Pressing

[Rodley]

Also this...

"Gnonto has 3 years remaining on his contract and Summerville has 2 years remaining. It's not a comparable situation with Berge and Ndiaye"

I just don’t think, particularly with Ndiaye, the only route ended in him being sold so close to the start of the season. I don’t even agree he would have forced through a sale. That’s just the culmination of bad squad management, bad administration and a lack of direction. That was the story of the summer (and longer). You’ll not convince me otherwise.

Specifically; the depressing thing about Summerville is he has two years left and Leeds are talking about giving him a new deal on more money now. They know he’ll go eventually, but it’s good squad management to maximise the fee they will ultimately receive.

If we’re choosing our current ownerships efficacy as a hill to die on, I think you’ll end up like King Cnut in a matter of weeks. We’re not unravelling, it’s unravelled already.

 

[Nagima]

Exactly. One of the main factors behind our success in the Premier League in the 2019/20 season was not so much a high press, but setting traps and blocking passing lanes. There's been none of that this season.

Berge’s positioning defensively was really smart - you could see him dropping in to block passing lanes constantly. He got up and down the pitch a lot as well and he’s a better defensive player than Hamer. I would have thought his pressing stats would be similar to Hamer in the Champ.

He didn’t have the role to actively press but his positioning provided a base for others to do so.
[/QUOTE]
I think you are being overly generous to Berge about his defensive capabilities. The longer he is gone the better the player he was in some people's eyes. His general approach was to trot back and arrive at the box just as the ball is hitting the back of the net. I am basing my opinion on what I have seen of him for us and at Burnley.

The problem we have is organisation. No concerted effort and no leaders.

 

[Lmaobob]

I think players have already given up and aren't risking injuries so they can move elsewhere in the summer

 

[Alex Cheeseright]

We've shown way too much respect to every team this season and worried too much in what they can do and not what we can do.

Big difference from wilders first stint is we came up and feared no one with hard work and intensity (mixed with good attacking).

We have lost all identity of playing/attacking and defending style and the lack of leadership on the pitch is killing us. We have no patern of play and just stand off teams.

Maybe and probably is down to the recruitment and not having the players capable of doing so. We must be the slowest and unfittest team in the prem, if the opposition beat the press then our players struggle to get back and recover.

Recruitment with Mitchell has been very miss with the occasional hit. These players are not, not, not Premier League quality.

 

[LJBlade]

I just don’t think, particularly with Ndiaye, the only route ended in him being sold so close to the start of the season. I don’t even agree he would have forced through a sale. That’s just the culmination of bad squad management, bad administration and a lack of direction. That was the story of the summer (and longer). You’ll not convince me otherwise.

Specifically; the depressing thing about Summerville is he has two years left and Leeds are talking about giving him a new deal on more money now. They know he’ll go eventually, but it’s good squad management to maximise the fee they will ultimately receive.

If we’re choosing our current ownerships efficacy as a hill to die on, I think you’ll end up like King Cnut in a matter of weeks. We’re not unravelling, it’s unravelled already.

He basically did force through a sale with his flip-flopping over signing a new deal. United made him a very good contract offer and he chose not to sign it. It was either sell him or let him go for nothing and if we'd let him go for nothing people would have been on here complaining that we'd allowed that to happen as well.

 

[Rodley]

Berge’s positioning defensively was really smart - you could see him dropping in to block passing lanes constantly. He got up and down the pitch a lot as well and he’s a better defensive player than Hamer. I would have thought his pressing stats would be similar to Hamer in the Champ.

He didn’t have the role to actively press but his positioning provided a base for others to do so.

I think you are being overly generous to Berge about his defensive capabilities. The longer he is gone the better the player he was in some people's eyes. His general approach was to trot back and arrive at the box just as the ball is hitting the back of the net. I am basing my opinion on what I have seen of him for us and at Burnley.

The problem we have is organisation. No concerted effort and no leaders.
[/QUOTE]

It’s all about opinions. With Berge he didn’t tackle / break up play much, but he did do it and I think his work rate was good.

I thought he was a really good box to box player for us, massive for us in terms of transition from defence to attack. His ball carrying particularly around the box, goal threat, ability to make defenders commit to free up space behind was really good. He did plenty of running, but that running was most effective in transition or in the final third. He also passed it forward, through gaps, found players further up the pitch.

 

[Nagima]

I think you are being overly generous to Berge about his defensive capabilities. The longer he is gone the better the player he was in some people's eyes. His general approach was to trot back and arrive at the box just as the ball is hitting the back of the net. I am basing my opinion on what I have seen of him for us and at Burnley.

The problem we have is organisation. No concerted effort and no leaders.

It’s all about opinions. With Berge he didn’t tackle / break up play much, but he did do it and I think his work rate was good.

