Sam Graham

[Pinchy]

But you've already decided they aren't good enough? If they are a hidden gem and have the quality, why spend money on another CB?

There are no hidden gems. You're getting carried away about a 16 year old after a friendly against Stockbridge. Tufty has to deal with Championship football in 3 weeks; not 3 years. Youth should be picked if good enough; so should veterans. There's really nothing controversial about it.

Only in S2 infants...

 

[blade too long]

a 21st century footballer, sounds impressive

 

[Pinchy]

I really don't value your opinion to get into it

No? I've got all the young tyros right so far. We'd have a front two of Ironside and De Juve left to you Sheffieldy Sheffielders...

I'll try to be a little more parochial in future and ignore the essential question of whether a player is good enough in favour of where he comes from.

Givemallarun.

 

[Boxer Blade]

It's written all over him, he's 16 FFS!

Cheers Foxy

The kit looks good as well!

 

[Liaminho9]

There are no hidden gems. You're getting carried away about a 16 year old after a friendly against Stockbridge. Tufty has to deal with Championship football in 3 weeks; not 3 years. Youth should be picked if good enough; so should veterans. There's really nothing controversial about it.

Only in S2 infants...

I've never said they are hidden gems, i said 'if'.
The point i'm making is you've already decided they aren't good enough without even giving them a chance.

 

[Grappler]

View attachment 28445

It's good that they put his age on his shorts, to remind us how old he is

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

Proper black boots! Gonna be some player!

That's the bit which I was most encouraged by! None of this mucking about with yellow, orange or pink boots like some tart.

 

[coolhandluke]

Players like graham and Semple (when fit) are the reason we should only be looking to loan a cb for this season to compliment the signing of Stearman.

I agree to an extent , but as Pinchy says .......

No they are not. We need the best players we can possibly get as soon as we can get them. If Tufty can get a quality centre-back in he should do so. We're not a crêche.

And whilst i do agree with Pinchy i do think we need to tread carefully here . The good young uns coming through from the Academy need to see that there is a realistic opportunity to get a chance in the first team if their attitude and skill set are up to the level required by the Manager . We really do need to fully establish a clear " pathway " for the Academy prospects and not just talk about it . A clear pathway will serve to attract more good young prospects and ( hopefully ) convince many of the good young prospects here that their future , certainly in the short to mid term would be better spent at the club than languishing in somebody elses ' reserves ' for the foreseeable future . It could , of course , save us a few bob in terms of recruitment too . Its a win win situation

For what its worth im of the opinion that the current method of loaning the best of the Academy out to get experience is the right way forward . But , there should be a clear strategy set out governing what we do with these players . 12 months out on loan should be enough to gauge whether or not an individual has what it takes to challenge for inclusion in our matchday squad . If they arent then ship them out .

 

[Enigmatic]

No? I've got all the young tyros right so far. We'd have a front two of Ironside and De Juve left to you Sheffieldy Sheffielders...

I'll try to be a little more parochial in future and ignore the essential question of whether a player is good enough in favour of where he comes from.

Givemallarun.

You're as ignorant as you are arrogant. I suppose you said the same about giving game time to Walker, Maguire or Naughton. You are correct in saying that the vast majority don't make it. However, there's only one way you can really tell if a player will make it professionally, and that's by giving them game time in professional football. As a club, like it or not, we place emphasis on bringing through our own players. This is evidenced by our spending on the academy, and the players we have subsequently brought through in recent years. In order to keep doing so, we need to provide the young players possessing ability and raw potential with a platform upon which they can start their careers. Granted, they won't be the finished article at first, and might not be as effective as an older pro initially. But with more game time, they can really kick on and become important first team players. And if they outgrow the club, they fund more first team purchases. Don't be shortsighted.

 

[Slim Man]

I've never said they are hidden gems, i said 'if'.
The point i'm making is you've already decided they aren't good enough without even giving them a chance.

He can't help himself

 

[EddieColquhoun]

he's in the year group that will all have turned 17 by the end of august. So he may still be 16 but its unlikely

His Royal Tuftyness said on Thursday he was only 16 so this makes it slightly more likely.

 

[BushBlade]

The likelihood is that for the next couple of years we'll have to sell players to fund the wage bill of the senior players. Otherwise, we'll struggle to keep them and we'll be like the Southampton of the championship, selling two or three of our best players to clubs higher in the league every season because we can't offer anything like the wages they want. In simple terms, we'll be selling a Brooks to an Everton to stop a Fleck going to a Villa.

It will piss people off and they'll cry but that's where we are.

