Return of the cobbler

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Are you sure that response addresses the issues I raised? It doesn't seem to to me, at all. Have you responded to another post by mistake?

For clarity - once you strip away the budget already allocated, there are questions over how much money Wilder has to spend. The blunt statement of "he's got the biggest budget in the division" , or "right up there" is not necessarily relevant for the reasons I've stated.

I am not suggesting the board make signings, I'm saying Wilder, like Adkins, will suffer from the carnage of Clough. It's his signings that "the biggest budget" is already committed to.

If you were answering that point, then can you rephrase it?


UTB


Your first post was so unclear but your main point is less of a problem. To start with 10 players departed and of the 7 on the list the club will expedite their departures one way or another in a subsidised way. Wilder has a great opportunity to sign more players than we have ever signed before in a single summer. I don't think the owners will allow the 'overhang' of unwanted players to prevent Wilder from doing the job and he's got a very handsome budget like he's never had before.

By the end of the summer we'll see whether you are right or I am right.
 

Are you sure that response addresses the issues I raised? It doesn't seem to to me, at all. Have you responded to another post by mistake?

For clarity - once you strip away the budget already allocated, there are questions over how much money Wilder has to spend. The blunt statement of "he's got the biggest budget in the division" , or "right up there" is not necessarily relevant for the reasons I've stated.

I am not suggesting the board make signings, I'm saying Wilder, like Adkins, will suffer from the carnage of Clough. It's his signings that "the biggest budget" is already committed to.

If you were answering that point, then can you rephrase it?


UTB


It's fair to say though that following this summer's cull, there is significantly less restriction in terms of recruitment. Since last summer I think we've probably shedded about 16 players permanently now (Murphy, Alcock, Higdon, Dimaio, Khan, Collins and the 10 released) . That will surely make room to bring in say 7 or 8 who can challenge for a first team spot and possibly more if we can shift some of those on the transfer list.
 
Your first post was so unclear but your main point is less of a problem. To start with 10 players departed and of the 7 on the list the club will expedite their departures one way or another in a subsidised way. Wilder has a great opportunity to sign more players than we have ever signed before in a single summer. I don't think the owners will allow the 'overhang' of unwanted players to prevent Wilder from doing the job and he's got a very handsome budget like he's never had before.

By the end of the summer we'll see whether you are right or I am right.
I don't think we will have conclusive proof of anything though.

Any subsidising of players on the list will count in the budget, and be used against him if we aren't winning.

Take the signings made so far - do we really have an understanding of if they are top end signings or not?

If we signed 4 more like that, we'd have the biggest budget in the division, but the signings Wilder will have made will be those from a much more mid range budget.

If Done isn't scoring and Brayford isn't defending, will the £1,000,000 a year they consume be Wilder's fault? If he interviews well and we're winning - no. If he's annoying in interviews and we're losing - oh yes.

UTB
 
I don't think for one minute that Wilder is not happy about his budget to do the job at hand.

The owners are desperate for promotion and will either fund "the shite" as you call them, subsidise their wages elsewhere or come to a settlement and pay them off. The budget reduces but man did it need to and it's still up there in this league. The extra costs of moving them away will not be held against the new manager I'm sure; the costs are like an exceptional loss on past mistakes. Yes Sean will confirm it'll go down as wages but I reckon it won't count against the new manager's spending budget.

Wilder said the budget is fine and he has almost unprecedented circumstances to cherry pick L1 and L2 and bring loads of quality and fresh blood in.

Realistically how can any manager walk into a job he has just accepted and say anything else but the budget is fine?
We all know collectively the budget is far less now and is being wasted massively on some of 7 players who we can't get off the books. .
They are the hospital equivalent of bed blockers stopping new folks coming in; expect that some of the 7 are lying down in the BUPA private penthouse suites, largely thanks to the prolificacy of Clough, and Adkins with Hammond..
This is clearly impacting on who he can sign now.
Wilder might be able to currently to tell the agents where to go with their players wages demands, but realistically they also know he has had a massive 21 players clear out and hasn't got anywhere near a competitive team unless one of them blinks.

