Prince - give us some direction

[Revolution]

The acadamy needs to be assessed like everything else. While it's nice to have some home grown talent coming through we haven't had much of a return. To answer your question I would.

One thing to be noted about the academy is the high percentage of players who have come through it in recent years and played in the first team who are always injured. Osula, Jebbison, Hackford and RND to name but 4. There are others who have never made it because of injury.

There is an argument for getting rid of the academy if it is not category one, though I would prefer the latter.

 

[Carlton Blade]

The acadamy needs to be assessed like everything else. While it's nice to have some home grown talent coming through we haven't had much of a return. To answer your question I would.

Academies are great for convincing the fanbase that you are a forward thinking club who really value youth. The problem is, even the best academies struggle to play in the top 2 divisions and bring ready made starters into the 1st team.

I wouldn't scrap the academy. I would be looking to move players in and out more quickly

 

[Silent Blade]

I'm unsure how to answer this. Do you want me to give you a list of qualified DoF's/football administrators?

I dont know much about qualified DoFs/ administrators. You seem to be the expert so who would you suggest please?

 

[Carlton Blade]

I dont know much about qualified DoFs/ administrators. You seem to be the expert so who would you suggest please?

If you needed heart surgery would you want someone qualified with a history of success and accept that the hospital had done their due diligence or would you want to go through a list of candidates before putting forward a suggestion?

 

[Silent Blade]

The acadamy needs to be assessed like everything else. While it's nice to have some home grown talent coming through we haven't had much of a return. To answer your question I would.

For years I have had doubts about having an Academy since the EPPP started more than a decade ago. I have posted about this quite a few times.

 

[Silent Blade]

If you needed heart surgery would you want someone qualified with a history of success and accept that the hospital had done their due diligence or would you want to go through a list of candidates before putting forward a suggestion

Last January I had a heart attack and had three stents inserted in my heart and I trusted the doctor who did the procedure.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

Brentford started the moneyball system more than a decade ago, scrapped their Academy a few years later. Eventually got into the PL two years ago. Should we do the same by scrapping the Academy?

It's not exactly done much for our first team. A lot of players who made the first team were snapped up from other clubs and spent very little time in our academy i.e. Tonge, Montgomery, Jagielka, Quinn, Lowton, Brooks, Ndiaye.

This club has harped on about producing first team players from the academy for the last decade, but has failed in doing so, or had moderate success in League One, which says a lot about what level players we're actually producing.

We had to buy back two of our players for more than we sold them for in Billy Sharp and Aaron Ramsdale.

Our academy is a waste of time. Any players who have gone on to play in the Premier League we gave away for peanuts. Kyle Naughton, Kyle Walker, Matt Lowton, Dominic Calvert-Lewin, Aaron Ramsdale.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Last January I had a heart attack and had three stents inserted in my heart and I trusted the doctor who did the procedure.

So you trusted that the institution involved had put together a job description that adequately covered the requirements for the service you needed and had thoroughly reviewed the applicants.

I can tell you exactly what I think is required from the role that I would hope made sure United got VFM on transfers and football admin. I can't tell you who the best person is for it, I don't know enough

 

[Carlton Blade]

It's not exactly done much for our first team. A lot of players who made the first team were snapped up from other clubs and spent very little time in our academy i.e. Tonge, Montgomery, Jagielka, Quinn, Lowton, Brooks, Ndiaye.

This club has harped on about producing first team players from the academy for the last decade, but has failed in doing so, or had moderate success in League One, which says a lot about what level players we're actually producing.

We had to buy back two of our players for more than we sold them for in Billy Sharp and Aaron Ramsdale.

Our academy is a waste of time. Any players who have gone on to play in the Premier League we gave away for peanuts. Kyle Naughton, Kyle Walker, Matt Lowton, Dominic Calvert-Lewin, Aaron Ramsdale.

Are you just ignoring the additional money made on all those players through sell on clauses?

 

[Silent Blade]

It's not exactly done much for our first team. A lot of players who made the first team were snapped up from other clubs and spent very little time in our academy i.e. Tonge, Montgomery, Jagielka, Quinn, Lowton, Brooks, Ndiaye.

This club has harped on about producing first team players from the academy for the last decade, but has failed in doing so, or had moderate success in League One, which says a lot about what level players we're actually producing.

We had to buy back two of our players for more than we sold them for in Billy Sharp and Aaron Ramsdale.

Our academy is a waste of time. Any players who have gone on to play in the Premier League we gave away for peanuts. Kyle Naughton, Kyle Walker, Matt Lowton, Dominic Calvert-Lewin, Aaron Ramsdale.

