Next Season Shirt Sponsor - Good Grief!

[JohnDenver]

Wouldn't be overly happy myself, particularly as I've had a go at my 'Pool mates who slagged off their club for going with Wonga but then all bought the shirts

Here's an easy promise for me to keep. I won't buy or wear anything United try to flog with a payday loan company logo on it.

They'll be hearing from me too, in full-on outraged of Tunbridge Wells stylee. And they'll get their own mention in the twats thread (which will show 'em alright).

Bah.

 

[alcoblade]

Well the Payday loan companies must think advertising will get them more customers. Otherwise why would they pay for it?

My guess would be to pinch market share from competitors.

And are they such a great evil anyway, once everyone jumps off the bandwaggon of being told how to think about them?

The APR comparisons are clearly complete bollocks, which takes about a microsecond to work out.

UTB

 

[Bladesway]

Exactly - well said and I completely agree (as a business man myself)!

As a parent I dont,. If you don't see the reasoning behind that then god fucking help all of us.

What next, the family stand sponsored by spearmint rhino? There really is no depth we won't stoop to.

 

[alcoblade]

As a parent I dont,. If you don't see the reasoning behind that then god fucking help all of us.

What next, the family stand sponsored by spearmint rhino? There really is no depth we won't stoop to.

Do you think your kids give a shit or are in any way influenced by what's on the shirt?

God help us all, because I don't see the reasoning.



UTB

 

[Deleted member 875]

I buy my vehicles from Gilders so that was a real tester ,theyve been sold now though. Sad as it is I actually wouldnt go to Asda or eat Chuppa chups or even go to Rumbelows. Just hope the pigs dont get sponsored by X Hamster.

Why, what do XHamster do?

 

[Bladesway]

Do you think your kids give a shit or are in any way influenced by what's on the shirt?

God help us all, because I don't see the reasoning.



UTB

Let's normalise getting into debt, with 1000% apr let's have kids walking around with it on their chest. Perhaps if they don't care we could be sponsored by crackpipe.com next.

Its at least one shirt they won't be selling next season and I recon I won't be alone.

 

[alcoblade]

Let's normalise getting into debt, with 1000% apr let's have kids walking around with it on their chest. Perhaps if they don't care we could be sponsored by crackpipe.com next.

Its at least one shirt they won't be selling next season and I recon I won't be alone.

If you can't see past the APR figures for short term lending then you've not given the whole concept enough thought fella.

UTB

 

[blade too long]

Are we culpable for the existence of Wonga

Lets face it Wonga log book loans, pound to pocket are all legalised loan sharks but are they any less moral than bet365, betfred, online casinos , poker sites , or any lager or drinks company culpable for drunkeness.
Its the idiots that abuse themselves by using them to excess.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

It's a tough one, the club are being paid for advertising so why not just take the cash but there's no doubt that the club's image and the company themselves should be taken into consideration.

When Jnr was a mascot 10 or so years ago, they were taken round the Hall Of Fame and John asked them to compare one of the old shirts to the current one, meaning the badge had completely changed for one. They both immediately said 'no name on the shirt' meaning lack of sponsor.

We can argue that it doesn't matter but I'd hazard a guess that if I threw 20 sponsors into the mix from last season, most would match them up with the correct team. So where do we morally draw the line and should we ? At the end of the day, if Netto offer us £100K for the season but Quick Quid or the like offer us double, I guess it's a no brainer as we probably can't pick or choose these days. They are a loan company, admittedly praying on the vulnerable and taking advantage (which the government are alledgedly looking into) but that's it, a loan company. As people have said, there was no outrage when HFS Loans were the sponsors.

As ever though, reputation means a lot and for me, being associated with, and advertising such a company is not something we should necessarily be getting involved with.

 

[Darren]

It's a tough one, the club are being paid for advertising so why not just take the cash but there's no doubt that the club's image and the company themselves should be taken into consideration.

When Jnr was a mascot 10 or so years ago, they were taken round the Hall Of Fame and John asked them to compare one of the old shirts to the current one, meaning the badge had completely changed for one. They both immediately said 'no name on the shirt' meaning lack of sponsor.

We can argue that it doesn't matter but I'd hazard a guess that if I threw 20 sponsors into the mix from last season, most would match them up with the correct team. So where do we morally draw the line and should we ? At the end of the day, if Netto offer us £100K for the season but Quick Quid or the like offer us double, I guess it's a no brainer as we probably can't pick or choose these days. They are a loan company, admittedly praying on the vulnerable and taking advantage (which the government are alledgedly looking into) but that's it, a loan company. As people have said, there was no outrage when HFS Loans were the sponsors.

