Pathway for Youth.

[seanbeenstattoo]

Agree, wonder why he hasn't played for Fleetwood yet?

It`s obvious. He`s being kept out by Cristiano Woolford.

 

[coolhandluke]

Badger and co were before my time but Walker and Jags both easily make it into my best blades 11 of my lifetime. Jags would get in the team in a couple of positions if he could duplicate himself.

Likewise Dane .

Sadly though , as we aren't a pensionable age our views count for fuck all .

Sad but true

 

[Sean Thornton]

Likewise Dane .

Sadly though , as we aren't a pensionable age our views count for fuck all .

Sad but true

 

[Woodwardfan]

Again silly me Pinchy and I thought you said that they "were up against better opposition far more often" or something like , in fact you did.

Pinchy?

Thanks for putting me right Pinchy, just thought they would be disappointed that's all, silly me.






Badger and co. never won a sausage at Bramall Lane of course, but they did play attractive football I agree.

I've seen them all too and love Badger to bits but Walker is World Class and proves it all the time. Naughton is probably a better comparison to Badger who was that bit better I agree; Bernard Shaw nowhere near though. Watched Cec Coldwell play for Harris for years and he certainly had limitations as a player. Graham Shaw was maybe World Class though but he only got a handful of England caps thinking about it.

"When England caps meant something" - to whom? Don't forget you were a starry eyed youngster then, eager,optimistic perhaps, maybe even romantic! Different stage of life I suggest. It's boring talking about the old days as though they were better, it's where "you and a few others go wrong". No point to it unless we make the modern players play in big boots and kick heavy balls on crap pitches.

Pinchy?

Also Pinchy, that "Everton player" - no better than Flynn, Mallender, Munks, Barry Wagstaffe, Bernard Shaw, Helmsley, Richardson, Summers, Tony Wagstaffe, Eddy, Faulkner, Goulding, come on Chum !! Any number of others, want me to name them? Rose coloured spectacles and old age Chum.

We can learn from young Blades, believe me. Experience can complicate things.

 

[coolhandluke]

Pinchy?



Pinchy?

Also Pinchy, that "Everton player" - no better than Flynn, Mallender, Munks, Barry Wagstaffe, Bernard Shaw, Helmsley, Richardson, Summers, Tony Wagstaffe, Eddy, Faulkner, Goulding, come on Chum !! Any number of others, want me to name them? Rose coloured spectacles and old age Chum.

We can learn from young Blades, believe me. Experience can complicate things.

 

[Bladesway]

Pinchy?



Pinchy?

Also Pinchy, that "Everton player" - no better than Flynn, Mallender, Munks, Barry Wagstaffe, Bernard Shaw, Helmsley, Richardson, Summers, Tony Wagstaffe, Eddy, Faulkner, Goulding, come on Chum !! Any number of others, want me to name them? Rose coloured spectacles and old age Chum.

We can learn from young Blades, believe me. Experience can complicate things.

Chum? That's a comment that comes with Pedigree. Welcome back woody, things have moved at such a pace you're almost a sane voice here these days.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Chum? That's a comment that comes with Pedigree. Welcome back woody, things have moved at such a pace you're almost a sane voice here these days.

Thanks my old Chum, Pinchy's mocking sarcasm not mine, I just returned it for effect.

Enjoyed our tussles over the years, shame the club has not made either of our arguments irrelevant even to this day.

I have to acknowledge that keeping Clough would have us better placed at this moment in time but IMO still going nowhere great in the medium term. I struggle to comprehend how badly Adkins fared and I am less than happy about our player signings recently. I've not seen a good team performance this season but I like the application of the players if not the style, method or organisation as yet. However we saw a well worked 'training ground free kick' at Scunthorpe and it's early days I suppose.

This thread is about the Youth Pathway which IMO has been fenced across with double padlocks on the gates. Your man Clough did give youth a chance alongside all his other lightweights and who knows how far that would have taken us by now. As you always said, we will get nowhere without some continuity of manager. I always said "fine, once we have the right manager". Should we give Wilder 4 years come what may? I wouldn't have a clue !! At this stage I hate to say, probably not, it is early days but it all seems so basic and short term as yet. In the final analysis the quality of Academy graduates and new player signings will determine our success because the value of our stock of players is limited as yet. Trouble is that most visitors to Bramall Lane seem to have the extra energy, youth, mobility, power and togetherness - how can that be? We are so limited and need injections of youth and optimism in our play. At least we have a keeper and a centre half at last.

