Nice to see Ched silencing the doubters

[andy m]

As has been said before he is a good player and he changed the game on Tuesday regardless of the opposition. But there is a massive difference between a good player and a good man! I am coming round to the fact he plays for us. In my red and white shirt so I support him and the team. I don't think I'm the only one who finds it difficult to like the situation, but I also feel 2years in jail for his actions is punishment enough! But still I honestly feel conflicted I have a teenage son and my attitude if he was to follow this example would be very different to my view of how I would react if either of my daughter's had been involved in this incident. Ched is a blade, so has my support, but yes I'm conflicted! But he has quality no doubt!

2 years in jail for cheating on his girlfriend is punishment enough!!! Wow you are one ruthless bastard. How long would you give him if he actually committed a crime?

 

[Sheffsteel]

Adebo,

Over 10 years ago I used to go out drinking/ night clubbing with a nice lad who didn't think he'd had a good night unless he ended the night having a 1 night stand. He wasn't that good looking and I asked him what the secret of his success was and he replied that he deliberately targetted "ugly drunk birds' (his words) and tells them what they want to hear and it worked 90% of the time. He told me he'd slept with over 200 women and told me stories where he'd woke up in bed with girls and they were really embarrassed not remembering clearly how they ended up there and asked him to leave. When i heard of the Ched situation it made me think back to my friend. I've also seen with my own eyes how drunken women can become sexual predators, as bad or worse than men, groping any man trying to force them to have sex with them. It's a very old fashioned view that women are the fairer sex, in the real world some are just as preditory as men.

That's the problem.
The kids programmes on MTV, Geordie Shore etc show open drunken debauchery and infer free sex as almost "normal behaviour".
They make it appear that having a threesome with strangers is just a bit of a giggle for the more open minded.
I've spoke to women who don't think what the girl or Ched did was shocking. One actually said to me "if you haven't had a threesome in an hotel room then you've had a shallow upbringing, hasn't everyone had threesomes with strangers"?

Mix our sexual society, different moral values from one extreme to another with excessive alcohol intake and these cases can become a bit of a mess. I'm uncomfortable with the events too but then I snap out of it and realise that the truth is that almost every player will have done something distasteful. I'm not being asked to be Cheds mate, he's just a footballers playing for this club.

 

[adebo]

2 years in jail for cheating on his girlfriend is punishment enough!!! Wow you are one ruthless bastard. How long would you give him if he actually committed a crime?

This is why the whole ched debate is devicive opinions are passionately polarised!

 

[Jehovah]

I wonder if Pedro felt so strongly about Marlon King who sexually molested girls in public and smashed their face in when they complained?

I know which I think was worse.

If you deny a man the right to rebuild his life after having it ruined by the Courts of Justice, what kind of person are you?

Exactly. He smashed my face in once and I still cheered when he scored

 

[JJ Sefton]

It's all very similiar to the vitriol aimed at Justine Gatlin.

He was on oestrogen?

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Adebo,

Over 10 years ago I used to go out drinking/ night clubbing with a nice lad who didn't think he'd had a good night unless he ended the night having a 1 night stand. He wasn't that good looking and I asked him what the secret of his success was and he replied that he deliberately targetted "ugly drunk birds' (his words) and tells them what they want to hear and it worked 90% of the time. He told me he'd slept with over 200 women and told me stories where he'd woke up in bed with girls and they were really embarrassed not remembering clearly how they ended up there and asked him to leave. When i heard of the Ched situation it made me think back to my friend. I've also seen with my own eyes how drunken women can become sexual predators, as bad or worse than men, groping any man trying to force them to have sex with them. It's a very old fashioned view that women are the fairer sex, in the real world some are just as preditory as men.

That's the problem.
The kids programmes on MTV, Geordie Shore etc show open drunken debauchery and infer free sex as almost "normal behaviour".
They make it appear that having a threesome with strangers is just a bit of a giggle for the more open minded.
I've spoke to women who don't think what the girl or Ched did was shocking. One actually said to me "if you haven't had a threesome in an hotel room then you've had a shallow upbringing, hasn't everyone had threesomes with strangers"?