Dont disagree, the EPPP wasnt good news for our Academy and clubs with Category 1 Academy have been taking our best players

 

[Silent Blade]

So you trusted that the institution involved had put together a job description that adequately covered the requirements for the service you needed and had thoroughly reviewed the applicants.

I can tell you exactly what I think is required from the role that I would hope made sure United got VFM on transfers and football admin. I can't tell you who the best person is for it, I don't know enough

At last you are admitting that you dont know enough about recruitment. Neither do I.

 

[brownblade]

It's not exactly done much for our first team. A lot of players who made the first team were snapped up from other clubs and spent very little time in our academy i.e. Tonge, Montgomery, Jagielka, Quinn, Lowton, Brooks, Ndiaye.

This club has harped on about producing first team players from the academy for the last decade, but has failed in doing so, or had moderate success in League One, which says a lot about what level players we're actually producing.

We had to buy back two of our players for more than we sold them for in Billy Sharp and Aaron Ramsdale.

Our academy is a waste of time. Any players who have gone on to play in the Premier League we gave away for peanuts. Kyle Naughton, Kyle Walker, Matt Lowton, Dominic Calvert-Lewin, Aaron Ramsdale.

Peanuts in the opinion of a mega rich club maybe. Many millions were made in transfer fees from those players.

Yes possibly we could have got more for some of them. Still, not a waste of time, particularly as two of those you named (three if we include Walker), had a positive influence on the first team

 

[Carlton Blade]

At last you are admitting that you dont know enough about recruitment. Neither do I.

 

[LS16Blade]

That was going really well until the word Curran was used. Curran had nothing to do with the 1981-82 success and is up there with the worst signings ever made.

Agree, ZLB.

The point I was making, though, was that we, as a club, were throwing our weight around in that 12 month period. After securing promotion, we went out and nicked Wednesday’s best player for £100k and higher wages even though they were in a higher division.

Similarly, with Young - from Leicester in a higher division for £160k - even, though, that transfer turned out to be poor too due to Young being injury-prone.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I have an idea that may serve the club well

Don't give contacts to players with atrocious injury records and then don't sign new players who aren't fit?

So we shouldn't be having any talks with Oli then on a new deal?

 

[Carlton Blade]

So we shouldn't be having any talks with Oli then on a new deal?

Which Oli?

 

[Revolution]

Agree, ZLB.

The point I was making, though, was that we, as a club, were throwing our weight around in that 12 month period. After securing promotion, we went out and nicked Wednesday’s best player for £100k and higher wages even though they were in a higher division.

Similarly, with Young - from Leicester in a higher division for £160k - even, though, that transfer turned out to be poor too due to Young being injury-prone.

We were favourites for the title, though Portsmouth burst that bubble on the first day of the season.

 

[Nagima]

One thing to be noted about the academy is the high percentage of players who have come through it in recent years and played in the first team who are always injured. Osula, Jebbison, Hackford and RND to name but 4. There are others who have never made it because of injury.

There is an argument for getting rid of the academy if it is not category one, though I would prefer the latter.

Spot on there have been some with potential but we are not getting them into the side consistently due to injuries and other reasons.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Which Oli?

View attachment 173992

We could have a whole platoon.

 

[Carlton Blade]

We could have a whole platoon.
View attachment 173995

But they would rather be anywhere else......

 

[Sean Thornton]

A lot of clubs do need to be subsidised to stay afloat. But that isn't really the issue here. The issue is that the board haven't a clue. The owner and his cronies playing reality FIFA with us and the United World experiment. The recruitment has been shocking with the exception of a few players. The manager is out of his depth and the team are losing morale.

PA worked out alright when purchasing the vlub and the ground. There are 3 seasons of PL money. The first being squandered except for what was used to buy back the ground. The out lay on transfers has not been much in the last 3 seasons. The club get 31k attendance in PL with 27K in the chpionship. Compared to most other clubs we would a lot closer to sustainability.

PA invested 70M but how much of that was borrowed by the club itself. The discussions regarding selling were estimating 150M valuation. If he gets his way he will be clear 80M.
The fact he wants to sell means he wants to maximise what he personally can take out. Plus you have the nonsense of consulting fees being paid to United World.

The squad isn't as bad as we make out. The problems are morale, organisation and failing to buy wing backs. Hamer is decent. Archer is a finisher we just don't have wing backs that can create anything.

