Mutual Consent and Chris Wilder - A Post From Yesterday

[The Crab]

Does that mean Hammond, Sammon and Woolford are off? Every cloud eh

That'd be brill, a bit like when they won the car on 321. Fuck knows how they got there, but it's great that they did.

 

[PeteBlade]

And if we get more of the same again next year from Adkins ,I really don't see it changing ,how long do we give him ?
The turning point for me is not being hurt by defeat ,its not being particularly bothered and that's the stage I am at.

I'd already got to that point with the bloke who had the famous Dad.

 

[PeteBlade]

Same as what Morgan did , no doubt . Fuck All.

UTB

And he didn't even PLAY ALL THE YOUTH as was promised.

 

[sitwell]

Fuck my life if we get Wilder in.

Why ?

 

[Woodwaaard]

If they appoint wilder they really don't know what they're doing.

If any fan wants rid of Adkins and replaced by Wilder, they are equally culpable for our inevitable failure next season.

I don't WANT Adkins to be replaced by Wilder

If the board DO replace Adkins with Wilder, why on earth do you think he/we will inevitably fail?
We MIGHT fail, however, there is no inevitabilty to it at all

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

If they appoint wilder they really don't know what they're doing.

If any fan wants rid of Adkins and replaced by Wilder, they are equally culpable for our inevitable failure next season.

Realise you're upset about Adkins possibly (probably?) going, but that's a pretty bizarre statement to make.

Amazes me how much leeway Adkins is given by so many btw. Whatever the circumstances in which he's had to manage, he's turned this club into a mediocre mid-table Division Three club this season - something that neither Wilson nor Clough can ever be accused of.

 

[HermitageBlade]

I hope the rumours are true, I don't like the idea of sacking managers in principal but there has not been one positive from this season in my opinion. As far as being culpable next season I think those that hounded out Clough and Wilson are the ones to point the finger at. Those are the managers that we should have backed as they at least showed some progress, in particular Clough who in my opinion started from the weakest position any manager has ie Weir and in 19 months took us to two semis and the play offs.

 

[sitwell]

Agreed ,not many managers get the chance to get a full pre season with a club who got in the play offs and add to it probably the best player in the division certainly the best centre forward which was lacking from the team he inherited. To then make the team worse ,turn the fans against it in 6 months and lay no foundations for the future with shocking recruitment is some achievement. Unbelievably we are still getting worse ,one win against Walsall cannot mask that ,we are absolutely rubbish and have been in every game apart from 2 that he has managed us in.
It seems the only thing people hold against Chris Wilder is the fact that he is a Utd fan. Why hold that against him ,I just don't understand why is that a negative ?

 

[Rodders]

I hope the rumours are true, I don't like the idea of sacking managers in principal but there has not been one positive from this season in my opinion. As far as being culpable next season I think those that hounded out Clough and Wilson are the ones to point the finger at. Those are the managers that we should have backed as they at least showed some progress, in particular Clough who in my opinion started from the weakest position any manager has ie Weir and in 19 months took us to two semis and the play offs.

There was hardly any hounding of Clough at all; he just fell out with McCabe and/or Princey. I also don't really recall anything major against Wilson. There was certainly discontent after the Crawley game, but McCabe rolled the dice seeing that the Pigs got promoted after sacking Megson and hoped it worked. I don't recall any fan pressure on either of the sackings.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Agreed ,not many managers get the chance to get a full pre season with a club who got in the play offs and add to it probably the best player in the division certainly the best centre forward which was lacking from the team he inherited. To then make the team worse ,turn the fans against it in 6 months and lay no foundations for the future with shocking recruitment is some achievement. Unbelievably we are still getting worse ,one win against Walsall cannot mask that ,we are absolutely rubbish and have been in every game apart from 2 that he has managed us in.
It seems the only thing people hold against Chris Wilder is the fact that he is a Utd fan. Why hold that against him ,I just don't understand why is that a negative ?