Mix our sexual society, different moral values from one extreme to another with excessive alcohol intake and these cases can become a bit of a mess. I'm uncomfortable with the events too but then I snap out of it and realise that the truth is that almost every player will have done something distasteful. I'm not being asked to be Cheds mate, he's just a footballers playing for this club.

I understand what you're saying, but the law is pretty clear and it would seem that your mate is a predatory rapist. "Everybody does it" isn't much of an excuse (particularly as it isn't true). It's nothing to do with an old fashioned view that women are the fairer sex and everything to do with consenting and having the ability to consent. We've developed a culture where the lines have become so blurred that people fall foul of the law without realising it, and without thinking they're doing any harm. I agree that TV isn't helping at the moment and I don't see it improving. In the meantime, men who don't quite realise what a dangerous game they're playing will occasionally get hauled before the courts. I don't see how the law can possibly be changed without giving a green light to sexual predators, so ultimately there will have to be a change in attitude towards drunk women.

 

[Sheffsteel]

He was on oestrogen?

Noticed I'd called him Justine instead of Justin, it's the autocorrect playing up again.

 

[Sheffsteel]

I understand what you're saying, but the law is pretty clear and it would seem that your mate is a predatory rapist. "Everybody does it" isn't much of an excuse (particularly as it isn't true). It's nothing to do with an old fashioned view that women are the fairer sex and everything to do with consenting and having the ability to consent. We've developed a culture where the lines have become so blurred that people fall foul of the law without realising it, and without thinking they're doing any harm. I agree that TV isn't helping at the moment and I don't see it improving. In the meantime, men who don't quite realise what a dangerous game they're playing will occasionally get hauled before the courts. I don't see how the law can possibly be changed without giving a green light to sexual predators, so ultimately there will have to be a change in attitude towards drunk women.

Totally agree and my mate possibly is technically a rapist, along with 100's, maybe 1000's of other lads every weekend.
I suppose the difference is he chatted to these women, spent time with them, got in a taxi together, no struggle so theres is an arguement that her actions over 45 mins plus made him think he had reasonable consent, pulling a bird at the end of the night is fairly common and this is probably why Clayton MacDonald was found innocent. However Cheds situation was more opportunistic, he just turned up and as she didn't struggle and seemed agreeable he naively presumed he had consent.

I do cringe though when I've seen "Geordie Shore" "Brits abroad in Maguluf" etc, where the programme makers are almost glamorising getting paralytic and having loads of continuous one night stands. As I've said for some young women having threesomes with 2 footballers is hardly a big deal, for some women it's something they fantasise about. People have very different values and morals these days when it comes to sexual activity hence why the Ched case split opinions so much.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I wonder if Pedro felt so strongly about Marlon King who sexually molested girls in public and smashed their face in when they complained?

I know which I think was worse.

If you deny a man the right to rebuild his life after having it ruined by the Courts of Justice, what kind of person are you?

Persnally. I felt far worse about King playing for us than Evans. Even before the acquittal. People like King who offend over and over again and show no signs of rehabilitating, choosing to bully others using violence etc. are scum in my book. Same goes for twats like Ranger, Barton, Madine etc.


They have far less right to play professional football than Evans in my book (though technically, in accordance with the principle of rehabilitation, they do have the right- the issue for me is that the sentencing for repeat offenders, especially violent ones, is far too light in my opinion).

 

[1danewhitehouse]

He did nothing wrong other than cheat on his missus, proven fact.

Not a proven fact at all. That's like saying there was nothing remotely untoward about Redknap/ Mandaric and Rosie the bulldog's financial transactions. There are still question marks over the issue of consent and the moral v criminal standard of “taking advantage”/ rape etc. and the grey area in between. He was found not guilty on re-trial with the criminal standard of proof meaning there was reasonable doubt over his guilt. People can still have their own opinions on his actions and how right or wrong they were. I can see why some people will dislike him based on his actions. But they pale into insignificance when you consider others such as Ranger/King etc. who were given chance after chance. They also pale into insignificance in comparison to the punishment he’s served for those actions. He absolutely should be allowed to play (and I’m pleased he’s back at United). But it’s not unreasonable for people to find him distasteful.

 

[BigBed]

I'm not a fan of that Korean chap if that helps??

