Patience from the players, but lacking from fans?

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Fully agree with you that possession and defence-splitting passes bring more success than tippy-tappy football. I remember winning 1-0 against Paul Hart's Notts Forest with 10 mins left in the 2002 FA Cup match. Forest carried on playing tippy-tappy football with 10 mins left and we found it easy to defend the lead by having everyone behind the ball. I found it hard to understand Paul Hart's after match comments saying that he was pleased with his team carrying on to "play the right way". I was pleased that we won with good football last Friday but if with a few minutes left and we needed a goal and the opposition getting everyone behind the ball we need to "surprise" them with different ideas rather than playing tippy-tappy football.

To be effective the team needs to be good at identifying the situations where they should go forward quickly. This doesn't have to be a long hoof, it can be through positive, passing football when the opposition is a bit sloppy in their defending. We played an impressive game of passing football on Friday, but we didn't score our goals from "patient" attacks with sideways and backwards passes.
 



We played an impressive game of passing football on Friday, but we didn't score our goals from "patient" attacks with sideways and backwards passes.


No. But Notts County didn't score while we were doing that either.
 
Its not going to come good in just 90 minutes . the bleatings of some saying oh it was only 10 men or we didnt score enough , well the main fact was we won, thats the general jist. Man Utd have 400-500 million pounds worth of talent , do they beat everyone out of sight everty game , no they won more than three quarters of their games by the odd goal, why therefore should we expect to win , in our first ever game for half the squad by a country mile. We are starting a new era, things need to gel , the fact we passed with confidence , and more excitingly , accurately , should in game 1 be enough to warm the cockles and other associAated bits. The style was like getting gok wan to make over the missus, a nice surprise,lets enjoy the moment for once eh, lets moan when theres something to moan about, lets just try and look grown up
 
To be effective the team needs to be good at identifying the situations where they should go forward quickly. This doesn't have to be a long hoof, it can be through positive, passing football when the opposition is a bit sloppy in their defending. We played an impressive game of passing football on Friday, but we didn't score our goals from "patient" attacks with sideways and backwards passes.

I thought the first goal came after a decent spell of possession. Didn't it?
I've only seen the full build-up once, live.
 
Overall I'd probably agree that some people are often too quick to complain but there was a passage of play on friday night when we were in possession near the end of the game and we did overpass the ball when there were several clear opportunities for players to have a shot.
 
I thought the first goal came after a decent spell of possession. Didn't it?
I've only seen the full build-up once, live.

Five or six passes, all forward/positive. If Brandy had "patiently" passed it back to a midfielder who'd then rolled it out wide to a standing Westlake it would have been harder to score. There was a moment where Notts County's defence was sloppy and we superbly took advantage of it. See this thread for highlights and a few more comments: http://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/when-did-we-last-pass-so-comfortably.30806/
 
I think I've just joined the ranks of the thick. Don't understand a word of that.

There were a few wanting a quicker release of the ball near me, particularly late on. I do think it stems from not being comfortable watching centre halves passing the ball around. The perception (and memories of Colquhoun, McPhail, Foran, dare I say our ex-York City CB, et al) that an error is not a million miles away when they try and "play", especially after a good dousing of rain.

As an aside did anyone else see the bat fluttering around the kop in the second half? Never seen that in 50 years![/quote]

Its a sign!!
 
I think I've just joined the ranks of the thick. Don't understand a word of that.

There were a few wanting a quicker release of the ball near me, particularly late on. I do think it stems from not being comfortable watching centre halves passing the ball around. The perception (and memories of Colquhoun, McPhail, Foran, dare I say our ex-York City CB, et al) that an error is not a million miles away when they try and "play", especially after a good dousing of rain.

As an aside did anyone else see the bat fluttering around the kop in the second half? Never seen that in 50 years!
No but I did see bats for lashes , on thursday supporting blur , that any help .
 
Anyone would think we were the new Barcelona. :)

A ten man Notts. County is not much of a scalp. Still, a very encouraging start to the new season. Roll on the next few games.

HH
 
Linz

I have fallen into this trap myself in the past. Stood watching us fanny around with it with no way forward.

This did not happen on Friday, and I honk the reason has already been touched on. Movement. There were very few (none) occasions where we were passing it unnecessarily, there was always a forward pass on, and even it he ball did come back there were other forward option on.

As such we looked incisive and, dare I say it, exciting to watch. As attractive as Barca and arsenal are, they aren't half boring sometimes. We were not. Which may be due to the fact I am supporting the team doing the passing, but if this is the kind of play that Pinchy has been talking about for years consider me fully on the bandwagon.
 
Im all for getting it forward quick if we are chasing a game. But when you are winning the match then keep ball is the best way to keep winning the game. After all if they havent got the ball they cant score. Some lovely stuff played on Friday even got the "Ole" after every pass at one point from the back of the Kop
 
I heard no complaints about the style of play and how we went about it on Friday. But..... as (I think) 'Sheffielder' alluded to earlier in the thread, it's certain players who will cop for any need to moan and whinge (this is an inherent condition for some individuals).
A couple of 'blokes near me' were less than patient whenever the ball went near Porter and blamed him for every broken down move even when it was nowhere near him.
And the 'bloke in front' whose sole reason for being at matches last season was to berate Flynn for even daring to breathe the same air as him, was sat there in a state of total confusion and stunned silence as our Ryan ne'er entered the pitch (other than to warm up before and at half time, when an evil glint returned to the aforementioned bloke in fronts eye :confused:)
 
to be fair to some of the fans who were impatient, I got frustrated because of the lack of intelligence of some of our players including Doyle's inability to pass a football without taking a touch
I am sure the team sees the same work in progress and I am so looking forward to seeing Coady taking over the midfield
three touches. you mean three.. thought Coady looked absolute quality.. looked like he'd been there all of his life.. the other players knew it too. they were instantly passing him the ball on every occaision
 
Overall I'd probably agree that some people are often too quick to complain but there was a passage of play on friday night when we were in possession near the end of the game and we did overpass the ball when there were several clear opportunities for players to have a shot.