We couldn't cherry pick Tafazolli could we? It also sounds like there are plenty of other agents also holding out for big pay days.
Who holds most of the cards till the bed blockers go?
Thank you so bloody much Nigel Clough.
 
Realistically how can any manager walk into a job he has just accepted and say anything else but the budget is fine?
We all know collectively the budget is far less now and is being wasted massively on some of 7 players who we can't get off the books. .
They are the hospital equivalent of bed blockers stopping new folks coming in; expect that some of the 7 are lying down in the BUPA private penthouse suites, largely thanks to the prolificacy of Clough, and Adkins with Hammond..
This is clearly impacting on who he can sign now.
Wilder might be able to currently to tell the agents where to go with their players wages demands, but realistically they also know he has had a massive 21 players clear out and hasn't got anywhere near a competitive team unless one of them blinks.

We couldn't cherry pick Tafazolli could we? It also sounds like there are plenty of other agents also holding out for big pay days.
Who holds most of the cards till the bed blockers go?
Thank you so bloody much Nigel Clough.



At least we are down to 7 “bed-blockers” this summer rather than the 20ish inherited by NA. All managers will inherit some players they don’t want. At least this time, it is a more manageable number. If we do a good job of the recruitment, we will have every chance.
 
With what CW has said, so far his line up must look something like;

- - - - - - - - - - - - ??????* - - - - - - - - - - - -

Brayford - - ??????** - - ??????*** - - Hussey

- - - - - - - - ?????? - - ?????? - - - - - - - -

??????**** - - - - - - ?????? - - - - - - Duffy

- - - - - - - - - - - - - Sharp - - - - - - - - - - - -

Subs: Adams, Basham, Done, Long, Reed, Scougall.

*Adam Smith
**Kevin Long
***Kyle McFadzean
****Ricky Holmes

At least 7 signings to go IMO.
 
With what CW has said, so far his line up must look something like;

- - - - - - - - - - - - ??????* - - - - - - - - - - - -

Brayford - - ??????** - - ??????*** - - Hussey

- - - - - - - - ?????? - - ?????? - - - - - - - -

??????**** - - - - - - ?????? - - - - - - Duffy

- - - - - - - - - - - - - Sharp - - - - - - - - - - - -

Subs: Adams, Basham, Done, Long, Reed, Scougall.

*Adam Smith
**Kevin Long
***Kyle McFadzean
****Ricky Holmes

At least 7 signings to go IMO.

Good. It's the radical change we've needed for some time.

I'm not talking style of play or unrealistic expectations but simply the recruitment at reasonable expense of players who are reasonably better, more athletic, more energetic, have quicker feet and quicker minds than the recent shower.

In said "recent shower" I'm afraid I include at least one Academy prospect of whom great things were expected, but have not and will not be realised.
 
Realistically how can any manager walk into a job he has just accepted and say anything else but the budget is fine?
We all know collectively the budget is far less now and is being wasted massively on some of 7 players who we can't get off the books. .
They are the hospital equivalent of bed blockers stopping new folks coming in; expect that some of the 7 are lying down in the BUPA private penthouse suites, largely thanks to the prolificacy of Clough, and Adkins with Hammond..
This is clearly impacting on who he can sign now.
Wilder might be able to currently to tell the agents where to go with their players wages demands, but realistically they also know he has had a massive 21 players clear out and hasn't got anywhere near a competitive team unless one of them blinks.

We couldn't cherry pick Tafazolli could we? It also sounds like there are plenty of other agents also holding out for big pay days.
Who holds most of the cards till the bed blockers go?
Thank you so bloody much Nigel Clough.

Davie.

There's the wage bill and there's this season's wage budget.

Everybody agrees last year's wage bill, maybe over £6m, was ridiculously high for League 1. It got out of hand in the 2015 JTW when the Board bailed out Clough when he was desperate to recover things mid-season; 5 expensive signings in the JTW and who are still with us on top of loads signed before and yet we still played in the play-offs with a patched up side.

