Pre-Match Police Issues - Bit of an Update

[Blackheath Blade]

Had some really good dialogue with Amanda Jacks at the Football Supporters Federation and she's asked that if anyone wants to send her details/photo's/video of their experiences or observations of the Police operation in the build-up or aftermath of the Sheffield Derby on Sept 25th, they can send it to her directly at [email protected]
She has the details of this thread so will be able to see everything on here. Anything else you'd like to add/say though, please do get in touch with Amanda.
Thanks boys & girls and appreciate this is becoming a bit of a saga but I'm sure the Police would just like it to go away. But with this and the recent piece in the Star, maybe they'll get the message that this is their community asking them questions.
You know - the community they're supposed to serve.
Also thanks to Amanda for picking this up for us.

Nice work on this Mr B. Was good to see you on Saturday.

 

[GodricBlade]

Nice work on this Mr B. Was good to see you on Saturday.

Same goes Mr Blackheath Blade..... Always a pleasure.

 

[FedupBlade]

I have also emailed the FSF and passed on a number of issues raised on the tram back from the Sty by Greater Manchester Police, who couldn't believe that pig fans were allowed to drink outside the pubs on Hillsborough Corner, the reason why so many of us failed to get to the match on time on the tram! Manchester now has a street drinking ban on match days, so that if you're not in a pub there's no reason for you hanging around and can be moved on. They saw this as the first of many mistakes by the SY Police command, one of the funniest things they mentioned was a pig steward opening the gate between the Leppings Lane upper and lower tiers at half time to let a friend through and him being startled that fans poured through the gate to fight!
I don't really see any reason for the FSF meeting the Police about the return leg as we've always been treated like shit by SY Police so no doubt the metal barriers will be up and w'll be funnelled down certain streets to avoid clashes......................plus the pigs are shit and won't come for any trouble!!

 

[More Bladier than thou]

I have had a response from Amanda Jacks from fsf after she has met with Wayne from the SUISA and with Chief Supt Morley on Monday and here are the notes from the meeting.....

Sheffield Derby September 2017

Meeting with Chief Superintendent Shaun Morley, South Yorkshire Police. 13 November

Amanda Jacks Football Supporters Federation

Wayne Denial Sheffield Utd Independent Supporters Association


Due to the high number of supporters who’d contacted us with concerns about some aspects of the policing at the Sheffield Derby in September, Chief Supt Morley of South Yorkshire Police agreed to meet with us to discuss them.

The main issues arising were the escort meaning a large number of SUFC arrived at Hillsborough well into the first half of the game, lack of communication on the day and failure to acknowledge the large number of complaints raised on social media about the policing.

It should firstly be acknowledged that not all supporters has concerns about the policing. Indeed, many were very happy with it, and posted complementary comments on social media. However, that does not negate the views of others, hence the meeting to discuss them further.

Chief Supt Morley explained that Super Trams had provided three additional trams to take SUFC supporters from the town centre to the stadium. He assured us that his officers went into pubs to advise fans of this and of the departure times.

Notwithstanding the provision of the three trams, a large number of SUFC supporters tried to get on the first one. While they were boarding, SYP became aware of a group of SWFC risk fans congregating in a park on the tram route which meant the trams needed to be halted as the risk of their passing the park was too high in terms of disorder breaking out.

The intention was to hold the trams for a very short time, around five minutes while officers dealt with the risk. Once the all clear was given for the trams to start moving again, the stop cord was pulled, passengers disembarked with many refusing to get back on, preferring to walk. This posed a further issue for SYP due to the proximity to Hillsborough Corner. Officers had to be organised to facilitate walking fans to the stadium by which time, the SWFC fans had dispersed.

Chief Supt Morley was clear that SWFC were informed of this and that enough turnstiles were not open was a matter for the club, not SYP.

With regard to the trams being over crowded, Chief Supt Morley suggested that that was a matter for Super Tram, whose staff were there to facilitate safe boarding, and that his offices were there merely to assist in this regard.

Chief Supt Morley acknowledged supporter feedback that communication was not as good as it could be. This is something that he will take up with colleagues. He was just as clear that the operation had to take place as it did as since had it not, there undoubtedly would have been disorder. Chief Supt Morley accepts the disruption and disappointment caused but SYPs duty and obligation to prevent disorder was and is paramount.

