wasn't yours, lots of United players have done it in the top flight. Berge has played there, but didn't. Therefore I really don't think one could call him one of our greatest ever.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Kisses the badge but if Club Brugge come back in for him with the right bid in January he’s off

I said I thought that would be held against him. What do you think it means? That he’ll stay with us forever to the detriment of his career or life?
He was reacting to the ovation he was getting and reciprocating the affection.
Ndiaye also kissed the badge today it doesn’t mean he’ll never leave us either? Of course not.

 

[SwindonBladeJnr]

What I mean is a player in the second tier level could be better than one in the first, but if they haven't played there, or like Berge were largely mediocre when they were there, there would be no way of knowing.

To bring that back to the original point, which I know wasn't yours, lots of United players have done it in the top flight. Berge has played there, but didn't. Therefore I really don't think one could call him one of our greatest ever.

This is thing though; because there is no way of knowing, you cannot discount it. Its perfectly fine if a fan believes the player in tier 2 is better than the one in tier 1 - it's the right to that opinion I was kind of coming in to bat for. You may not agree with that opinion, but it doesn't mean the opinion lacks any logical basis (which is what I originally responded to).

 

[Guesty]

This is thing though; because there is no way of knowing, you cannot discount it. Its perfectly fine if a fan believes the player in tier 2 is better than the one in tier 1 - it's the right to that opinion I was kind of coming in to bat for. You may not agree with that opinion, but it doesn't mean the opinion lacks any logical basis (which is what I originally responded to).

The original point was that for a player to be considered our greatest, he'd have to perform regularly in the Premier League. Given that we have had players do that in the past, I'd say that was a perfectly reasonable assertion. That's not to say that Berge can't be considered better than current PL players, or top flight United players from the past, of course he is. I do honestly believe that it discounts him from being considered among our greatest ever, at least yet.

 

[Sheffsteel]

It makes perfect sense, every team even those from the lower leagues will have their greatest ever players, do you think the fans of Rotherham don’t have their greatest ever players because they never played at the top level consistently against the top players? Of course they do, every team does… and as for doing it against champions league and premier league regularly before he can be considered one of Uniteds greats is pure nonsense, we wouldn’t be even make an all time greatest 11 going by your criteria. There will be plenty of players throughout time that our fans will say are some of our greats who never ever played in the top flight.

As for Mark Duffy, yes he’s a fans favourite, was brilliant for us but not one Blade would say he’s one of our greatest players for Christs sake. And only a mad man would actual say if it wasn’t for the level he is quite possibly our greatest player along with Sabella (who is not the greatest also), you clearly don’t know much about football so I will bow out of this now because it has got very silly.

Maybe you don't realise United have spent many seasons in the top flight.....Rotherham have never been in the top flight...so their best ever player will be from the 2nd tier.

Not sure if you are aware of this but even average players in the PL tend to be far better than top players in the lower divisions.
We bought McBurnie, Brewster, Freeman and even Callum Robinson because they excelled in the Championship.
None of these even managed to be average Premier League standard.

You can say Berge is a fan favourite but it's stupid to suggest he's our best ever player.
Let's wait to see how he performs in the PL?
or maybe you'll say he could even struggle in the PL but he'll still be out best ever player based on......I'm not sure.

I'm a big fan of Berge and agree he has the potential to be a top player but he's not done anything at the top level yet.
So he's no where near Currie, Deane standard....these achieved and stood out against the top players in the game for several seasons.

 

[Sheffsteel]

I'm talking in terms of ability, not where they have performed.

This is part of the subjectiveness in such an argument. We can all use different ways to measure.

Just making the point that in terms of ability, it is entirely possible that a player playing in the second tier could be better than a player playing in the first tier. In itself, I don't think it is a reason to discount a player from the conversation.

Agree based on judgement but it doesn't happen very often.
I suppose a good example is Ivan Toney ploughing his trade doing really well at Peterborough in league 1.
No Premier league club was remotely interested in him because.....well it's league 1.

Then Brenford sell..was it Maupay or Watkins for millions and buy Toney as a replacement.....we all laughed
but now who's laughing, There's even whispers that Ivan Toney might break into the England team
and just shows there must still be outstanding talent in the lower divisions.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Berge will be great in the PL.


With us next year.

Hope so......agree he has the potential to be a top player in the PL.

 

[HarryHaslam]

Maybe you don't realise United have spent many seasons in the top flight.....Rotherham have never been in the top flight...so their best ever player will be from the 2nd tier.

Not sure if you are aware of this but average players in the PL tend to be far better than top players in the lower divisions.

We've seen McBurnie, Brewster, Freeman and even Callum Robinson excel in the Championship.
None of these even managed to be average Premier League standard.

You can say Berge is a fan favourite but it's stupid to suggest he's our best ever player.
Let's wait to see how he performs in the PL?
or maybe you'll say he could even struggle in the PL but he'll still be out best ever player based on......I'm not sure.

