Nice to see Ched silencing the doubters

[LoughboroBlade]

But some experts on here insisted that Ched was finished. They said he struggled at a relegated league 1 side last season and could never regain his 2012 form after not playing football for 4 years. Many said Wilder had blundered because it could take years for Ched to find any form and even then he would be past it.

This is as big of a strawman argument I've read for a while. I don't think anyone said that Evans wasn't capable of playing football (I.e "finished"), but the key here has (and always has) been whether he can do it consistently at this level. And frankly even without the niggling injuries and absence from the game, there was still a massive doubt given his previous lacklustre record with us at this level.

He has taken one step forward on the path to proving doubters wrong, but this is a long path that he's nowhere near completing I'm afraid, though I hope he does. At the moment, suggesting he's proven everyone wrong after last night is like suggesting Wallace after his sub appearance at Peterborough 2 years ago, or Beattie after his sub appearance against Stevenage, had proven the doubters wrong. Those didn't end well, and fans would be wise not to go overboard off one successful sub appearance.

 

[Blade1771]

We all need to have a look at the facts.

Ched Evans in the eyes of the law is an innocent man. In a court of law his conviction was quashed. It doesn't matter if people like it or not. Legally he has the right to be treated as any other person should be.

I don't think that he should be singled out for any special treatment either, and we shouldn't be too quick to judge him for a good while yet. He has had 4 years out of the game, and one injury hit year at Chesterfield in the last 5 years so he is more than likely at the minute not to be the player he was once was at the minute, and there is still a lot of work to do if he is even to become half the player he once was.

I thought he did well when he came on last night, his had a noticable effect when he came on, which he did for probably the least effective player in the side last night. He showed some glimpses of what he is capable of, and that was pleasing to see, but for the minute I still think that he is a long way off 20 goals a season and an automatic starting place, but if he keeps working hard it can happen again.

 

[DronnieBlade]

I really don't want to go through the whole Ched discussions again, but a fan can surely believe he we shouldn't have resigned him because of his previous unprofessional actions which brought the club significant negative publicity? Add to that the amount of money he took out of the club for a single season return, a season which were torpedoed largely through his own actions.
You don't have to agree with those points, but it's a valid footballing opinion which can be freely aired for discussion, and I personally can see why some fans don't want him back and wish we'd gone for another option without necessarily agreeing.

If you don't want him at our club because he's a rapist, then that is something entirely different.

And that's the point Bob. Nail on head.

Some folks just can not make the distinction between "valid football opinion" and the rest of the baggage, which has precisely fuck all to do with football. Nada.

It's old news. Old hat. Today's fish and chip paper. Irrelevant.

The ONLY thing that matters is that Evans contributes positively on the pitch. Nothing else matters.

Isn't it ironic that the do gooders that were so anti Ched in the first place have now mostly gone rather quiet, while a decent section of the supporters of the club that now employs him continue this ridiculous witch hunt.

Innocent. Innocent then, innocent now, innocent till the end of time.

Not really that difficult, is it ??

UTB

 

[Sheffsteel]

This is as big of a strawman argument I've read for a while. I don't think anyone said that Evans wasn't capable of playing football (I.e "finished"), but the key here has (and always has) been whether he can do it consistently at this level. And frankly even without the niggling injuries and absence from the game, there was still a massive doubt given his previous lacklustre record with us at this level..

Agree the 'finished" quote wasn't that he literally couldn't play football again;
The comment was related to anybody having 4 years out of the game could never get near his former ability again.
Many quoted how he struggled to score at Chesterfield inferring he's would be league 2 level when he finds his form. The finished quote referred to him being finished in top level football.

We don't know about fitness yet but I went last night and based on ability he showed signs that he's a class above league 1 level.
Just based on 40 minutes any neutral intelligent observer would say Ched is comfortably better than Hanson and Lavery
I didn't expect that after being out for so long, so I've learnt something.

