This formation

[NordicHarry]

I want to hear other people's opinions on this but for me this 4222/442 formation doesn't seem to suit the players we've got.

And I know I'm saying this after yesterdays defeat after a decent run (against shit), but I've been saying it for a while.

The right hand side can be ok when Brooks has woken up from his 3 week nap but other than that we have the slowest "wingers" on the planet, O'Hare shouldn't be near the touchline and does way more damage centrally with his through balls etc. Hamer just looks a fat idiot at this rate and the middle 2 are solid in Peck and Reidewald but depth/creativity isn't there especially when there's a gap between them and the 2 strikers which don't really drop into space like a Didzy or Ndiaye.

Personally a 4312 would work for us with Riedewald Peck and Hamer with O'Hare in front, cause I do think we have to play with 2 up top.

Just don't think this formation for me is going to work overall, unless in January there's an influx of wingers.

Also McGuinness is dog shit

 

[CaptainMorgans]

Have to disagree, I think the formation gets the most out of the players we have.

We've seen the best of Peck, Riedewald, Seriki, Brooks, McCallum, Tanganga, Mee Bamford, Campbell (even Cannon) etc. playing this way.
They all have their partners to play off, players look closer together / more comfortable in possession. We've mostly looked quite compact and definitely more creative.

I just think we might be expecting too much from the team. I allowed myself to get a bit carried away after the Stoke result but maybe the reality is setting in.

Perhaps all we are is a midtable team, an awkward opponent due to our capability to "show up" on any given day but way too inconsistent to string together the type of run we'd need for top 6.
To be honest, I think way too many things would have to go in our favour in terms of squad form, fitness and the JTW for us to consider it seriously... and we've still not really made ourselves safe.

 

[NordicHarry]

Have to disagree, I think the formation gets the most out of the players we have.

We've seen the best of Peck, Riedewald, Seriki, Brooks, McCallum, Tanganga, Mee Bamford, Campbell (even Cannon) etc. playing this way.
They all have their partners to play off, players look closer together / more comfortable in possession. We've mostly looked quite compact and definitely more creative.

I just think we might be expecting too much from the team. I allowed myself to get a bit carried away after the Stoke result but maybe the reality is setting in.

Perhaps all we are is a midtable team, an awkward opponent due to our capability to "show up" on any given day but way too inconsistent to string together the type of run we'd need for top 6.
To be honest, I think way too many things would have to go in our favour in terms of squad form, fitness and the JTW for us to consider it seriously... and we've still not really made ourselves safe.

No arguments with what you've just said but I do still feel we could get more out of them by playing O'Hare behind a 2 and a bit more stability in the middle with 3.

100% agree with the whole of that last paragraph though.

 

[FriethBlade]

One of the problems with 442 is trying to shoehorn our 2 best players (Hamer and Ohare) into that formation. It doesn't suit either of them as neither are proper CMs or proper wide players and if you play 2 up top you cant accommodate a number 10 as well.

This is something Wilder needs to sort out and I'm beginning to agree with others who think we shd sell Hamer for a decent fee and reinvest in a player who suits the formation.

 

[DeanLearner'sCat]

Nobody was complaining about the formation a week ago.

 

[NordicHarry]

One of the problems with 442 is trying to shoehorn our 2 best players (Hamer and Ohare) into that formation. It doesn't suit either of them as neither are proper CMs or proper wide players and if you play 2 up top you cant accommodate a number 10 as well.

This is something Wilder needs to sort out and I'm beginning to agree with others who think we shd sell Hamer for a decent fee and reinvest in a player who suits the formation.

You can't play a number 10 with 2 strikers? Not heard of that one before

 

[FriethBlade]

You can't play a number 10 with 2 strikers? Not heard of that one before

We cant as we either get over run in midfield or it leaves our full backs exposed with only 3 in midfield

 

[NordicHarry]

We cant as we either get over run in midfield or it leaves our full backs exposed with only 3 in midfield

Surely at the minute with the 2 in middle we'd get more overrun than if it was 3, and I'd personally say we're playing 4222 with the 2 behind the strikers more of an inside winger/number 10 anyways? If anything 1 behind the 2 would create a bit more stability?

 

[finlaytheblade]

One of the problems with 442 is trying to shoehorn our 2 best players (Hamer and Ohare) into that formation. It doesn't suit either of them as neither are proper CMs or proper wide players and if you play 2 up top you cant accommodate a number 10 as well.

This is something Wilder needs to sort out and I'm beginning to agree with others who think we shd sell Hamer for a decent fee and reinvest in a player who suits the formation.