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I understand what you're saying, but the law is pretty clear and it would seem that your mate is a predatory rapist. "Everybody does it" isn't much of an excuse (particularly as it isn't true). It's nothing to do with an old fashioned view that women are the fairer sex and everything to do with consenting and having the ability to consent. We've developed a culture where the lines have become so blurred that people fall foul of the law without realising it, and without thinking they're doing any harm. I agree that TV isn't helping at the moment and I don't see it improving. In the meantime, men who don't quite realise what a dangerous game they're playing will occasionally get hauled before the courts. I don't see how the law can possibly be changed without giving a green light to sexual predators, so ultimately there will have to be a change in attitude towards drunk women.

I don’t think choosing “drunk ugly birds” to try to shag on a night out makes him a rapist in itself. Being drunk doesn’t mean she lacks capacity and each case would have to be judged on it’s own merits. If someone is disinhibited through alcohol consumption, that doesn’t automatically mean they don’t have capacity to consent so there’s every chance that his mate is not a rapist but I agree when you say the lines have become blurred and people are straddling them without even realising it. I’m not sure there’s a fix in terms of changing the law. I think the issue is that meeting prospective sexual partners seems to go hand in hand with excessive alcohol consumption in the society we live in. Many young people enjoy a night out, getting drunk and “on the pull”. It happens in a safe and harmless manner all the time. But there are cases where people drink too much and it goes beyond disinhibition and then the other person needs to have the presence of mind to identify that and cease. Problem is, when you have two drunken people, you might have one that slips beyond the capacity line and that doesn’t but the one that doesn’t is still in such a state of impairment that they hold a belief in consent even if such a belief is not reasonable meaning that rape would have occurred. The lines around both capacity and reasonable belief in consent are grey issues that can cause all sorts of problems in today’s culture of nights out “on the piss” and “on the pull”.

 

[coolhandluke]

This thread , fascinating though it is , needs moving . It has nothing to do with Sheffield United .

 

[Th!stledo]

This thread , fascinating though it is , needs moving . It has nothing to do with Sheffield United .

Totally agree. I am only interested in what Ched can do as a footballer. Gossip mongers and self-righteous hypocrites really need to move on to forums that pander more to their needs.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

I don’t think choosing “drunk ugly birds” to try to shag on a night out makes him a rapist in itself. Being drunk doesn’t mean she lacks capacity and each case would have to be judged on it’s own merits. If someone is disinhibited through alcohol consumption, that doesn’t automatically mean they don’t have capacity to consent so there’s every chance that his mate is not a rapist but I agree when you say the lines have become blurred and people are straddling them without even realising it. I’m not sure there’s a fix in terms of changing the law. I think the issue is that meeting prospective sexual partners seems to go hand in hand with excessive alcohol consumption in the society we live in. Many young people enjoy a night out, getting drunk and “on the pull”. It happens in a safe and harmless manner all the time. But there are cases where people drink too much and it goes beyond disinhibition and then the other person needs to have the presence of mind to identify that and cease. Problem is, when you have two drunken people, you might have one that slips beyond the capacity line and that doesn’t but the one that doesn’t is still in such a state of impairment that they hold a belief in consent even if such a belief is not reasonable meaning that rape would have occurred. The lines around both capacity and reasonable belief in consent are grey issues that can cause all sorts of problems in today’s culture of nights out “on the piss” and “on the pull”.

Specifically in Sheffsteel's mate's case and the way he describes it, I doubt he went his entire life without crossing that line, my guess would be regularly. In times past people were not as aware of rape and the law and the police/cps were not as keen to prosecute, these days men with that kind of lifestyle are risking a life-ruining incident. During and after both cases I tried to think how the law was wrong, but couldn't come up with any satisfactory way that the law could be changed.
I still think that what Evans did was rape, I think his second trial was wrong and the verdict possibly reflected that he'd already served his time, we'll never know, but I feel his punishment has been too harsh and it is no bad thing for him to have been aquitted and be able to pick up his life. The reaction from the feministas was appalling and detached from any perspective of the case. Unfortunately it will take a long time to die down, which is why I and many others didn't want him to continue his career with us, but he's here now so I hope he can settle in and do well. SUFC signing King was just an embarrassment, I don't think Evans's signing comes anywhere close to it, but he's still going to have to take a lot on the chin for the rest of his career. He appears to have made a pretty good start but he's going to have to do a lot better than last time in the Championship if he's going to carve out a place in Wilder's team.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

This thread , fascinating though it is , needs moving . It has nothing to do with Sheffield United .

