Prince ?

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Go and criticise religion (a specific one) on social media or any other public platform and see where it gets you.

Again, he’s here for the weekend and probably 3 hours at a game. We’re getting pissed off and uppity because a man doesn’t want serving by a woman.

Fuck. Me.

Having been sometimes amused by your posts in the Twats thread I'm amazed at your tolerance of this issue. Then again, looking back at the tales you tell of your lass, maybe I shouldn't be surprised! :D
 

Having been sometimes amused by your posts in the Twats thread I'm amazed at your tolerance of this issue. Then again, looking back at the tales you tell of your lass, maybe I shouldn't be surprised! :D

To be honest with you, I’m kind of playing devils advocate. The backwards attitude towards women from the religion of peace disgusts me. The religion of peace does as a whole. But hanging him out to dry for something that may or may not be true is a bit OTT. Was the girl in question really that pissed off by it that she has kicked up a stink to this level? Just get on with your job and do as you’re told.
 
To be honest with you, I’m kind of playing devils advocate. The backwards attitude towards women from the religion of peace disgusts me. The religion of peace does as a whole. But hanging him out to dry for something that may or may not be true is a bit OTT. Was the girl in question really that pissed off by it that she has kicked up a stink to this level? Just get on with your job and do as you’re told.

I doubt one of us know the full story (yet) which is sort of a bit of an obstacle to forming an opinion on the specific alleged incident.

I'm interested in post 16 by Oberon. It appears the Prince has "chums". Plain old Kev has proper "mates" and is therefore one o't' lads. IF what had happened to Oberon is true then I would have kicked off.
 
Go on - I'll bite. But the question itself implies some kind of "otherness". I mean, how would you feel? I probably feel the same.

In reality, it's tiring, but women of my generation are used to it. Most of my secondary school education happened before the Equal Opportunities and Sex Discrimination Acts, and I and other girls my age were not allowed to study what we wanted to study but were made to study some things that I was really not good at - and didn't want to be. But they were the girls' subjects. So we were excluded from certain paths of study and therefore jobs.

The fight for equality is not just about not being allowed to serve someone I wouldn't even want to talk to. And while I applaud this thread's welcome but somewhat unusual foray into feminism, the majority of men that I was brought up with, and have studied and worked with, see equality as something women have to earn. That it's something that men bestow if we behave properly. That it's how we want to be "treated". Rather than it being a fact of life. That's the real issue.

Ask yourself why women have to be concerned about what we wear, whether we can walk home alone, who we need to worry about. Then have a look at some of the avatars in use on this board. Have a read of some of the words used as insults by one man to another, some of the words used to describe female athletes and other women and ask yourself if this is a welcoming space. I'm not banned from participating but excluded? Very often. As I said, it's tiring.

Nicely summarised, and sadly so much of what you write is correct.

For me it's not about us vs them, it's about ensuring that those, be it females, blacks, disabled (of which I'm one), or anyone with a clear disadvantage, who struggle to compete, for no other reason than they're different from those who constitute those who create the rules. If someone else suddenly finds their ceiling of opportunity has been raised then I see all of us as winners. I certainly don't want anyone to be treated as a 'lesser' version of myself, just as those who marched in the civil rights drama of 1960's America opposed the racist climate that existed in the south. They did so because the sheer injustice of treating fellow human beings so unfairly and cruelly had exhausted it's right to continue.

Of course racism still exists everywhere, but the gist of my argument is that if we don't try and make a difference then things will never change. Those who've created conservative rules and mindsets will, of course, fight tooth and nail to maintain what they've created. But it's often the case when they see that their 'empires' are threatened that they're at their worst, so, just like the gun lobby in the states, they refuse to do the decent thing. They refuse to accept that the world would be a safer, better, place if only weapons were restricted or banned completely. so it is with every other form of tyranny, which, as you identified, was created by men to benefit men. Women, on the whole, aren't held in the same regard as men. This particular struggle continues, sadly, but there are very savvy women out there. They have learnt that to change things they often do it from within, but sometimes even this has been found to come up short, so they resort to what you might refer to as political guerrilla warfare. Often this has the reverse impact, mostly on those men whose belief system is ingrained to the point of being diamond hard.

I wish I had answers to any of this, but it takes a perspective and resilience on a par with Catholicism to make the necessary changes. Often it's not about expecting changes in decades but centuries. Of course that's shocking, but it's the reality in a world where assuming that change will happen is to find that you're blocked at every turn. None of which will stop me from airing my views, even if I appear to be in a minority of one. Change has to come from within, and only then can we hope to influence others. It's a hard, long, slog, but if you're seeking to improve the world we live in you must be prepared for ridicule, anger on a scale that can be frightening, systematic change that's designed to crush your will, and so on. I think that what has been discovered, and should give us hope, is that progressive ideas are like seeds, and once something takes a hold there's often little that can prevent it from growing. One cautionary note; we should be careful to avoid, or resist, the dark arts employed to ensure that a clearly progressive idea isn't diluted to the point where it's barely effective.

