Pathway for Youth.

[Woodwardfan]

This is where you, and a few others, go so badly wrong, Woody. "the young lads" are there for the benefit of our club, not the other way round. Their "disappointment" or otherwise is a matter of no consequence whatsoever. They can ease that disappointment by seeking counselling, fucking off, or, best of all, gritting their teeth, getting on with learning their trade and improving. The disappointment should soon subside if they're good enough.

Ironside.......Ironside......

Thanks for putting me right Pinchy, just thought they would be disappointed that's all, silly me.

No they wouldn't. I can assure you. Were you around? The Everton player, as Ted hints, is hugely overrated. When England caps meant something the Everton player would not even have been mentioned.

Badger and co. never won a sausage at Bramall Lane of course, but they did play attractive football I agree.

I've seen them all too and love Badger to bits but Walker is World Class and proves it all the time. Naughton is probably a better comparison to Badger who was that bit better I agree; Bernard Shaw nowhere near though. Watched Cec Coldwell play for Harris for years and he certainly had limitations as a player. Graham Shaw was maybe World Class though but he only got a handful of England caps thinking about it.

"When England caps meant something" - to whom? Don't forget you were a starry eyed youngster then, eager,optimistic perhaps, maybe even romantic! Different stage of life I suggest. It's boring talking about the old days as though they were better, it's where "you and a few others go wrong". No point to it unless we make the modern players play in big boots and kick heavy balls on crap pitches.

 

[Bladey McBladeface]

Be honest, Jags, Cahill, Smalling etc. all have England caps at centre half and they're all bang average. Unfortunately, England caps don't hold the value they once did. Our top level players really aren't all that good, we're in the international doldrums at the moment and centre half is one of our weakest areas.

I will concede that they aren't the finest CB's the land has seen - not compared with Campbell, Terry, Ferdinand, T.Adams, from the recent past.

Jags has however been very consistent and a class act for many, many years. He's 34 now?! and he's been Everton's player of the season in the past.

I'm not sure why we are playing his contribution down. He's a top player and although I'm relatively young, I can't think that many ex Blades CB's have his international pedigree, no matter how nostalgic it may be to argue otherwise.

 

[Pinchy]

Jagielka is currently in his 11th straight year as a first choice player in the top division and has over 30 international caps and has played in the World Cup finals.

The number of United players who have achieved these things is zero.

Overrated? Maybe. World class? No. But the idea that our uncapped defenders from the "glory" years were better than him doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

You Everton fans need a reality check. "England" are a very poor international team and have been throughout your lad's time. In the sixties and seventies they had some proper players. The thought that your lad would displace the likes of Bobby Moore or Colin Todd is a little silly.

 

[Pinchy]

I will concede that they aren't the finest CB's the land has seen - not compared with Campbell, Terry, Ferdinand, T.Adams, from the recent past.

Jags has however been very consistent and a class act for many, many years. He's 34 now?! and he's been Everton's player of the season in the past.

I'm not sure why we are playing his contribution down. He's a top player and although I'm relatively young, I can't think that many ex Blades CB's have his international pedigree, no matter how nostalgic it may be to argue otherwise.

"England" don't have any "top" players and the current pedigree is strictly mongrel, Chum...

It's interesting that the views of those of us who are actually in a position to compare these players are afforded such little weight. As I often say to young tyros, you don't know the value of experience until you have some.

 

[Bladey McBladeface]

"England" don't have any "top" players and the current pedigree is strictly mongrel, Chum...

It's interesting that the views of those of us who are actually in a position to compare these players are afforded such little weight. As I often say to young tyros, you don't know the value of experience until you have some.

Well that was unnecessarily patronising, grandad.

 

[alcoblade]

So setting up the Academy has meant us being in League 1 for the last 6 years ??? Kinell alco , it's one thing being unhappy with the Academy , but is another thing blaming it for our current demise !

And for what it's worth ..... since the Academy was formed we've actually spent more seasons in our " natural habitat " than anywhere else . Do go on though ..... im genuinely interested to see what else the academy has been responsible for . Brexit . The recession . 9/11 ??????

The onus is on you to prove that it's worth it.

Neither of us know those costs, so I'm referring to facts that aren't disputable.

We're a division below where we started. Would we have been even lower without an academy? I suggest not.

Out of hundreds of player year opportunities, about 20 have been filled with with academy players. That's a damming indictment.

We lose bag loads of money, year on year. I'd suggest the academy has added to this.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

Jags, Monty and Tonge were signed by us in the late 1990s before we started having an Academy in 2001 (and well before the Academy centre was built- was it in 2003- or 2004?). Tonge played less than a handful number of Academy matches whilst Jags and Monty have never played in any Academy matches for us

Let's not let the facts spoil a good story.

UTB

 

[Woodwardfan]

The onus is on you to prove that it's worth it.

Neither of us know those costs, so I'm referring to facts that aren't disputable.

We're a division below where we started. Would we have been even lower without an academy? I suggest not.

Out of hundreds of player year opportunities, about 20 have been filled with with academy players. That's a damming indictment.

