New Formation Required

[snootyfenooty]

OK I'll throw in my five pen'orth and put the mockers on. That 3-5-2 line up is a disaster waiting to happen. Time after time you can see gaps a mile wide on the flanks and the only reason we haven't been nobbled more often this season is that the opposition has been so fuckin' crap. Any forward with a bit of pace will run rings round that back three. Walsall figured it out months ago, I think the penny might drop now though with the rest of the league from now on and this is where we could hit the buffers.

The wing backs are both suspect defensively and now that Wilder has signed Lafferty permanently, this is a bit of a worry. I'm hoping he's not going to play stubborn bugger and stick with the system just to try and prove his point.

For me the answer is a simple tweak to the system and play 4-5-1 or 4-4-2 with Freeman absolved of full back duties and played wide mid and Lafferty on the bench. However, for the reason given above I can't see this transpiring.

I would give this a go and see what happens:

Moore
Bash-EEL-Wright-O'Connell
Freeman-Fleck-Coutts-Duffy-Lavery
Sharp

 

[andy m]

OK I'll throw in my five pen'orth and put the mockers on. That 3-5-2 line up is a disaster waiting to happen. Time after time you can see gaps a mile wide on the flanks and the only reason we haven't been nobbled more often this season is that the opposition has been so fuckin' crap. Any forward with a bit of pace will run rings round that back three. Walsall figured it out months ago, I think the penny might drop now though with the rest of the league from now on and this is where we could hit the buffers.

The wing backs are both suspect defensively and now that Wilder has signed Lafferty permanently, this is a bit of a worry. I'm hoping he's not going to play stubborn bugger and stick with the system just to try and prove his point.

For me the answer is a simple tweak to the system and play 4-5-1 or 4-4-2 with Freeman absolved of full back duties and played wide mid and Lafferty on the bench. However, for the reason given above I can't see this transpiring.

I would give this a go and see what happens:

Moore
Bash-EEL-Wright-O'Connell
Freeman-Fleck-Coutts-Duffy-Lavery
Sharp

So the formation that has got us to the top of the league is a disaster because we lost one game? Talk about an overreaction. Are you hormonal at the minute?

 

[Pierre's PC]

I would give this a go and see what happens:

Tried it on Football Manager, it was wank.

 

[snootyfenooty]

So the formation that has got us to the top of the league is a disaster because we lost one game? Talk about an overreaction. Are you hormonal at the minute?

No mate, at my age I stopped worrying about hormones years ago. However, the tone of your reply suggests you may be approaching puberty or something so I'll let you off.

Anyway, with the insults out of the way, all I'm saying is that we beef the defence up. For a club in our league position we are shipping in far too many goals and a small tweak to the system is all that may be required.

 

[blade67]

Wilder swaps formations all the time anyway, including yesterday

He's got players who can do it and the base formation of 3-5-2 allows him to include the players he wants to

 

[andy m]

No mate, at my age I stopped worrying about hormones years ago. However, the tone of your reply suggests you may be approaching puberty or something so I'll let you off.

Anyway, with the insults out of the way, all I'm saying is that we beef the defence up. For a club in our league position we are shipping in far too many goals and a small tweak to the system is all that may be required.

Sorry pal, the hormonal comment was a bit unnecessary, but it is important not to overreact because of one result. I think a combination of over committing and getting too many players ahead of the ball, combined with some poor individual defensive displays let to the result, not the system.

 

[BladeInIreland]

OK I'll throw in my five pen'orth and put the mockers on. That 3-5-2 line up is a disaster waiting to happen. Time after time you can see gaps a mile wide on the flanks and the only reason we haven't been nobbled more often this season is that the opposition has been so fuckin' crap. Any forward with a bit of pace will run rings round that back three. Walsall figured it out months ago, I think the penny might drop now though with the rest of the league from now on and this is where we could hit the buffers.

The wing backs are both suspect defensively and now that Wilder has signed Lafferty permanently, this is a bit of a worry. I'm hoping he's not going to play stubborn bugger and stick with the system just to try and prove his point.

For me the answer is a simple tweak to the system and play 4-5-1 or 4-4-2 with Freeman absolved of full back duties and played wide mid and Lafferty on the bench. However, for the reason given above I can't see this transpiring.