Since he's a United player it has everything to do with Sheffield United and unfortunately every Ched thread is going to bring all the rape case stuff up again and again, probably for quite a while to come. It's why some people didn't want him back.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Totally agree. I am only interested in what Ched can do as a footballer. Gossip mongers and self-righteous hypocrites really need to move on to forums that pander more to their needs.

Would that be the self-righteous hypocrites who refused to accept the first trial's verdict and went on and on about him being innocent, but who now demand that anyone who doesn't accept the second trial's verdict shut their faces and piss off? And would the gossip mongers be those that make stuff up about the girl?
I suggest you avoid Ched threads for a while, because people can't help bringing the subject up, though I suspect the thread title and OP was deliberately trying to stir things.

 

[Grappler]

After Tuesday nights game, CW (on Radio Sheff) told Jonathan Buchan that Chad was "a problem", but a good one, because he (CW) had not factored in Ched looking so good with so little game time after physio and fitness training. He said something like "he might make the bench on Saturday, we will make that call on Friday morning, this is the sort of problem I like".

(just to get this thread back to football)

 

[Th!stledo]

Would that be the self-righteous hypocrites who refused to accept the first trial's verdict and went on and on about him being innocent, but who now demand that anyone who doesn't accept the second trial's verdict shut their faces and piss off? And would the gossip mongers be those that make stuff up about the girl?
I suggest you avoid Ched threads for a while, because people can't help bringing the subject up, though I suspect the thread title and OP was deliberately trying to stir things.

It would be very easy to challenge your piss-poor comments and opinions but that would just fan the flames of the sanctimonious and the gossipers.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

It would be very easy to challenge your piss-poor comments and opinions but that would just fan the flames of the sanctimonious and the gossipers.

Well I'm profoundly grateful to you.

 

[Th!stledo]

Well I'm profoundly grateful to you.

Apology accepted.

 

[Grappler]

After Tuesday nights game, CW (on Radio Sheff) told Jonathan Buchan that Chad was "a problem", but a good one, because he (CW) had not factored in Ched looking so good with so little game time after physio and fitness training. He said something like "he might make the bench on Saturday, we will make that call on Friday morning, this is the sort of problem I like".

(just to get this thread back to football)

Ched is on the bench in place of Lavery, same starting XI as opening day.

 

[Gavlar]

Well going back to the original post, im a doubter, but am really pleased at how he did on weds. Cracking shot for the first goal and good assist. I hope he does v well for the rest of the season, but time will tell.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Specifically in Sheffsteel's mate's case and the way he describes it, I doubt he went his entire life without crossing that line, my guess would be regularly. In times past people were not as aware of rape and the law and the police/cps were not as keen to prosecute, these days men with that kind of lifestyle are risking a life-ruining incident. During and after both cases I tried to think how the law was wrong, but couldn't come up with any satisfactory way that the law could be changed.
I still think that what Evans did was rape, I think his second trial was wrong and the verdict possibly reflected that he'd already served his time, we'll never know, but I feel his punishment has been too harsh and it is no bad thing for him to have been aquitted and be able to pick up his life. The reaction from the feministas was appalling and detached from any perspective of the case. Unfortunately it will take a long time to die down, which is why I and many others didn't want him to continue his career with us, but he's here now so I hope he can settle in and do well. SUFC signing King was just an embarrassment, I don't think Evans's signing comes anywhere close to it, but he's still going to have to take a lot on the chin for the rest of his career. He appears to have made a pretty good start but he's going to have to do a lot better than last time in the Championship if he's going to carve out a place in Wilder's team.