Of course it's very early days.
It reminds me of the adulation over Brooks who did very little last night and was under par BUT he produces odd moments of class.
Some of Brooks first touches and the way he glides past his man with ease is really impressive.
Brooks clearly has loads of talent but I also saw last night that Ched still has loads of talent, it's a good start.

 

[coolhandluke]

Some of us remain of the view Evans shouldn't be playing in a United shirt and that won't change whether he scores 35 or 5 goals this season.
Hopefully we aren't about to become defined by a player instead of the team we once again became last season.

I really don't want to go through the whole Ched discussions again, but a fan can surely believe he we shouldn't have resigned him because of his previous unprofessional actions which brought the club significant negative publicity? Add to that the amount of money he took out of the club for a single season return, a season which were torpedoed largely through his own actions.
You don't have to agree with those points, but it's a valid footballing opinion which can be freely aired for discussion, and I personally can see why some fans don't want him back and wish we'd gone for another option without necessarily agreeing.

If you don't want him at our club because he's a rapist, then that is something entirely different.

With all due respect FB Pedro's view isnt a ' valid footballing ' opinion . If it was then Ched scoring 35 goals in a season would change his view . Furthermore , Pedro's view that the whole Ched situation could undermine the team ethic that's been created and nurtured at the lane does nothing but undermine our manager . CW signed Ched . CW believes he has a lot to offer . But despite CW's numerous statements that no one player regardless of who they are is bigger than the team Pedro insists that Cheds signing will destroy our whole team ethic .

Pedro's views on the whole Ched situation are views based upon issues of morality. To then attempt to draw footballing concerns from his moralistic views is wholly disingenuous and wrong .

Funny thing is , whilst I fundamentally disagree with Pedros opinion i actually admire the courage he exhibits in his convictions . He has a real problem with us signing Ched and he's prepared to stand by this view REGARDLESS of how he plays . But while I admire his tenacity I do wish he wouldn't try to dress his issues of morality up as footballing concerns.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

He got a fantastic reception from the South Stand tonight

Thank you for posting that - it SUMS up the whole situation as to what the MAJORITY now think about Ched Evans.

I seem to recall quite a fair amount of vitriol towards Nigel Clough on this forum. yet he received loads and extended applause when he first brought Burton to the Lane.

Once again, there seems nothing mightier than anonymous keyboard warriors wanting to have a continued dig.

UTB..........and well done to the club for managing his comeback effectively and to Ched Evan - the FOOTBALLER..

 

[Sheffsteel]

With all due respect FB Pedro's view isnt a ' valid footballing ' opinion . If it was then Ched scoring 35 goals in a season would change his view . Furthermore , Pedro's view that the whole Ched situation could undermine the team ethic that's been created and nurtured at the lane does nothing but undermine our manager . CW signed Ched . CW believes he has a lot to offer . But despite CW's numerous statements that no one player regardless of who they are is bigger than the team Pedro insists that Cheds signing will destroy our whole team ethic .

Pedro's views on the whole Ched situation are views based upon issues of morality. To then attempt to draw footballing concerns from his moralistic views is wholly disingenuous and wrong .

Funny thing is , whilst I fundamentally disagree with Pedros opinion i actually admire the courage he exhibits in his convictions . He has a real problem with us signing Ched and he's prepared to stand by this view REGARDLESS of how he plays . But while I admire his tenacity I do wish he wouldn't try to dress his issues of morality up as footballing concerns.

Good post, you've hit the nail on the head there.

There was a fair few posters saying we shouldn't have Ched back based on football reasons, as he's been out of the game for 4 years he can never be anywhere as good again, he's finished at top level football and would now be a journeyman at league 2 level. He will have lost his pace and will be permanently injury prone.

All valid arguements but it does make you wonder what % of posters not wanting Ched for football reasons actually hid behind that argument because the truth is they just don't want him here, full stop.

If they feel so strongly about it then stick by your principles, stop going to matches until he's gone
But you'll find loads of unsavoury characters in every team, you'd never go to any matches, where do you draw the line?

Also what about compassion/ forgiveness, being punished and moving on etc.
Some of our posters need to look within themselves.