The issue of communication was stressed again. The point was further made that after the match SYP ignored all the negative comments while highlighting the positive ones they’d received. Chief Supt Morley accepted Amanda’s point that the vast majority of supporters at the game were those who very likely were part of the local community – those that SYP policed regularly – and that by ignoring their concerns, it had the potential to hinder rather than help good community relations. We were assured that those concerns were properly noted and would be acted on.

With regard to the closure of the London Road, Chief Supt Morley assured us that all publicans had been met with before the game and it had been impressed on them that it was their obligation to manage drinkers and behaviour. The pubs that did close, did so on a voluntary basis.

Finally, with the return fixture fast approaching, Chief Supt Morley agreed it would be both a helpful and positive move to meet with supporter groups ahead of the next fixture and a meeting will be arranged. He also agreed that Amanda Jacks can shadow the policing operation, an invitation that she will gratefully accept.

What happened at the game can’t be changed. What can be changed, however, is the relationship between supporter groups and SYP and we hope that this meeting is a first, positive step towards that. We hope supporters will acknowledge that SYP appreciated the disappointment that a sizeable number of innocent match goers missed a lot of the match and that they recognised there is room for improvement when it comes to communications.

 

[ChrisBlade]

Moderate progress, even though aspects of the justification seem to change every time. Conclusion remains: Avoid the tram and fork out on a taxi next time.

 

[nicksufc]

With regard to the closure of the London Road, Chief Supt Morley assured us that all publicans had been met with before the game and it had been impressed on them that it was their obligation to manage drinkers and behaviour. The pubs that did close, did so on a voluntary basis.

That's not what the people behind the bar at the Barrel or Albion said...

 

[Rusty view]

Syp blame all other parties. Shock horror.

 

[SwissBlade]

Glyn Hodges left foot makes for interesting reading and a much more humble approach from SYP in accepting that they could’ve done better.

One major question and concern I have with this incident is - who was in control? Because SYP seem keen to divert blame to SWFC and the tram. To an extent this is true but the police have ‘match day command’ centres at football grounds and my understanding was that this command centre was where all communication was filtered.

The fact that SYP basically say that it wasn’t their problem that turnstiles weren’t open isn’t good enough. They knew how many fans were coming and they need to be ensuring that the SWFC are doing what they’re supposed to be

Lessons to be learnt for sure

 

[coolhandluke]

Glyn Hodges left foot Lessons to be learnt for sure

If the death of 96 fans hasn't made one iota of a difference then with all due respect what does anyone think will change now ?

SYP are the worst police force in the history of British Policing , fuck the murdering scum .

 

[spongebobblade]

So the 10,000 on Hillsborough corner must have shuffled up to the park then?
Denials, shifting the blame, altering there version of events and of course still no apology to those whom it affected..... and they wonder why the public has such little confidence in them.

 

[RammyBlade]

Notwithstanding the provision of the three trams, a large number of SUFC supporters tried to get on the first one. While they were boarding, SYP became aware of a group of SWFC risk fans congregating in a park on the tram route which meant the trams needed to be halted as the risk of their passing the park was too high in terms of disorder breaking out.........

Call me sceptical but what the fuck kind of disorder could break out with Blades inside the tram and the pigs outside watching as the tram passed -.... and even if the pigs tried to attack then surely the police would have been able to stop that easily. I am ashamed of the South Yorkshire police who have a track record of incompetence and lying to cover their tracks over many years and this is just the latest sad episode !

 

[More Bladier than thou]

The report fails to mention that supertram staff were instructed by police to take the fans, despite being unsafe and overcrowded. They were literally forced, the police say they 'helped' supertram staff, another pack of lies !

 

[Foxy]

In the interests of fair comment, a few bits of note I had first hand experience of:

Notwithstanding the provision of the three trams, a large number of SUFC supporters tried to get on the first one. While they were boarding, SYP became aware of a group of SWFC risk fans congregating in a park on the tram route which meant the trams needed to be halted as the risk of their passing the park was too high in terms of disorder breaking out.

We were in the group waiting for the first tram, having had an 8-10 man police escort for 5 of us from Barkers Pool, to the City Hall tram stop. The police encouraging us to board the tram, encouraged as many as possible on, before removing a few to free up space for other members of the force to accompany them. Supertram staff were on site, including obviously the drivers, but a rather optimistic ticket lady who was trying to take as many fares as possible. One of our group of 5 was trapped on this tram, the other 4 got off.