 

[alcoblade]

Thanks my old Chum, Pinchy's mocking sarcasm not mine, I just returned it for effect.

Enjoyed our tussles over the years, shame the club has not made either of our arguments irrelevant even to this day.

I have to acknowledge that keeping Clough would have us better placed at this moment in time but IMO still going nowhere great in the medium term. I struggle to comprehend how badly Adkins fared and I am less than happy about our player signings recently. I've not seen a good team performance this season but I like the application of the players if not the style, method or organisation as yet. However we saw a well worked 'training ground free kick' at Scunthorpe and it's early days I suppose.

This thread is about the Youth Pathway which IMO has been fenced across with double padlocks on the gates. Your man Clough did give youth a chance alongside all his other lightweights and who knows how far that would have taken us by now. As you always said, we will get nowhere without some continuity of manager. I always said "fine, once we have the right manager". Should we give Wilder 4 years come what may? I wouldn't have a clue !! At this stage I hate to say, probably not, it is early days but it all seems so basic and short term as yet. In the final analysis the quality of Academy graduates and new player signings will determine our success because the value of our stock of players is limited as yet. Trouble is that most visitors to Bramall Lane seem to have the extra energy, youth, mobility, power and togetherness - how can that be? We are so limited and need injections of youth and optimism in our play. At least we have a keeper and a centre half at last.

I can't believe you feel so negative about the current setup. Miles off where we need to be, but miles in front of the utter crap of the last few years.

He's finally got rid of the mess of a squad Clough left behind, the few idiots Adkins left behind, got more out of those he couldn't get rid of because of stupidly high wages, and brought in half a squad in a short space if time. That on a tight budget, limited by the resources squandered by numerous predecessors.


What's more, we've got a spirit we haven't seen in almost s decade. I've got my mojo back anyway.

UTB

 

[Bladesway]

Thanks my old Chum, Pinchy's mocking sarcasm not mine, I just returned it for effect.

Enjoyed our tussles over the years, shame the club has not made either of our arguments irrelevant even to this day.

I have to acknowledge that keeping Clough would have us better placed at this moment in time but IMO still going nowhere great in the medium term. I struggle to comprehend how badly Adkins fared and I am less than happy about our player signings recently. I've not seen a good team performance this season but I like the application of the players if not the style, method or organisation as yet. However we saw a well worked 'training ground free kick' at Scunthorpe and it's early days I suppose.

This thread is about the Youth Pathway which IMO has been fenced across with double padlocks on the gates. Your man Clough did give youth a chance alongside all his other lightweights and who knows how far that would have taken us by now. As you always said, we will get nowhere without some continuity of manager. I always said "fine, once we have the right manager". Should we give Wilder 4 years come what may? I wouldn't have a clue !! At this stage I hate to say, probably not, it is early days but it all seems so basic and short term as yet. In the final analysis the quality of Academy graduates and new player signings will determine our success because the value of our stock of players is limited as yet. Trouble is that most visitors to Bramall Lane seem to have the extra energy, youth, mobility, power and togetherness - how can that be? We are so limited and need injections of youth and optimism in our play. At least we have a keeper and a centre half at last.

Had we kept Clough we would be further forward than we are now and have a better idea of how good our Youth setup actually is. Only time will tell but he is making a decent fist of the Championship with Burton. Attacking football seems to be his order of the day. So he either changed his philosophy or perhaps we never went and got him the players he needed? However, we are where we are and Wilder is making progress. Not spectacular progress. The upandatems will be happy because we are finally looking like a team that gives a fuck. That will always get you so far. Do we give him 4 years? No. 2 is ample. No promotion in 2 full seasons (and they would be full) and that is failure for us at this level in my opinion.

My problem is we lack real quality outside Billy and his quality is shooting/scoring. Wins matched but he needs the ball in the box. We have sold all the quality and replaced it with huff and puff. Decent players at this level perhaps, but nothing or no one who stands out and you say "yes he is something better than we have had for some time". I'd give you EEL but he isn't currently ours. Complacency set in under Adkins in my opinion. Clearly too nice and clearly the wrong man in the wrong place. Not a bad manager but not the right manager. Warnock and Bassett were the right men in the right place. Oddly enough similar philosophies as well.