 

[mancunianblade]

Cant loan out someone that young can you? if you can get him out and get him ready. to be fair to Pinchy the starting 11 needs to be as strong as it can possibly be, however the match squad should have room for youth for experience purposes and I believe this now maybe FL rules too. If we are coasting then there is no reason to give the young lads game time, however 10 mins a month is hardly comparative to 90mins week in week out in the conference, league two or league one.

 

[Slim Man]

He turns 17 next month, he can be loaned from then. Get him to the bottom of League 2, we cover all of his wages if he plays and they pay them if he doesn't. Win win.

His physical attributes seem ready set for first team football, just got to see if his football brain is there... and the mental toughness.

 

[BushBlade]

He turns 17 next month, he can be loaned from then. Get him to the bottom of League 2, we cover all of his wages if he plays and they pay them if he doesn't. Win win.

His physical attributes seem ready set for first team football, just got to see if his football brain is there... and the mental toughness.

I disagree. No need yet. He'll get far better coaching with us than with a L2 team. He's still got plenty to learn and he can do that in the u23s. If he excels in the first half of the season, then consider loaning him out.

 

[coolhandluke]

Cant loan out someone that young can you? if you can get him out and get him ready. to be fair to Pinchy the starting 11 needs to be as strong as it can possibly be, however the match squad should have room for youth for experience purposes and I believe this now maybe FL rules too. If we are coasting then there is no reason to give the young lads game time, however 10 mins a month is hardly comparative to 90mins week in week out in the conference, league two or league one.

For me what's happening with Ben Whiteman is something of a blue print of what should happen going forward . He showed early promise and got the odd run out for the first team but as soon as wilder came in he loaned him out to Mansfield for 6 months . He really impressed there and consequently wilder loaned him out for another 6 months at Donny Rovers in a league higher .

When he comes back from there the hard decisions need to be made . The way I see it there's 3 choices available . 1 ) He's deemed surplus to requirements and he's put on the list . 2 ) With the jury still out he's loaned out again for another 6 months in league 1 . 3 ) Hes included in the first team set up with a contract that reflects this .

I'm firmly of the belief that there has been a real desire at the Club to create a clearly defined ' pathway ' of progression for the Academy but with the managerial merry go round of the last 6 or 7 years it's been virtually impossible to set up and maintain. This is one of the reasons why the thought of wilder being here for sometime yet really excited me . I get the feeling that with him controlling everything from the Academy right through to the first team we'll finally see our Academy prospects really flourishing in the first team . Now that's something we would all love to see .

We will lose one or two along the way whilst we aren't in the PL and there's nothing we can realistically do to prevent that . But with Wilder pulling the strings and a clearly defined progressive development plan in place maybe we'll begin to see our Academy starlets thinking it's actually in their best interests to stay here .

Time will tell .

 

[larkymasher]

I understand both sides of the argument for giving youth some sort of game time but also when Pinchy says they must be good enough.

SUFC are not and have not been in a position to risk young players in the first team for a good few years. It was Semple last Summer, Slater at Christmas and now Graham this Summer.

All three clearly have a great chance to progress into a first team player but at 16, 17, 18 years old it is a lot to ask of any kid. Just ask Reed.

The club clearly are in a position now to give these boys, and others Ty Smith, Gilmoor, Hallam all time to develop. Whether that be with our 23s or on loan, maybe starting in the National League then L2.

As an example, last year the club was asked if a National League side could take Semple on loan for 6 months. SUFC refused as they wanted him playing for our 23s and being looked after at our club. I would suggest this is what will happen to Graham and Slater. They will stay with us to develop.

We must also remember that it is all well and good saying send these you lads out on loan to a L2 side, but L2 is still professional football and even a lower L2 side would feel that taking a 17 18 year centre back on loan would be a big gamble.

Please Please just let these lads progress and when CW and only CW thinks they are ready then we will see them in the first team.

 

[larkymasher]

For me what's happening with Ben Whiteman is something of a blue print of what should happen going forward . He showed early promise and got the odd run out for the first team but as soon as wilder came in he loaned him out to Mansfield for 6 months . He really impressed there and consequently wilder loaned him out for another 6 months at Donny Rovers in a league higher .

When he comes back from there the hard decisions need to be made . The way I see it there's 3 choices available . 1 ) He's deemed surplus to requirements and he's put on the list . 2 ) With the jury still out he's loaned out again for another 6 months in league 1 . 3 ) Hes included in the first team set up with a contract that reflects this .