At this stage, another was approaching from behind and the police on site (who I asked personally) said they weren't sure whether or not there would be space on the second or if it would be full from the previous stops. At this stage, our group decided to go for a taxi instead to avoid the issue... only to then be told by other member of the force while we tried to cross the road, that we'd be okay and they were ensuring dedicated trams got us there in time. We then headed back to the stop and got on the second, slightly more comfortable tram.

The trams were held for a short while next to the city hall, I assumed this was to sort a clear run up West Street, no information was given and the opinion of the force from outside of Sheffield was "Don't know mate, we don't get told the finer details, we just have to go with the flow". I've also seen speculated that during this stoppage and a later one that there was a suspicion that it wasn't safe to move the tram so full - that is merely speculation though.

This doesn't appear to be the delay alluded to above, that was much later and part of a series of stops/delays on the route.

The intention was to hold the trams for a very short time, around five minutes while officers dealt with the risk. Once the all clear was given for the trams to start moving again, the stop cord was pulled, passengers disembarked with many refusing to get back on, preferring to walk. This posed a further issue for SYP due to the proximity to Hillsborough Corner. Officers had to be organised to facilitate walking fans to the stadium by which time, the SWFC fans had dispersed.

Chief Supt Morley was clear that SWFC were informed of this and that enough turnstiles were not open was a matter for the club, not SYP.

All we were told on the day is that the sole reason for the stoppage is that someone on the first tram had pulled the stop cord and that it was their fault, not the fault of the police. For a while, with people getting antagonised, they refused to open the doors of the tram as we'd "soon be setting back off" - folk from the other tram were at this stage quite forcefully trying to get on our tram, with a police officer having to get fairly aggressive with one who was trying to force the doors to get on (at least he wasn't refusing to!). Eventually, one of the police (not SYP) told the driver (without any further radio instructions) to open the door, at which point we made a hasty exit.

Further down the tracks at this stage, riot vans blocked the tracks just the other side of the entrance to Hillsborough Barracks... which is a strange reaction to a trams stop cord being pulled - remember, this was supposedly after the all clear, yet, before the Shoreham View video which shows the apparent reasoning that they were clearing passage.

The SWFC fans causing a threat absolutely had dispersed, because, down to quick thinking and luck, we avoided the police blockage and did on foot the route directly through Hillsborough corner and to the away end.

As we reached the turnstiles (having jogged/run - I got in just before Fleck's goal - after kickoff), they all seemed to be open, there were plenty of stewards and some police... I mentioned the problems to the steward that searched me... at that stage they had plenty of staff around to deal with what was about to come.

Finally, with the return fixture fast approaching, Chief Supt Morley agreed it would be both a helpful and positive move to meet with supporter groups ahead of the next fixture and a meeting will be arranged. He also agreed that Amanda Jacks can shadow the policing operation, an invitation that she will gratefully accept.

This was mooted by a member of the force before the away fixture, and there was indeed some positive dialogue and feedback given... The problem is, that's not really a solution in avoiding the happening we're talking about, the explanation is they had to make split second decisions on the day... there's no predicting that... it's an issue of communication and mistrust in the reasoning given.

 

[BushBlade]

With regard to the trams being over crowded, Chief Supt Morley suggested that that was a matter for Super Tram, whose staff were there to facilitate safe boarding, and that his offices were there merely to assist in this regard.

What? They're the fucking police. The clue is in the name.

 

[flashinblade1889]

I have had a response from Amanda Jacks from fsf after she has met with Wayne from the SUISA and with Chief Supt Morley on Monday and here are the notes from the meeting.....

Sheffield Derby September 2017

Meeting with Chief Superintendent Shaun Morley, South Yorkshire Police. 13 November

Amanda Jacks Football Supporters Federation

Wayne Denial Sheffield Utd Independent Supporters Association


Due to the high number of supporters who’d contacted us with concerns about some aspects of the policing at the Sheffield Derby in September, Chief Supt Morley of South Yorkshire Police agreed to meet with us to discuss them.

The main issues arising were the escort meaning a large number of SUFC arrived at Hillsborough well into the first half of the game, lack of communication on the day and failure to acknowledge the large number of complaints raised on social media about the policing.

It should firstly be acknowledged that not all supporters has concerns about the policing. Indeed, many were very happy with it, and posted complementary comments on social media. However, that does not negate the views of others, hence the meeting to discuss them further.