 

[Pedro's Winger]

My view isn't a footballing opinion on his ability though it's fair to say he did nothing for two years and then had one very good season at League One level.
My view isn't that Evans or anyone else shouldn't have the ability to go back to work after they've been in prison or done what he did.
My view is that by coming back here United play to the gallery that always thought he did nothing wrong and also that we do run the danger of everything becoming focussed on someone who had absolutely nothing to do with last season and the rebirth of the club.

 

[Sharrow Snuff Mill]

My view isn't a footballing opinion on his ability though it's fair to say he did nothing for two years and then had one very good season at League One level.
My view isn't that Evans or anyone else shouldn't have the ability to go back to work after they've been in prison or done what he did.
My view is that by coming back here United play to the gallery that always thought he did nothing wrong and also that we do run the danger of everything becoming focussed on someone who had absolutely nothing to do with last season and the rebirth of the club.

The law said he did nothing wrong. Please acknowledge that. Any discussion about behaviour/ morals now belongs elsewhere.

 

[Harrisblade]

Thank you for posting that - it SUMS up the whole situation as to what the MAJORITY now think about Ched Evans.

I seem to recall quite a fair amount of vitriol towards Nigel Clough on this forum. yet he received loads and extended applause when he first brought Burton to the Lane.

Once again, there seems nothing mightier than anonymous keyboard warriors wanting to have a continued dig.

UTB..........and well done to the club for managing his comeback effectively and to Ched Evan - the FOOTBALLER..

It's very difficult to use these forums as any sort of guide to what supporters really feel about anything.
As keyboard warriors we are a tiny number compared to an actual match attendance - even one of only 5,000 hardy souls

 

[Pedro's Winger]

The law said he did nothing wrong. Please acknowledge that. Any discussion about behaviour/ morals now belongs elsewhere.

He was eventually found not guilty which isn't the same as he did nothing wrong.
The reality is we had a good number of supporters who thought he did nothing wrong regardless of the courts and still do.
The issue with him coming back here is that it plays to those people.

 

[Sirius]

He was eventually found not guilty which isn't the same as he did nothing wrong.
The reality is we had a good number of supporters who thought he did nothing wrong regardless of the courts and still do.
The issue with him coming back here is that it plays to those people.

Give it a bone

 

[Sharrow Snuff Mill]

He was eventually found not guilty which isn't the same as he did nothing wrong.
The reality is we had a good number of supporters who thought he did nothing wrong regardless of the courts and still do.
The issue with him coming back here is that it plays to those people.
He did nothing wrong in the eyes of the law. You may think he did something wrong, but that is a personal opinion based upon a moralistic view, to which everyone is entitled.

 

[Grappler]

For what it's worth, he played ok last night, seemed fit enough and showed flashes of his pre-prison self.

On one occasion, he left his marker standing and only the fact that the ball had too much pace, coming over the top and into the keepers hands, saved Walsall from a one-on-one with Ched and their keeper. I have no doubt that he would have slotted that home, had the ball fell more kindly.

He hit the ball like a rocket for the goal, and his assist for Thomas (who I thought had a very good game and could become a very tidy player for us over the course of this season), was pin point accurate.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

You know who you are.

All my doubts with Evans surround his fitness and are still present. I have no doubt he is a good footballer. He showed it at times for Chesterfield last season (including against us). It’s whether he can get fit enough to be a regular player in our team that remains the big question. I hope he can. Time will tell.


It might go some way to silencing the (admittedly small) “he’s shit” brigade though.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Wait until after the Boro game when the Sharp&Clarke can't play together brigade come back out of hiding and want Evans to start because he got an assist.

2 assists. And won the free kick for the 3rd goal. In about half an hour’s game time in a match where we’d struggled to create anything before he came on. He got the MoM award which is rare for a player coming on as a 2nd half sub. Lots of positives to take from that. It doesn’t conclusively prove what his contribution will be like going forward but as much as people can criticise Lundstram’s performance, they are entitled to get excited about a positive performance from Evans.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Those of us with common sense were quietly waiting to see what he did but there is a group who can't wait for him to fail and yes that is anybody who has questioned whether he is good enough before he's played a game in anger. Why am I so certain? Well if you have questioned every player you think isn't going to make it at Championship level, you are excused. The rest you may not even know you are doing it but ask yourself this question: why pick on one player?

