Newcastle and Berge

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Millhousesblade1889 said:
The bubble will burst again at M’boro, the problem this time is he doesn’t have his own fans behind him when it goes wrong.
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I don’t think 2 promotions and a 9th place finish then a relegation is the bubble bursting and I’m pretty sure boro fans would snap your hand off for that 😂
 
FallowfieldBlade said:
I don’t think 2 promotions and a 9th place finish then a relegation is the bubble bursting and I’m pretty sure boro fans would snap your hand off for that 😂
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I would say it’s the exact example of the saying.

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Agreed tho, I’m sure they would

I think that as fans we would accept we may get relegated, even after finishing 9th

It’s the manner of CW’s demise that hurt

Had he conducted himself like Howe at Bournemouth the same season, stayed the season, looked pained at relegation, shook every players hand at the final whistle of the last day of the season on the pitch then resigned with dignity is one way

Slating your employer who pays you fantastically, quitting multiple times then sloping out the back door with £4m is another

Made even worse when he’s a ‘lifelong fan’
 
steve26272 said:
I would say it’s the exact example of the saying.

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Agreed tho, I’m sure they would

I think that as fans we would accept we may get relegated, even after finishing 9th

It’s the manner of CW’s demise that hurt

Had he conducted himself like Howe at Bournemouth the same season, stayed the season, looked pained at relegation, shook every players hand at the final whistle of the last day of the season on the pitch then resigned with dignity is one way

Slating your employer who pays you fantastically, quitting multiple times then sloping out the back door with £4m is another

Made even worse when he’s a ‘lifelong fan’
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Depends on how your employer treats you too.
I can't say I know loads about the ins and outs but I do know Wilder and the board/prince relationship really started to deteriorate after he signed that deal.

All this talk of going out the back door is kinda stupid too. His exit was mutual not just plain resignation. How do you leave out the front door so to speak?

Their relationship got to the point that neither side agreed with the way to move forward last summer and this season.

As much as I have to admit that I would never want to leave if I was a player or manager, if you aren't getting on with your employer the writing is on the wall really.

I do think one day we will find out a bit more about all of this and I think it will probably highlight reasons why wilder left. And also show that on some reasons he was too stubborn too.
 
CPB said:
Depends on how your employer treats you too.
I can't say I know loads about the ins and outs but I do know Wilder and the board/prince relationship really started to deteriorate after he signed that deal.

All this talk of going out the back door is kinda stupid too. His exit was mutual not just plain resignation. How do you leave out the front door so to speak?

Their relationship got to the point that neither side agreed with the way to move forward last summer and this season.

As much as I have to admit that I would never want to leave if I was a player or manager, if you aren't getting on with your employer the writing is on the wall really.

I do think one day we will find out a bit more about all of this and I think it will probably highlight reasons why wilder left. And also show that on some reasons he was too stubborn too.
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Agree on a lot of that mate tbf

I don’t agree with everything my employer does, but I value my job and respect that the owner has the right to make his decisions

In answer to how you leave through the front door - CW should have supported the lads, most of whom he signed, to the end (relegation), then resigned waiving his right to a payoff (millionaire through his wages already) stating his time had ran its course and it was time for fresh ideas, as did Wenger, Fergie, Howe etc

Agitating for the sack or mutual agreement to receive a payoff is something I expect of a foreign manager at Watford or something, not a ballboy, player, fan at his hometown club
 
steve26272 said:
Agree on a lot of that mate tbf

I don’t agree with everything my employer does, but I value my job and respect that the owner has the right to make his decisions

In answer to how you leave through the front door - CW should have supported the lads, most of whom he signed, to the end (relegation), then resigned waiving his right to a payoff (millionaire through his wages already) stating his time had ran its course and it was time for fresh ideas, as did Wenger, Fergie, Howe etc

Agitating for the sack or mutual agreement to receive a payoff is something I expect of a foreign manager at Watford or something, not a ballboy, player, fan at his hometown club
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I get that you don't have to agree with your employer does and you have to carry on.
But equally if you think it's just not going to work you do likely leave.
It would have been better to do what your saying too but the thing is too we don't really know how it all went down.

Plus it would give the club several months of preparation for the new season. Something I felt we wasted looking at it now.

If it was mutual agreement then a severance package is expected too.

The prince said in that interview after about how he had tried to resign before and had asked for a payoff. I found that odd at the time that an owner would do this. We can talk about him being honest but I don't think we got anything close to the full picture.
I genuinely think that interview was purely to take the heat off him at the time and I'm sure he chose what he wanted to say carefully because of that.