I would give this a go and see what happens:

Moore
Bash-EEL-Wright-O'Connell
Freeman-Fleck-Coutts-Duffy-Lavery
Sharp

Taking the post seriously, I see what your saying but as said above the formation has been effective so far. Maybe a switch against teams who will attack us but in general, especially at home people park the bus. And as we know, in our time in this division breaking them down has been a huge problem and the current formation basically let's us throw the kitchen sink at them. maybe wrong but I think a change would see us draw alot of games we need to win. If every now and again it means we get spanked so be it because in general it wins us games.

 

[Ricky]

3-5-2 has taken us to the top of the league and has worked brilliantly away, just look how many goals we've scored. Yesterday was the first away game we've lost using that formation - and we were without Lafferty and the goalkeeper had a stinker, the latter being the sole reason behind the emphatic scoreline. Abandoning it at this stage would be hideous.

At home, possibly we could change things to include an extra midfielder while sticking with two strikers. We have that much of the ball that the full backs in a back 4 could get forward very often anyway. And the full backs would still be Freeman and Lafferty so it's not like we'd be taking any attacking quality out of the team to move to a back 4.

 

[unitedbhoy]

OK I'll throw in my five pen'orth and put the mockers on. That 3-5-2 line up is a disaster waiting to happen. Time after time you can see gaps a mile wide on the flanks and the only reason we haven't been nobbled more often this season is that the opposition has been so fuckin' crap. Any forward with a bit of pace will run rings round that back three. Walsall figured it out months ago, I think the penny might drop now though with the rest of the league from now on and this is where we could hit the buffers.

The wing backs are both suspect defensively and now that Wilder has signed Lafferty permanently, this is a bit of a worry. I'm hoping he's not going to play stubborn bugger and stick with the system just to try and prove his point.

For me the answer is a simple tweak to the system and play 4-5-1 or 4-4-2 with Freeman absolved of full back duties and played wide mid and Lafferty on the bench. However, for the reason given above I can't see this transpiring.

I would give this a go and see what happens:

Moore
Bash-EEL-Wright-O'Connell
Freeman-Fleck-Coutts-Duffy-Lavery
Sharp

Don't see the need to change tactics after every loss. There were no complaints about tactics/formations last week when we destroyed an in form Southend on the their own patch. We've bounced back from defeats before and we'll bounce back again. Relax, and let Wilder carry on his great work.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Sorry pal, the hormonal comment was a bit unnecessary, but it is important not to overreact because of one result. I think a combination of over committing and getting too many players ahead of the ball, combined with some poor individual defensive displays let to the result, not the system.

No worries mate.

 

[Stretch]

We shouldn't chuck the baby out with the bathwater based on 1 bad half of football but we should also remember that we do change formation quite often into 4-4-2. Wider said that he sent out instructions for this to happen yesterday at 2-1 but the players didn't respond. He sounded well pissed off.

For what it's worth I think we have the personnel for a very effective 4-2-3-1.
A back four of Freeman, EEL, O'Connell and Lafferty would be tighter as Lafferty is better at defence than attack.
Basham and Coutts as the sitting CMs with a 3 of Duffy, Fleck and Scougal/ Carruthers . Sharp up front of course.
I don't see many teams coping with that.

Other than that a 4-3-3 with Lavery out wide and another winger.

 

[Sheffsteel]

No mate, at my age I stopped worrying about hormones years ago. However, the tone of your reply suggests you may be approaching puberty or something so I'll let you off.

Anyway, with the insults out of the way, all I'm saying is that we beef the defence up. For a club in our league position we are shipping in far too many goals and a small tweak to the system is all that may be required.

Single one-off results or performances mean nothing.
This formation has worked wonders for months. If it ain't broke then don't fix it.

So I'd fully expect Wilder to keep this formation because it's been so successful
But im sure I read that Wilders preference is actually 4-4-2.
He only tried the 3 centre backs with attacking full backs as an experiment after the Millwall game.

I agree that our current formation does have negatives when playing stronger, quicker oppostion.
My understanding is that Wilder is likely to go back to 4-4-2 next season.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Think that leaving to the tosser who has us top of the league might well be a plan.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Another point to consider

The current formation is more postive and offers better attack options
BUT it leaves us open to be counter attacked by better teams.