On recruiting Adkins they had to give him a budget to spend on new blood and so they did; 5 more expensive signings on top of Clough's ( loan players cost money too). The Board will have expected Adkins to shift players and he started to eventually but mostly on loan.

So yes, by nature the wage bill and total budget will be less this year. The big gambles on Clough and Adkins' ability to do the job have failed.

We've released 10 and another 7 are on the list. We may even sell some of the retained players.

Should we fail to induce some of the listed 7 by maybe subsidising their wages at another club either on a permanent deal or on loan or by settling their remaining contract, say pay half their wages for them to leave, then I think the club will do that. In the case of Hammond he'll have to accept say a half pay-off of his contract if he wants to play football at all in the next couple of years but he'll walk away with a load of dosh for doing nothing.

I would hope the Board treat those pay-offs and subsidies as one-off expenses and put them down to experience. The cost will go on the wage bill but I don't think they'll affect Wilder's spending budget which I hope and expect to be a very good budget for a League 1 team expecting promotion. Yes it will be less than before but two clubs got promoted on half our budget last season FGS.

I don't think it's money that will hinder Wilder for one minute. I think the gelling together and settling-in all those new players is a massive challenge. Nobody knows how some of these players, so excited to be playing at Bramall Lane, will actually respond to the 'big club atmosphere' and all the expectations and attention that goes with it.

Another historic point is that when our budget was slashed we couldn't attract a manager until Weir stepped up. Even McCall couldn't accept that poisoned chalice even though he desperately wanted to return to the club. I reckon the budget is much higher than then thanks to the prince and don't forget Wilder has taken the job within hours of being offered it. It took Mourinho 3 days to agree all that sort of stuff at Old Trafford!!
 
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When was there any morals in football . Stubbs is now paid by Rotherham . Certain statements by managers can dictate if they are to be successful or not . Poor Rotherham have just appointed another dud IMO.

You need to be ruthless or you get the sack .

Wilder appears he can be ruthless .

UTB

It was having morals that got Adkins the sack at Southampton ultimately, guess it depends on how you you want to live your life - but success at any price no matter who you shit on is a philosophy most seem to live by these days, you're right.

We shall see about Stubbs and "poor Rotherham" who currently sit in the division above.
 
It was having morals that got Adkins the sack at Southampton ultimately, guess it depends on how you you want to live your life - but success at any price no matter who you shit on is a philosophy most seem to live by these days, you're right.

We shall see about Stubbs and "poor Rotherham" who currently sit in the division above.


Why did his morals cause him to be sacked WB?
 
With what CW has said, so far his line up must look something like;

- - - - - - - - - - - - ??????* - - - - - - - - - - - -

Brayford - - ??????** - - ??????*** - - Hussey

- - - - - - - - ?????? - - ?????? - - - - - - - -

??????**** - - - - - - ?????? - - - - - - Duffy

- - - - - - - - - - - - - Sharp - - - - - - - - - - - -

Subs: Adams, Basham, Done, Long, Reed, Scougall.

*Adam Smith
**Kevin Long
***Kyle McFadzean
****Ricky Holmes

At least 7 signings to go IMO.

- - - - - - - - - - - - Smith- - - - - - - - - - - -

Brayford - - McFadzean - - Long - - Hussey

- - - - - - - - Basham - - Grant - - - - - - - -

Duffy- - - - - - Fleck - - - - - - Holmes

- - - - - - - - - - - - Sharp - - - - - - - - - - - -

Subs

Ramsdale
Adams
Scougall
Mcnulty
Pierre
Hanson
*** Prem youth pacey winger on loan

Permanent signings funded by flogging Long and Done if we need to raise funds for transfer fees.

Only a bit of fun on my behalf playing real life football manager but could that team be realistic and would it be succesful?
 

With regards to Adkins being 'nice'. I hate the word 'nice'. It means nothing in business.

