Origins of support

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Bert said:
Bert was born here. Geographically he should have been a Wednesdayite.... but he isn't

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Middlewood Mental Hospital?
 



Cerberus Blade said:
Not according to that survey. The way the questions are weighted isn't apparent, but I suspect the main thing that defines "working class" from that survey is how and with whom people socialise most. Working class is often defined by socialising with people with similar interests to themselves. If you take the survey and tick that you"socialise" with people from every one of those occupations it will most likely raise your class standard.

If you want to see evidence of this, why not pop into a working man's social club and see how many people of a professional occupation go there regularly. Some perhaps, but the vast majority will be working class folks.

Working and owning your home does not make you middle class - sorry, but that is totally flawed thinking. It might have stood for that at one time - maybe 50 years ago when many folks didn't own their own homes - but not today. 100% mortgages for first time buyers put paid to that. I remember as a kid in the 1960's and George Best was an icon of the jet set back then. I remember hearing on the news that he was taking a holiday in Majorca - and I thought that must be fantastic to have that kind of lifestyle. It was seen as being something almost impossible to achieve in life, to be able to travel to beautiful Spanish islands like that, to go abroad for a holiday, or to go on a plane even was something most people in the mining community where I lived, had never done or even dreamt of back then.

So it was with car ownership. Very few households where I grew up had a car in the 1960's. Now most households have several. Things have changed a lot. The people of the traditional working classes have more material wealth now than ever before in my lifetime. And good for them! But that doesn't change their class status.

I think "middle class" is actually as much about the way you think about life and the values you have, than material possessions. If you regularly reach for the word "posh" to describe things that are of a higher standard than you are usually familiar with; if you use the same word (or "snob") to describe a person because they don't speak in a broad accent like you do; if you feel threatened by people who wear a matching jacket and trousers for work (a suit); if it annoys or upsets you in some way when people drive a nice car or live in a big house; you are probably trapped in a working class mindset, regardless of your wealth and material possessions. (And that's o.k. by the way - there's absolutely nothing wrong with being working class. That's where I'm from. But the main thing that stops you from aspiring to be different to that is the way you think about it).
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Great post and insight. I think you're right regarding the weighting of the test, as I do have a broad spectrum of friends from all walks of life so perhaps that is why I came back with middle class.

I think I'm a professional (financial advisor) and I have a few friends who are professionals and directors etc. I also have a friend that is a nurse a cleaner and a bricklayer. I like people for who they are not what they do or how they live etc.
 
Cerberus Blade said:
Not according to that survey. The way the questions are weighted isn't apparent, but I suspect the main thing that defines "working class" from that survey is how and with whom people socialise most. Working class is often defined by socialising with people with similar interests to themselves. If you take the survey and tick that you"socialise" with people from every one of those occupations it will most likely raise your class standard.

If you want to see evidence of this, why not pop into a working man's social club and see how many people of a professional occupation go there regularly. Some perhaps, but the vast majority will be working class folks.

Working and owning your home does not make you middle class - sorry, but that is totally flawed thinking. It might have stood for that at one time - maybe 50 years ago when many folks didn't own their own homes - but not today. 100% mortgages for first time buyers put paid to that. I remember as a kid in the 1960's and George Best was an icon of the jet set back then. I remember hearing on the news that he was taking a holiday in Majorca - and I thought that must be fantastic to have that kind of lifestyle. It was seen as being something almost impossible to achieve in life, to be able to travel to beautiful Spanish islands like that, to go abroad for a holiday, or to go on a plane even was something most people in the mining community where I lived, had never done or even dreamt of back then.

So it was with car ownership. Very few households where I grew up had a car in the 1960's. Now most households have several. Things have changed a lot. The people of the traditional working classes have more material wealth now than ever before in my lifetime. And good for them! But that doesn't change their class status.

I think "middle class" is actually as much about the way you think about life and the values you have, than material possessions. If you regularly reach for the word "posh" to describe things that are of a higher standard than you are usually familiar with; if you use the same word (or "snob") to describe a person because they don't speak in a broad accent like you do; if you feel threatened by people who wear a matching jacket and trousers for work (a suit); if it annoys or upsets you in some way when people drive a nice car or live in a big house; you are probably trapped in a working class mindset, regardless of your wealth and material possessions. (And that's o.k. by the way - there's absolutely nothing wrong with being working class. That's where I'm from. But the main thing that stops you from aspiring to be different to that is the way you think about it).
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What you're trying to say then is "once a pleb, always a pleb"!
 
Caveblade said:
If our support was all middle class, by the reasoning of this board they would all sit in the Westfield upper and they don't, therefore they aren't.

The whole supposition is rediculous, both clubs will have a spread of support from different classes, areas and occupations. What happened 50 to 100 years ago is largely irrelevant as we all now have a mobility that makes it simple to get from one side of the city to the other , so geographical influences on club preference have gone.

I don't understand the pride in being a working class club, I am just proud of my club regardless of the demographic of people who support it.