Only one reason IMO and it's called football snobbery . Wonder if that's the thing whats holding us back .

Adkins has been a disaster and all the positive vibes in his interviews , just has a massive adverse effect on his credibility. Bad is bad never mind how you try and put a good spin on it .

At this moment in time would I prefer the Reading or Northampton syndrome , I would go for Northampton . At least Wilder would be coming in as a winner , a real up to date winner .

UTB

 

[Bladeloyal]

At least Chris has won more than Brian the blade in the Meadowhall league that would shut owd Bruno up

 

[HermitageBlade]

There was hardly any hounding of Clough at all; he just fell out with McCabe and/or Princey. I also don't really recall anything major against Wilson. There was certainly discontent after the Crawley game, but McCabe rolled the dice seeing that the Pigs got promoted after sacking Megson and hoped it worked. I don't recall any fan pressure on either of the sackings.

I think there was a lot via social media as opposed to in the ground with regards to Clough. Some were just waiting for Wilson to fail and again the board buckled.

I honestly think some of the pro Adkin voices are from those that wanted Clough out and as such to admit Adkins is a failure is to admit they got it wrong. I think that's why Clough still gets a lot of blame for this season with us and yet in the same breath they give him no credit for keeping Burton up there.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Only one reason IMO and it's called football snobbery . Wonder if that's the thing whats holding us back .

Adkins has been a disaster and all the positive vibes in his interviews , just has a massive adverse effect on his credibility. Bad is bad never mind how you try and put a good spin on it .

At this moment in time would I prefer the Reading or Northampton syndrome , I would go for Northampton . At least Wilder would be coming in as a winner , a real up to date winner .

UTB

There's some truth in the football snobbery, but also legitimate reasons:

He plays a direct style, how will that coalesce with the way were developing - our high pressing passing style? Do we want to change style yet again?
Will he get away with playing 451/433 considering the hostility Clough received in his second season?
Also, will this direct style allow our academy players be able progress seamlessly into the first team ?
Will Wilder be able to bring through young players at all bearing in mind he has no real record of it at NT?
Wilder is no spring chicken at 48, and his biggest success will be a promotion at Northampton Town. Will he cope managing a club with the size and expectation of SUFC?
Getting a bit ahead of ourselves: are his skills transferal to the Championship?
Does he know league one and the championship at all?

 

[BushBlade]

Fuck it. Fuck em all. Whoever they appoint I'm going to dedicate my time to pointing out every little flaw, every mistake he makes and when he gets the sack I can say 'told you he was shit'.

 

[Bladeloyal]

There's some truth in the football snobbery, but also legitimate reasons:

He plays a direct style, how will that coalesce with the way were developing - our high pressing passing style? Do we want to change style yet again?
Will he get away with playing 451/433 considering the hostility Clough received in his second season?
Also, will this direct style allow our academy players be able progress seamlessly into the first team ?
Will Wilder be able to bring through young players at all bearing in mind he has no real record of it at NT.
Wilder is no spring chicken at 48, and his biggest success will be a promotion at Northampton Town. Will he cope managing a club with the size and expectation of SUFC.
Getting a bit ahead of ourselves: are his skills transferal to the Championship.

Is this high pressing style you speak of involves coutts never making a tackle and Hammond sat on the 18 yard line and Flynn tackling a paper bag .

 

[nopigfansintown]

Is this high pressing style you speak of involves coutts never making a tackle and Hammond sat on the 18 yard line and Flynn tackling a paper bag .

Obviously a work in progress.

 

[Bladeloyal]

Give me a basset style team over this shite any day of the f ing week .

 

[blader]

I don't WANT Adkins to be replaced by Wilder

If the board DO replace Adkins with Wilder, why on earth do you think he/we will inevitably fail?
We MIGHT fail, however, there is no inevitabilty to it at all

Well if Adkins has failed, why would Wilder succeed? He would have the same squad and a worse CV? So I see no evidence, other than blind hope, that he would be any improvement.