Chief Supt Morley explained that Super Trams had provided three additional trams to take SUFC supporters from the town centre to the stadium. He assured us that his officers went into pubs to advise fans of this and of the departure times.

Notwithstanding the provision of the three trams, a large number of SUFC supporters tried to get on the first one. While they were boarding, SYP became aware of a group of SWFC risk fans congregating in a park on the tram route which meant the trams needed to be halted as the risk of their passing the park was too high in terms of disorder breaking out.

The intention was to hold the trams for a very short time, around five minutes while officers dealt with the risk. Once the all clear was given for the trams to start moving again, the stop cord was pulled, passengers disembarked with many refusing to get back on, preferring to walk. This posed a further issue for SYP due to the proximity to Hillsborough Corner. Officers had to be organised to facilitate walking fans to the stadium by which time, the SWFC fans had dispersed.

Chief Supt Morley was clear that SWFC were informed of this and that enough turnstiles were not open was a matter for the club, not SYP.

With regard to the trams being over crowded, Chief Supt Morley suggested that that was a matter for Super Tram, whose staff were there to facilitate safe boarding, and that his offices were there merely to assist in this regard.

Chief Supt Morley acknowledged supporter feedback that communication was not as good as it could be. This is something that he will take up with colleagues. He was just as clear that the operation had to take place as it did as since had it not, there undoubtedly would have been disorder. Chief Supt Morley accepts the disruption and disappointment caused but SYPs duty and obligation to prevent disorder was and is paramount.

The issue of communication was stressed again. The point was further made that after the match SYP ignored all the negative comments while highlighting the positive ones they’d received. Chief Supt Morley accepted Amanda’s point that the vast majority of supporters at the game were those who very likely were part of the local community – those that SYP policed regularly – and that by ignoring their concerns, it had the potential to hinder rather than help good community relations. We were assured that those concerns were properly noted and would be acted on.

With regard to the closure of the London Road, Chief Supt Morley assured us that all publicans had been met with before the game and it had been impressed on them that it was their obligation to manage drinkers and behaviour. The pubs that did close, did so on a voluntary basis.

Finally, with the return fixture fast approaching, Chief Supt Morley agreed it would be both a helpful and positive move to meet with supporter groups ahead of the next fixture and a meeting will be arranged. He also agreed that Amanda Jacks can shadow the policing operation, an invitation that she will gratefully accept.

What happened at the game can’t be changed. What can be changed, however, is the relationship between supporter groups and SYP and we hope that this meeting is a first, positive step towards that. We hope supporters will acknowledge that SYP appreciated the disappointment that a sizeable number of innocent match goers missed a lot of the match and that they recognised there is room for improvement when it comes to communications.

Mr Morley seems to like to pass the buck on quite a few issues that arose on the day...............Nowt to do with me guv.

 

[WhiteHawk]

II got in just before Doyle's goal

Are you sure about that?

 

[GV Blade]

Did anybody actually witness any fisty cuffs before, during or after the game ?

 

[Hamburg Blade]

The trams being full wasn't the police's fault. The cord being pulled was not the police's fault. The "risk" fans being allowed to gather was not the police's fault. The police not being ready for a group of fans wanting to walk to the match - clearly an incredibly unusual event - was not the police's fault. It would also appear to be nothing to do with the police that the "risk" fans got bored and dispersed. Problems with turnstiles and getting into the ground was not the police's fault. The police's social media skills could possibly be a little better next time.
Did I miss anything?

 

[SW12 to S12 to S18]

I have had a response from Amanda Jacks from fsf after she has met with Wayne from the SUISA and with Chief Supt Morley on Monday and here are the notes from the meeting.....

Sheffield Derby September 2017

Meeting with Chief Superintendent Shaun Morley, South Yorkshire Police. 13 November

Amanda Jacks Football Supporters Federation

Wayne Denial Sheffield Utd Independent Supporters Association


Due to the high number of supporters who’d contacted us with concerns about some aspects of the policing at the Sheffield Derby in September, Chief Supt Morley of South Yorkshire Police agreed to meet with us to discuss them.

The main issues arising were the escort meaning a large number of SUFC arrived at Hillsborough well into the first half of the game, lack of communication on the day and failure to acknowledge the large number of complaints raised on social media about the policing.