The obvious difference between Blades and Wednesday fans is intelligence. In my experience, Blades are generally quite savvy well balanced individuals whilst Owls fans tend to be deluded and educationally sub normal.
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Wednesday fans deluded, are you sure? :D



 
fuerstenberger said:
I was in Blighty a few weeks ago. I met up with some of my Sheffield cousins in Wales by way of a reunion. One uncle, now 93, a staunch socialist and a mitwoch fan, explained his reasons for supporting them lot. He said, Mitwoch were always the working class club and United the middle class club. I was the only Blade in 7. To be fair, they were all balanced in their views, none of the 'massive' hyperbole one would expect. Is the old man's rationale, regarding support, correct? I have never heard that before.
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As an exile myself, as far as I understand it there are some areas of Sheffield where to call the local residents working class is an insult to the working class!
 
Kenilworth said:
Imagine my dismay at opening this thread only to find that it has absolutely nothing to do those over the shoulder boulder holders containing some of the best bits or an interesting and informative series on the origins of strappage de jock pour l'homme.
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Ffs kenilworth..... it wouldn't be allowed in the ground, even if you removed the pyro and your dog
 
fuerstenberger said:
I was in Blighty a few weeks ago. I met up with some of my Sheffield cousins in Wales by way of a reunion. One uncle, now 93, a staunch socialist and a mitwoch fan, explained his reasons for supporting them lot. He said, Mitwoch were always the working class club and United the middle class club. I was the only Blade in 7. To be fair, they were all balanced in their views, none of the 'massive' hyperbole one would expect. Is the old man's rationale, regarding support, correct? I have never heard that before.
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yeah cos Jordo Lowedges Gleadless Heeley and Woodseats are so terribly posh
 
Sheffsteel said:
Working class is the new middle class

Because we now have a new category called the "under class", to them anyone who works and doesn't claim benefits is obviously posh/ middle class.

Agree the boundaries are all merged making it very difficult to generalise.
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middle class never existed.. they all work.. they're just working class people with a higher credit limit
 
BushBlade said:
That's not true. Not even in the eighties. There's always been middle class supporters at the Lane, sat in the new stand and the old John Street and driving home in their decent motors after. I bet plenty on here in the 40-60 age group grew up in the suburbs, in houses their parents owned.
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nah .. you couldn't buy council houses then
 



Sean Thornton said:
Once living at both Fulwood and Lodge Moor my experience is exactly the opposite. Full of Pigs.

As for flat caps, look at old old photos if football crowds, everyone wore one.

Can I sell you a baby unicorn?
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I'm from Lodge Moor and I can confirm its generally more Wednesday than United but usually the support swings between who is the better team. Fulwood the same and to be honest neither is exactly the hot bed of football fans! But to be fair to the pigs they have do have support from the working class areas such as Parsons Cross, Shiregreen etc - solely because they're near the sty. We tend to dominate in the South and in particular the south east of the city.
 
bornablade said:
Quite the opposite. The Blades always represented the working classes of the city. Wednesday were middle class business owners. Mainly butchers who always closed their businesses on a Wednesday in order to participate in recreational activities. They felt it necessary to remove their blue and white striped aprons and replace them with similar coloured striped shirts.

This is well documented in many books.
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Load of rubbish, Wednesday were formed by steel workers called "little Mesters" not business owners, they were formed off their own hard work. For the first 20 years Wednesday played near Bramall Lane, this gave them long enough to form enough of a supporter base to follow them to Hillsborough as it was well connected via trams. Both clubs have and have have had working class support. The demographic thing is a load of rubbish
 
Cerberus Blade said:
Wednesday were formed by " wealthy traders" yes some were butchers, but all had money.

When United were formed it caused a lot of resentment as Wednesday didn't like the idea of competition on their doorstep taking their trade.

United also undercut Wednesdays admission prices in order to attract local support. That didn't go down too well either. United set out to appeal to the working class man from the off. We still undercut them now and offer much better value for money!
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More ill informed rubbish. The founders of Wednesday were working class people who mostly worked in the steel industry, and didn't necessarily have money. The founders of United were actually wealthy businessmen who owned Bramall Lane and needed a football team to generate revenue. This is well documented and is found by doing research.

The only reason United undercut Wednesday wasn't to appeal to working class people, but to get people into Bramall Lane for money! They were no working class hero's, it's the whole Gary Neville Super League situation in the 19th century
 
Rodley said:
Nailed it.

SUFC always had a bit more swagger, a bit edge to it and a bit more subversive. Wendy were the establishment team.
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Establishment team? You were formed by wealthy businessmen who owned Bramall Lane. Wednesday were formed by workers
 
Klaatu Barada Nikto said:
All the posher kids at my school (City) supported Wednesday.
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It wasn’t necessarily on posh vs not posh grounds in my youth, but always had Wendy down as sad b*st*rds. Definitely a different breed. The type to try (unsuccessfully) to start a conga on the dancefloor on a night out.

This carries through with wearing grass skirts away at Norwich, Clive Betts / Tango being their superfan(s) and their love of Lonsdale pumps.
 



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