Adkins must be allowed to build his own squad, and then be judged.

Realise you're upset about Adkins possibly (probably?) going, but that's a pretty bizarre statement to make.

Amazes me how much leeway Adkins is given by so many btw. Whatever the circumstances in which he's had to manage, he's turned this club into a mediocre mid-table Division Three club this season - something that neither Wilson nor Clough can ever be accused of.

I'm not upset by the prospect of Adkins being sacked, just more the lack of logic or sensibility in appointing Wilder (or anyone else for that matter).

What's the first thing you look for when you are manager less? A manager with a successful record, ideally in the league you're in, yes?

So wilder has achieved nothing at this level, whereas Adkins has absorbed more than most (does anyone have a better record at this level?)

So Wilder, or anyone else, will be replacing Adkins when we know full well he is less qualified for the job. Where's the sense? I am struggling to find it. It's th nativity of football fans thinking "anyone but this guy" is appropriate logic for sacking a manager.
There is no one out there better than Adkins, and let's face it, who thought this squad was capable of promotion pre-season anyway? In fact, I'll tell you one person to start with - ADKINS! He said himself the squad wasn't good enough, yet hasn't been allowed to improve the squad. Just like the next guy won't. Adkins simply has to be given this opportunity to bring in players that suit his system and get rid of all the players that he (and we) would like to see the back of. It's just nonsense to me.

I'm not saying the next guy won't be successful, however I'm saying we are more likely to succeed with Adkins, based on the criteria of new managers.

 

[sitwell]

I don't know if its just me ,but I hate this style of football we are trying to play ,I hate it at any level ,Spain winning the world cup was bad for football. The fashionable way to play football is to pass it around like a training session and rely on 1 forward to take his chance when one of the few times he gets one. Its boring its turjid ,give me attacking football with players who can run with a ball and take people on ,not players who can pass to each other when no one is tackling them. Give me wingers ,crosses ,challenges ,goals ,saves. Football at every level has become boring since its become the law to have an Iniesta and Javi in their team. Warnock and especially Bassetts style maybe too far the other way but we must get back to a more entertaining style of football.

 

[Bladeloyal]

I don't know if its just me ,but I hate this style of football we are trying to play ,I hate it at any level ,Spain winning the world cup was bad for football. The fashionable way to play football is to pass it around like a training session and rely on 1 forward to take his chance when one of the few times he gets one. Its boring its turjid ,give me attacking football with players who can run with a ball and take people on ,not players who can pass to each other when no one is tackling them. Give me wingers ,crosses ,challenges ,goals ,saves. Football at every level has become boring since its become the law to have an Iniesta and Javi in their team. Warnock and especially Bassetts style maybe too far the other way but we must get back to a more entertaining style of football.

To be fair I enjoy watching a Sunday game at Warminster where you get tackles hard work the odd fight and some cracking football ,and some shit as well .template football and flip chart football arggggh

 

[sitwell]

To be fair I enjoy watching a Sunday game at Warminster where you get tackles hard work the odd fight and some cracking football ,and some shit as well .template football and flip chart football arggggh

I watched part of an under 16s schools game here in the States last night and it was awful ,both sides just trying to pass, it was 1-1 ,2 penalties. Wish I could have changed how one of the sides were playing ,I'm sure they would have walked it ,but they were too scared to run with the ball and take people on ,and express themselves. The standard of players was very very good though.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

Well if Adkins has failed, why would Wilder succeed? He would have the same squad and a worse CV? So I see no evidence, other than blind hope, that he would be any improvement.

Adkins must be allowed to build his own squad, and then be judged.



I'm not upset by the prospect of Adkins being sacked, just more the lack of logic or sensibility in appointing Wilder (or anyone else for that matter).

What's the first thing you look for when you are manager less? A manager with a successful record, ideally in the league you're in, yes?

So wilder has achieved nothing at this level, whereas Adkins has absorbed more than most (does anyone have a better record at this level?)