I agree with the vast majority of your post there mate. I don’t think the law is the issue (except that the reasonable man test when addressing the belief in consent is a bit gray for criminal law- but not sure how that could be improved?). I think the issue is the culture of excessive drinking and casual sex going hand in hand. I wouldn’t feel comfortable deciding that what he did was rape but would say it’s too close to the line for comfort and any bloke should have learned now not to go anywhere near that line. As you say, regardless of which side of the line his actions fall on, time has been served and he now has every right to push on with his career. Let’s hope he can recapture his best form and be a real asset for us.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Would that be the self-righteous hypocrites who refused to accept the first trial's verdict and went on and on about him being innocent, but who now demand that anyone who doesn't accept the second trial's verdict shut their faces and piss off? And would the gossip mongers be those that make stuff up about the girl?
I suggest you avoid Ched threads for a while, because people can't help bringing the subject up, though I suspect the thread title and OP was deliberately trying to stir things.

Unfortunately, the “gossip mongers and self-righteous hypocrites” exist on both sides of the argument. People have entrenched positions that they won’t change despite the strength of contrary arguments ranging from “he did nowt wrong” to “he’s a dirty rapist and should never be allowed to play football” to “he ruined that poor girl’s life” to “she’s a dirty slag and he’s lost the best part of his career due to her actions” to “the police manufactured charges when there was no case to answer”. All of it utter bollocks with no real consideration for the many details that swing the issue away from their entrenched positon.

 

[Pedro's Winger]

Adebo,

Over 10 years ago I used to go out drinking/ night clubbing with a nice lad who didn't think he'd had a good night unless he ended the night having a 1 night stand. He wasn't that good looking and I asked him what the secret of his success was and he replied that he deliberately targetted "ugly drunk birds' (his words) and tells them what they want to hear and it worked 90% of the time. He told me he'd slept with over 200 women and told me stories where he'd woke up in bed with girls and they were really embarrassed not remembering clearly how they ended up there and asked him to leave. When i heard of the Ched situation it made me think back to my friend. I've also seen with my own eyes how drunken women can become sexual predators, as bad or worse than men, groping any man trying to force them to have sex with them. It's a very old fashioned view that women are the fairer sex, in the real world some are just as preditory as men.

That's the problem.
The kids programmes on MTV, Geordie Shore etc show open drunken debauchery and infer free sex as almost "normal behaviour".
They make it appear that having a threesome with strangers is just a bit of a giggle for the more open minded.
I've spoke to women who don't think what the girl or Ched did was shocking. One actually said to me "if you haven't had a threesome in an hotel room then you've had a shallow upbringing, hasn't everyone had threesomes with strangers"?

Mix our sexual society, different moral values from one extreme to another with excessive alcohol intake and these cases can become a bit of a mess. I'm uncomfortable with the events too but then I snap out of it and realise that the truth is that almost every player will have done something distasteful. I'm not being asked to be Cheds mate, he's just a footballers playing for this club.

Your mate had prior contact with the women and while he seems a bit sad and potentially did rape if he knew they weren't capable of consent that's still a lot different to what Evans did.
I take it we had fans singing about Evans and the woman concerned on Saturday and the same individuals may well have been involved in the trouble.
Great advert for the club.

 

[I should coco]

I take it we had fans singing about Evans and the woman concerned on Saturday and the same individuals may well have been involved in the trouble.
Great advert for the club.

So you have a guess and then slag the club off?

Some 'Blade' you are.

 

[BushBlade]

So you have a guess and then slag the club off?

Some 'Blade' you are.

Tbf, the singers and the fighters are both a bunch of pricks, whether they're the same people or not.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Tbf, the singers and the fighters are both a bunch of pricks, whether they're the same people or not.

So we've got

Singers
Fighters
Spitters
Pyro 's
Part timers
Coke heads
Fake Burberry Chavs
Pensioners who block aisles waving to someone they've gone to the match on the same bus with
People trying to smuggle dogs in
Season ticket holders who don't go
People who can't wait 45 minutes for a piss
Full kit wankers
Stone Island wankers
Thoresby wankers
Rucksack wankers


Virtually our entire fan base if you believe what you read on here

 

[BushBlade]

So we've got

Singers
Fighters
Spitters
Pyro 's
Part timers
Coke heads
Fake Burberry Chavs
Pensioners who block aisles waving to someone they've gone to the match on the same bus with
People trying to smuggle dogs in
Season ticket holders who don't go
People who can't wait 45 minutes for a piss
Full kit wankers
Stone Island wankers
Thoresby wankers
Rucksack wankers


Virtually our entire fan base if you believe what you read on here

You forgot about the leaving early wankers and the real ale knobheads.