On the other hand we carved out plenty of chances near the end too, and missed them all!
 



Overall I'd probably agree that some people are often too quick to complain but there was a passage of play on friday night when we were in possession near the end of the game and we did overpass the ball when there were several clear opportunities for players to have a shot.
Arsenal overpass several times every game - its bound to happen when you play a passing game
 
When a ten man team are chasing the game, there is no better way of wearing them them out and frustrating them at the same time, than passing from one side of the pitch to the other and really stretching them. We did that to perfection on Friday night.
 
To be fair, we had loads of penetration in those last few minutes (fnar, fnar). Coady, Taylor and Brandy all missed either open goals or one on ones with the goalie in that period. Add those to Porter's two mised sitters and, with average finishing, a fair result would have been 5-1 or 6-1.

I have said in this forum before that it is easier to get goalchances with passing football when you are winning. When we got our 2nd goal last Friday, it came from a set piece (Maguire was unmarked which was an element of luck for us) and then it got easier for us afterwards as County opened up more, hence the number chances we had in the last 20 minutes. When we need a goal in the final stages of the match it is easier for the opposition to frustrate us if we carry on playing "pretty football". Late winning goals or point savers happened more often in matches under Bassett and Warnock than in matches under managers who want us to play continual passing football
 
I"m no Doyle fan, but any criticism of his performance on Friday defies logic. He was truly excellent.
i agree.. he still needs three touches to control the ball though.. however unlike his predecessor he is able to pass with some accuracy and his second touch isn't usually a tackle
 
Gotta love some fans, screaming as loud as they could to get it in the box and then suddenly cheering like crazy when a patient build up brings a great move and nearly a goal, from the same move.
 
I've not been posting much this weekend but have been reading... mostly positive stuff.

But did anyone else have fans round them on Friday who were whinging that we were taking too much time over the ball, complaining that we were passing it around the defence too much and generally were displeased at any ball that wasn't a forward one?

We had a few chuntering round us. You could see that United were trying to play a patient, possession game, trying not to panic, and all you could hear was "no... not backwards!" "grrrrr!" "wrong ball!" and the like.

It was pointed out a few times that the opposition can't score when we have the ball and keep it and they were chasing shadows with ten men, but that did little to placate them.

Carsley's chat before the Q&A was mainly a plea for patience from the fans and at the time, I didn't think it was necessary. But we sit fairly near the dugout and it would be naïve to think that the bench and subs aren't hearing some of these complaints. Last season we did panic in possession and Friday night looked different... I don't want a vocal minority putting pressure on the players which leads to mistakes.

I'm not sure what you can do, other than telling them to get real. But it is a concern that if the impatience spreads further, the fans could be heaping problems on to players who have been told by the manager to do one thing but the crowd expects another.

The problem as I saw it (on Sky) is that we were constantly trying to proble through the middle rather than getting wide and 'round the back' and when we did, many times we'd go back to the halfway line.
Many times the 3 midfielders would have the option to give the ball to the overlapping Williams and Westlake (in particular) in good positions yet would try and thread a pass through a line of 9 defenders (as happens against 10 men). This happened soooo often last season and resulted in 0-0's or last minute equilisers (Oldham springs to mind) and I don't want us to repeat the same mistakes again. We can't afford another season in this godforsaken league. When we did give it wide we got the first goal, which was as good a move as you'll see. This needed to happen more, and needs to in future games against 11 men.
With regard to 'gerrit int box', when you get into the channel, the ball should be crossed. It is so frustrating to get near the corner flag and go back to the halfway line, especially if we are playing Porter (who would prefer crosses from wide rather than balls into feet or launched from the back). Lumping it in from the halfway line or even 10 yards behind the box is useless, but once you get past your full back you should take the opportunity to get the ball in the box. The more crosses go in, the more goals we'll score. Again, last season Robson and Flynn constantly cut back onto the other foot which allowed defenders time to get back in position. The second goal came from a cross from wide (albeit a free kick).
With regard to passing it around the back, that's all well and good on a great surface, but in Jan & Feb (Yeovil at home springs to mind) they were passing the ball from full back to centre backs, and the pitch was so bad and bobbly it was inevitable that a slip would come. I was amazed that they continued to do this and as sure as night follows day, passing backwards, then backwards resulted in Long gifting them their second goal. Granted this is last season but I don't want to see the same mistakes replicated just because we play nice football on good surfaces in August.
Also, on Friday we really needed to kill the game off with a second goal. While we did create in the 2nd half (which we didn't last season) we're always vulnerable at 1-0 and it just seemed inevitable that they would nick one. At home against 10 men, a second goal would have killed it. How many times last season did we hang on to a 1-0 early in the season, didn't heed the warnings and that turned round during the second half of the season. I'd like us to carry on (at home anyway) and get 2 and 3 and kill games off rather than settle for a 1-0.
Weir promised a change and to be more attacking and to be fair it looks like we will be (Brandy was particularly impressive), but the proof will be in the pudding over coming weeks and one good home game against 10 men doesn't mean there aren't things which need rectifying, otherwise we'll be in this exact same position next year, and the one after..........and the one after........
 

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