Patience from the players, but lacking from fans?

[Linz]

I've not been posting much this weekend but have been reading... mostly positive stuff.

But did anyone else have fans round them on Friday who were whinging that we were taking too much time over the ball, complaining that we were passing it around the defence too much and generally were displeased at any ball that wasn't a forward one?

We had a few chuntering round us. You could see that United were trying to play a patient, possession game, trying not to panic, and all you could hear was "no... not backwards!" "grrrrr!" "wrong ball!" and the like.

It was pointed out a few times that the opposition can't score when we have the ball and keep it and they were chasing shadows with ten men, but that did little to placate them.

Carsley's chat before the Q&A was mainly a plea for patience from the fans and at the time, I didn't think it was necessary. But we sit fairly near the dugout and it would be naïve to think that the bench and subs aren't hearing some of these complaints. Last season we did panic in possession and Friday night looked different... I don't want a vocal minority putting pressure on the players which leads to mistakes.

I'm not sure what you can do, other than telling them to get real. But it is a concern that if the impatience spreads further, the fans could be heaping problems on to players who have been told by the manager to do one thing but the crowd expects another.

 

[mattbianco1]

I find myself biting my lip at every game. Some fans are just moronic.

I thought it was the best we'd played for 12month or so. Danny Wilson's first season in charge.

 

[Linz]

I find myself biting my lip at every game. Some fans are just moronic.

I think it's an indication that a certain section of fans have missed ever having played football in any sort of capacity. It would however, be highly amusing trying to watch them in a game trying to attack for 90 minutes.

 

[CG Blade]

Oh Yes had the usual one behind me, Didn't like the fancy passing, didn't like passing across the back 4, Midfield were passing to themselves to much. etc etc, I just sat there shouting Ole, every time we made a pass in the second half.

 

[JohnDenver]

Hell is other people.

 

[Guesty]

Yeah there were a few around me who seemed frustrated when we didn't take the first opportunity to shoot or cross.

 

[Putney Blade]

Was pleasing on the eye; can't remember last time I have said that about Utd's style of play. Would rather watch Friday's style than hoofball any time. Probably need to be more incisive and move the ball forward quicker; but hey, that will come in time. Great start!

 

[vorpal blade]

Sad to hear from u Linz and it would have been if I had heard it at the ground, which on Friday, in the Kop, I did not.

As I walk round Doncaster (my town) all I hear is moaning and griping. At Bramall Lane, I am used to hearing idiotic pessimism and I think the perpe-traitors are actually showing off. I know adults who make great play of being scared of spiders or won't get in an aeroplane, as a teenage girl would they think they are somehow showing off. Its perplexing but I think its about lack of education. Its like the irrational dislike of some foodstuffs its about lack of experience, superstition.

It is ignorant to pretend to panic when there is no threat, I see it all the time. Its the north, sad to say its the uneducated and powerless who do it so sad to say, they think they are being 'clever', you see being thick, they have no other way of pretending they are.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

'Twas ever thus. Back in the glory days of the early-mid 70s there were those who moaned about the style of play, even in a season when we missed the league title by a few points.

 

[SwissBlade]

There is a bit of a fine line and I understand that we played well on Friday, but without being negative we were up against 10 men for an hour. But I think football fans are confused.

There are issues with English football and it starts at the top. England believe that keeping possession for 20 mins shows a dominant way of controlling the game, but it's not penetrative... But wait, this is where Steve Gerrard and Beckham come in, chuck Michael Owen, Defoe or Theo Walcott up front and hey presto you can place a 60 yard pass for them to sprint onto. Masses of possession and a superbly placed long ball... Which rarely works! But this is what people are tuned to expect from the national side.

In recent history we've had a number of styles all of which have had their faults. Robson gave is tippy tappy crablike football. Blackwell gave us effective and direct but negative, Wilson gave us passing football but in the end, no cutting edge.

So what are the fans expected to do. I agree that the team and management should request patience from the fans, but they should also be patient with the fans. One good result and performance won't make the season or the career of Weir and his team and if we remember it started well for Wilson, so lets see how things go, but it's encouraging that there are so a many positive vibes even if there are demands for more.