So Wilder, or anyone else, will be replacing Adkins when we know full well he is less qualified for the job. Where's the sense? I am struggling to find it. It's th nativity of football fans thinking "anyone but this guy" is appropriate logic for sacking a manager.
There is no one out there better than Adkins, and let's face it, who thought this squad was capable of promotion pre-season anyway? In fact, I'll tell you one person to start with - ADKINS! He said himself the squad wasn't good enough, yet hasn't been allowed to improve the squad. Just like the next guy won't. Adkins simply has to be given this opportunity to bring in players that suit his system and get rid of all the players that he (and we) would like to see the back of. It's just nonsense to me.

I'm not saying the next guy won't be successful, however I'm saying we are more likely to succeed with Adkins, based on the criteria of new managers.

I just don't get this "Adkins must be allowed to build his own squad and then be judged". It's akin to saying that if you give a manager a longer period in charge, he'll inevitably succeed. When, of course, by giving him longer he might dig an even bigger hole than the one he's dug already in establishing us as a mid-table Division Three club - something that only David Weir, of his predecessors, seemed capable of. None of us know - what it's all about though is whether Adkins is worth the risk after the dog's breakfast of a season we've had to endure? - is he a busted flush?

"Trusting" Adkins to succeed is just wilfully ignoring the evidence of what Adkins has actually done while he's been here, in favour of his past record (a selective reading of it, as it never seems to include his Reading failure). Adkins has brought in 6 players, all around 30 years of age (&, bar Billy Sharp & maybe Baptiste, all of them meh or worse), he's turned Fortress Bramall Lane into a morgue, he's failed to sort out our defensive woes, he's taken eons to go about resolving the "bloated squad" issue, & while talking a good game about "pathways for youth" he leaves actual youths lingering on the edges of the squad & bombs them out of the first team at the earliest opportunity whenever he can slot one of his ageing favourites in.

Tbh, I'm not interested in Adkins' past record previous to the past year. Neither Gary Caldwell nor Neil Harris had any previous record, yet one is on course to win the league and the other to deliver a solid play-off spot for his side.

You say Adkins "hasn't been able to improve the squad. Just like the next guy won't". But is Adkins realistically going to "improve the squad" for next season? - Will he have the money to do so? (if the next guy won't, then why will Adkins?) Has he shown any evidence while he's been here that he'll recruit wisely (on a smallish budget)? Will he have the bollocks to deal with the aspect of the "bloated squad" that involves unwanted players still under contract? Can he manage a difficult situation by being tough enough, rather than using his positivity to ride the crest of a wave?

 

[grafikhaus]

It seems the only thing people hold against Chris Wilder is the fact that he is a Utd fan. Why hold that against him ,I just don't understand why is that a negative ?

I don't think it's anything to do with being a Unitedite, sitters. Warnock is a Unitedite - and a bloody good manager at what he does. Micky Adams is a Unitedite and won't be a good manager while ever he's got a hole in his arse.

I'm sure nobody is bothered about whether we next employ Megson, that fat clown Evans, anybody as long as he's capable of reversing the downward trajectory we've been on for too long, harnessing the power of our fanbase and stadium and acknowledging that our overlong stay at the third level is a fucking disgrace. This will only start when a prospective manager has the balls to tell McCabe exactly what he's expecting in terms of funding, not having the best players sold from under him and short- to medium-terms ambitions.

It's becoming obvious that NA did no such thing, as he was just pleased to land a big job after too long in the wilderness. Foolish man. This is how it always ends.

We, the fans, deserve far, far better than this.

 

[PokerBlade]

Why ?

Because Wilder is yet to do anything in his managerial career to make me think he's good enough.

 

[sitwell]

Because Wilder is yet to do anything in his managerial career to make me think he's good enough.

Not this season ?