So, the youth of which you speak. I don't see our youth teams play but results are patchy at the moment. I hear a lot about wonder players but somehow they never quite make it at first team level. Clough had a way of doing it. Adkins didn't for whatever reason. What I would say is that surely any manager worth his salt plays what he considers his best XI in the league. No? So if Diego had ever really been stand out, he would have been making starts under Clough you would say? Perhaps we just don't have the players who are actually good enough. Simple as that. Some may shine for a few months but they seem to disappear into nothing. When we let them go they never appear to go onto better things do they? So you can't say they are slipping through the net.

I really think it is that simple. I think the Academy is dead money for a club in the Third division, when Barnsley, Rotherham and the other lot are far better prospects to sign for and that is just in South Yorkshire.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Had we kept Clough we would be further forward than we are now and have a better idea of how good our Youth setup actually is. Only time will tell but he is making a decent fist of the Championship with Burton. Attacking football seems to be his order of the day. So he either changed his philosophy or perhaps we never went and got him the players he needed? However, we are where we are and Wilder is making progress. Not spectacular progress. The upandatems will be happy because we are finally looking like a team that gives a fuck. That will always get you so far. Do we give him 4 years? No. 2 is ample. No promotion in 2 full seasons (and they would be full) and that is failure for us at this level in my opinion.

My problem is we lack real quality outside Billy and his quality is shooting/scoring. Wins matched but he needs the ball in the box. We have sold all the quality and replaced it with huff and puff. Decent players at this level perhaps, but nothing or no one who stands out and you say "yes he is something better than we have had for some time". I'd give you EEL but he isn't currently ours. Complacency set in under Adkins in my opinion. Clearly too nice and clearly the wrong man in the wrong place. Not a bad manager but not the right manager. Warnock and Bassett were the right men in the right place. Oddly enough similar philosophies as well.

So, the youth of which you speak. I don't see our youth teams play but results are patchy at the moment. I hear a lot about wonder players but somehow they never quite make it at first team level. Clough had a way of doing it. Adkins didn't for whatever reason. What I would say is that surely any manager worth his salt plays what he considers his best XI in the league. No? So if Diego had ever really been stand out, he would have been making starts under Clough you would say? Perhaps we just don't have the players who are actually good enough. Simple as that. Some may shine for a few months but they seem to disappear into nothing. When we let them go they never appear to go onto better things do they? So you can't say they are slipping through the net.

I really think it is that simple. I think the Academy is dead money for a club in the Third division, when Barnsley, Rotherham and the other lot are far better prospects to sign for and that is just in South Yorkshire.

Agree with much of that but the prime example in favour of Clough is Louis Reed, who IMO is a quality footballer (same height as Curtis Woodhouse BTW). However the key to any manager's success is signing new players who improve the squad, otherwise don't bother, average or worse new signings can drain the morale of a club, particularly young hopefuls.

Clough believed in him and was on a long term project and invested in him; both subsequent managers are not bold enough to play a quality player for 50 games to bring him on because they are insecure/ popularists.. Jags was distinctly less than average for his first 30 games but paid huge dividends thereafter.

Wilder has accumulated a host of journeymen and has not invested in serious playing time for Lewin, Whiteman, Adams, Reed, K.Wallace.Brooks. Unless he does a whole lot better with his new signings that is the only way we can make big strides. As you have said frequently, as we all have, we have to develop the momentum to be able to retain these type of players for more than their first 50 games, way beyond that. Reed and Whiteman are standing still at present, not even on the bench watching these journeymen do their best at their highest level.

As for the Academy, in the long term it's for when we are up there in the Prem. Our club has to put the things in place for when we realise the owners' ambitions otherwise we will be starting from scratch when we get there,

 

[alcoblade]

Agree with much of that but the prime example in favour of Clough is Louis Reed, who IMO is a quality footballer (same height as Curtis Woodhouse BTW).

Clough believed in him and was on a long term project and invested in him; both subsequent managers are not bold enough to play a quality player for 50 games to bring him on because they are insecure/ popularists.. Jags was distinctly less than average for his first 30 games but paid huge dividends thereafter.

Wilder has accumulated a host of journeymen and has not invest in serious playing time for Lewin, Whiteman, Adams, Reed, K.Wallace.Brooks. Unless he does a whole lot better with his new signings that is the only way we can make big strides. As you have said frequently, as we all have, we have to develop the momentum to be able to retain these type of players for more than their first 50 games, way beyond that. Reed and Whiteman are standung still at present, not even on the bench watching these journeymen do their best at their highest level.