 

[Eskimo]

No I can't say I heard any moaners in the South Stand, in fact it was a very enjoyable evening. I like Friday night football.

By the way The 18k gate was really encouraging too, beaten only by a handful of 4 crowds over the weekend, er, Leeds, Derby, Forest, Reading Oh and Portsmouth just pipped us - and we were on Sky. OK thats 5. QPR were playng a really big club (you might say massive) and attracted fewer spectators

 

[Grecian2000]

Sad to hear from u Linz and it would have been if I had heard it at the ground, which on Friday, in the Kop, I did not.

As I walk round Doncaster (my town) all I hear is moaning and griping. At Bramall Lane, I am used to hearing idiotic pessimism and I think the perpe-traitors are actually showing off. I know adults who make great play of being scared of spiders or won't get in an aeroplane, as a teenage girl would they think they are somehow showing off. Its perplexing but I think its about lack of education. Its like the irrational dislike of some foodstuffs its about lack of experience, superstition.

It is ignorant to pretend to panic when there is no threat, I see it all the time. Its the north, sad to say its the uneducated and powerless who do it so sad to say, they think they are being 'clever', you see being thick, they have no other way of pretending they are.

I think I've just joined the ranks of the thick. Don't understand a word of that.

There were a few wanting a quicker release of the ball near me, particularly late on. I do think it stems from not being comfortable watching centre halves passing the ball around. The perception (and memories of Colquhoun, McPhail, Foran, dare I say our ex-York City CB, et al) that an error is not a million miles away when they try and "play", especially after a good dousing of rain.

As an aside did anyone else see the bat fluttering around the kop in the second half? Never seen that in 50 years!

 

[Darren]

What struck me was that, even after we failed to put the game to bed late on when chance after chance went begging, and even after we realised there were five minutes added time, there was no sense of panic or any real fear that Notts would get an equaliser. We calmly passed it around in their half and they never got a look in. That, for me, was professionalism.

 

[Grecian2000]

What struck me was that, even after we failed to put the game to bed late on when chance after chance went begging, and even after we realised there were five minutes added time, there was no sense of panic or any real fear that Notts would get an equaliser. We calmly passed it around in their half and they never got a look in. That, for me, was professionalism.

Me too Dazzler.

It reminded me of the stuff we started to play immediately after Kendall arrived and in particular when we were 1-0 against the Arse and still kept passing in the last 10 instead of lumping it around..

 

[JohnDenver]

Me too Dazzler.

It reminded me of the stuff we started to play immediately after Kendall arrived and in particular when we were 1-0 against the Arse and still kept passing in the last 10 instead of lumping it around..

And me. Shows how much scuffling we've seen when our collective memory takes us back to 1995.

 

[vorpal blade]

Yes sorry Grecian, I got on my high horse a bit.

I do think there is 'grandstanding' as well there might be in a grandstand and a few idiots who show off by shouting out views that are best kept to themselves and Yes you have reminded me I DID see a bat, or at least I thought I had out of the corner of my eye, its a bit like that with bats.

 

[Bladesman]

I've not been posting much this weekend but have been reading... mostly positive stuff.

But did anyone else have fans round them on Friday who were whinging that we were taking too much time over the ball, complaining that we were passing it around the defence too much and generally were displeased at any ball that wasn't a forward one?

We had a few chuntering round us. You could see that United were trying to play a patient, possession game, trying not to panic, and all you could hear was "no... not backwards!" "grrrrr!" "wrong ball!" and the like.

It was pointed out a few times that the opposition can't score when we have the ball and keep it and they were chasing shadows with ten men, but that did little to placate them.

Carsley's chat before the Q&A was mainly a plea for patience from the fans and at the time, I didn't think it was necessary. But we sit fairly near the dugout and it would be naïve to think that the bench and subs aren't hearing some of these complaints. Last season we did panic in possession and Friday night looked different... I don't want a vocal minority putting pressure on the players which leads to mistakes.

I'm not sure what you can do, other than telling them to get real. But it is a concern that if the impatience spreads further, the fans could be heaping problems on to players who have been told by the manager to do one thing but the crowd expects another.

Proof that the "I love hoofball" brigade are still around.

We kept possession and actually didn't struggle like we normally tend to do against ten men.