I thought he was a really good box to box player for us, massive for us in terms of transition from defence to attack. His ball carrying particularly around the box, goal threat, ability to make defenders commit to free up space behind was really good. He did plenty of running, but that running was most effective in transition or in the final third. He also passed it forward, through gaps, found players further up the pitch.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah you are right about opinions. I do think he has talent and can be a threat going forward. I just think that all the good stuff he did was infrequent. We never got the best out of him and in comparison to Ndiaye and MGW he did not demand the ball enough.

Our current situation has been in the making for a long time. Our promotion last season while deserved and welcome glossed over our playing style, formation and player ability. There were plenty of games where we looked clueless yet we managed in the end.

The report that claimed a senior player said to Hecky that morale was on the floor before the season started is a further indication of the disconnect in the club. The graph regarding pressing is just telling us what we see in reality. Poor organisation and a lack of reaction.

I don't mind that we don't press in their half of the field as we are very open on counter attacks and a quick delivery opens us up. I would start the press when the ball gets to our half. The backs should be organised and our midfield and forwards press as a unit. What we are seeing is banks of players standing up while the ball is threaded through them.

Ndiaye and Berge while welcome couldn't make us much better when morale, commitment, tactics, organisation and leadership is lacking.
We are now in the shambolic category and it will need a lot of time to sort out.

 

[Gin&Juice]

I remember the simplest Philosphy was. Make the field bigger when you’re in possession and as small as possible when you’re out. This stat is welcome to my ego, as that’s been my main gripe this season.

Can be pissed off, but have some empathy if we lose by the odd goal to an obvious supperior team, as long as we turned up, and went for it.

Wilder fucking prides himself on that. Arsenal was a disgrace. They’re a good fucking team, and I hope they win the title, and respect them for sticking with Arteta. But, we should be getting in their faces. Making things happen.

I don’t blame the players though. Well I do. But you must give less of a fuck with all the shit that’s going off in the background.

 

[Nicesheffielder]

Reyt toon

 

[Mattblade68]

We're genuinely doing something no other team dare, so why aren't we getting the plaudits for it?

We are not pressing , we are DEpressing

 

[alcoblade]

Exactly. One of the main factors behind our success in the Premier League in the 2019/20 season was not so much a high press, but setting traps and blocking passing lanes. There's been none of that this season.

I know this sounds like me being down on Berge, but our impressive football that season was really before his arrival. The following season we were shite.

 

[Bergen Blade]

There were alarming signs in this respect even before the season started.

It's not certain that we've got the personnel to carry out an effective pressing game at this level though. Quick feet, tenacity and aggression are absolute requirements, yet for a lot of the games we've started midfield combinations including the not-very-mobile partnership of Norwood and Souza, along with the average defensive qualities of Hamer and McAtee. When such a team try to press high, a good opposition will often easily play through it, and create havoc for the defence. I think it's only natural that we dropped deeper and gone for damage limitation. At the start, before teams really got their attacking play going, it saw us lose by not too many goals. Now, we're seeing the long term effects of such a strategy.

Following the resignation of Paul Mitchell, I've seen the matter of a Director of Football has been brought up again. I think it's time to consider it. We do our best, we've achieved promotion to the PL twice in the last few years, so we've clearly done something right. Yet, we've ended up a laughing stock on both occasions, and maybe a lack of long term thinking, planning, strategy is part of the problem.

We try to sign good players. When we miss out we go for the second, third, fourth, fifth choice, and in the process we may have lost what we were really looking for, what team we were looking to build. Heckingbottom was moaning at our lack of signings, even after the season had started. He'd delivered his list of targets, yet it took a long time before the club were able to get someone signed.

When the process is like that, we're likely to end up with a bit random-looking team. Maybe collectively lacking in athleticism or strength. Maybe looking vulnerable at set pieces. Struggling at crosses? Hardly any six footers? Hardly any attacking set piece threats? No commanding centre halves? Too few right footed centre halves? Lacking in aggression, or ability to cope when under pressure? Etc.

A Director of Football may have the ability to look at things more long term. Make sure that the signings we make means we're able to stick to a style, an identity, even when promoted, and not ending up with too many obvious weaknesses. Keeping up to date with the latest trends in football, with an aim to study and learn from the clubs that punch above their weight.

 

[Bath Blade]

The issue with pressing is that we might win the ball, and that’s when it goes wrong.

 

[BerksBlade]

Our ability to press high effectively went out of the door with Ndiaye. None of our current players have that level of tenacity.

 

[Revolution]

He basically did force through a sale with his flip-flopping over signing a new deal. United made him a very good contract offer and he chose not to sign it. It was either sell him or let him go for nothing and if we'd let him go for nothing people would have been on here complaining that we'd allowed that to happen as well.