It means we're set up to WIN but will get the occasional LOSS.

Where as Clough and Adkins had us set up really cautious so easier to keep things tight
Then hopefully knick a 1-0 or a 2-1. The problem with those managers is when we did go a goal up we'd then start defending and defending really deep in the final minutes.

Draws are no good, so I'd much rather us be postive going for the WIN but being vulnerable.
Attack is the best form of defence.

 

[robbiez666]

I think with 3-5-2 it has been a bit of make do and mend to get players into those positions. They've clearly responded brilliantly on the whole but we could possibly do with bringing in more players who fit the formation naturally.

The big thing we lack is what you'd expect when playing wing-backs. A deep lying midfielder with the legs to cover both wing-back positions when they go forward. Basham can play this role but we need someone like him with pace in the back 3. Personally, I think Whiteman could have played that role, but it was impossible to tell without trying him there. Wilder also has Fleck, Duffy and Coutts playing well, so difficult to drop one of them.

We've been more open than results would show with the formation so far. A combination of being too strong in attack, poor opponents and very good form across the team has stopped it previously being an issue. We do tend to leave gaps though.

What we basically need is Dean Hammond circa 2011.

 

[Caseh]

A bit of a drastic change, when all it needed was for Jake Wright to start.

 

[PeteBlade]

OK I'll throw in my five pen'orth and put the mockers on. That 3-5-2 line up is a disaster waiting to happen. Time after time you can see gaps a mile wide on the flanks and the only reason we haven't been nobbled more often this season is that the opposition has been so fuckin' crap. Any forward with a bit of pace will run rings round that back three. Walsall figured it out months ago, I think the penny might drop now though with the rest of the league from now on and this is where we could hit the buffers.

The wing backs are both suspect defensively and now that Wilder has signed Lafferty permanently, this is a bit of a worry. I'm hoping he's not going to play stubborn bugger and stick with the system just to try and prove his point.

For me the answer is a simple tweak to the system and play 4-5-1 or 4-4-2 with Freeman absolved of full back duties and played wide mid and Lafferty on the bench. However, for the reason given above I can't see this transpiring.

I would give this a go and see what happens:

Moore
Bash-EEL-Wright-O'Connell
Freeman-Fleck-Coutts-Duffy-Lavery
Sharp

We've lost one pissing game in 20 odd!!!!

 

[snootyfenooty]

If it ain't broke then don't fix it.

Worst cliche in the book. If you don't change you get complacent and stagnate. Embrace change and you stay ahead of the pack.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

OK I'll throw in my five pen'orth and put the mockers on. That 3-5-2 line up is a disaster waiting to happen. Time after time you can see gaps a mile wide on the flanks and the only reason we haven't been nobbled more often this season is that the opposition has been so fuckin' crap. Any forward with a bit of pace will run rings round that back three. Walsall figured it out months ago, I think the penny might drop now though with the rest of the league from now on and this is where we could hit the buffers.

The wing backs are both suspect defensively and now that Wilder has signed Lafferty permanently, this is a bit of a worry. I'm hoping he's not going to play stubborn bugger and stick with the system just to try and prove his point.

For me the answer is a simple tweak to the system and play 4-5-1 or 4-4-2 with Freeman absolved of full back duties and played wide mid and Lafferty on the bench. However, for the reason given above I can't see this transpiring.

I would give this a go and see what happens:

Moore
Bash-EEL-Wright-O'Connell
Freeman-Fleck-Coutts-Duffy-Lavery
Sharp

So your response is to play a CM at RB and a CB at LB - both of whom are amongst our slowest players????

Only hope you're better at your day job than you are a manager...

 

[Kenilworth]

Trick is not to take owt too seriously on here.

"Hormonal"

It was funny

 

[The Vicar]

We need Walker & Rose from Spurs as WB's!

 

[snootyfenooty]

So your response is to play a CM at RB and a CB at LB - both of whom are amongst our slowest players????

Only hope you're better at your day job than you are a manager...

Well yeah, I think Bash can play FB quite competently actually and whilst O'Connell is not a FB I think he 's a better defender than either of the two wing backs we have at the moment.