Wow. Clough lumbered us with one of the most relatively expensive piles of shit I've witnessed, and his philosophy is being promoted over Wilder's who's had to deal with the budget that Clough decimated..

I couldn't see it more differently to you.

As for Reid, my guess is he'll sign for someone like Gainsborough in a year or two.

UTB

 

[Woodwardfan]

I can't believe you feel so negative about the current setup. Miles off where we need to be, but miles in front of the utter crap of the last few years.

He's finally got rid of the mess of a squad Clough left behind, the few idiots Adkins left behind, got more out of those he couldn't get rid of because of stupidly high wages, and brought in half a squad in a short space if time. That on a tight budget, limited by the resources squandered by numerous predecessors.


What's more, we've got a spirit we haven't seen in almost s decade. I've got my mojo back anyway.

UTB

Spirit can be very temporary.It all looks fragile to me despite recent good results. It can go either way from here though, that much is true.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Wow. Clough lumbered us with one of the most relatively expensive piles of shit I've witnessed, and his philosophy is being promoted over Wilder's who's had to deal with the budget that Clough decimated..

I couldn't see it more differently to you.

As for Reid, my guess is he'll sign for someone like Gainsborough in a year or two.

UTB

Alco, I was one of Clough's biggest critics in his second year but he did a lot right. Signing new players was his weakest suit.

 

[alcoblade]

Alco, I was one of Clough's biggest critics in his second year but he did a lot right. Signing new players was his weakest suit.

I don't think he did much right at all.

The cup runs were really good fun and he deserves credit for that. But he left behind an utter shambles, on and off the pitch.

With a tiny fraction of the budget, Wilder has built the spine that Clough simply ignored.

UTB

 

[s35blade]

Well for every MaGuire and Lowton, we've got a Philliskirk, Ironside, Slew, McAllister, Kennedy, Harriott, Chapell, Kennedy, Conneely, Tonne, Barry, Whitehouse, Khan, Dimao and McFadzean

 

[larkymasher]

Well for every MaGuire and Lowton, we've got a Philliskirk, Ironside, Slew, McAllister, Kennedy, Harriott, Chapell, Kennedy, Conneely, Tonne, Barry, Whitehouse, Khan, Dimao and McFadzean

Not really sure what your point is?
If you are being serious then you are exactly correct.

For every one that breaks through there are another 50 that don't. That's a fact of becoming a professional footballer.

 

[larkymasher]

Kennedy was not down to ability.... It was down to glass knees

 

[Bladesway]

Well for every MaGuire and Lowton, we've got a Philliskirk, Ironside, Slew, McAllister, Kennedy, Harriott, Chapell, Kennedy, Conneely, Tonne, Barry, Whitehouse, Khan, Dimao and McFadzean

And you expect that from an academy. The annoying bit is the speed we sold the MaGuire and Lowtons. Along with the Adams etc etc.

 

[Woodwardfan]

This thread is fizzling out now and my own conclusion, having listened to others and furthered my own feelings, is that our manager has 3 main opportunities to develop the squad over the next few years. In order of importance bearing in mind the need to lift to the Championship in the next say two years:

1. Organisation, culture and motivation.
2. Quality new signings.
3. Developing the youngsters.

These are maybe the 3 main ways to achieve lasting improvements and I am not sure our signings last summer were good enough to be honest, though it takes time for players to settle and gel and the jury is out as yet.

The organisation, culture and motivation has started to show through but nobody can say we are playing joined up football yet; let's hope it develops.

Our young lads have hardly featured on the bench for league games and not one has got on the pitch yet. The manager must think none of them are good enough or he is having a good look at all his new recruits as stage 1 of his plan. I seriously think Whiteman and Reed are better than a number of the new players and better than one or two of those that have stayed with us. It's all opinion but we need our young lads to contribute to our lasting improvement over the next few years and that will be cost effective and will enhance the spirit of the club amongst players and fans.

In summary we need some average players coming through so we don't have to buy them all. Any stars will be snapped up and provide cash flow for purchases but we need some good solid young pros to stick with us.