Theres deffo more too it. Just like there is more to this new plan now under Heckingbottom. Is this purely money driven for instance or do we actually have a proper grand plan too? Probably in the middle somewhere.
 
alcoblade said:
Are you being serious? Do you actually believe anyone still expects to make a profit on this deal?
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Absolutely not. But how much of a loss do we accept making when we initially brought him in to make a profit on him (the point I made), he was touted to be the next best thing so we spent big on him and we’re literally going to do the opposite
 
FallowfieldBlade said:
I don’t think 2 promotions and a 9th place finish then a relegation is the bubble bursting and I’m pretty sure boro fans would snap your hand off for that 😂
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100% I meant when he stops getting his own way and starts to blame everyone else again. That was the start of the demise
 
CPB said:
I get that you don't have to agree with your employer does and you have to carry on.
But equally if you think it's just not going to work you do likely leave.
It would have been better to do what your saying too but the thing is too we don't really know how it all went down.

Plus it would give the club several months of preparation for the new season. Something I felt we wasted looking at it now.

If it was mutual agreement then a severance package is expected too.

The prince said in that interview after about how he had tried to resign before and had asked for a payoff. I found that odd at the time that an owner would do this. We can talk about him being honest but I don't think we got anything close to the full picture.
I genuinely think that interview was purely to take the heat off him at the time and I'm sure he chose what he wanted to say carefully because of that.

Theres deffo more too it. Just like there is more to this new plan now under Heckingbottom. Is this purely money driven for instance or do we actually have a proper grand plan too? Probably in the middle somewhere.
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I think you’re point about wasting the post wilder months in the PL is so critical and gets overlooked.

Just imagine for arguments sake we’d appointed PH full time straight away? Suddenly those last few months would have been relevant to this season. Especially so given what’s transpired this so far.

Wilder is the scapegoat but it’s the period between him leaving and Slav going that’s screwed us over and we’ve forfeit all the benefits of being a relegated club.

We’ll never get that time back of course so what was in retrospect a great opportunity - wasted.

I know this is all hindsight but has more bearing than the front/back door wilder debate which is purely emotional.
 
N20 Blade said:
I think you’re point about wasting the post wilder months in the PL is so critical and gets overlooked.

Just imagine for arguments sake we’d appointed PH full time straight away? Suddenly those last few months would have been relevant to this season. Especially so given what’s transpired this so far.

Wilder is the scapegoat but it’s the period between him leaving and Slav going that’s screwed us over and we’ve forfeit all the benefits of being a relegated club.

We’ll never get that time back of course so what was in retrospect a great opportunity - wasted.

I know this is all hindsight but has more bearing than the front/back door wilder debate which is purely emotional.
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Apologies your point, predictive text error.
 
Millhousesblade1889 said:
Absolutely not. But how much of a loss do we accept making when we initially brought him in to make a profit on him (the point I made), he was touted to be the next best thing so we spent big on him and we’re literally going to do the opposite
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You have to go with the market rate. If we fool ourselves that he’s worth more than he is, nobody pays it. Then he walks for free at the end of his contract, and we lose the lot. That’s how Chansiri got the pigs into such a mess.

His market rate must have fallen significantly (unless we really got a bargain) , surely every sensible person accepts that?
 
If you were looking at player profile of Berge he is still young enough to make an impact if fit. He is an international (people say only Norway but he can't help where he was born) however he isn't proven over the high end top flight games like Trippier they have just signed for £12million they could in theory buy Berge and loan him back if they have money to chuck around with a view of bedding him in later after fitness is proven although when a rich owner on the scene comes in they are bound to be linked with top names like Martial etc I think the asking price and risk will be too much especially given their league position. Southampton have a new owner not sure of the cash situation there but he could easily fit into their model of play
 

CPB said:
I can't say I know loads about the ins and outs but I do know Wilder and the board/prince relationship really started to deteriorate after he signed that deal.
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Im pretty sure The Prince and Wilders relationship didnt suddenly deteriorate after the signing of the new contract there must have some sort of problem on Wilders part before he got the new contract
You then wonder why Wilder signed the new contract if he was not totally happy with the direction of the club
Did Wilder move the goalposts and make demands after he signed the new and improved contract ?
We may find out in time but Wilder walked it was not by mutual consent
 
alcoblade said:
You have to go with the market rate. If we fool ourselves that he’s worth more than he is, nobody pays it. Then he walks for free at the end of his contract, and we lose the lot. That’s how Chansiri got the pigs into such a mess.

His market rate must have fallen significantly (unless we really got a bargain) , surely every sensible person accepts that?
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I'm not sure why you keep using phrases like 'are you being serious' & 'sensible person'. Nobody is disagreeing with you, I am simply making the point that the board will not want to sell him on the cheap as he was bought with profit in mind. We've got him until June 2024 so there's plenty of time in that contract for him to realise his potential with us and sell for a better price than we can today after two serious hamstring injuries.

January isn't a good time to sell players for big money so I would expect us to keep him until the summer and sell him then or we could loan him out today and hope he impresses enough for that club that we re-coup the majority of the costs. Look at players we've let go on the cheap that have gone elsewhere and thrived with us making pennies on them in comparison to today's value
 
Millhousesblade1889 said:
I'm not sure why you keep using phrases like 'are you being serious' & 'sensible person'. Nobody is disagreeing with you, I am simply making the point that the board will not want to sell him on the cheap as he was bought with profit in mind. We've got him until June 2024 so there's plenty of time in that contract for him to realise his potential with us and sell for a better price than we can today after two serious hamstring injuries.