What are you talking about? Because Rotherham have only played in the 2nd tier as their highest level you assume their fans will only pick players who played for them in the 2nd tier, they will have fans who pick players from the 3rd and 4th tier as some of their greatest players, it’s called opinions. Our fans will have seen players in a United shirt who the think is up there with the best, Sabella who I mentioned, Edwards who you mentioned saying he shouldn’t be considered, your way off as there will be a ton of blades of a certain age who will say Edwards as one of the greatest Blades strikers they have seen playing for us, again it’s called having an Opinion.

Oh and who said anything about him being our best ever player? I didn’t so not sure where you have come up with that one.

But what I did actual say is I believe he is one of the greatest. What I should have added is “in my opinion” “one of the greatest that I have personally seen” maybe then you would have not taken offence. I’d wager I’d laugh my bollocks off at some of your “greatest” blades, as you would mine, it’s opinions and I’m not sure why this site is rife with people who do not like opinions that are different to their own. And as for waiting to see how he performs in the PL, I’ve seen it, I’ve seen him in the championship also, seen him for Norway, I think he is an unbelievable talent who oozes class and on ability is one of the greatest I’ve seen in a Blades shirt.

 

[Sheffsteel]

.But what I did actual say is I believe he is one of the greatest. What I should have added is “in my opinion” “one of the greatest that I have personally seen” maybe then you would have not taken offence. I’d wager I’d laugh my bollocks off at some of your “greatest” blades, as you would mine, it’s opinions and I’m not sure why this site is rife with people who do not like opinions that are different to their own. And as for waiting to see how he performs in the PL, I’ve seen it, I’ve seen him in the championship also, seen him for Norway, I think he is an unbelievable talent who oozes class and on ability is one of the greatest I’ve seen in a Blades shirt.

Fair point...it's semantics.....the misunderstandings of trying to communicate on a forum.
Agree with your complements on Berge....he does ooze class....my mates says he like a Rolls Royce
but I think that due to his effortless graceful running and passing style. He doesn't seem to need to try ha ha.

I'm just hoping there's substance (together with his fantastic style) when we're back in the PL next season.

 

[HarryHaslam]

Agree based on judgement but it doesn't happen very often.
I suppose a good example is Ivan Toney ploughing his trade doing really well at Peterborough in league 1.
No Premier league club was remotely interested in him because.....well it's league 1.

Then Brenford sell..was it Maupay or Watkins for millions and buy Toney as a replacement.....we all laughed
but now who's laughing, There's even whispers that Ivan Toney might break into the England team
and just shows there must still be outstanding talent in the lower divisions.

Question for you, answer honestly please.

Peterborough yo yo between the leagues, played in the Championship on occasions. So Ivan Toney will not be on any fans list as one of the greatest strikers they have seen in a Peterborough shirt because he was only in League 1 with them. All their greatest players will have played in the Championship for them.

That is your criteria, if you answer honestly you will realise your criteria is nonsense.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Question for you, answer honestly please.

Peterborough yo yo between the leagues, played in the Championship on occasions. So Ivan Toney will not be on any fans list as one of the greatest strikers they have seen in a Peterborough shirt because he was only in League 1 with them. All their greatest players will have played in the Championship for them.

That is your criteria, if you answer honestly you will realise your criteria is nonsense.

You would think Peterborough fans would say one of their best players is Toney but that because he's been so successful for Brentford and might play for England.

I suppose it's like us saying Kyle Walker and Harry Maguire are 2 of our best ever defenders.
We only say this because they've both become top internationals.

It raises another issue when deciding who the best are.....does it need to be how they performed with us or what they went on to become?

 

[coaxingstar71]

Definite 50 pager incoming.....

 

[HarryHaslam]

You would think Peterborough fans would say one of their best players is Toney but that because he's been so successful for Brentford and might play for England.

I suppose it's like us saying Kyle Walker and Harry Maguire are 2 of our best ever defenders.
We only say this because they've both become top internationals.

It raises another issue when deciding who the best are.....does it need to be how they performed with us or what they went on to become?

Exactly Peterborough fans would say he is, but not because of what he has done afterwards it’s how he performed in a Peterborough shirt.

And yes it’s when they are with us, in a Blades shirt. Personally I don’t judge our greatest players on what they did when they left us, for example if that was the case our greatest two centre half’s would possible be Harry Maguire and Tri Dellas, both great players but neither would be in anyones list of the greatest players they saw in a Blades shirt though. But again it’s all about opinion’s so maybe some would judge their greatest players on what they did in their career as opposed to me who judges just in a Blades shirt.

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

I said I thought that would be held against him. What do you think it means? That he’ll stay with us forever to the detriment of his career or life?
He was reacting to the ovation he was getting and reciprocating the affection.
Ndiaye also kissed the badge today it doesn’t mean he’ll never leave us either? Of course not.

I was only joking