It should firstly be acknowledged that not all supporters has concerns about the policing. Indeed, many were very happy with it, and posted complementary comments on social media. However, that does not negate the views of others, hence the meeting to discuss them further.

Chief Supt Morley explained that Super Trams had provided three additional trams to take SUFC supporters from the town centre to the stadium. He assured us that his officers went into pubs to advise fans of this and of the departure times.

Notwithstanding the provision of the three trams, a large number of SUFC supporters tried to get on the first one. While they were boarding, SYP became aware of a group of SWFC risk fans congregating in a park on the tram route which meant the trams needed to be halted as the risk of their passing the park was too high in terms of disorder breaking out.

The intention was to hold the trams for a very short time, around five minutes while officers dealt with the risk. Once the all clear was given for the trams to start moving again, the stop cord was pulled, passengers disembarked with many refusing to get back on, preferring to walk. This posed a further issue for SYP due to the proximity to Hillsborough Corner. Officers had to be organised to facilitate walking fans to the stadium by which time, the SWFC fans had dispersed.

Chief Supt Morley was clear that SWFC were informed of this and that enough turnstiles were not open was a matter for the club, not SYP.

With regard to the trams being over crowded, Chief Supt Morley suggested that that was a matter for Super Tram, whose staff were there to facilitate safe boarding, and that his offices were there merely to assist in this regard.

Chief Supt Morley acknowledged supporter feedback that communication was not as good as it could be. This is something that he will take up with colleagues. He was just as clear that the operation had to take place as it did as since had it not, there undoubtedly would have been disorder. Chief Supt Morley accepts the disruption and disappointment caused but SYPs duty and obligation to prevent disorder was and is paramount.

The issue of communication was stressed again. The point was further made that after the match SYP ignored all the negative comments while highlighting the positive ones they’d received. Chief Supt Morley accepted Amanda’s point that the vast majority of supporters at the game were those who very likely were part of the local community – those that SYP policed regularly – and that by ignoring their concerns, it had the potential to hinder rather than help good community relations. We were assured that those concerns were properly noted and would be acted on.

With regard to the closure of the London Road, Chief Supt Morley assured us that all publicans had been met with before the game and it had been impressed on them that it was their obligation to manage drinkers and behaviour. The pubs that did close, did so on a voluntary basis.

Finally, with the return fixture fast approaching, Chief Supt Morley agreed it would be both a helpful and positive move to meet with supporter groups ahead of the next fixture and a meeting will be arranged. He also agreed that Amanda Jacks can shadow the policing operation, an invitation that she will gratefully accept.

What happened at the game can’t be changed. What can be changed, however, is the relationship between supporter groups and SYP and we hope that this meeting is a first, positive step towards that. We hope supporters will acknowledge that SYP appreciated the disappointment that a sizeable number of innocent match goers missed a lot of the match and that they recognised there is room for improvement when it comes to communications.

Well from that meeting its quite clear that none of the problems which occurred were any fault of the police!!!!
Just pass the buck as usual. The problem is that they just don't understand the feelings of the people who they are policing and therefore don't treat them with the respect that they deserve.

 

[Sean Thornton]

In the interests of fair comment, a few bits of note I had first hand experience of:



We were in the group waiting for the first tram, having had an 8-10 man police escort for 5 of us from Barkers Pool, to the City Hall tram stop. The police encouraging us to board the tram, encouraged as many as possible on, before removing a few to free up space for other members of the force to accompany them. Supertram staff were on site, including obviously the drivers, but a rather optimistic ticket lady who was trying to take as many fares as possible. One of our group of 5 was trapped on this tram, the other 4 got off.

At this stage, another was approaching from behind and the police on site (who I asked personally) said they weren't sure whether or not there would be space on the second or if it would be full from the previous stops. At this stage, our group decided to go for a taxi instead to avoid the issue... only to then be told by other member of the force while we tried to cross the road, that we'd be okay and they were ensuring dedicated trams got us there in time. We then headed back to the stop and got on the second, slightly more comfortable tram.

The trams were held for a short while next to the city hall, I assumed this was to sort a clear run up West Street, no information was given and the opinion of the force from outside of Sheffield was "Don't know mate, we don't get told the finer details, we just have to go with the flow". I've also seen speculated that during this stoppage and a later one that there was a suspicion that it wasn't safe to move the tram so full - that is merely speculation though.

This doesn't appear to be the delay alluded to above, that was much later and part of a series of stops/delays on the route.