We needed to employ someone who was tactically aware, resourceful, a good man manager, could connect with the fans, hardworking, industrious, excellent leadership skills, good role model (ie not a piss head), good communicator, honest and possibly other attributes.

But Adkins was 'nice'. So ignore all the others because he ticked the most important box.

Yes. 'Nice'. So nice that in his latest 'lay down and die' act v. Scunthorpe in the last game of the season, how did Adkins spend the vital last ten minutes before kick off? Throwing teacups in the dressing room? Telling the players they were fighting for a contract? Telling them they would never play in a stadium in front of such fans again unless they bucked their ideas up?

No. 15 minutes before KO, he was stood in his 'technical area' doing fuck all. A crap manager and a fucking coward.
 
Why did his morals cause him to be sacked WB?
According to that Saints fan that comes on here sometimes it's cos when he joined them their chairman (some guy called Nicola summat or other) tried to get him to resign from Scunny first so they could dodge the compensation payment, and they apparently offered him a cut of the wedge they'd save. Adkins said no that was wrong and they had to pay Scunthorpe, and by all accounts it was only a matter of time before they got him back for it.

Not too chuffed about last season to say the least, but Scunthorpe had been good to him and he refused to shit on them and I have total respect for him for that.
 
According to that Saints fan that comes on here sometimes it's cos when he joined them their chairman (some guy called Nicola summat or other) tried to get him to resign from Scunny first so they could dodge the compensation payment, and they apparently offered him a cut of the wedge they'd save. Adkins said no that was wrong and they had to pay Scunthorpe, and by all accounts it was only a matter of time before they got him back for it.

Not too chuffed about last season to say the least, but Scunthorpe had been good to him and he refused to shit on them and I have total respect for him for that.

My Saint's supporting rellies are hoping that Adkins will return, to a heroes welcome. Normally they are quite intelligent people. Funny that, I just don't understand it.
 
My Saint's supporting rellies are hoping that Adkins will return, to a heroes welcome. Normally they are quite intelligent people. Funny that, I just don't understand it.
still very well thought of there he is by all accounts, understandable really as he did for them what Harry did for us.
 
still very well thought of there he is by all accounts, understandable really as he did for them what Harry did for us.

I'm pretty sure he didn't scar them for decades with the stigma of crude, ale house anti-football...

Only in SO14....
 
I would like to say,

Deano's goal from 40 yards Vs Liverpool

Gannon's right footed volley at Forest

Mike (Zico) Lake's 30 yarder at Southampton

and if this Time Machine would fire up, I would go back to 5th May 1990 at Leicester, about 11:30am, first pint

Cheers Harry
 
My Saint's supporting rellies are hoping that Adkins will return, to a heroes welcome. Normally they are quite intelligent people. Funny that, I just don't understand it.
One of my mates is a Leicester supporter and he feel the same about Bassett as we do about Adkins.
 
One of my mates is a Leicester supporter and he feel the same about Bassett as we do about Adkins.
and he probably doesn't feel the same about Micky Adams as we do either - and on and on it goes ...
 
One of my mates is a Leicester supporter and he feel the same about Bassett as we do about Adkins.

You'll find the same at the vast majority of his former clubs. He is rightly regarded as an irrelevant relic of a time and style long since consigned to the dustbin of football history and mourned not one jot.

...except of course in S2.
 

You'll find the same at the vast majority of his former clubs. He is rightly regarded as an irrelevant relic of a time and style long since consigned to the dustbin of football history and mourned not one jot.

...except of course in S2.
And SW19

What Bassett did at other clubs isn't of great relevance to me, I was just using the example to illustrate the point that supporters of clubs will have differing views of a manager, depending on how successful his tenure at any particular club was.

Bassett gave us top level football, the first I, personally, had seen. Whilst I've no wish to go back to the type of football we played to get through the divisions, I'm not going to criticise his achievements with us, which surpassed everything before him back to John Harris, and everything since.
 

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