As ever though, reputation means a lot and for me, being associated with, and advertising such a company is not something we should necessarily be getting involved with.

If you read Hunter Davies' book "The Glory Game" about Spurs in the 1971-72 season, he mentions that the Spurs programme did not feature any adverts as the directors took the view that that kind of grubby commercialism was not consonant with the ethos of the club.

Now, as you say, the clubs will flog anything or get in bed with anyone if there is some filthy lucre involved.

It really was a different world back then.

 

[Bladesway]

There are choices you can make as a football club. Family club? Would a family club suggest you go and get a pay day loan? Is that a positive message to send out when debt is crippling people on a daily basis? Sorry but i take this seriously and think that being a family club and being sponsored by legalised loan sharks is a real mixed message.

Further proof if any were needed that we have no soul.

 

[Deleted member 875]

It's a tough one, the club are being paid for advertising so why not just take the cash but there's no doubt that the club's image and the company themselves should be taken into consideration.

When Jnr was a mascot 10 or so years ago, they were taken round the Hall Of Fame and John asked them to compare one of the old shirts to the current one, meaning the badge had completely changed for one. They both immediately said 'no name on the shirt' meaning lack of sponsor.

We can argue that it doesn't matter but I'd hazard a guess that if I threw 20 sponsors into the mix from last season, most would match them up with the correct team. So where do we morally draw the line and should we ? At the end of the day, if Netto offer us £100K for the season but Quick Quid or the like offer us double, I guess it's a no brainer as we probably can't pick or choose these days. They are a loan company, admittedly praying on the vulnerable and taking advantage (which the government are alledgedly looking into) but that's it, a loan company. As people have said, there was no outrage when HFS Loans were the sponsors.

As ever though, reputation means a lot and for me, being associated with, and advertising such a company is not something we should necessarily be getting involved with.

Or Capitol One who took advantage of the lending boom in the mid 00's by giving virtually anyone who applied a credit card at less than attractive rates of APR

 

[Linz]

I think this is part of a wider discussion about a general lack of numeracy skills and financial knowledge in the population as a whole.

Whether we pop it on our shirts or not, and whether you like it or not, debt is normalised. Student loans, car finance, credit cards, store cards, overdrafts, mortgages... no one is giving you access to credit out of sheer altruism. Taking the time to read and understand means you can play the system and minimise your expense (by knowing what the APR figures mean or using Credit Unions) or even make money out of it (cashback credit cards fr'instance).

But too many people, to give them the benefit of the doubt, are too trusting of others to have their financial best interests at heart. Or on the other hand, too blasé to even care. These are the kind of people to be drawn in by adverts. The way I'd change it now is make financial education a part of the national curriculum as the offspring of the likes who use Brighthouse aren't going to be reached in any other way and the cycle will perpetuate.

You only have to look at places like this to see the problem: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=76

As for the club, I made the suggestion a while ago that a savings account product be set up with a local bank to encourage saving for a season ticket for the following year. It could be tied in with the Junior Blades scheme for the young 'uns, getting them to save their pocket money and with a reasonable rate of interest, be of use to us old 'uns who have to find £400 every March.

What do they do instead? Offer a monthly payment scheme which charges you an admin fee and interest.

 

[Bradford Blade]

I think this is part of a wider discussion about a general lack of numeracy skills and financial knowledge in the population as a whole...

Brilliant post Linz - given the doom 'n' gloom I'm used to on here (at the mo), this is a real breath of fresh air

Top stuff!

UTB!

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

I agree with your comment about the lack of numeracy skills coming out of our schools these days Linz but the problem with the payday loan people is that they give money to desperate people without any checks other than do you have a bank account and a regular pay day.

I know of some very clever people who have turned to these companies and it's not through lack of knowledge, they are the only option for credit for some people and the companies do little to stop people from being taken in.
I could sit here now and easily borrow £10000 by the time the kettle's boiled and that can't be right. OK, we're straying away from the point and although these companies don't force people to get into debt, they have a terrible reputation and our club thinks it's a good idea to promote them.

 

[Bladesway]

It prays on the weak amd less fortunate. A bit like McCabe then.