FYI, although I'm retired now I was quite successful in my day job.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Trick is not to take owt too seriously on here.

"Hormonal"

It was funny

You're a bit late, we've already kissed and made up.

 

[SteveBlade]

In my opinion in order to maximise the potential of our system there needs to be a negligible amount of stress put upon the theoretical effectiveness of the formation.

Words.

 

[Living In a Fantasy World]

Has long as Lafferty and Freeman are fit we should be sticking with the 3-5-2 formation, it's flexable which is the main reason why we have been sucesful with it. Playing Done there is foolish from Wilder, it didn't work for Adkins so why Wilder thought it would work for him is questionable.
Imo drop Basham, put Wright in. (Basham is imo a rotation player, good player to put in if injuries occur or players need a break, but should not be a first team player)
We signed Carruthers for a reason, so possibly Wilder see's him as a first team player over, Coutts or Fleck who to be fair can be inconsistent. So again he may be the consistent player we need int he middle 5.
I won't be happy with Lavery on the wing, he's a striker not a winger, if you think we need a winger then we should be signing one.
We should also be looking for a replacement for EEL, with him commiting to Wolves, I think it would be sensible to prepare a replacement and avoid another Maguire situation where we just stick Basham back there and hope it works.

 

[Kenilworth]

You're a bit late, we've already kissed and made up.

I know. Good to see
But in my timeline I still thought it funny as I didn't take it too seriously.

 

[Rodley]

OK I'll throw in my five pen'orth and put the mockers on. That 3-5-2 line up is a disaster waiting to happen. Time after time you can see gaps a mile wide on the flanks and the only reason we haven't been nobbled more often this season is that the opposition has been so fuckin' crap. Any forward with a bit of pace will run rings round that back three. Walsall figured it out months ago, I think the penny might drop now though with the rest of the league from now on and this is where we could hit the buffers.

The wing backs are both suspect defensively and now that Wilder has signed Lafferty permanently, this is a bit of a worry. I'm hoping he's not going to play stubborn bugger and stick with the system just to try and prove his point.

For me the answer is a simple tweak to the system and play 4-5-1 or 4-4-2 with Freeman absolved of full back duties and played wide mid and Lafferty on the bench. However, for the reason given above I can't see this transpiring.

I would give this a go and see what happens:

Moore
Bash-EEL-Wright-O'Connell
Freeman-Fleck-Coutts-Duffy-Lavery
Sharp

Top of the league and we're playing the wrong formation...the only reason we're top is because every one else is so crap...

 

[alcoblade]

OK I'll throw in my five pen'orth and put the mockers on. That 3-5-2 line up is a disaster waiting to happen. Time after time you can see gaps a mile wide on the flanks and the only reason we haven't been nobbled more often this season is that the opposition has been so fuckin' crap. Any forward with a bit of pace will run rings round that back three. Walsall figured it out months ago, I think the penny might drop now though with the rest of the league from now on and this is where we could hit the buffers.

The wing backs are both suspect defensively and now that Wilder has signed Lafferty permanently, this is a bit of a worry. I'm hoping he's not going to play stubborn bugger and stick with the system just to try and prove his point.

For me the answer is a simple tweak to the system and play 4-5-1 or 4-4-2 with Freeman absolved of full back duties and played wide mid and Lafferty on the bench. However, for the reason given above I can't see this transpiring.

I would give this a go and see what happens:

Moore
Bash-EEL-Wright-O'Connell
Freeman-Fleck-Coutts-Duffy-Lavery
Sharp

Is this a piss take?

I was stood next to some imbecile yesterday who was getting deeply red faced at our inability to get the ball into the box. "There's only us in the league that plays it like this!" he kept shouting.

Gobsmacked doesn't cover it. The league table does though.

 

[tyke1889]

In my opinion in order to maximise the potential of our system there needs to be a negligible amount of stress put upon the theoretical effectiveness of the formation.

Words.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Is this s piss take?

No. There was a bit of playing the devils advocate in my OP but I'm also of the opinion that we can improve with a couple of minor changes. I don't see anything radical in that nor do I see it justification for some of the outbursts of vitriol that have been expressed.