Because that 1 player’s circumstances are unique meaning nobody can predict with any certainty how his physical conditioning will turn out. We still can’t. Last night should have gone some way to reassuring people he still has ability. But it doesn’t satisfy the longer term fitness concerns that many will still have. It's natural to scrutinise more closely based on the unique circumstances.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I have 2 daughters,and if either one of them acted like the slag Ched went with I'd disown them and top myself for failing them so miserably.
He was innocent of any crime! Fuck morals,we've all shagged a bird we shouldn't have

That’s an incredibly archaic view. You’d disown your daughters and top yourself for getting drunk and having a 3-way they couldn’t remember? Really? She was a grown woman and it’s her choice if she wants to drink alcohol or engage in casual sexual encounters. 99% of the time, she wouldn’t be harming anyone by doing so. Neither of those activities makes her a terrible person. Society continues to hammer women for embracing their sexuality whilst taking the view that it’s Ok for men (I don’t know if you share that view but “we’ve all shagged a bird she shouldn’t have” seems a lot more accepting of such behaviour from men). The bias that still exists even in these supposedly more enlightened times is incredible.


All that said, I agree with you about Ched, his innocence, his right to resume his career, and I share your hope that he will be a big player for us.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Agree "glimpses" being the key word.

For anyone that didn't go tonight, Ched wasn't brilliant tonight and not yet at the level of Sharp or Clarke but Ched did show little touches and glimpses that he's still got it and could be a big asset and that was my main question about him.

Similar with young Brooks, overall he wasn't great tonight, some poor free kicks and poor decision making but Brooks shows glimpses of real talent way above league 1 level. He sometimes goes pass players as though they aren't there and shows some wonderful flicks and quick passing. A long way from the finished article but Brooks is clearly extremely talented.

It pleases me that we have the option of 2 players like Evans and Brooks for our bench in league games. Neither is yet at a level to command a starting place and need to establish some consistency and prove themselves but we have 2 players capable of producing a moment of magic to help turn a game. Chuck Duffy and Lavery into the mix and our options from the bench in an attacking sense look good.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Its just one of the very many things I find more interesting to debate than Ched Evans. Other examples include: the best way to peel a banana? Why is a tomato a fruit? How long does bread have to be in a toaster before it can reasonably be considered toast? And what is wrong with people who prefer ketchup to Brown sauce?

Woah….. It’s not as simple as preferring ketchup to brown sauce. It’s much more nuanced than that and depends entirely on what it’s accompanying. If there is bacon, there simply has to be brown sauce. Ketchup will not do. However, for say, a sausage sandwich, or an egg sandwich, ketchup certainly has it’s place. Or for some, even on a greasy chip butty.

 

[Pedro's Winger]

It is a personal opinion and one that's shared by plenty.
The law didn't matter to too many of our supporters and Evans's actions still don't matter to too many of our supporters.
All that matters is whether he scores goals.
Whether the hero worship is a good thing in a wider sense isn't something that bothers people who think football is more important.
I think there's a wider perspective to how the club handled the whole episode which doesn't reflect well and trivialised things that were and are more important than football.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

And that's the point Bob. Nail on head.

Some folks just can not make the distinction between "valid football opinion" and the rest of the baggage, which has precisely fuck all to do with football. Nada.

It's old news. Old hat. Today's fish and chip paper. Irrelevant.

The ONLY thing that matters is that Evans contributes positively on the pitch. Nothing else matters.

Isn't it ironic that the do gooders that were so anti Ched in the first place have now mostly gone rather quiet, while a decent section of the supporters of the club that now employs him continue this ridiculous witch hunt.

Innocent. Innocent then, innocent now, innocent till the end of time.

Not really that difficult, is it ??