January isn't a good time to sell players for big money so I would expect us to keep him until the summer and sell him then or we could loan him out today and hope he impresses enough for that club that we re-coup the majority of the costs. Look at players we've let go on the cheap that have gone elsewhere and thrived with us making pennies on them in comparison to today's value
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Okay, apologies if my tone came across a bit aggressive. But there are plenty of people who seem to still suggest Berge will go for big money, and that we should hold out etc. And whatever the boards opinion is on making a profit, the biggest factor is always what someone is prepared to pay.

As I said, Chansiri’s policy was always to hold out for a profit. They are now in division three with huge debts, having lost a fortune on just about everyone they’ve signed.
 
FallowfieldBlade said:
I don’t think 2 promotions and a 9th place finish then a relegation is the bubble bursting and I’m pretty sure boro fans would snap your hand off for that 😂
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Wasn't just a relegation though was it -it was fucking worse than that dire turgid football for 15 months leaving us with an expensive ( for us) squad with no value
 
ATL Recs said:
Wasn't just a relegation though was it -it was fucking worse than that dire turgid football for 15 months leaving us with an expensive ( for us) squad with no value
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And we won't get any off the wage bill this month as all our expensive flops are exactly that......worthless FLOPS
 
From a spread sheet point of view we’ll sell players at a loss but if they’re paid for then it in theory it releases money providing that we have paid for them in total
 
alcoblade said:
You have to go with the market rate. If we fool ourselves that he’s worth more than he is, nobody pays it. Then he walks for free at the end of his contract, and we lose the lot. That’s how Chansiri got the pigs into such a mess.

His market rate must have fallen significantly (unless we really got a bargain) , surely every sensible person accepts that?
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I've said this all along ,berge is worth approximately 35%to 40% of what we paid ...
10 million now at best any one who thinks differently is kidding themselves...
Newcastle won't go nowhere near berge !
He's pretty much been a disastrous signing if truth be told
 
Pedro Verde said:
Im pretty sure The Prince and Wilders relationship didnt suddenly deteriorate after the signing of the new contract there must have some sort of problem on Wilders part before he got the new contract
You then wonder why Wilder signed the new contract if he was not totally happy with the direction of the club
Did Wilder move the goalposts and make demands after he signed the new and improved contract ?
We may find out in time but Wilder walked it was not by mutual consent
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It didn't suddenly deteriorate. That's not what I meant.

But up till that point I think both sides were open and happy working together.

It's our events after covid that split them apart.

It was mutual in the end. Wilder wanted out more for sure but the Prince also
kinda wanted him out too because he was a big voice in contridiction to him..
 
alcoblade said:
Okay, apologies if my tone came across a bit aggressive. But there are plenty of people who seem to still suggest Berge will go for big money, and that we should hold out etc. And whatever the boards opinion is on making a profit, the biggest factor is always what someone is prepared to pay.

As I said, Chansiri’s policy was always to hold out for a profit. They are now in division three with huge debts, having lost a fortune on just about everyone they’ve signed.
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Chansiri's policy was to not sell at any price. Only players who have forced a move (Joao and Hunt) have left for fees. There's also a difference between signing players at the peak of their careers and holding onto them with the dream of making the Premier League and signing someone who's got the potential to improve and hoping to cash in on that.

FWIW I think the gap between the board's valuation of Berge and the market valuation of him will keep him at the Lane until at least the summer at which stage we'll either have somehow got promoted and will be able to keep him or we'll be in the Championship next season with another gap to fill on the income statement.
 
If berge goes were fucked end of... We may as well liquidate the club

Who could we get to replace him!!! Players that come on as a sub and jog about a bit in midfield and pass the ball backwards to the centre backs are impossible to find these days
 
Balham Blade said:
Chansiri's policy was to not sell at any price. Only players who have forced a move (Joao and Hunt) have left for fees. There's also a difference between signing players at the peak of their careers and holding onto them with the dream of making the Premier League and signing someone who's got the potential to improve and hoping to cash in on that.

FWIW I think the gap between the board's valuation of Berge and the market valuation of him will keep him at the Lane until at least the summer at which stage we'll either have somehow got promoted and will be able to keep him or we'll be in the Championship next season with another gap to fill on the income statement.
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Yes, agreed it’s slightly different with Chansiri. But those who want to set a valuation of £35m, or at least hold out for a profit, are effectively saying we shouldn’t sell at any price because nobody is going near that.
 
He's coming back from injury but it feels like we're forever on 'someday aisle' with SB plus he is second best to Iliman N'Diaye.

Hope we can cash in soon and improve the squad instead.
 

Deadly_D'Jaffo said:
He's coming back from injury but it feels like we're forever on 'someday aisle' with SB plus he is second best to Iliman N'Diaye.

Hope we can cash in soon and improve the squad instead.
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Very one paced player (slow) who plays conservative football. I think we'll be lucky to get any decent offers for him.
 
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