 

[Wards]

Gerrit-forrard brigade were in attendance on the JSS. "Gerrit in't box!"

Usually the loudest. Usually the one's who have no idea how to play football.

We seem to have more of this type of moron than most clubs.

 

[oldblade]

There was no moaning at all anywhere near me on the kop, not even when Notts Couinty equalised. Obviously, there were a few sighs of frustration at some of the missed chances, but no one singled any player out for a volley of verbal abuse (which has happened all too often in the past).

Generally it was a very relaxed atmosphere, and when Notts County did score the crowd seemed to become more encouraging rather than critical. Some commented that Maguire was at fault, but they were just observations rather than any attempt to get on the player's back.

It really was a pleasant evening's entertainment, and at no time during the game did I feel a sense of impending doom like I usually do, especially when a thoroughly undeserved equaliser is scored against us.

 

[Racy]

Proof that the "I love hoofball" brigade are still around.

We kept possession and actually didn't struggle like we normally tend to do against ten men.

Loved how we passed it around Doyle, Mcdonald and dare i say it Williams looked different players another thing i noticed was the level of fitness 100% improvement.

 

[broomhillblade]

There is a bit of a fine line and I understand that we played well on Friday, but without being negative we were up against 10 men for an hour. But I think football fans are confused.

There are issues with English football and it starts at the top. England believe that keeping possession for 20 mins shows a dominant way of controlling the game, but it's not penetrative... But wait, this is where Steve Gerrard and Beckham come in, chuck Michael Owen, Defoe or Theo Walcott up front and hey presto you can place a 60 yard pass for them to sprint onto. Masses of possession and a superbly placed long ball... Which rarely works! But this is what people are tuned to expect from the national side.

In recent history we've had a number of styles all of which have had their faults. Robson gave is tippy tappy crablike football. Blackwell gave us effective and direct but negative, Wilson gave us passing football but in the end, no cutting edge.

So what are the fans expected to do. I agree that the team and management should request patience from the fans, but they should also be patient with the fans. One good result and performance won't make the season or the career of Weir and his team and if we remember it started well for Wilson, so lets see how things go, but it's encouraging that there are so a many positive vibes even if there are demands for more.

I agree with that. What I hope the team will do is vary the play between spells of possession and defence-splitting passes (we can always hope!). We've seen in the past occasions when there has been tippy-tappy football which ends up going nowhere (except perhaps to the keeper). If the team continues to win (and hopefully by more than just the odd goal) then hopefully the crowd will be patient. There is still a place for the constructive long pass, however. Spain might be world beaters but even their possession game is very boring to watch at times.

 

[2ndtenorblade]

Yes sorry Grecian, I got on my high horse a bit.

I do think there is 'grandstanding' as well there might be in a grandstand and a few idiots who show off by shouting out views that are best kept to themselves and Yes you have reminded me I DID see a bat, or at least I thought I had out of the corner of my eye, its a bit like that with bats.

Cool!

 

[alcoblade]

Everyone around me, and everyone I've spoken to, including armchair fans and fans of other clubs have been very complimentary about us. There's a few around me who can be whinging bastards, but I didn't notice it the other night.

All good so far, as far as I can see.

UTB

 

[Silent Blade]

I agree with that. What I hope the team will do is vary the play between spells of possession and defence-splitting passes (we can always hope!). We've seen in the past occasions when there has been tippy-tappy football which ends up going nowhere (except perhaps to the keeper). If the team continues to win (and hopefully by more than just the odd goal) then hopefully the crowd will be patient. There is still a place for the constructive long pass, however. Spain might be world beaters but even their possession game is very boring to watch at times.

Fully agree with you that possession and defence-splitting passes bring more success than tippy-tappy football. I remember winning 1-0 against Paul Hart's Notts Forest with 10 mins left in the 2002 FA Cup match. Forest carried on playing tippy-tappy football with 10 mins left and we found it easy to defend the lead by having everyone behind the ball. I found it hard to understand Paul Hart's after match comments saying that he was pleased with his team carrying on to "play the right way". I was pleased that we won with good football last Friday but if with a few minutes left and we needed a goal and the opposition getting everyone behind the ball we need to "surprise" them with different ideas rather than playing tippy-tappy football.