Yes agreed ! Hamer is a luxury we cant afford his head is in another place this season ! Maybe his personal circumstances are having a baring on this.His diabolical flick to nobody caught us out and the 2nd goal stems fromThis! I Do feel the ref gave the benefit of doubt regarding the trip on Mcguinness to Grant most refs would have given a foul ! Anyway as Wilder said we got what we deserved for a passionless 2nd half..
Surprised Burrows got the nod infront of Mccallam Burrows just not at the racers this season,Mc must have been feeling the effects of the bug ! If not ! CW got that totally wrong.
Anyone else feel that tanganga is unhappy his body language tells me he wishes he was still at Millwall ! A team that puts it all in 100% every match which we fail to do ?
All to play for and yet! we fall flat on our arse .

 

[KMC-1889]

4-2-2-2 we’ve been playing works really well when we come up against teams that play a version of 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1, however teams like Norwich that play with 3 in the middle quickly overload the midfield and make it look like we’re a man down.

It also relies massively on the quality of that midfield 2 to progress the ball. If they aren’t in the game the only option we have is to go long down the wings, which is easier to defend against when our wingers only option is ‘cut inside’. On of the reasons Seriki and Brooks have looked so good recently is they’ve both decided to go outside to the line and start crossing the ball in.

As usual we’ve got a manager that cannot influence a game once the whistle has gone. No plan b or c which means if the other teams figure us out we have a wretched 90 mins.

 

[blades_95]

The squad is so unbalanced it’s untrue. We don’t have a striker who plays to their best as a lone striker (albeit we’ve struggled for two years to make consistent chances for a lone striker). So we need to play two up top to get the best out of them & make the ball stick more up front.

But then playing 4 in midfield doesn’t play to the strengths of two of our best players (Hamer & O’Hare). O’Hare’s best performances are central off the strikers picking up loose bits - he’s not quick or strong enough 1 v 1 against a full back when he’s wider. Hamer needs more protection for a free role than he gets in a 4.

We also don’t have any good true wingers, so can’t play with proper wingers.

It’s a conundrum & at the minute the 4222 is the most effective system for the group as whole I’d say to get results. But we really need to be forward planning for what we want the formation / style to be next season & start recruiting to that. The chances of Hamer / Bamford / Ings / Mee / Jairo being here are slim so we need to think ahead.

 

[JackSUFC]

The squad is so unbalanced it’s untrue. We don’t have a striker who plays to their best as a lone striker (albeit we’ve struggled for two years to make consistent chances for a lone striker). So we need to play two up top to get the best out of them & make the ball stick more up front.

But then playing 4 in midfield doesn’t play to the strengths of two of our best players (Hamer & O’Hare). O’Hare’s best performances are central off the strikers picking up loose bits - he’s not quick or strong enough 1 v 1 against a full back when he’s wider. Hamer needs more protection for a free role than he gets in a 4.

We also don’t have any good true wingers, so can’t play with proper wingers.

It’s a conundrum & at the minute the 4222 is the most effective system for the group as whole I’d say to get results. But we really need to be forward planning for what we want the formation / style to be next season & start recruiting to that. The chances of Hamer / Bamford / Ings / Mee / Jairo being here are slim so we need to think ahead.

Spot on.

Two up top with O’Hare buzzing around them causes teams problems when we sit in, then go direct and quick on the counter.

When West Brom let us have the ball first half yesterday, the system looked flawed.

There’s no natural wingers in the squad, so Hamer and Brooks naturally drift inside. That leaves the full-backs isolated in possession (and defensively). The amount of times Burrows received the ball but had to come back inside was a joke. Bamford wanted to drop deep but couldn’t get in the game as that area was congested. The centre backs aren’t good enough for a possession based team either. Bindon might be though.

At the moment our best fit for this squad looks to be playing direct and on the counter.

 

[NordicHarry]

Spot on.

Two up top with O’Hare buzzing around them causes teams problems when we sit in, then go direct and quick on the counter.

When West Brom let us have the ball first half yesterday, the system looked flawed.

There’s no natural wingers in the squad, so Hamer and Brooks naturally drift inside. That leaves the full-backs isolated in possession (and defensively). The amount of times Burrows received the ball but had to come back inside was a joke. Bamford wanted to drop deep but couldn’t get in the game as that area was congested. The centre backs aren’t good enough for a possession based team either. Bindon might be though.

At the moment our best fit for this squad looks to be playing direct and on the counter.

Exactly what I'm trying to say.

4312 would be my decision until we actually get a team.