UTB

With all due respect FB Pedro's view isnt a ' valid footballing ' opinion . If it was then Ched scoring 35 goals in a season would change his view . Furthermore , Pedro's view that the whole Ched situation could undermine the team ethic that's been created and nurtured at the lane does nothing but undermine our manager . CW signed Ched . CW believes he has a lot to offer . But despite CW's numerous statements that no one player regardless of who they are is bigger than the team Pedro insists that Cheds signing will destroy our whole team ethic .

Pedro's views on the whole Ched situation are views based upon issues of morality. To then attempt to draw footballing concerns from his moralistic views is wholly disingenuous and wrong .

Funny thing is , whilst I fundamentally disagree with Pedros opinion i actually admire the courage he exhibits in his convictions . He has a real problem with us signing Ched and he's prepared to stand by this view REGARDLESS of how he plays . But while I admire his tenacity I do wish he wouldn't try to dress his issues of morality up as footballing concerns.

Thanks for the reply fellas.

DronnieBlade - I was anti-Ched coming back for reasons I've gone through on here many times and some could be considered moral positions and others footballing. However I've gone quiet because I've had my say, my view hasn't changed particularly, and I don't want him to fail just to prove me right. Do I want him to be a huge success? In all honesty I'm pretty ambivalent to it all? We do need someone to get 15-20 goals this season and if that's Evans then I'm certainly not going to grumble about it, but in an ideal world I'd just rather it be someone else. So long as he's wearing the Blades shirt all power to his elbow.

coolhandluke - Yeah I probably muddied the waters by linking it to Pedro's response. I'm not aware of his opposition or where it's basis lies. I just that I think there is a footballing argument for fans not wanting Ched back which can include the possible negative impact to the club, which touches on the moral side of the argument. Do they now need to wait and see what happens? Most certainly but crowing posts like this thread after one game is always going to bring them out.

Basically this is going to run and run isn't it?

 

[Sheffsteel]

It is a personal opinion and one that's shared by plenty.
The law didn't matter to too many of our supporters and Evans's actions still don't matter to too many of our supporters.
All that matters is whether he scores goals.
Whether the hero worship is a good thing in a wider sense isn't something that bothers people who think football is more important.
I think there's a wider perspective to how the club handled the whole episode which doesn't reflect well and trivialised things that were and are more important than football.

But you raking over old ground.
They were the arguements from 2 years ago and at the time had a level of validity.

Legally he is now not guilty so the above now becomes irrelevant.

You seem to be quoting morals but there are no morals in football, some of the stuff is obsene.


Think you need to choose another sport that's not so tribal. Name me a club that has took a moral stance against a top player? Cantona did the karate kick attacking a fan but as he was their best player Fergie supported him. Saurez bites players on neck and shockingly is proven to be a rascist but as he's their best player the Liverpool players and fans go out of their way to support a rascist. There's several violent convicted criminals playing football but clubs and fans have accepted them.

or why not simply do a personal boycott of United but you are in a very small minority and to be fair with Ched in the team crowds/ income is more likely to increase rather than decrease.

Admire your morale stance though and respect your honesty.

 

[DronnieBlade]

But you raking over old ground.
They were the arguements from 2 years ago and at the time had a level of validity.

Legally he is now not guilty so the above now becomes irrelevant.

You seem to be quoting morals but there are no morals in football, some of the stuff is obsene.
Think you need to choose another sport or why not simply boycott United but you are in a very small minority and to be fair with Ched in the team crowds/ income is more likely to increase rather than decrease.

Admire your morale stance though and respect your honesty.

What morale stance ?

Let's assume it was your son, a young naive 20 something year old son, who did EXACTLY what Ched did. You would be pissed off he done what he done, but would be mortified if he had to pay for his actions with 2.5 years at her majesty's pleasure. On top of which then followed all the Hatchet, Dame Jessica bullshit.

Would your son, in these circumstances be deserving of such treatment ? Would you be in support of all this in order to "teach him a lesson" ?

The time must surely now have come when we can put ANY morale issues of that fateful night to one side, allowing Ched, his family, and in purely selfish terms, the club we support to move forwards.