I'm firmly of the belief that there has been a real desire at the Club to create a clearly defined ' pathway ' of progression for the Academy but with the managerial merry go round of the last 6 or 7 years it's been virtually impossible to set up and maintain. This is one of the reasons why the thought of wilder being here for sometime yet really excited me . I get the feeling that with him controlling everything from the Academy right through to the first team we'll finally see our Academy prospects really flourishing in the first team . Now that's something we would all love to see .

We will lose one or two along the way whilst we aren't in the PL and there's nothing we can realistically do to prevent that . But with Wilder pulling the strings and a clearly defined progressive development plan in place maybe we'll begin to see our Academy starlets thinking it's actually in their best interests to stay here .

Time will tell .

A Top post Coolhand.

You have set out exactly what we should be looking to do with our kids. They need first team experience to help them develop. As you said Whiteman has started going out on loan at 20 years old.
CW will let them go on loan when he feels it will benefit them. If not they will progress with our 23s set up.

 

[coolhandluke]

I understand both sides of the argument for giving youth some sort of game time but also when Pinchy says they must be good enough.

SUFC are not and have not been in a position to risk young players in the first team for a good few years. It was Semple last Summer, Slater at Christmas and now Graham this Summer.

All three clearly have a great chance to progress into a first team player but at 16, 17, 18 years old it is a lot to ask of any kid. Just ask Reed.

The club clearly are in a position now to give these boys, and others Ty Smith, Gilmoor, Hallam all time to develop. Whether that be with our 23s or on loan, maybe starting in the National League then L2.

As an example, last year the club was asked if a National League side could take Semple on loan for 6 months. SUFC refused as they wanted him playing for our 23s and being looked after at our club. I would suggest this is what will happen to Graham and Slater. They will stay with us to develop.

We must also remember that it is all well and good saying send these you lads out on loan to a L2 side, but L2 is still professional football and even a lower L2 side would feel that taking a 17 18 year centre back on loan would be a big gamble.

Please Please just let these lads progress and when CW and only CW thinks they are ready then we will see them in the first team.

I agree to an extent larky but for me the only way we will really see if these lads have what it takes to flourish in the game is by seeing how they develop and perform in first team professional football .

Don't get me wrong here , whilst Graham is obviously far too young to loan out Semple should have gone out to league 2 . Yes he's only 18 but when he's head and shoulders above anyone else at that age playing for the U23's it's surely time for him to experience the game at a ptoffessional first team level .

For me if we have 6 or 7 academy prospects at the age of 20 or 21 floating around in the U23 set up then we've failed . At 20 - 21 a decision should have been made on whether or not they are good enough for the first team set up .

 

[EddieColquhoun]

. It was Semple last Summer, Slater at Christmas and now Graham this Summer.

Semple has been very unlucky to get injured. Wilder made encouraging noises about him this time last year.

 

[EddieColquhoun]

For me if we have 6 or 7 academy prospects at the age of 20 or 21 floating around in the U23 set up then we've failed . At 20 - 21 a decision should have been made on whether or not they are good enough for the first team set up .

Matt Lowton didn't have a sniff at the first team until this age and is a regular in the Prem.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

There are no hidden gems. You're getting carried away about a 16 year old after a friendly against Stockbridge. Tufty has to deal with Championship football in 3 weeks; not 3 years. Youth should be picked if good enough; so should veterans. There's really nothing controversial about it.

Only in S2 infants...

I presume the last line is a variant on your usual blanket insult for all Blades. You really should stop. Name us a set of fans of another club who would not like some of their own youngsters to make it through to the first team. What a lift Kane has given to Spurs. It doesn't mean we are all stupid and don't know that the numbers that come through are small; but it does reflect a love of the club and of the area. And do you know what effect Brexit will have on the recruitment of foreign players, and hence the demand for home-grown players?

 

[larkymasher]

Can i slao point out that last season was EELs first full season playing first team football. He was 23 year

I agree to an extent larky but for me the only way we will really see if these lads have what it takes to flourish in the game is by seeing how they develop and perform in first team professional football .

Don't get me wrong here , whilst Graham is obviously far too young to loan out Semple should have gone out to league 2 . Yes he's only 18 but when he's head and shoulders above anyone else at that age playing for the U23's it's surely time for him to experience the game at a ptoffessional first team level .

For me if we have 6 or 7 academy prospects at the age of 20 or 21 floating around in the U23 set up then we've failed . At 20 - 21 a decision should have been made on whether or not they are good enough for the first team set up .

In fairness to both Semple and the club his serious injury in February has probably held up a loan move until January.

That said i do get your point.