All we were told on the day is that the sole reason for the stoppage is that someone on the first tram had pulled the stop cord and that it was their fault, not the fault of the police. For a while, with people getting antagonised, they refused to open the doors of the tram as we'd "soon be setting back off" - folk from the other tram were at this stage quite forcefully trying to get on our tram, with a police office having to get fairly aggressive with one who was trying to force the doors to get on (at least he wasn't refusing to!). Eventually, one of the police (not SYP) told the driver (without any further radio instructions) to open the door, at which point we made a hasty exit.

Further down the tracks at this stage, riot vans blocked the tracks just the other side of the entrance to Hillsborough Barracks... which is a strange reaction to a trams stop cord being pulled - remember, this was supposedly after the all clear, yet, before the Shoreham View video which shows the apparent reasoning that they were clearing passage.

The SWFC fans causing a threat absolutely had dispersed, because, down to quick thinking and luck, we avoided the police blockage and walked the route directly through Hillsborough corner and to the away end.

As we reached the turnstiles (having jogged/run - I got in just before Fleck's goal - after kickoff), they all seemed to be open, there were plenty of stewards and some police... I mentioned the problems to the steward that searched me... at that stage they had plenty of staff around to deal with what was about to come.



This was mooted by a member of the force before the away fixture, and there was indeed some positive dialogue and feedback given... The problem is, that's not really a solution in avoiding the happening we're talking about, the explanation is they had to make split second decisions on the day... there's no predicting that... it's an issue of communication and mistrust in the reasoning given.

Well he seems to be shying away from the 10000 at HC claim, which isn't surprising when you think about the stupidity of it but is sticking with the lie about the tram stopping because the cord had been pulled. It had been held up before that and DIDNT stop when it was pulled. Nor did the doors open until the driver was told to do so by a non local officer. Getting of the tram you were met with aggressive policing from SYP officers. Those from other forces were apologising and one said it was a shambles.

Re the turnstiles, credit where it's due, again to the officers on the ground, who told the fat laughing steward in no uncertain terms to get more open.

Whether it's a lack of communication or just plain incompetence but considering he's been less than honest about the rest of the day, l'd lean towards the Pigs story being nearer the truth.



SYP. To protect and serve themselves.

Still a disgrace

 

[Sean Thornton]

Well from that meeting its quite clear that none of the problems which occurred were any fault of the police!!!!
Just pass the buck as usual. The problem is that they just don't understand the feelings of the people who they are policing and therefore don't treat them with the respect that they deserve.

They don't care full stop. Look at his tram overcrowding excuse. The police at West Street were involved in getting people on, not Supertram staff. Just covering his own back by blaming someone else.

 

[8lade]

What a shame that like the Police & Crime Commissioner's the chief of police isn't voted on because this Morley is clearly falling short of the required standard. Maybe it's worth contacting the PCC...

 

[Fanny magnet]

Wasn't the cord pulled because people were overheating and feared for their safety

Wish this would have made the national press
They've learned fuck all in thirty years

 

[Robby Blade]

Mr Morley seems to like to pass the buck on quite a few issues that arose on the day...............Nowt to do with me guv.

Not heard that before have we.

I'm of an age where I should be thinking the police are the paragon of virtue, unfortunately I think SYP are a bunch of fucking buck passing liars. It shouldn't have to be so.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Wasn't the cord pulled because people were overheating and feared for their safety

Wish this would have made the national press
They've learned fuck all in thirty years

That's exactly why it was pulled. And the tram didn't stop. I was on it, Morley wasn't and he's lying rather than accept it wasn't the success he claimed in the Star.

 

[west_yorks_blade]

Are you sure about that?

I hope he did that cockney walk in front of the pigs afterwards in this alternative reality.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Not heard that before have we.

I'm of an age where I should be thinking the police are the paragon of virtue, unfortunately I think SYP are a bunch of fucking buck passing liars. It shouldn't have to be so.

The officers are the tram were pretty decent. When they eventually realised it wasn't chock full of BBC and high risk hooligans like they been led to believe, they were sympathetic but said they'd got their orders and they were stuck with them. One eventually broke ranks and got the doors open. No surprise that they were from forces other than SYP.

The ones at and towards the top who did the planning are the ones who want a kick up the arse.