 

[vorpal blade]

"if there was anyone shouting 'get rid' at Bramall Lane on Friday night, I certainly didn't hear it"- Ludwig van Beethoven

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I've not been posting much this weekend but have been reading... mostly positive stuff.

But did anyone else have fans round them on Friday who were whinging that we were taking too much time over the ball, complaining that we were passing it around the defence too much and generally were displeased at any ball that wasn't a forward one?

We had a few chuntering round us. You could see that United were trying to play a patient, possession game, trying not to panic, and all you could hear was "no... not backwards!" "grrrrr!" "wrong ball!" and the like.

It was pointed out a few times that the opposition can't score when we have the ball and keep it and they were chasing shadows with ten men, but that did little to placate them.

Carsley's chat before the Q&A was mainly a plea for patience from the fans and at the time, I didn't think it was necessary. But we sit fairly near the dugout and it would be naïve to think that the bench and subs aren't hearing some of these complaints. Last season we did panic in possession and Friday night looked different... I don't want a vocal minority putting pressure on the players which leads to mistakes.

I'm not sure what you can do, other than telling them to get real. But it is a concern that if the impatience spreads further, the fans could be heaping problems on to players who have been told by the manager to do one thing but the crowd expects another.

I didn't hear any complaints from around me on The Kop. You must be just unlucky enough to sit near some moaning chuffs.
I've consistently said that I just want to see attacking football of any variety and if we have 28 shots every match, you'll get no grumbles from me.
I think you could tell that when we were passing sideways and backwards, it was with the objective of keeping possession until a better forward pass option arose or to change the angle of attack.
That's totally different to passing across the back four simply because there's nobody moving up front and it's the easy option (a la Robson era).

 

[Darren]

Fully agree with you that possession and defence-splitting passes bring more success than tippy-tappy football. I remember winning 1-0 against Paul Hart's Notts Forest with 10 mins left in the 2002 FA Cup match. Forest carried on playing tippy-tappy football with 10 mins left and we found it easy to defend the lead by having everyone behind the ball. I found it hard to understand Paul Hart's after match comments saying that he was pleased with his team carrying on to "play the right way". I was pleased that we won with good football last Friday but if with a few minutes left and we needed a goal and the opposition getting everyone behind the ball we need to "surprise" them with different ideas rather than playing tippy-tappy football.

To be fair, we had loads of penetration in those last few minutes (fnar, fnar). Coady, Taylor and Brandy all missed either open goals or one on ones with the goalie in that period. Add those to Porter's two mised sitters and, with average finishing, a fair result would have been 5-1 or 6-1.

 

[raul]

I think I've just joined the ranks of the thick. Don't understand a word of that.

There were a few wanting a quicker release of the ball near me, particularly late on. I do think it stems from not being comfortable watching centre halves passing the ball around. The perception (and memories of Colquhoun, McPhail, Foran, dare I say our ex-York City CB, et al) that an error is not a million miles away when they try and "play", especially after a good dousing of rain.

As an aside did anyone else see the bat fluttering around the kop in the second half? Never seen that in 50 years!

It's good to have Warnocks Box Blade posting on here isn't it??

 

[sheffielder]

to be fair to some of the fans who were impatient, I got frustrated because of the lack of intelligence of some of our players including Doyle's inability to pass a football without taking a touch and the full backs lack of desire to pass the half way line (although Westlake did improve as the game went on). Obviously we need a striker who has the pace to run the channels. These are all skills needed to pull teams out of shape when playing at home and I think we can all see that.

It's going to be hard for fans to forgive some of the players who remain such as Doyle and Williams for what happened last season and Porter because unfortunately doesn't have the tools to play the lone man.

I am sure the team sees the same work in progress and I am so looking forward to seeing Coady taking over the midfield

 

[Billyblade]

The dick who sat behind me last season used to alternate his outbursts between "Gerrit int box" and "Nooooooo!" when someone did "gerrit int box". He was also prone to slagging players off who weren't even playing and bullshit outbursts.
I would wager that his Christmas tree ended up horizontal, his cat was covered in bruises and his wife was shagging his best mate between 3 and 5 every other Saturday.
Fortunately, taking the tough decision to sack football off for the time being has meant that I don't have to put up with him anymore.