We lose bag loads of money, year on year. I'd suggest the academy has added to this.

UTB

Player Transfer Fees will have covered most of the costs over the years. It's absolutely true to say that the Academy has not provided enough players, even middle of the road ones for our first team . Too many managerial changes reduce the opportunity for managers to deal with anything other than the short term. Wilder will help develop younger players the longer he stays. Surely we can produce players as good as some of our signings over recent years, including last summer.

I should think the biggest reason to continue the Academy is because our prime objective is to return to the Premier League and when that happens we will enjoy the privileges they have carefully awarded themselves up there and denied to the lower leagues who were bribed and stitched up a couple of years ago.

 

[vorpal blade]

"England" don't have any "top" players and the current pedigree is strictly mongrel, Chum...

Sorry Pal, you've exceeded your pun per sentence quota.

 

[Silent Blade]

I should think the biggest reason to continue the Academy is because our prime objective is to return to the Premier League and when that happens we will enjoy the privileges.

The club decided in 2000 to start an Academy because our prime objective was to return to the PL......................................................................................................

 

[Pinchy]

Sorry Pal, you've exceeded your pun per sentence quota.

Yes I did. You've caught me out, I'll make no bones about it.

 

[Revolution]

You Everton fans need a reality check. "England" are a very poor international team and have been throughout your lad's time. In the sixties and seventies they had some proper players. The thought that your lad would displace the likes of Bobby Moore or Colin Todd is a little silly.

Yeh, who can forget the glorious 1974 World Cup campaign, or Euro 76, or World Cup 78...

Oh

And I'm no Everton fan. I just call things as I see them, rather than tie myself in knots Maintaining a fake persona on the Internet.

 

[Pinchy]

Yeh, who can forget the glorious 1974 World Cup campaign, or Euro 76, or World Cup 78...

Oh

And I'm no Everton fan. I just call things as I see them, rather than tie myself in knots Maintaining a fake persona on the Internet.

If you think this sad and sorry collection, not looking out of place against Malta, are fit to tie the boots of the likes of Moore, Ball, Charlton, Currie, Todd, Hudson, George, Osgood and many many more, who were up against quality opposition far more often, then I'm afraid I must leave the debate and head off to buy my Sunday roast from Iceland. I doubt I'll see any Everton players. They don't visit the Sheffield area.

 

[BushBlade]

The club decided in 2000 to start an Academy because our prime objective was to return to the PL......................................................................................................

And we did. The academy didn't get us relegated, it didn't appoint Robson or Blackwell or Adams. Or Wilson, Weir, Clough and Adkins. Or Robinson or Birch.
Are you saying these managers weren't given enough money? That the money we have saved by not having an academy would have been sufficient to transform this bunch of losers into top class managers who'd have taken us into the PL and kept us there?

I don't believe for one minute that having an academy has played a significant part in our downfall.

 

[Grappler]

Talking of our Academy, looks like a couple of goals for Calvert-Lewin and a penalty save for Ramsdale, well done lads!


Jamie Annerson ‏@jamieannerson Oct 7
Congrats to the lads on int' duty! x2 3-1 wins, a pen save for @AaronRamsdale98 & a brace for academy graduate @CalvertLewin14 @AcademySUFC

 

[coolhandluke]

Talking of our Academy, looks like a couple of goals for Calvert-Lewin and a penalty save for Ramsdale, well done lads!


Jamie Annerson ‏@jamieannerson Oct 7
Congrats to the lads on int' duty! x2 3-1 wins, a pen save for @AaronRamsdale98 & a brace for academy graduate @CalvertLewin14 @AcademySUFC

That's all we fucking well need . Just as things were starting to look positive for us this happens .

Relegation beckons ..... Thank you Academy

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

Thank fuck Calvert-Lewin got a brace. Now I can Rage against the McCabe again.
You cunt selling an obvious next Messi whilst giving that Italian bloke loads of chances when I told you right from the get go he was fucking gash. Sat there in Brussels,never gets a fucking decision right and another thing you...blah blah rant blah fuck blah wanker.rant blah .........

 

[Silent Blade]

And we did. The academy didn't get us relegated, it didn't appoint Robson or Blackwell or Adams. Or Wilson, Weir, Clough and Adkins. Or Robinson or Birch.
Are you saying these managers weren't given enough money? That the money we have saved by not having an academy would have been sufficient to transform this bunch of losers into top class managers who'd have taken us into the PL and kept us there?

I don't believe for one minute that having an academy has played a significant part in our downfall.

Yes we did but only for just one season way back in 2006-07
The longer we are out of the PL the more likely our Academy will eventually become a "White Elephant"

 

[vorpal blade]

I don't believe for one minute that having an academy has played a significant part in our downfall.

OK, if we'd beaten Spurs in the league cup semi-final we'd have got a load more cash to spend on new players - and bigger crowds would have come too.

Had Walker not been playing for them, it would have been more likely we'd have won. So, that in a nutshell is why, if the Academy is not making money for us, running it is having a negative effect in the club. Walker was thrown away for about £2M. He's a reliable England International and WE saw his potential - the powers that be at the club missed it.