Not wilders fault that the recruitment was absolute dross but his past record int great either. Just looks like there's no future plan no matter what they say about Jan.

 

[Sharrow Snuff Mill]

If Mee, McCallum, O'hare, Arblaster and Peck were back in the team, and we played a 4-3-1-2 formation with O'hare as a 10, and Riedewald joining Arblaster and Peck in midfield, then I think we avoid performances and results as v.Norwich and WBA.

Having said that, I daresay that a few might have had to play in the last two games when not feeling 100% okay.

 

[Sizablade]

Interesting discussion this one. I think every player who has ever played the game at any level would have played 442 so therfore it would seem logical to switch to this when you're struggling for form and results.

It relies on simple percentage football, dont mess about with it at the back, turn opposition defences, be strong on set pieces, play in opponents 3rd and most importantly win 2nd balls. The final point there is what we did very well against Leicester 1st half and Stoke and a bit 1st half yesterday. Trouble is when you dont work hard and get players around the forwards and pick up the 2nd ball it can look really basic and clumsy, like 2nd half at Leicester and yesterday.

In terms of team selection it has to be round pags in round holes or we fall into the England 00's issue of shoehorning Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard into a midfield and it didn't work. Sometimes your best players don't work in the system and that's where the coach and manager earn their money!

Anyway, when we do 442 right with energy
and intelligence it works great. Lest hope we can get a few more fit and crack in up the
league. Utb

 

[3Cheers4Ramirez]

4-2-2-2 with the wingers tucked in makes sense if Seriki and McCallum are the full backs

It's also the best way to potentially get Hamer and O'Hare in the team together

 

[NordicHarry]

Interesting discussion this one. I think every player who has ever played the game at any level would have played 442 so therfore it would seem logical to switch to this when you're struggling for form and results.

It relies on simple percentage football, dont mess about with it at the back, turn opposition defences, be strong on set pieces, play in opponents 3rd and most importantly win 2nd balls. The final point there is what we did very well against Leicester 1st half and Stoke and a bit 1st half yesterday. Trouble is when you dont work hard and get players around the forwards and pick up the 2nd ball it can look really basic and clumsy, like 2nd half at Leicester and yesterday.

In terms of team selection it has to be round pags in round holes or we fall into the England 00's issue of shoehorning Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard into a midfield and it didn't work. Sometimes your best players don't work in the system and that's where the coach and manager earn their money!

Anyway, when we do 442 right with energy
and intelligence it works great. Lest hope we can get a few more fit and crack in up the
league. Utb

That's the feeling I'm getting though is that it's not really working unless literally everything has to click for it to work, and that Wilder is playing a formation that shoe horns his "best" players in

The last paragraph I agree with but we need that energy and actual wingers with pace or directness about them if Wilder wants to persist with it.

 

[The Vicar]

Sell Hamer, conundrum dissappear.

Fabulous occasionally, ordinary usually, invisible often. Sounds like Mrs V!

 

[Varkanoid]

Anyway, when we do 442 right with energy
and intelligence it works great. Lest hope we can get a few more fit and crack in up the
league. Utb

This. Need to see what happens in January. Fax Machine willing. Although CW already said dont except signings immediately 3 which they want are going to take time it seems.

 

[AWetFlannel]

I want to hear other people's opinions on this but for me this 4222/442 formation doesn't seem to suit the players we've got.

And I know I'm saying this after yesterdays defeat after a decent run (against shit), but I've been saying it for a while.

The right hand side can be ok when Brooks has woken up from his 3 week nap but other than that we have the slowest "wingers" on the planet, O'Hare shouldn't be near the touchline and does way more damage centrally with his through balls etc. Hamer just looks a fat idiot at this rate and the middle 2 are solid in Peck and Reidewald but depth/creativity isn't there especially when there's a gap between them and the 2 strikers which don't really drop into space like a Didzy or Ndiaye.

Personally a 4312 would work for us with Riedewald Peck and Hamer with O'Hare in front, cause I do think we have to play with 2 up top.

Just don't think this formation for me is going to work overall, unless in January there's an influx of wingers.

Also McGuinness is dog shit

I don't like 4-3-1-2 because it lacks width, but it could work. Similarly a 4-1-2-1-2 with a diamond midfield keeps a number 10 behind two strikers, but in this case the single 6 can be overrun.

I think our squad suits a 4-2-3-1 with Hamer on the left and O'Hare in the middle, but I understand why we've gone two up top and assume it'll stay.

Hamer is our best player by miles. I'm as frustrated with him as anyone after his performance last night, but what you said about him is just shite imo.