Apologies for the ramble, but regarding the Prince and what may/may not have happened in his name and belief system. Everything matters, no matter how small. As I wrote elsewhere, suffragettes didn't suffer and struggle to discover that a female could be removed for being female. You might as well endorse 'Blacks only' drinking taps or washrooms, or allow signs that scream, "No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish".
 
I don’t remember anyone having an issue when the Prince became co-owner, yet we all knew about the Saudi culture.

Basically everyone turns a blind eye

Not strictly true, old son. Your memrie ain’t entirely accurate.
 
Tom, by the time you read:

“human rights abuses and regressive social practices have to weighed up against success on the pitch.”

You must surely have had a slight inclination that I wasn’t being serious?
Well, I guess I'm glad you weren't. This is the internet after all, it brings all kinds of views to the table.

Judging by some of the other replies on this thread I wasn't that surprised to find a more extreme version of that side of the argument.

I'll remember to take your future comments with a pinch of salt ;)
 

i used to work at sufc on the bar and when "important" guests arrived it was usually the upper management who would look after them, that person would usually be older and not the usual 18yr old who most get as their requests are usually more demanding.

i dont see this as an issue also lets not forget he is a Prince and the security issues that goes with that.

if im honest this member of staff has crossed the line by putting it on social media before raising it as an issue formally with her employers and she has shown herself to be immature and childish maybe thats why she was moved.

also good to see on twitter how many Christians have been reborn since this non event has happened.
I'm a republican agnostic. I'm open about my dislike of Saudi and it's "morals". If any of the negative stuff about the co-owner is true, it's not very positive for SUFC. We do have a genuine reputation (by football standards) for community and inclusivity.
 
It’s obviously not good behaviour to refuse to be served by a woman, but is it really that big of a deal? Was she sent home and therefore lost a days pay? Was her job made more difficult as a result of being moved? I’d have thought no would be the answer, so I don’t see how the club could have treated an employee badly in this case.

Sheffield United Football Club aren’t going to change Saudi culture so why not just let them have their silly little requests, it’s the most sensible solution for all involved including the female staff.
The most sensible solution is not to invite one of the most repressive cultures in the world into the football club.
 
That's pretty speculative. The truth is that we have no idea if the type of investment you name is even a possibility with the Prince. A top 5 prem push is a distant dream, not a specific promised goal under condition of implementing his personal rules.

'No-one's died have they?' is a line of logic which could be used to defend all manner of unspeakable actions, would you be willing to defend those as well?



What kind of human rights abuses would you be willing to tolerate for the money and how far could he go before you'd object? I'm genuinely curious. Is it ok if gays or women are banned from Bramall Lane at the whim of the prince? Neither of these would 'directly concern you', so no skin off of your nose? How much freedom to abuse human rights abuse does £50m get you, or £100m?



There is harm in it if you're a woman who happens to want to be treated equally to men.



Since you don't mind inequality i'd assume you wouldn't mind being treated more harshly because of your own particular gender or race or religious preference? Or is it just when others suffer from inequality that it's ok?


It is perfectly possible to run a successful football club without regressing to stone-age values, plenty of other clubs do it. I just don't buy into this idea that because someone has money you should acquiesce to their every demand.

If we want to keep the heart and soul of SUFC then we should aim to maintain the spirit and values that one commonly finds in Sheffield and Yorkshire, not Riyadh. If this is what success costs (and as i said above, it doesn't have to), then personally i'll pass until we can find another way, cheers.
I will too. Some things are more important than "success"!!!!
 
It's only really one bloke......
Depends what he brings with him. I don't like Russian oligarchs either but I don't know if Roman gets the gender of the staff changed at Stamford Bridge to suit how things may be in Moscow or St Petersburg. Somehow I think it's unlikely.
 
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The UK legitimise the Saudi culture every single day! Take BAE Systems for example, they are a British Company with massive contracts in Saudi, are you protesting for Women’s right at their headquarters?

I don’t remember anyone having an issue when the Prince became co-owner, yet we all knew about the Saudi culture.

Basically everyone turns a blind eye because of the sums of money involved with dealing with the Saudis. It shouldn’t be this way, but it’s unfortunately how it is. If you have an issue then take it to Westminster and not a football club!
I had an issue.
 
Depends what he brings with him. I don't like Russian oligarchs either but I don't know if Roman gets the gender of the staff changed at Stamford Bridge to suit how things may be in Moscow or St Petersburg. Somehow I think it's unlikely.


We should find out the details before we stone him. ( not necessarily funny pun intended)
 
That’s not the point. His home country isn’t as progressive and/or as inclusive as ours. Is his sexist attitude part of his religious beliefs? If it is, then I dare say criticizing his religion will leave you on very dodgy ground.
I'm not, I'm criticising Saudi Arabia. It enshrines inequality in it's laws. Islam doesn't.
 
So can someone put in layman's terms the issues behind the disagreement and why some think one or other of the owners will be victorious?
 

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