It was not sell him or let him go for nothing.

It was either sell him at that moment or:

• let him go for nothing
• keep him for Palace etc and see if better offers come in, or even see if he signs a deal
• let him go in January for a fee

It was not a binary choice and it is disingenuous to present it as such.

 

[Pedro Verde]

It was not sell him or let him go for nothing.

It was either sell him at that moment or:

• let him go for nothing
• keep him for Palace etc and see if better offers come in, or even see if he signs a deal
• let him go in January for a fee

It was not a binary choice and it is disingenuous to present it as such.

Keeping him for the Palace game ? why do that, it was obvious he wanted to go to Marseille when they turned his head after the Derby friendly

With regards to January he could have signed a pre contract agreement and gone for nothing in the Summer

 

[Houston_Blade]

Keeping him for the Palace game ? why do that, it was obvious he wanted to go to Marseille when they turned his head after the Derby friendly

With regards to January he could have signed a pre contract agreement and gone for nothing in the Summer

He might also have realised how much he loved it and then signed a new contract.

We’ll never know.

 

[Champagneblade]

There were alarming signs in this respect even before the season started.

It's not certain that we've got the personnel to carry out an effective pressing game at this level though. Quick feet, tenacity and aggression are absolute requirements, yet for a lot of the games we've started midfield combinations including the not-very-mobile partnership of Norwood and Souza, along with the average defensive qualities of Hamer and McAtee. When such a team try to press high, a good opposition will often easily play through it, and create havoc for the defence. I think it's only natural that we dropped deeper and gone for damage limitation. At the start, before teams really got their attacking play going, it saw us lose by not too many goals. Now, we're seeing the long term effects of such a strategy.

Following the resignation of Paul Mitchell, I've seen the matter of a Director of Football has been brought up again. I think it's time to consider it. We do our best, we've achieved promotion to the PL twice in the last few years, so we've clearly done something right. Yet, we've ended up a laughing stock on both occasions, and maybe a lack of long term thinking, planning, strategy is part of the problem.

We try to sign good players. When we miss out we go for the second, third, fourth, fifth choice, and in the process we may have lost what we were really looking for, what team we were looking to build. Heckingbottom was moaning at our lack of signings, even after the season had started. He'd delivered his list of targets, yet it took a long time before the club were able to get someone signed.

When the process is like that, we're likely to end up with a bit random-looking team. Maybe collectively lacking in athleticism or strength. Maybe looking vulnerable at set pieces. Struggling at crosses? Hardly any six footers? Hardly any attacking set piece threats? No commanding centre halves? Too few right footed centre halves? Lacking in aggression, or ability to cope when under pressure? Etc.

A Director of Football may have the ability to look at things more long term. Make sure that the signings we make means we're able to stick to a style, an identity, even when promoted, and not ending up with too many obvious weaknesses. Keeping up to date with the latest trends in football, with an aim to study and learn from the clubs that punch above their weight.

Makes you think as well how those stats would have looked if N’Diaye had stayed.

I always felt he was an excellent first line of defence.

 

[Revolution]

Keeping him for the Palace game ? why do that, it was obvious he wanted to go to Marseille when they turned his head after the Derby friendly

With regards to January he could have signed a pre contract agreement and gone for nothing in the Summer

Why do that. To have a better chance of winning the game. Why do you think?

Yes, he could have done that in January. We could also have got him to go to Marseille earlier for money at that point.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, he is the last player who would have downed tools.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Why do that. To have a better chance of winning the game. Why do you think?

Yes, he could have done that in January. We could also have got him to go to Marseille earlier for money at that point.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, he is the last player who would have downed tools.

Unfortunately he’s had a mixed start at OM and didn’t tear Man City a new one at Wembley last season so all of those wearing Blade tinted specs can insist he’d have been shit and made no difference to us as well as him ‘forcing a move’.

I genuinely believe that in reality, the move by the board to sell him and Berge so close to the season starting completely removed any kind of belief from the remaining players and the manager.

We could have and the pair of them for the season and not bothered signing some of the dross we have, they’d have either left in January with us still rooted or next summer having had a good season with us.

We’d have been gutted to lose them for free but in hindsight the Archer and Hamer deals have been piss poor so we may as well just have let them run their contracts down with the slight possibility that they might change their minds and stay.

 

[Bladezz]

Apologies if this has been posted already, but I thought it was worth sharing. It beggars belief

We have a low block, we don’t have the players or athleticism to press high.

I’m not suprised by this one bit. We didn’t sign any pressing players so surely we don’t expect to press.

Next season we need to revert back and press high up the pitch.

 

[FinBlade]

Ndiaye loves Marseille. Even if he liked his time with us and we certainly liked him he loves Marseille more.
It's like crying after ex partner who has new partner, the one that he/she always wanted/dreamed of instead of you.
Also we have failed to produce any decent attacking game, so how many scoring changes would he even get per game with us anyway?