 

[mancunianblade]

For me what's happening with Ben Whiteman is something of a blue print of what should happen going forward . He showed early promise and got the odd run out for the first team but as soon as wilder came in he loaned him out to Mansfield for 6 months . He really impressed there and consequently wilder loaned him out for another 6 months at Donny Rovers in a league higher .

When he comes back from there the hard decisions need to be made . The way I see it there's 3 choices available . 1 ) He's deemed surplus to requirements and he's put on the list . 2 ) With the jury still out he's loaned out again for another 6 months in league 1 . 3 ) Hes included in the first team set up with a contract that reflects this .

I'm firmly of the belief that there has been a real desire at the Club to create a clearly defined ' pathway ' of progression for the Academy but with the managerial merry go round of the last 6 or 7 years it's been virtually impossible to set up and maintain. This is one of the reasons why the thought of wilder being here for sometime yet really excited me . I get the feeling that with him controlling everything from the Academy right through to the first team we'll finally see our Academy prospects really flourishing in the first team . Now that's something we would all love to see .

We will lose one or two along the way whilst we aren't in the PL and there's nothing we can realistically do to prevent that . But with Wilder pulling the strings and a clearly defined progressive development plan in place maybe we'll begin to see our Academy starlets thinking it's actually in their best interests to stay here .

Time will tell .

Exactly, I don't want to question the club after last season but I imagine Reed would be a starter if he had been turfed out from the off. I don't feel being a bit part player at the lane is good for development, they're ether good enough to play here or they go out on loan until they're good enough or deemed surplus.

 

[larkymasher]

Exactly, I don't want to question the club after last season but I imagine Reed would be a starter if he had been turfed out from the off. I don't feel being a bit part player at the lane is good for development, they're ether good enough to play here or they go out on loan until they're good enough or deemed surplus.

The thing is, is that CW feels that our youth players can develop within our own 23s side. Its not all about going on loan. These lads can still learn from training with the first team and playing here.
That said, at some point they need to play against players who are earning a salary to feed their families and pay a mortgage. At that point you will see if our kids have the physical power to go with their ability.

 

[coolhandluke]

Matt Lowton didn't have a sniff at the first team until this age and is a regular in the Prem.

There'll always be the odd one or two that slip through the net for one reason or another . Lowtons a great example but by the same token Brooks looks like he'll be another. Swings and roundabouts really . I'll stand by my original point though , 9 times out of 10 by the age of 20 to 21 we should be in a position to make an accurate assessment on each individual .

 

[madeinsheffield]

Didn't Lawton get shipped out to one of our 'sister clubs' and it brought him on a lot just before he made the first team?

 

[sheffielder]

No? I've got all the young tyros right so far. We'd have a front two of Ironside and De Juve left to you Sheffieldy Sheffielders...

I'll try to be a little more parochial in future and ignore the essential question of whether a player is good enough in favour of where he comes from.

Givemallarun.

You see this why I don't value your opinion, and why others on this thread have now gone down a different route to the point.

My point is why sign a player who is going to be a back up on a three year contract when you could sign a loan player in the hope that one of your youngsters comes through. For example EEL would be a loan and not a purchase. If nobody comes through you evaluate the situation next summer. One thing we do know is that wilder values Semple and Graham and that accordinging to you and many on here is the only thing that matters. Let's see what happens. Not at any point have I said pick a player who is not good enough or from sheffield over anyone else.

 

[sheffielder]

I understand both sides of the argument for giving youth some sort of game time but also when Pinchy says they must be good enough.

SUFC are not and have not been in a position to risk young players in the first team for a good few years. It was Semple last Summer, Slater at Christmas and now Graham this Summer.

All three clearly have a great chance to progress into a first team player but at 16, 17, 18 years old it is a lot to ask of any kid. Just ask Reed.

The club clearly are in a position now to give these boys, and others Ty Smith, Gilmoor, Hallam all time to develop. Whether that be with our 23s or on loan, maybe starting in the National League then L2.

As an example, last year the club was asked if a National League side could take Semple on loan for 6 months. SUFC refused as they wanted him playing for our 23s and being looked after at our club. I would suggest this is what will happen to Graham and Slater. They will stay with us to develop.

We must also remember that it is all well and good saying send these you lads out on loan to a L2 side, but L2 is still professional football and even a lower L2 side would feel that taking a 17 18 year centre back on loan would be a big gamble.

Please Please just let these lads progress and when CW and only CW thinks they are ready then we will see them in the first team.

Who has said we should pick a player who is not good enough apart from Pinchy?

 

[robbiez666]

Didn't Lawton get shipped out to one of our 'sister clubs' and it brought him on a lot just before he made the first team?

Sheffield Club and Ferencváros