 

[Sean Thornton]

So the 10,000 on Hillsborough corner must have shuffled up to the park then?
Denials, shifting the blame, altering there version of events and of course still no apology to those whom it affected..... and they wonder why the public has such little confidence in them.

Don't forget the back patting on twitter and his nice photo in the Star.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

I have had a response from Amanda Jacks from fsf after she has met with Wayne from the SUISA and with Chief Supt Morley on Monday and here are the notes from the meeting.....

Sheffield Derby September 2017

Meeting with Chief Superintendent Shaun Morley, South Yorkshire Police. 13 November

Amanda Jacks Football Supporters Federation

Wayne Denial Sheffield Utd Independent Supporters Association


Due to the high number of supporters who’d contacted us with concerns about some aspects of the policing at the Sheffield Derby in September, Chief Supt Morley of South Yorkshire Police agreed to meet with us to discuss them.

The main issues arising were the escort meaning a large number of SUFC arrived at Hillsborough well into the first half of the game, lack of communication on the day and failure to acknowledge the large number of complaints raised on social media about the policing.

It should firstly be acknowledged that not all supporters has concerns about the policing. Indeed, many were very happy with it, and posted complementary comments on social media. However, that does not negate the views of others, hence the meeting to discuss them further.

Chief Supt Morley explained that Super Trams had provided three additional trams to take SUFC supporters from the town centre to the stadium. He assured us that his officers went into pubs to advise fans of this and of the departure times.

Notwithstanding the provision of the three trams, a large number of SUFC supporters tried to get on the first one. While they were boarding, SYP became aware of a group of SWFC risk fans congregating in a park on the tram route which meant the trams needed to be halted as the risk of their passing the park was too high in terms of disorder breaking out.

The intention was to hold the trams for a very short time, around five minutes while officers dealt with the risk. Once the all clear was given for the trams to start moving again, the stop cord was pulled, passengers disembarked with many refusing to get back on, preferring to walk. This posed a further issue for SYP due to the proximity to Hillsborough Corner. Officers had to be organised to facilitate walking fans to the stadium by which time, the SWFC fans had dispersed.

Chief Supt Morley was clear that SWFC were informed of this and that enough turnstiles were not open was a matter for the club, not SYP.

With regard to the trams being over crowded, Chief Supt Morley suggested that that was a matter for Super Tram, whose staff were there to facilitate safe boarding, and that his offices were there merely to assist in this regard.

Chief Supt Morley acknowledged supporter feedback that communication was not as good as it could be. This is something that he will take up with colleagues. He was just as clear that the operation had to take place as it did as since had it not, there undoubtedly would have been disorder. Chief Supt Morley accepts the disruption and disappointment caused but SYPs duty and obligation to prevent disorder was and is paramount.

The issue of communication was stressed again. The point was further made that after the match SYP ignored all the negative comments while highlighting the positive ones they’d received. Chief Supt Morley accepted Amanda’s point that the vast majority of supporters at the game were those who very likely were part of the local community – those that SYP policed regularly – and that by ignoring their concerns, it had the potential to hinder rather than help good community relations. We were assured that those concerns were properly noted and would be acted on.

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Finally, with the return fixture fast approaching, Chief Supt Morley agreed it would be both a helpful and positive move to meet with supporter groups ahead of the next fixture and a meeting will be arranged. He also agreed that Amanda Jacks can shadow the policing operation, an invitation that she will gratefully accept.
."
What happened at the game can’t be changed. What can be changed, however, is the relationship between supporter groups and SYP and we hope that this meeting is a first, positive step towards that. We hope supporters will acknowledge that SYP appreciated the disappointment that a sizeable number of innocent match goers missed a lot of the match and that they recognised there is room for improvement when it comes to communications.

"SYP appreciated the disappointment that a sizeable number of innocent match goers missed a lot of the match and that they recognised there is room for improvement when it comes to communications."

After killing 96 I'd have thought an improvement by SYP would be their first priority?

 

[prince albert]

The trams being full wasn't the police's fault. The cord being pulled was not the police's fault. The "risk" fans being allowed to gather was not the police's fault. The police not being ready for a group of fans wanting to walk to the match - clearly an incredibly unusual event - was not the police's fault. It would also appear to be nothing to do with the police that the "risk" fans got bored and dispersed. Problems with turnstiles and getting into the ground was not the police's fault. The police's social media skills could possibly be a little better next time.
Did I miss anything?

I did, The first two goals


And it wasn't my fault