 

[Ihadadream]

The Academy has raised in excess of £25 million in transfer fees over the years when you add it all up.....we need to win promotion in order to maintain a 23's and 18's side next year the last thing we need is to go the same way as Donny and pull the U23 side.....as for giving the young lads a chance why rush them league 1 is too physical a battle for the likes of Brooky and Reidy to flourish they are proper ball players look at Reidy's best games all came against better opposition that try and play football. We have a few lads that in 2/3 years time could be regular first team players just need to be patient

 

[alcoblade]

The Academy has raised in excess of £25 million in transfer fees over the years when you add it all up...

I'd be interested to see where that comes from?

 

[wizadry]

I'd be interested to see where that comes from?

The undisclosed book.

 

[Woodwardfan]

If you think this sad and sorry collection, not looking out of place against Malta, are fit to tie the boots of the likes of Moore, Ball, Charlton, Currie, Todd, Hudson, George, Osgood and many many more, who were up against quality opposition far more often, then I'm afraid I must leave the debate and head off to buy my Sunday roast from Iceland. I doubt I'll see any Everton players. They don't visit the Sheffield area.

Sorry Pinchy I'm going to have to do this: Osgood 5 caps, Hudson 2 caps, George 1 cap, Todd 27 caps, Currie 15 caps. we'll give you Moore, Ball and Charlton (presumably Bobby though).

Maybe: Gaga, Lager, Aga, Saga, gaga??!!

Calvert-Lewin plays for Everton by the way, you could easily see him in Iceland (3 International goals this week and all). Some of those players you mention hardly played for the International younger teams never mind score goals for them!!

Stick to Blades stuff old lad and comment on my post 91 on here.

 

[Silent Blade]

Currie 15 caps. .

17 caps!

 

[Woodwardfan]

17 caps!

Yes 17. I'd love to blame Wikipedia but it took me 5 minutes to look them all up and you know how it is, GaGa !!!

I reckon the point is well made though, don't you?

 

[Woodwardfan]

"England" don't have any "top" players and the current pedigree is strictly mongrel, Chum...

It's interesting that the views of those of us who are actually in a position to compare these players are afforded such little weight. As I often say to young tyros, you don't know the value of experience until you have some.

Sorry about the GaGa line Pinchy, I already regret it but it was this post that provoked it. Older Blades should try to encourage younger Blades, not undermine them, Chum.

 

[Silent Blade]

The Academy has raised in excess of £25 million in transfer fees over the years when you add it all up....

Le's look at the players we had at the Academy (since 2001, remember!) that we have sold for £1M at Least

Jacob Mellis £1M
Two Kyles £9M
Lowton £3M
Slew £1M
Maguire £2.5M
DCL £1M

That is £17.5M. Where did the other £7.5M come from??

The building of the Academy and the running costs since 2001 is probably a lot more than £25M! We employ a lot of coaches and they charge £35 per hour! I know we get grants but a former Academy coach told me that the grants for Category 2 is poor

 

[alcoblade]

Le's look at the players we had at the Academy (since 2001, remember!) that we have sold for £1M at Least

Jacob Mellis £1M
Two Kyles £9M
Lowton £3M
Slew £1M
Maguire £2.5M
DCL £1M

That is £17.5M. Where did the other £7.5M come from??

The building of the Academy and the running costs since 2001 is probably a lot more than £25M! We employ a lot of coaches and they charge £35 per hour! I know we get grants but a former Academy coach told me that the grants for Category 2 is poor

I wonder what we might have returned of we'd invested that money in up and coming youth from elsewhere - those actually doing it, in the positions we needed. Murphy, Adams etc.

UTB

 

[Bladesman]

Given our size, we can only have one priority: promotion. Diluting that with any other goals is foolish. The academy seems to pay for itself with sales and provides good facilities for the first team. That's all we need right now. We can look at developing young players when we're an established championship side again and need to find smart ways of competing against clubs with huge parachute payments, by developing our own kids and finding promising players from the lower leagues.
If Brooks, Semple, Whiteman or any of the others force their way through, it's a bonus.

i thought the prince was dipping his hand back into his pocket when we got back to the Championship.

 

[larkymasher]

Le's look at the players we had at the Academy (since 2001, remember!) that we have sold for £1M at Least

Jacob Mellis £1M
Two Kyles £9M
Lowton £3M
Slew £1M
Maguire £2.5M
DCL £1M

That is £17.5M. Where did the other £7.5M come from??

The building of the Academy and the running costs since 2001 is probably a lot more than £25M! We employ a lot of coaches and they charge £35 per hour! I know we get grants but a former Academy coach told me that the grants for Category 2 is poor

I have said before and i will say again, you have no idea what fees we got for the players you have mentioned. You also have no idea how much it costs to run the academy and what funds they receive in grants or sponsorship. Its all guess work.
Once you have this information then i think everyone will listen to your argument... At the moment its just another lame excuse to try and pinpoint why we have been shite for 6 years....
i would suggest looking closer at under performing professional footballers on stupid wages and under performing managers who have been by far a financial drain on the clubs finances than the academy...