 

[Linz]

I agree with your comment about the lack of numeracy skills coming out of our schools these days Linz but the problem with the payday loan people is that they give money to desperate people without any checks other than do you have a bank account and a regular pay day.

I don't disagree with what you say, and I meant to say in my original post that I personally wouldn't buy a shirt with a payday loan company emblazoned across it because I think it's tacky. Nor could I ever envisage myself using such a company, as above all else, I believe prioritising the necessities and saving for the niceties.

But should society as a whole really be saving people from themselves? If this is the only line of credit open to someone, then they obviously have a track record of not being able to manage their finances, or credit available from more "reputable" sources, effectively.

These sorts of companies are vultures but without them, it would only make the kinds of people who use them face up to their existing problems sooner (which would be no bad thing, obviously). They are a symptom of the issue of debt, but often not the root cause in the first instance. Which brings us back to education.

If you start to default on your mortgage/credit card/council tax, taking out more debt to make up the shortfall is rarely the best plan.

 

[FleaPitBlade]

I’ve been in debt to the tune of about £12k, through a combination of credit cards, store cards and bank loans.

The majority of that I pissed up the wall during a misspent youth. Booze, holidays and fast cars and the rest of the things that a young man without much care in the world might spend his money on. Nothing to do with lack of education or numeracy skills in my case - I would just rather go down the pub with my mates than pay of the credit card

There came a point at which I thought to myself, ‘Oh shit, I’m in a mess here’ and I’ve since paid back every penny, bit by bit, over the course of the last 5 years.

There was a time though when red letters were landing daily and I got at least two threatening phone calls from debt collection agencies per day. So I’ve been in the position of vulnerability that payday loan companies seek to profit from and I can fully understand why people turn to them when they’re being hounded for money. Its a horrible place and some of the tactics used by people on the phone and in writing is vile and I appreciate why those not as strong of mind or poorly educated might crack under that sort of pressure.

The thing is though, there are alternatives. They just aren’t known about. There are no end of charities and helplines you can turn to that will give you sound advice, talk you through all of your options and your rights and assist you in setting up the most appropriate solution for you to stop the rot and get you back in the black. CCCS or StepChange, for example.

There are some shysters that advertise debt management solutions at a cost or percentage of payments rate when those same charities will give you the same service FOC. If you’re talking about the morality of preying on people with money trouble those type of companies are the biggest twats going. Masquerading as the white knights when in fact they're profiteering from your situation and offering very little by way of a service in return.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

I don't disagree with what you say, and I meant to say in my original post that I personally wouldn't buy a shirt with a payday loan company emblazoned across it because I think it's tacky. Nor could I ever envisage myself using such a company, as above all else, I believe prioritising the necessities and saving for the niceties.

But should society as a whole really be saving people from themselves? If this is the only line of credit open to someone, then they obviously have a track record of not being able to manage their finances, or credit available from more "reputable" sources, effectively.

These sorts of companies are vultures but without them, it would only make the kinds of people who use them face up to their existing problems sooner (which would be no bad thing, obviously). They are a symptom of the issue of debt, but often not the root cause in the first instance. Which brings us back to education.

If you start to default on your mortgage/credit card/council tax, taking out more debt to make up the shortfall is rarely the best plan.

True and as you say, people with a bad track record are there for a reason but it's a bit like barring alcoholics from all pubs but then opening up expensive off licences next door. They are not the root cause at the moment but in months / years time, they will have made the problem a damn site worse for millions of people.

Totally agree that schools need to get ahead of the game though, particularly when you look at the ridiculous things they do teach and give out qualifications for when most of them don't know their 'times tables'.

Anyway, BOYCOTT THE SHIRTS

 

[JJ Sefton]

I think we can all agree that you'd have to be fairly desperate to go to a company like Wonga but ask yourself this; would it be better for these people if Wonga or whoever wasn't there? If they couldn't borrow? How would they deal with whatever was the cause of their desperation in that instance?

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

I think we can all agree that you'd have to be fairly desperate to go to a company like Wonga but ask yourself this; would it be better for these people if Wonga or whoever wasn't there? If they couldn't borrow? How would they deal with whatever was the cause of their desperation in that instance?

Whatever people did before they were around

 

[Darren]

I think we can all agree that you'd have to be fairly desperate to go to a company like Wonga but ask yourself this; would it be better for these people if Wonga or whoever wasn't there? If they couldn't borrow? How would they deal with whatever was the cause of their desperation in that instance?