He made a mistake. No one died. The only person (s) wronged in this whole saga were Ched's family and fiancé. They have moved on. Why can't people who have nothing to do with the individual, and who's bearing on their own lives depends not one jot, do the same ??

UTB

 

[The white wall]

Ched looked quality last night as did one or two others. Ran the channels, dropped deep, showed good strength and was constantly wanting the ball. Great moment for him too when he got off the bench ready to come on as you could visibly see his confidence grow with the fantastic reception he got from south stand.

 

[JJBlade]

Hope he can get back to something like he was before he was taken away from us

He absolutely terrorised League One defences and I'm sure he would have been more than comfortable in the Championship the season after.

All ifs, buts and maybe's but I'm sure he'd have been a top player for us

 

[Pedro's Winger]

But you raking over old ground.
They were the arguements from 2 years ago and at the time had a level of validity.

Legally he is now not guilty so the above now becomes irrelevant.

You seem to be quoting morals but there are no morals in football, some of the stuff is obsene.


Think you need to choose another sport that's not so tribal. Name me a club that has took a moral stance against a top player? Cantona did the karate kick attacking a fan but as he was their best player Fergie supported him. Saurez bites players on neck and shockingly is proven to be a rascist but as he's their best player the Liverpool players and fans go out of their way to support a rascist. There's several violent convicted criminals playing football but clubs and fans have accepted them.

or why not simply do a personal boycott of United but you are in a very small minority and to be fair with Ched in the team crowds/ income is more likely to increase rather than decrease.

Admire your morale stance though and respect your honesty.

But there being no morals in football (I think there are still some) doesn't mean I have to accept attitudes I know are wrong or not hold an opinion.
And being found not guilty doesn't magically erase all that's gone before or mean that those attitudes are no longer an issue.
I was at the Lane long before Evans and touch wood will still be after he's gone.
I thought about not going this season but decided I would. If things get ugly I'll have a decision to make on whether it's worth it or not.

 

[Pedro's Winger]

What morale stance ?

Let's assume it was your son, a young naive 20 something year old son, who did EXACTLY what Ched did. You would be pissed off he done what he done, but would be mortified if he had to pay for his actions with 2.5 years at her majesty's pleasure. On top of which then followed all the Hatchet, Dame Jessica bullshit.

Would your son, in these circumstances be deserving of such treatment ? Would you be in support of all this in order to "teach him a lesson" ?

The time must surely now have come when we can put ANY morale issues of that fateful night to one side, allowing Ched, his family, and in purely selfish terms, the club we support to move forwards.

He made a mistake. No one died. The only person (s) wronged in this whole saga were Ched's family and fiancé. They have moved on. Why can't people who have nothing to do with the individual, and who's bearing on their own lives depends not one jot, do the same ??

UTB

That's the kind of attitude that is part of the problem.
You can only see it through Evans's eyes and not the woman.
The only person wronged, somehow, is Evans.
And that's what United are playing to.

 

[Blade for Sale]

We're getting Twitter grief for even mentioning his name... from Blades fans who presumably followed us because they wanted to know what was happening in the match.

Sigh.

You should refer to him as Voldemort in all future references from now on for shits and giggles.

 

[DronnieBlade]

That's the kind of attitude that is part of the problem.
You can only see it through Evans's eyes and not the woman.
The only person wronged, somehow, is Evans.
And that's what United are playing to.

The law and the justice system, confirms that Evans has indeed served 2.5 years of his life for a crime he did not commit ? On top of it is the now perpetual motion of "hate and anger" directed his way at every available opportunity. If that had happened to me, I'd be pretty fucking cheesed off to say the least.

Try and have another look through "her" eyes. She didn't cry rape. She didn't report a crime (until prompted by old bill). Why might that be ?

Not going over this again. It's been done to death.

My over riding emotion is that Ched was wrongly convicted. Was then, is now. I wish to focus ENTIRELY on what he does for SU on a football pitch.

GLTTL.

UTB