Berge.. How many would pay Berges trasfer money back to Burnley and swap places with them in league table?
And how many believes Berge would or would have signed new contract with us in current situation?

I just can't see we would had been different by these two only as there has been so many other areas we have troubles.
Our transfer might not have been a spot on, but at least we get Ndiaye money back from Archer plus some PL money for next season.
There will be lot to change/fix tho..

 

[Silent Blade]

Football agents are the root of all evil in modern football. They advise their clients not to risk injuries when they are in their last year of contract. Berge was already a nesh player and he would have been even more nesh if he carried on playing for us this season and then he would leave us for free this summer. I am glad we got 75% of the fee we paid for him back. I am still gutted that Ndiaye left us but there is no guarantee that he would give us 100% effort if he stayed on in his last year of the contract

 

[Bladezz]

Ndiaye loves Marseille. Even if he liked his time with us and we certainly liked him he loves Marseille more.
It's like crying after ex partner who has new partner, the one that he/she always wanted/dreamed of instead of you.
Also we have failed to produce any decent attacking game, so how many scoring changes would he even get per game with us anyway?

Berge.. How many would pay Berges trasfer money back to Burnley and swap places with them in league table?
And how many believes Berge would or would have signed new contract with us in current situation?

I just can't see we would had been different by these two only as there has been so many other areas we have troubles.
Our transfer might not have been a spot on, but at least we get Ndiaye money back from Archer plus some PL money for next season.
There will be lot to change/fix tho..

I see it as we need a brand new team. We need 11 players for sure.

We got promoted with 22 good players. Each position had a back up. We won’t even have a squad now

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

It was not sell him or let him go for nothing.

It was either sell him at that moment or:

• let him go for nothing
• keep him for Palace etc and see if better offers come in, or even see if he signs a deal
• let him go in January for a fee

It was not a binary choice and it is disingenuous to present it as such.

Fair point, however, we know PA is a lover of grid iron and I understand from friends in the USA that if a player is offered a contract with a year to go on their current one, if they don't agree to sign fairly quickly,, they are more or less immediately offered for sale.

Wonder if that thinking comes into play at BDTBL?

 

[LJBlade]

It was not sell him or let him go for nothing.

It was either sell him at that moment or:

• let him go for nothing
• keep him for Palace etc and see if better offers come in, or even see if he signs a deal
• let him go in January for a fee

It was not a binary choice and it is disingenuous to present it as such.

I said our options were to sell him or let him go for nothing. I didn’t say anything about when we could use those options. So other than hoping he might sign a new deal, which wasn’t going to happen, which of your three bullet points is different from what I said?

The fact remains that he didn’t want to be here so a decision on whether to sell him or lose him for nothing needed to be made sooner rather than later.

 

[Revolution]

I said our options were to sell him or let him go for nothing. I didn’t say anything about when we could use those options. So other than hoping he might sign a new deal, which wasn’t going to happen, which of your three bullet points is different from what I said?

The fact remains that he didn’t want to be here so a decision on whether to sell him or lose him for nothing needed to be made sooner rather than later.

You assumed - and from your last sentence you still assume - that it was sell or lose for nothing. That is not true, as I showed in my post above.

 

[Revolution]

Fair point, however, we know PA is a lover of grid iron and I understand from friends in the USA that if a player is offered a contract with a year to go on their current one, if they don't agree to sign fairly quickly,, they are more or less immediately offered for sale.

Wonder if that thinking comes into play at BDTBL?

If it does, it should not, as NFL contracts are ridiculously slanted in favour of the owners. They are non guaranteed, save for the very best players. Of all the major US sports, the players have least power in the NFL.

Hence whilst I am sure the NFL has some things to teach the EPL, adopting their strategy slavishy is dumb, as the "they play best during the last year of their contract" nonsense spouted by our owner shows.

 

[Revolution]

Football agents are the root of all evil in modern football. They advise their clients not to risk injuries when they are in their last year of contract. Berge was already a nesh player and he would have been even more nesh if he carried on playing for us this season and then he would leave us for free this summer. I am glad we got 75% of the fee we paid for him back. I am still gutted that Ndiaye left us but there is no guarantee that he would give us 100% effort if he stayed on in his last year of the contract

We have players with more than a year left on their contract not giving 100 per cent effort. this is a silly argument.

 

[Pedro Verde]

Why do that. To have a better chance of winning the game. Why do you think?

1/2 games then if the transfer doesnt go through to Marseille we have a situation where he signs a pre contract in January and leaves for free this summer

I've said it before and I'll say it again, he is the last player who would have downed tools.

I never suggested he would have downed tools