There are two types of people who might go to Wonga

1. Careless/feckless/stupid people (like the young Presty above, if he will forgive me saying so) who borrow money they can'y pay back to spend on non-essentials. For thos type of people, it would be better of Wonga didn't exist.

2. Truly desperate people who need money for essentials and who are in dire straits through no fault of their own. If, as a scoeity, we are forcing people like that to go to Wonga, there is something desperately wrong.

 

[JJ Sefton]

Whatever people did before they were around

Illegal loan sharks?

 

[Darren]

Illegal loan sharks?

On the council estate I grew up in on the 70's no-one got into debt beause

(a) As we didn't own any property worth speaking of, banks wouldn't lend us anything; and
(b) There were no other legal lending bodies.

I am sure there were loan sharks around, but there was also fullish employment and a functioning social security system, so very few people got involved with them and I distinctly remember at school being shown documenatries about pawnbrokers as being one of those nasty things from the past (like rickets and bubonic plague) that had pleasingly disappeared.

 

[FleaPitBlade]

There are two types of people who might go to Wonga

1. Careless/feckless/stupid people (like the young Presty above, if he will forgive me saying so)

Fair cop!

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

There's a gap in the market for 'legal' short term lenders and if, as is the case, they are up front with their exhorbitant APRs then people have a choice. The problem I have, which seems to be the one the government also has, is that these companies don't do enough to ensure the debt can be repaid. The trouble is, as stated above, people who only have these people as an option are in that position because of bad debts, chicken and egg.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

On the council estate I grew up in on the 70's no-one got into debt beause

(a) As we didn't own any property worth speaking of, banks wouldn't lend us anything; and
(b) There were no other legal lending bodies.

I am sure there were loan sharks around, but there was also fullish employment and a functioning social security system, so very few people got involved with them and I distinctly remember at school being shown documenatries about pawnbrokers as being one of those nasty things from the past (like rickets and bubonic plague) that had pleasingly disappeared.

True, and we're back to the 'want it now' society we unfortunately live in today which kind of goes back to Linz' comments.

 

[JJ Sefton]

There's a gap in the market for 'legal' short term lenders and if, as is the case, they are up front with their exhorbitant APRs then people have a choice. The problem I have, which seems to be the one the government also has, is that these companies don't do enough to ensure the debt can be repaid. The trouble is, as stated above, people who only have these people as an option are in that position because of bad debts, chicken and egg.

There's only so much they can do, at the end of the day the person best placed to judge whether they can repay or not is the borrower. It's the problem of asymmetric information. It's also worth noting that people default at substantially lower rates of interest as well, the Pigs for example.

 

[Linz]

I've just re-read my posts and want to point out that I obviously don't want to sound unsympathetic in any way. Being massively in unmanageable debt must be an awful position to be in which is why, to the best of my ability and with hardly excessive resources, we try and build up a safeguard against the lean times... savings and maxing out a generous company pension scheme for instance. I know my circumstances are better than many (and worse than many more, I'm sure) but I was always taught to watch the pennies.

If you're struggling to put food on the table, the ability to get £50 here and now must be tempting but the likes of people who use Brighthouse aren't desperate for food, rather a 50 inch plasma TV and a good slap for being so bloody stupid.

I agree that credit is too easy to obtain, not just from payday lenders. It was frightening when getting our mortgage, even after the supposed reigning in by the banks, exactly how much in excess of our combined income one High Street bank was prepared to lend... up to four times more than we needed to buy our terraced house was apparently "not a problem". But it was our choice not to take them up on it because we knew we would be crippling ourselves.

And choice is an important freedom to have. Should we outlaw Greggs to save the chubsters from themselves?

Anywho, I digress so to get back on topic...

It would be nice for United to work with the Sheffield Credit Union for instance to publicise their concept of saving in the "good" times to give you access to cheaper loans in the bad times.

But obviously the Credit Union is not going to have the money to spend on shirt advertising and in today's football world, it's the readies that speak louder than anything.

 

[Linz]

Totally agree that schools need to get ahead of the game though, particularly when you look at the ridiculous things they do teach and give out qualifications for when most of them don't know their 'times tables'.

That's a bit advanced. I've had students come to me in the cash office who can't add five figures together on a calculator correctly. Embarrassingly, they're usually in the Maths society. It never fails to amuse.

Ask them to work out a percentage on a calculator without a % button and they're stumped.