 

[blader]

I just don't get this "Adkins must be allowed to build his own squad and then be judged". It's akin to saying that if you give a manager a longer period in charge, he'll inevitably succeed. When, of course, by giving him longer he might dig an even bigger hole than the one he's dug already in establishing us as a mid-table Division Three club - something that only David Weir, of his predecessors, seemed capable of. None of us know - what it's all about though is whether Adkins is worth the risk after the dog's breakfast of a season we've had to endure? - is he a busted flush?

"Trusting" Adkins to succeed is just wilfully ignoring the evidence of what Adkins has actually done while he's been here, in favour of his past record (a selective reading of it, as it never seems to include his Reading failure). Adkins has brought in 6 players, all around 30 years of age (&, bar Billy Sharp & maybe Baptiste, all of them meh or worse), he's turned Fortress Bramall Lane into a morgue, he's failed to sort out our defensive woes, he's taken eons to go about resolving the "bloated squad" issue, & while talking a good game about "pathways for youth" he leaves actual youths lingering on the edges of the squad & bombs them out of the first team at the earliest opportunity whenever he can slot one of his ageing favourites in.

Tbh, I'm not interested in Adkins' past record previous to the past year. Neither Gary Caldwell nor Neil Harris had any previous record, yet one is on course to win the league and the other to deliver a solid play-off spot for his side.

You say Adkins "hasn't been able to improve the squad. Just like the next guy won't". But is Adkins realistically going to "improve the squad" for next season? - Will he have the money to do so? (if the next guy won't, then why will Adkins?) Has he shown any evidence while he's been here that he'll recruit wisely (on a smallish budget)? Will he have the bollocks to deal with the aspect of the "bloated squad" that involves unwanted players still under contract? Can he manage a difficult situation by being tough enough, rather than using his positivity to ride the crest of a wave?

I'll be honest I can't be bothered to reply to everything but I'll try be succinct.

Recruitment - it's not been brilliant, however his net spent is circa -£1,200,000. Who could he recruit for free that would have improved us? There might be loads that I don't know of, but all he could do was sign freebies and they are seldom any good.

Squad performance - well whilst we have overachieved I think it's fair to say we haven't under achieved with this squad. We scraped into playoffs last year (and how many times did Murph single-handedly win us a game last year?). so our squad has gone from finishing just in the playoffs with Murphy, to finishing just outside without Murphy. Makes perfect sense, and I imagine this squad would have gone the same way whoever is in charge.

Do I trust him - well what do we really have to go on other than freebies? What do they tell us, really? All I know is Adkins has had a year to assess the squad and who stags and who goes. Guess what happens when we sack him, new man comes in, takes all summer to assess what we have, meanwhile all targets are being snapped up and our best player gets sold 2 weeks from the start of the season, and round and round we go.

I'm not saying he's done a fantastic job, but I fail to see any certain benefits a new manager would bring. And how you can blame Adkibs for making us Ito an 'established mid table division 3 side' is bemusing considering the constraints of the board and what he inherited.

 

[PeteBlade]

Realise you're upset about Adkins possibly (probably?) going, but that's a pretty bizarre statement to make.

Amazes me how much leeway Adkins is given by so many btw. Whatever the circumstances in which he's had to manage, he's turned this club into a mediocre mid-table Division Three club this season - something that neither Wilson nor Clough can ever be accused of.

We were a mediocre division 3 club under Clough. Just 5 points better off. With a squad completely of his choosing.

 

[HermitageBlade]

Pete you never seem to give him any credit for what he inherited, a lot worse than what Adkins was given.

 

[Bladepicker]

We were a mediocre division 3 club under Clough. Just 5 points better off. With a squad completely of his choosing.

That got to 2 major cup semi finals and stormed up the league beating all before them the season before.

Yes there were negatives but lots of positives. Adkins tenure has not reached anywhere near the heights of Clough's.

 

[EddieColquhoun]

ADKINS! He said himself the squad wasn't good enough, yet hasn't been allowed to improve the squad.

Are you saying the signings of Sammon, Woolford, Edgar and Hammond were forced upon him?