 

[PeteBlade]

Having considered all the views of those on this thread, most of who disagree with me, and despite all the evidence to the contrary, I've decided that I was right all along.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Having considered all the views of those on this thread, most of who disagree with me, and despite all the evidence to the contrary, I've decided that I was right all along.

No Pete, having considered all posts I accept that the main priorities are No.1 and No.2 as stated above.

 

[larkymasher]

Having considered all the views of those on this thread, most of who disagree with me, and despite all the evidence to the contrary, I've decided that I was right all along.

Looking at all the posts it is clear no one is demanding putting young players in the team just for the sake of it. What people are saying is if they are deemed good enough then they should be up for selection if they are 17 or 35.....

 

[coolhandluke]

Looking at all the posts it is clear no one is demanding putting young players in the team just for the sake of it. What people are saying is if they are deemed good enough then they should be up for selection if they are 17 or 35.....

I think the real key is who defines what good enough is and what factors they use in making this definition .

More pertinently , given the original question , I think it fair to say that without stable management at first team level there won't be a clear " pathway for youth " and Academy will struggle to produce any first team players .

So in essence I was right

 

[larkymasher]

I think the real key is who defines what good enough is and what factors they use in making this definition .

More pertinently , given the original question , I think it fair to say that without stable management at first team level there won't be a clear " pathway for youth " and Academy will struggle to produce any first team players .

So in essence I was right

The first team manager obviously makes those decisions

I agree fully that without a stable manager in place it is more difficult for young players to push into the first team as a new manager always, always will go for more experience.

If i am reading your post correctly Cool, i think you may well be indeed right.............. but remember others may think you are talking a load of bollocks !!!

 

[Yewsman]

This thread is fizzling out now and my own conclusion, having listened to others and furthered my own feelings, is that our manager has 3 main opportunities to develop the squad over the next few years. In order of importance bearing in mind the need to lift to the Championship in the next say two years:

1. Organisation, culture and motivation.
2. Quality new signings.
3. Developing the youngsters.

These are maybe the 3 main ways to achieve lasting improvements and I am not sure our signings last summer were good enough to be honest, though it takes time for players to settle and gel and the jury is out as yet.

The organisation, culture and motivation has started to show through but nobody can say we are playing joined up football yet; let's hope it develops.

Our young lads have hardly featured on the bench for league games and not one has got on the pitch yet. The manager must think none of them are good enough or he is having a good look at all his new recruits as stage 1 of his plan. I seriously think Whiteman and Reed are better than a number of the new players and better than one or two of those that have stayed with us. It's all opinion but we need our young lads to contribute to our lasting improvement over the next few years and that will be cost effective and will enhance the spirit of the club amongst players and fans.

In summary we need some average players coming through so we don't have to buy them all. Any stars will be snapped up and provide cash flow for purchases but we need some good solid young pros to stick with us.

It would be nice if we could be 3-0 up with 30 minutes to go and then CW could throw some of the youngsters on it would be a good way of giving them experience. Will we ever be that dominant in a game? Hopefully!

 

[Woodwardfan]

Having considered all the views of those on this thread, most of who disagree with me, and despite all the evidence to the contrary, I've decided that I was right all along.

OK Pete you got one like anyway, oh it was Sean Makes it all worthwhile popping in again.

 

[bornablade]

It would be nice if we could be 3-0 up with 30 minutes to go and then CW could throw some of the youngsters on it would be a good way of giving them experience. Will we ever be that dominant in a game? Hopefully!

Nail on the head Yewsman. Wilder has made it quite clear we are not the finished product. We won't become the finished product by using youngsters too early. He's relying on experience to take us to that position and then he'll introduce youngsters carefully. Let's be patient.

 

[blade67]

1 Organisation
2 culture
3 motivation.
(4)2 Quality new signings.
(5)3 Developing the youngsters.

These are maybe the 3 main ways to achieve lasting improvements

That looks like 5 things to me. just saying like

Seriously, to lump the first 3 together is not right, they are three distinct things this club has been poor at generally since Warnock and Dooley left

 

[Woodwardfan]

That looks like 5 things to me. just saying like

Seriously, to lump the first 3 together is not right, they are three distinct things this club has been poor at generally since Warnock and Dooley left

Fair enough, that makes the Pathway 6th priority.

Let's all hope that at least a couple of our youngsters demand inclusion in the first team squad on match-days regularly by the New Year. To do that they will have to outshine a a couple or even more of our summer signings.