Overall a glorious opportunity has been lost to solidify the financial foundations of the club

“PA invested 70M but how much of that was borrowed by the club itself. The discussions regarding selling were estimating 150M valuation. If he gets his way he will be clear 80M.
The fact he wants to sell means he wants to maximise what he personally can take out. “

Club borrowings are shown on the club balance sheet as a creditor. Not related to any share investment by PA.

Whatever sale proceeds may be achieved, they go to the owner for his shares. Nothing for him to “take out” unless he’s made loans since the date of the last accounts

 

[Slim Man]

Is that a new B side he's released? Hate it when they try and profit off the dead

 

[Nagima]

“PA invested 70M but how much of that was borrowed by the club itself. The discussions regarding selling were estimating 150M valuation. If he gets his way he will be clear 80M.
The fact he wants to sell means he wants to maximise what he personally can take out. “

Club borrowings are shown on the club balance sheet as a creditor. Not related to any share investment by PA.

Whatever sale proceeds may be achieved, they go to the owner for his shares. Nothing for him to “take out” unless he’s made loans since the date of the last accounts

I haven't seen the end of year accounts Sean. The question I have is did he actually invest 70M or did the club invest 70 million or most of it.
That is considering the club owns the ground again. Two seasons in the PL around 200M plus what ever parachute payments we got and what we are to get this season. I appreciate Covid had an impact and players wages can be a burden but with attendences at 27K in Championship and 31K in the PL. Its hard for me to see how we were close to administration. I can understand that he does not want the club to go heavy in the transfer market considering the results of the last splurge. He could walk away with a lot of money if a sale goes through without having invested a whole lot.

I do take your point on take out money and the books.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I haven't seen the end of year accounts Sean. The question I have is did he actually invest 70M or did the club invest 70 million or most of it.
That is considering the club owns the ground again. Two seasons in the PL around 200M plus what ever parachute payments we got and what we are to get this season. I appreciate Covid had an impact and players wages can be a burden but with attendences at 27K in Championship and 31K in the PL. Its hard for me to see how we were close to administration. I can understand that he does not want the club to go heavy in the transfer market considering the results of the last splurge. He could walk away with a lot of money if a sale goes through without having invested a whole lot.

I do take your point on take out money and the books.

Firstly, we weren’t close to administration. Bettis explained this. I doubt he’d lie. It’s something put forward by a) PA haters and/or b) people who have no understanding of what admin. would entail. Of which there are legion.

The Princes investment is in share capital. Ie shares purchased by him/his ultimate holding company. No money has been paid by the club towards these share issues or payment save receive the cash to fund the club.

Companies House show these share issues and states that the shares were issued for cash.

The investment originates from Blades Leisure Limited. But the football club has not funded any of this investment.

£70m is a lot. Not enough to keep us in the PL admittedly but it’s hardly not a “whole lot”.

I remember YorkBlade asking for questions for his interview with the Prince. The best one, for me, was “why aren’t you richer you cunt”. Which, joking aside, covers the whole question of why we are where we are.

We’re not near the bottom of league one though.

 

[Nagima]

Firstly, we weren’t close to administration. Bettis explained this. I doubt he’d lie. It’s something put forward by a) PA haters and/or b) people who have no understanding of what admin. would entail. Of which there are legion.

The Princes investment is in share capital. Ie shares purchased by him/his ultimate holding company. No money has been paid by the club towards these share issues or payment save receive the cash to fund the club.

Companies House show these share issues and states that the shares were issued for cash.

The investment originates from Blades Leisure Limited. But the football club has not funded any of this investment.

£70m is a lot. Not enough to keep us in the PL admittedly but it’s hardly not a “whole lot”.

I remember YorkBlade asking for questions for his interview with the Prince. The best one, for me, was “why aren’t you richer you cunt”. Which, joking aside, covers the whole question of why we are where we are.

We’re not near the bottom of league one though.

Thank you for the explanation Sean regarding share issue. Do we know what the last share issue was about?
. And I am more pragmatic about things rather than moan about why he hasn't more money.

One point I will disagree on is the being close to administration. And its not that I am a prince hater. So maybe I don't understand the administration process. We did though run out of oil because the supplier would not refill until the previous bill was settled. We did not make scheduled payments for Anel and Brewster leading to a transfer embargo. So obviously we had a cash flow issue and prioritised players wages over the oil and the transfer payments. Whether the Dozy injection is true or just made up I don't know but we got back out of it.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Thank you for the explanation Sean regarding share issue. Do we know what the last share issue was about?
. And I am more pragmatic about things rather than moan about why he hasn't more money.

One point I will disagree on is the being close to administration. And its not that I am a prince hater. So maybe I don't understand the administration process. We did though run out of oil because the supplier would not refill until the previous bill was settled. We did not make scheduled payments for Anel and Brewster leading to a transfer embargo. So obviously we had a cash flow issue and prioritised players wages over the oil and the transfer payments. Whether the Dozy injection is true or just made up I don't know but we got back out of it.

To force a legal issue to get their money, a creditor would issue a winding up order. Not administration.

We were never under an embargo for non payment of wages. That’s a fallacy and tbh even the AntiAbullahs shied away from that claim. (Don’t just believe me, do your own research. I rely on such things as Companies House filings and how l’ve earned my living rather than just reading what trolls claim on here. Believe me, if admin was an issue, the whole of the insolvency world would have been all over it. Your comment that you don’t understand it but still have an opinion does show you don’t know how it works. If there were heart surgeons on here l wouldn’t pass an opinion on the rights and wrongs of the debate - whist admitting l didn’t understand it - l may ask questions but that’s not the same thing.

Again, with the Dozy issue. EFL rules prevent anyone not deemed to be a fit and proper person from impacting on the day to day running of the club. Any involvement he would have would be solely with the Prince over the purchase of his shares. This isn’t accountancy speak but rather simple common sense from the EFL which is out there for all to see with a bit of effort. As far as l know there is no proof whatsoever Dozy introduced any money into the club. He was looking to buy PA out. Any non refundable deposit would belong to PA.
The problem in listening to the fantasy claims on here or SM in general is that the claims seem sexier than the realities. Especially where there’s an agenda.

Oh, the non payment of the heating bill while possibly leading to a winding up order - something claimed by no one - was far less important legally, than breaches leading to embargo.

 

[Jaime]

Not defending the prince for one second!.. 100% he should have sold in May/June 2023… A number of us look at Brighton and Brentford (understandably) for their recruitment.

Playing devil\s advocate…..

i) We have a distant prince who wants to sell…. Did he select the signings? (There may have been direction but I suspect no if he wanted to get the maximum price for SUFC)
ii) Did PH go out personally and state ‘these boys will transform my team!’ … I suspect most likely no… possibly most likely PH was offered an opportunity and decided the option was better than no signing.

Before moving onto iii), I’ll admit I’ve supported PH being replaced soon…. I have posed myself questions that I can’t answer which have put me back on the fence….

iii) If the prince wasn’t interested… if PH didn’t personally identify each signing…. Who led this process? I don’t want to blame, rather I’d like to understand where the true power dynamic lies… in the owner?… in the manager?… in the recruitment team?… or elsewhere?

 

[Nagima]

To force a legal issue to get their money, a creditor would issue a winding up order. Not administration.

We were never under an embargo for non payment of wages. That’s a fallacy and tbh even the AntiAbullahs shied away from that claim. (Don’t just believe me, do your own research. I rely on such things as Companies House filings and how l’ve earned my living rather than just reading what trolls claim on here. Believe me, if admin was an issue, the whole of the insolvency world would have been all over it. Your comment that you don’t understand it but still have an opinion does show you don’t know how it works. If there were heart surgeons on here l wouldn’t pass an opinion on the rights and wrongs of the debate - whist admitting l didn’t understand it - l may ask questions but that’s not the same thing.

Again, with the Dozy issue. EFL rules prevent anyone not deemed to be a fit and proper person from impacting on the day to day running of the club. Any involvement he would have would be solely with the Prince over the purchase of his shares. This isn’t accountancy speak but rather simple common sense from the EFL which is out there for all to see with a bit of effort. As far as l know there is no proof whatsoever Dozy introduced any money into the club. He was looking to buy PA out. Any non refundable deposit would belong to PA.
The problem in listening to the fantasy claims on here or SM in general is that the claims seem sexier than the realities. Especially where there’s an agenda.

Oh, the non payment of the heating bill while possibly leading to a winding up order - something claimed by no one - was far less important legally, than breaches leading to embargo.

.

Thank you Sean for the clarity and patience.

 

[Broomhall Blade]

the premier league has moved on in the last 3 years a leicester will never happen again

I remember people where saying the exact same thing before Leicester won it, just replace Leicester with Blackburn.

 

[ATL Recs]

I remember people where saying the exact same thing before Leicester won it, just replace Leicester with Blackburn.

You can’t compare Leicester City’s winning it with Blackburn one won it the other bought it
Rovers biggest spenders around when they bought it